Lost girl after sex on 1st date. Buyer's Remorse, Auto Rejection, or Something Else?

[MECHRuins]

We've been talking on the phone and texting for months (I know, bad move), but never had a chance to meet up since we're a few hours away from each other. She did invite me about 4 times before, but were usually short notice so I couldn't commit to it due to distance. The connection was there.

Before our first date, I noticed her becoming less chatty with me a few weeks prior, so I texted her mentioning to her how affected I was with her disappearance. She called me after, saying she was touched by it (and she was really genuine when she said it) and invited me to meet that Saturday.

Had our first date. Light dinner, glass of wine, then moved to another venue to chat outside after that place closed. Talked until 1AM, when that venue was also closing. As convo ended, we looked at each other for a few seconds, and I said to myself outloud, "I want to kiss you... I'm going to do it", and made a move to her. She met me halfway. It was beautiful.

Walked to our cars after and I asked if she wanted to make out some more in the car. She told me that she might be tempted to go to the hotel with me if we did that. That was the invitation. I asked her, and after a little bit of mandatory LMR, she agreed to go back.

We had sex at the hotel. She asked for a condom and I was happy to oblige. Long, slow lovemaking. Made her O lots of times. We went to sleep then I wake up later with her grinding on me, so was only happy to oblige. She eventually grabbed it and stuck it in, no condom. The second session was rougher, although not too crazy (no slapping, no hair pulling), just harder, more primal. Also plenty of O's here; but it was less synchronized and "breathing together" than the first one.

Here's my dilemma:

At 6:30AM she left the hotel flustered. And eventually texted me a few days later that she felt sad and ashamed about having sex without condoms. That she "self abandoned" and let her emotions get the best of her. That she freaked out when that happens. Text read like a goodbye, talking about how great a guy I was, and to "take care", and implying that we'd never see each other again when she said to just give the item she left on the hotel to someone else. Saying she needs to work on herself before a relationship ("not strong enough yet").

In my response I took my share of the responsibility for not insisting on a condom, disqualified myself as wanting a relationship, wanted to stay friends with her due to our connection (which is true, happy if we never have sex again).

Can someone give me advice on if this is salvagable?

I'm not sure if she has buyer's remorse for the hook up, feels slutty for what she did, is unattracted to me, or what.

Bit more context about her:
- former mormon but left (even though she's against that now, she still has guilt and conditioning to get through)
- she's had other ONS before
- low body count (I was her sixth)

 

[MECHRuins]

Additional context I'm not putting a lot of weight to because we were in the heat of the moment while having sex:
- She said, "If we're going to be doing this without condoms, you can't be having sex with other girls"
- I said, "When you told me that you hooked up with that one guy, I got really jealous"
- I didn't cuddle her enough (barely, actually); and the post-sex talk wasn't enough I think to really give her comfort since we've both been up for close to 24 hours by that point.

 

[alexlaguma]

Fuck knows. Interested to hear others thoughts. That type of shit has happened to me a few times over the years. Girls are funny man lol.

Don't sweat it too much. She'll probably pop up again at some point if you gave her as many orgasms as you said.

 

[MECHRuins]

Fuck knows. Interested to hear others thoughts. That type of shit has happened to me a few times over the years. Girls are funny man lol.

Don't sweat it too much. She'll probably pop up again at some point if you gave her as many orgasms as you said.

Have a few of those come back to you months down the line?

 

[alexlaguma]

Have a few of those come back to you months down the line?

No because I never give them orgasms.

Lol in all seriousness, yeh as a general rule of thumb, if you give a girl great sex you will hear from her again at some point.

 

[MECHRuins]

Got it. So in your eyes, this situation doesn't sound as bad as it did in my head when she dropped the bombshell on me.

I'll just move on with my life then and wait for her to come knocking around.

 

[Will_V]

We've been talking on the phone and texting for months (I know, bad move), but never had a chance to meet up since we're a few hours away from each other. She did invite me about 4 times before, but were usually short notice so I couldn't commit to it due to distance. The connection was there.

When you text and think about eachother for months, it feels like a relationship even if it's not. So already she's building up an emotional dependency on you (and you on her).

Before our first date, I noticed her becoming less chatty with me a few weeks prior, so I texted her mentioning to her how affected I was with her disappearance. She called me after, saying she was touched by it (and she was really genuine when she said it) and invited me to meet that Saturday.

This is basically an expression of emotional dependency from both of you, further building up the sense of a relationship.

Had our first date. Light dinner, glass of wine, then moved to another venue to chat outside after that place closed. Talked until 1AM, when that venue was also closing. As convo ended, we looked at each other for a few seconds, and I said to myself outloud, "I want to kiss you... I'm going to do it", and made a move to her. She met me halfway. It was beautiful.

Sounds pretty romantic, and that's great except that it again builds up the emotional side of the relationship.

You've only kissed at this point but you've already:

- Texted for months
- Declared how much you need eachother
- Had a romantic dinner with deep conversation

Know what that feels like? A relationship.

Walked to our cars after and I asked if she wanted to make out some more in the car. She told me that she might be tempted to go to the hotel with me if we did that. That was the invitation. I asked her, and after a little bit of mandatory LMR, she agreed to go back.

We had sex at the hotel. She asked for a condom and I was happy to oblige. Long, slow lovemaking. Made her O lots of times. We went to sleep then I wake up later with her grinding on me, so was only happy to oblige. She eventually grabbed it and stuck it in, no condom. The second session was rougher, although not too crazy (no slapping, no hair pulling), just harder, more primal. Also plenty of O's here; but it was less synchronized and "breathing together" than the first one.

So here's where the frame switched 180 degrees. Until now it was pure connection/romance with no sex or sex talk (?), and all the emotions suddenly get released with sex and orgasms. Feels good, except she knows that a primal fuck on the first date isn't really what the tv shows say ends up with happy ever after. She knows (or thinks) that she's unlikely to see you again or at least maintain the level of commitment she had from you.

Here's my dilemma:

At 6:30AM she left the hotel flustered. And eventually texted me a few days later that she felt sad and ashamed about having sex without condoms. That she "self abandoned" and let her emotions get the best of her. That she freaked out when that happens. Text read like a goodbye, talking about how great a guy I was, and to "take care", and implying that we'd never see each other again when she said to just give the item she left on the hotel to someone else. Saying she needs to work on herself before a relationship ("not strong enough yet").

In my response I took my share of the responsibility for not insisting on a condom, disqualified myself as wanting a relationship, wanted to stay friends with her due to our connection (which is true, happy if we never have sex again).

This was a mistake, and it's a pretty common one to make. You're in a catch 22 here, where either saying that you want or don't want a relationship is going to lose the game.

The solution is to tell her:

- You enjoyed the time you spent together and she's a great girl
- You want to meet up and talk about it

That's it.

Then when you meet her, show her you care about her without going overboard (or mentioning relationships). This is a tricky one to navigate since you steered her one way and then the other way hard (at least in her mind) so you gotta stay chill and not overdo anything.

Sounds like she's a bit emotionally unstable tbh.

To summarize:

1. You let the frame veer way too much toward a relationship in the beginning.
2. The sex suddenly released all the built up emotions, while putting the future of the 'relationship' under threat.
3. She was confused and decided she had to bail to protect herself (or wanted you to chase her).
4. You thought she needed to hear that you don't want a relationship, which isn't the right answer, because she's still reeling from the emotions.
5. You'll want to meet up with her, show you care, but not commit to anything at all - she still has to earn that relationship from you, if you want to offer it.

 

[MECHRuins]

When you text and think about eachother for months, it feels like a relationship even if it's not. So already she's building up an emotional dependency on you (and you on her).

Felt that way too. But then she would always say something along the lines of, "I can only really give love in a proper relationship once I've learned to love myself", when we spoke about future relationships (not specifically us two). I just assumed she was more pragmatic about it and couldn't be attracted to anyone she hasn't met yet.

This is basically an expression of emotional dependency from both of you, further building up the sense of a relationship.

Interesting perspective. And makes me wonder if she could have done it to lure me in. We've always been candid with each other and have a full honesty policy. Maybe she sensed me distancing myself a bit when she told me she had a little fling a month ago. Sent me about four memes on IG without me responding, and then we didn't speak for a week. That's when I sent the text. I don't think I'll ever know.

But you really gave me a new way of looking at things.

Sounds pretty romantic, and that's great except that it again builds up the emotional side of the relationship.

You've only kissed at this point but you've already:

- Texted for months
- Declared how much you need eachother
- Had a romantic dinner with deep conversation

Know what that feels like? A relationship.

True. Didn't really declare how much we need each other, but have been very vulnerable with each other. But yeah, that doesn't change the point you're making!

So here's where the frame switched 180 degrees. Until now it was pure connection/romance with no sex or sex talk (?), and all the emotions suddenly get released with sex and orgasms. Feels good, except she knows that a primal fuck on the first date isn't really what the tv shows say ends up with happy ever after. She knows (or thinks) that she's unlikely to see you again or at least maintain the level of commitment she had from you.

Fuck. How did I get blindsided by this?! I considered a ton of different alternatives: she regretted fucking me (found me unattractive), there's another guy suddenly looming in the background she hasn't been honest with me about, she felt like a huge slut after the sex.

Your thesis makes a lot more sense than all the others given the complete context. The puzzle mostly fits, except with her disappearing for a couple of weeks before... I started to feel her pulling away, and then a sudden return for a date when I showed vulnerability? And now another huge (seemingly permanent) pull away.

This was a mistake, and it's a pretty common one to make. You're in a catch 22 here, where either saying that you want or don't want a relationship is going to lose the game.

The solution is to tell her:

- You enjoyed the time you spent together and she's a great girl
- You want to meet up and talk about it

That's it.

Then when you meet her, show her you care about her without going overboard (or mentioning relationships). This is a tricky one to navigate since you steered her one way and then the other way hard (at least in her mind) so you gotta stay chill and not overdo anything.

Sounds like she's a bit emotionally unstable tbh.

To summarize:

1. You let the frame veer way too much toward a relationship in the beginning.
2. The sex suddenly released all the built up emotions, while putting the future of the 'relationship' under threat.
3. She was confused and decided she had to bail to protect herself (or wanted you to chase her).
4. You thought she needed to hear that you don't want a relationship, which isn't the right answer, because she's still reeling from the emotions.
5. You'll want to meet up with her, show you care, but not commit to anything at all - she still has to earn that relationship from you, if you want to offer it.

We've been no contact for about a week now. I was going to wait three weeks to a month before reaching out since the ball is in her court (I offered the friendship deal). Should I be reaching out sooner? Or is this one of the rare instances where giving space after a gal pulls away is not the right prescription?

I never considered it seriously that she wanted a relationship with me. But I guess based on the details provided, she does.

I was too close to the dynamic to have the insights you do, @Will_V! This was really eye opening. So much still I need to learn about social dynamics.

 

[Will_V]

Felt that way too. But then she would always say something along the lines of, "I can only really give love in a proper relationship once I've learned to love myself", when we spoke about future relationships (not specifically us two). I just assumed she was more pragmatic about it and couldn't be attracted to anyone she hasn't met yet.

No this is typical female emotional defensiveness couched as self-insight/pragmatism.

Interesting perspective. And makes me wonder if she could have done it to lure me in.

Yeah looks like she's in the habit (conscious or unconscious) of using takeaways as a form of control, this is typical for cluster B women. They often present as confident, pragmatic women while underneath she's a wounded little girl who feels like things are always out of her control.

We've always been candid with each other and have a full honesty policy.

That's an interesting way to put it - you hadn't even kissed and you already had an 'honesty policy'? Sounds like the frame really got out of hand.

Maybe she sensed me distancing myself a bit when she told me she had a little fling a month ago. Sent me about four memes on IG without me responding, and then we didn't speak for a week. That's when I sent the text. I don't think I'll ever know.

Yeah this is clearly a case of you waaay overinvesting and letting her run away with the frame.

At this point there was no relationship, no sex, no nothing. And yet you were getting reactive to her having a fling (and why did she even tell you in the first place)? The dynamic here is busted.

How did you meet this girl in the first place?

But you really gave me a new way of looking at things.


True. Didn't really declare how much we need each other, but have been very vulnerable with each other. But yeah, that doesn't change the point you're making!

Yeah it's not what you say but how you act. If you're texting her for months and emotionally orbiting eachother, then the frame is that you're really invested.

Fuck. How did I get blindsided by this?! I considered a ton of different alternatives: she regretted fucking me (found me unattractive), there's another guy suddenly looming in the background she hasn't been honest with me about, she felt like a huge slut after the sex.

Your thesis makes a lot more sense than all the others given the complete context. The puzzle mostly fits, except with her disappearing for a couple of weeks before... I started to feel her pulling away, and then a sudden return for a date when I showed vulnerability? And now another huge (seemingly permanent) pull away.

It's quite possible she's been seeing other dudes and this was messing with her emotions about you. That's exactly why you don't get invested fast.

Look at it from her point of view: you two weren't a thing, so she's free to do what she wants. Yet you are emotionally invested, and she likes you. That's a perfect setting for her to do something she'll regret - especially when later on you take her on a romantic dinner and then fuck her well and she realizes she should have waited for you and that you probably thought she was.

The frame here is busted - you don't get invested until you've slept with her and established yourself in her pussy and her life.

We've been no contact for about a week now. I was going to wait three weeks to a month before reaching out since the ball is in her court (I offered the friendship deal). Should I be reaching out sooner? Or is this one of the rare instances where giving space after a gal pulls away is not the right prescription?

Hard to say, this is a very tangled up situation. What I do recommend is to try and get her out face to face, and talk things over with her. Don't discuss or text anything on the phone, don't start investing or withdrawing investment, just say something along the lines of "Hey I like you and had a great time, I think there's been a misunderstanding, let's meet and talk".

If she's not willing to meet you, there's no point pursuing things further imo.

And before that, think long and hard about what you are willing to accept and what you aren't from this girl. Right now she's completely controlling the frame and you're orbiting emotionally around her. She's the only one who's shown any kind of standards so far. You've got to flip that.

I never considered it seriously that she wanted a relationship with me. But I guess based on the details provided, she does.

Well, women are followers, and the frame you set up for her to follow suggested that you were looking at things through a relationship lens:

- You texted her for months
- You implied that you expected exclusivity without clarifying it
- Took her on a romantic dinner

Now you fucked her hard, gave her orgasms, maybe made her fall in love, and she's trying to figure out how to reconcile what she thought was going on with her current reality.

 

[MECHRuins]

Yeah looks like she's in the habit (conscious or unconscious) of using takeaways as a form of control, this is typical for cluster B women. They often present as confident, pragmatic women while underneath she's a wounded little girl who feels like things are always out of her control.

This makes sense. While she's not cluster B, she did say she has codependent and anxious attachment tendencies.

That's an interesting way to put it - you hadn't even kissed and you already had an 'honesty policy'? Sounds like the frame really got out of hand.

We've just been chatting so long that back then, when we first started chatting, she was brutally honest about her ex coming back into the picture. And she was so transparent and sweet about it that I appreciated it. I would also tell her about a girl situation I had a few months later.

The conversations were based on the premise of the spiritual journey, so I guess for both of us, that became the foundation of the dynamic. More of a friendship we could sound board with, while knowing there's still a potential for something romantic there.

Yeah this is clearly a case of you waaay overinvesting and letting her run away with the frame.

At this point there was no relationship, no sex, no nothing. And yet you were getting reactive to her having a fling (and why did she even tell you in the first place)? The dynamic here is busted.

How did you meet this girl in the first place?

Online dating. Yeah, I guess it wasn't much of a reaction. She also started to be scarce around that time, so I doubt she really noticed. I just didn't want to be breadcrumbed via IG memes and no actual conversations.

It's quite possible she's been seeing other dudes and this was messing with her emotions about you. That's exactly why you don't get invested fast.

True. If she was any other girl that I couldn't relate to on topics of spirituality, I wouldn't have. Guess I found a new type of woman to game!

Look at it from her point of view: you two weren't a thing, so she's free to do what she wants. Yet you are emotionally invested, and she likes you. That's a perfect setting for her to do something she'll regret - especially when later on you take her on a romantic dinner and then fuck her well and she realizes she should have waited for you and that you probably thought she was.

The frame here is busted - you don't get invested until you've slept with her and established yourself in her pussy and her life.

Realize she should have waited for me? In what sense? Not hooking up with other guys?
And definitely agreed, I thought I could separate the friendship from the romantic interest, guess not!

Hard to say, this is a very tangled up situation. What I do recommend is to try and get her out face to face, and talk things over with her. Don't discuss or text anything on the phone, don't start investing or withdrawing investment, just say something along the lines of "Hey I like you and had a great time, I think there's been a misunderstanding, let's meet and talk".

If she's not willing to meet you, there's no point pursuing things further imo.

And before that, think long and hard about what you are willing to accept and what you aren't from this girl. Right now she's completely controlling the frame and you're orbiting emotionally around her. She's the only one who's shown any kind of standards so far. You've got to flip that.

Well, women are followers, and the frame you set up for her to follow suggested that you were looking at things through a relationship lens:

- You texted her for months
- You implied that you expected exclusivity without clarifying it
- Took her on a romantic dinner

Now you fucked her hard, gave her orgasms, maybe made her fall in love, and she's trying to figure out how to reconcile what she thought was going on with her current reality.

I like this. I'll re-contextualize given my situation (we're 4 hours away, for example), but the point you're making lands with me. Basically: smoothen things out, nothing heavy, get aligned internally (establish the frame I want this dynamic to be structured in).

I'll give her another week before I reach out. Given how heavy things fell apart, I think that'll be okay. It'd just be 2-3 weeks of not having talked. That shouldn't hurt my chances, no?

 

[MECHRuins]

Heya @Will_V ! She sent me a message late in the morning at 2AM. Can I PM you about it?

 

[FunGuy]

OP I know a lot of people who have been through a similar situation as you so I am way too familiar with this. I will be honest in that EVERY SINGLE person I know who was in this situation can be stubborn and dismissive about the warnings and advice that we gave them so I hope that you read this reply with a very open mind and can sense that it comes from a positive place and not as an attack toward you. I am rooting for you and hope that you get out of this unscratched.

First let me give you a breakdown of what I suspect is happening before I touch on the actionable advice. The main problem is that I suspect that you might have low self esteem and this is inadvertently pushing you to display desperate behaviors. I think its a good idea to work on building your confidence otherwise you will continue in the cycle and end up in toxic situations.

Let me show you some of the behaviors that need to be tweaked because they can come across as desperate:

We've been talking on the phone and texting for months (I know, bad move), but never had a chance to meet up since we're a few hours away from each other. She did invite me about 4 times before, but were usually short notice so I couldn't commit to it due to distance. The connection was there.

Even you realized that its not a good idea to text someone for months before meeting them. Going back to setting strong boundaries I will advice that you should be asking a girl out within MAX like 1-2 days after getting her contact info. If she is funny with her availability or if she flakes then hard next her and approach more women.

Also I can see that she was able to quickly assess that she can get away with a lot of stuff because you have no boundaries. She was getting validated by how you were chasing and she was purposely making herself unavailable to you to use you as a validation puppet. You were chasing her for months and asked her out more than 4 times and still continued pursuing her. She could literally have been waving a large sign saying "I AM NOT INTERESTED" in large font and bold letters and you would still be stubbornly pursuing her. The solution to this is in the previous paragraph so read that a million times a day and follow it at all costs.

Before our first date, I noticed her becoming less chatty with me a few weeks prior, so I texted her mentioning to her how affected I was with her disappearance. She called me after, saying she was touched by it (and she was really genuine when she said it) and invited me to meet that Saturday.

Had our first date. Light dinner, glass of wine, then moved to another venue to chat outside after that place closed. Talked until 1AM, when that venue was also closing. As convo ended, we looked at each other for a few seconds, and I said to myself outloud, "I want to kiss you... I'm going to do it", and made a move to her. She met me halfway. It was beautiful.

Don't ever complain/beg to a girl you never met in person or who isn't your girlfriend about her disappearing. She doesn't owe you anything and this is desperate people behavior.

Btw the way you kiss her was not very smooth. In the future you should avoid asking for permission to kiss. You should be able to feel it based on her body language and flirtatiousness. Read 12 Tips For First Kiss

Walked to our cars after and I asked if she wanted to make out some more in the car. She told me that she might be tempted to go to the hotel with me if we did that. That was the invitation. I asked her, and after a little bit of mandatory LMR, she agreed to go back.

She isn't really into you bro shes just cluster B. I know it doesn't sound possible that a woman who isn't into you would have sex with you but she probably has one of those personality disorders that causes her to partake in impulsive sex as a way to cope when she is in a down emotional swing. My guess is the her main dude was playing hot/cold with her which triggered that extreme emotional down swing and she was using you as a means to feel validated. Don't put too much energy trying to understand her behavior because its just erratic cluster B stuff.

We had sex at the hotel. She asked for a condom and I was happy to oblige. Long, slow lovemaking. Made her O lots of times. We went to sleep then I wake up later with her grinding on me, so was only happy to oblige. She eventually grabbed it and stuck it in, no condom. The second session was rougher, although not too crazy (no slapping, no hair pulling), just harder, more primal. Also plenty of O's here; but it was less synchronized and "breathing together" than the first one.

I sense low sexual self esteem from you here. Guys who aren't insecure about their sexual capabilities don't go around micro analyzing their bedroom performance or bragging about it. If you find yourself too worried about how you performed then that is a sign you might have some sexual insecurity. I could be wrong but I have a gut feeling that after you had sex with her you asked her how was the performance and she told you that answer about having all these orgasm or whatever to feed your ego and keep you around as a validation puppet. Don't ever ask a girl if you satisfied her.

Here's my dilemma:

At 6:30AM she left the hotel flustered. And eventually texted me a few days later that she felt sad and ashamed about having sex without condoms. That she "self abandoned" and let her emotions get the best of her. That she freaked out when that happens. Text read like a goodbye, talking about how great a guy I was, and to "take care", and implying that we'd never see each other again when she said to just give the item she left on the hotel to someone else. Saying she needs to work on herself before a relationship ("not strong enough yet").

In my response I took my share of the responsibility for not insisting on a condom, disqualified myself as wanting a relationship, wanted to stay friends with her due to our connection (which is true, happy if we never have sex again).

Can someone give me advice on if this is salvagable?

I'm not sure if she has buyer's remorse for the hook up, feels slutty for what she did, is unattracted to me, or what.

At this point her respect for you is so low that shes just feeding you BS and your eating it all up. Once she found out that you have low self esteem and have no boundaries then it was easy for her to find ways to feed your ego and emotionally manipulate you. Its only going to get worse from here as you are practically her slave at this point.

Bit more context about her:
- former mormon but left (even though she's against that now, she still has guilt and conditioning to get through)
- she's had other ONS before
- low body count (I was her sixth)

Your behaviors from the jump were signaling sexual naivety and that you probably felt insecure that she might be more sexually experienced than you so she is playing the purity card on you to appease to your ego and manipulate you. I hope you didn't ask her for her body count and all this other stuff. Fyi its a huge red flag if a chick starts mentioning these things unprompted as pure women never do this. If she has to throw out unprompted purity DHV's then its practically guaranteed that its BS.

Where This Is Going:
Let me reiterate what I said in the first part of the post. I know A LOT of people who were in your predicament. Sadly most of them ended up having a child with this person, and the ones who didn't always seemed to end up in a cycle of getting into relationships with someone and recreating the same toxic dynamic. None of these people put the work in to improve their self esteem so unfortunately most of them were not able to get out of the cycle. The few that did break the cycle ended up with life altering consequences like kids and messy divorces so I hope you do not take this post lightly.

What You Should Do Next:
RUN ASAP!!! Delete all traces of this woman. Delete her messages and photos, block and delete her contact info from all of your devices, block and delete her from all social media. If she reaches out to you BLOCK and ignore all contact forever!! Quit while you still can before you make a stupid choice that has life altering repercussions. Its going to sting HARD for a wile but its better to be heartbroken and sad for a while than suffering a lifetime of negative life altering consequences.

Work on building your self esteem and establishing hard boundaries. Go to the gym and work on self development. Do your research and read a lot of books that deal with that subject like boundaries, self-love etc.

 

[MECHRuins]

Also I can see that she was able to quickly assess that she can get away with a lot of stuff because you have no boundaries. She was getting validated by how you were chasing and she was purposely making herself unavailable to you to use you as a validation puppet. You were chasing her for months and asked her out more than 4 times and still continued pursuing her. She could literally have been waving a large sign saying "I AM NOT INTERESTED" in large font and bold letters and you would still be stubbornly pursuing her. The solution to this is in the previous paragraph so read that a million times a day and follow it at all costs.

It was her that asked me out four times. I was always busy or had other plans those times. I have a small bit of regret that I could've probably fucked her way back then while we were just beginning to talk. Probably could've derailed any other guys that might've come into the picture between now and then. But oh well. That's life.

Don't ever complain/beg to a girl you never met in person or who isn't your girlfriend about her disappearing. She doesn't owe you anything and this is desperate people behavior.

Didn't complain or beg, actually. It was more like, I don't know what happened and how we lost contact. Feel like I lost a good friend. Hope you're doing well, and to take care of yourself. Just that. But yes, noted that the optimal way would probably just to go nocontact and forget her.

Btw the way you kiss her was not very smooth. In the future you should avoid asking for permission to kiss. You should be able to feel it based on her body language and flirtatiousness. Read 12 Tips For First Kiss

Fair. I didn't ask for permission. More just said to myself, "I want to kiss you". And then made a move. But yes, it probably would have been smoother without saying a single word.

I sense low sexual self esteem from you here. Guys who aren't insecure about their sexual capabilities don't go around micro analyzing their bedroom performance or bragging about it. If you find yourself too worried about how you performed then that is a sign you might have some sexual insecurity. I could be wrong but I have a gut feeling that after you had sex with her you asked her how was the performance and she told you that answer about having all these orgasm or whatever to feed your ego and keep you around as a validation puppet. Don't ever ask a girl if you satisfied her.

One benefit out of this was that it was a sexual awakening. Probably the best sex I've ever had. Which is what made coming off that addiction so much worse.

Made me want to get to know more women. My number isn't that low, I've had 37 sexual partners in my life. I'm built like a lean athlete, handsome as fuck, and I don't have a subservient mentality. So I could get away with some things that would put the average person into "beta" category before taking a significant hit in a girl's eyes. But yes, it's probably better to err on the side having more abundance mentality.

I didn't ask her about her orgasms. She literally yelled out loud every time that everyone in the hotel could hear it.

I appreciate your reply, @FunGuy! I'm not dismissing any of them, just clarifying some things that were inaccurate.

I'm taking everything you said to heart. Onward and upward from here.

 

[Will_V]

Heya @Will_V ! She sent me a message late in the morning at 2AM. Can I PM you about it?

What did she text?

 

[MECHRuins]

What did she text?

Hey @Will_V. It was fairly long. But paraphrasing:

• explained why she took so long to respond (said she was unsure why, didn't feel inclined to)
• reiterated she learned about her inability to hold boundaries with me and was thankful for the lesson
• mentioned her noticing a vibe shift that night. How everything was safe and welcoming up until we became intimate, then the vibe shifted after - the vibe she got during intimacy was very different from every interaction before. Said she couldn't pinpoint what it was. She said she wasn't going to mention it to me but felt moved to tell me it.
• reiterated that she's on a healing process in life and that's what was most important to her
• ended it with saying that she hasn't been or will be communicating with others unless she feels compelled to do it.

My read on it: The vibe shift she mentioned is the main thing (and probably felt moved to mention it due to my text to her a few days before?). I'm not 100% on this, but it really confused her from the inviting and safe (safe meaning vulnerable and open) interactions we had and into a more primal mode of sex. She probably was expecting a more sensitive sexual experience.

Additional context: I sent her a text two days before that (haven't heard from her in a while) saying I realized that maybe she felt used from the experience. Because every communication we've had up to that point was about connection and safety, which was opposite to how the night ended during intimacy. Told her I didn't think that of her, and had high respect for her.

Would love to hear your thoughts if I'm on the right track. The bullet point about her not wanting to communicate with anyone unless compelled to do so worries me. But at least the rest of her text signals that she's curious about what happened that night.

 

[Will_V]

Hey @Will_V. It was fairly long. But paraphrasing:

• explained why she took so long to respond (said she was unsure why, didn't feel inclined to)
• reiterated she learned about her inability to hold boundaries with me and was thankful for the lesson
• mentioned the vibe shift that happened. How everything was safe and welcoming up until we became intimate, then the vibe shifted after - the vibe she got during intimacy was very different from every interaction before. Said she couldn't pinpoint what it was. She said she wasn't going to mention it to me but felt moved to tell me it.
• reiterated that she's on a healing process and that's what was most important to her
• ended it with saying that she hasn't been or will be communicating with others unless she feels compelled to do it.

My read on it: The vibe shift she mentioned is the main thing. I'm not 100% on this, but it really confused her from the inviting and safe (safe meaning vulnerable and open) interactions we had and into a more primal mode of sex. She probably was expecting a more sensitive sexual experience.

Additional context: I sent her a text two days before that (haven't heard from her in a while) saying I realized that maybe I she felt used from the experience. Because every communication we've had since then was about a connection and safety, which was very different from how the night ended during intimacy. Told her I didn't think that of her, and had high respect for her.

Would love to hear your thoughts if I'm on the right track. The bullet point about her not wanting to communicate with anyone unless compelled to do so worries me. But at least the rest of her text signals that she's curious about what happened that night.

Definitely comes across like she caught some serious feelings and then realized (or felt like) it was a one night stand, especially after the rough sex. Maybe she's never had rough sex before and isn't sure what to make of it, that's why generally you don't want to be too hardcore the first time around, especially with inexperienced or unstable girls.

Bit unusual how she was so down to have sex fast with you, basically closed you herself. Maybe in her mind it was a way of cementing the relationship. Or maybe she crossed her own wires about what she wanted. That wasn't helped by your mixed signals about what you wanted from her.

I'm not clear what 'communicate with others' means, who are 'others' and about what?

I think you are on the right track. The best thing you can do is give her some comfort and reassurance (but don't start accepting bad frames about what happened or promising or implying commitment you aren't giving). You can only properly do it face to face, so you want to find a way to meet with her.

If I were you, I'd say something along the lines of "Look I can tell you feel I haven't treated you right, and the last thing I want is you to feel bad about the time we spend together. I really enjoyed being with you and I want you to feel the same way. How about let's take a walk in the park and talk about it?". And then when you meet you just want to be super chill, listen to her, validate her feelings, and clarify how you see things.

If she's not willing to talk about it face to face, there's not much point trying to hash things out over text. I'm not sure if she was threatening to get you into trouble, but if so, trying to resolve the issue over text is a terrible idea.

 

[MECHRuins]

Definitely comes across like she caught some serious feelings and then realized (or felt like) it was a one night stand, especially after the rough sex. Maybe she's never had rough sex before and isn't sure what to make of it, that's why generally you don't want to be too hardcore the first time around, especially with inexperienced or unstable girls.

Bit unusual how she was so down to have sex fast with you, basically closed you herself. Maybe in her mind it was a way of cementing the relationship. Or maybe she crossed her own wires about what she wanted. That wasn't helped by your mixed signals about what you wanted from her.

I think you are on the right track. The best thing you can do is give her some comfort and reassurance (but don't start accepting bad frames about what happened or promising or implying commitment you aren't giving). You can only properly do it face to face, so you want to find a way to meet with her.

If I were you, I'd say something along the lines of "Look I can tell you feel I haven't treated you right, and the last thing I want is you to feel bad about the time we spend together. I really enjoyed being with you and I want you to feel the same way. How about let's take a walk in the park and talk about it?". And then when you meet you just want to be super chill, listen to her, validate her feelings, and clarify how you see things.

If she's not willing to talk about it face to face, there's not much point trying to hash things out over text. I'm not sure if she was threatening to get you into trouble, but if so, trying to resolve the issue over text is a terrible idea.

Thanks for the prompt response! Yeah, I don't think there's any threat about getting me into trouble. She's been honest the whole time about taking responsibility for her own actions. The part about boundaries was her feeling guilty with herself of not being more firm with her initial decision to use a condom. And there was no coercion or pushing things any way.

And I appreciate you confirming that her text is giving "buyer's remorse" signals. I'll explain to her what happened, and why there was such a shift in vibe. Maybe it will make her realize that I wasn't just there to get off and leave her hanging.

Your suggestion on what to say is good. I'll of course make it my own given the specific context me and this girl have, but the "essence" of what you suggested is good. It's comforting.

I'm not clear what 'communicate with others' means, who are 'others' and about what?

I'm not clear either. I read this as a soft rejection. Like her saying, "I'm not going to talk to you unless I want to, but it's okay because I'm not doing it to other people"; or to disqualify coming off as a slut maybe, "I'm not talking to other guys right now". I get a sense it's the former, and less the latter.

From reading the GirlsChase articles about Auto-Rejection, this reads like she's protecting her ego at the same time. So I shouldn't focus on that part as I should about the vibe shift, no? At least that's my take.