Men Who Use Money or Status to Get Girls: What's Your POV?

[Chase]

Branched off from this discussion.

You are trying to correlate big wallet with limp dick which isn’t how the world actually works. Sounds to me with the way you wrote it, *[I could be wrong I honestly am KJ at this point I’ve never been nor do I care about Dubai the Middle East is a ghetto dump] sounds like these “normal” women you are dating are the rejected left overs of these rich men. Something that I’ve started to see clog up my dating world is these women rejects of rich dudes who only after getting rejected start to humble themselves.

The money isn’t everything of course but a guy who has money, and looks and some basic caveman game is probably going to slay more then the guy with advanced game. Of course I’ve always felt that PUA is the matter of being the most nearby dick at a given situation so you don’t have to compete against looks,money and status.

Of course this topics been beaten to death but thought I’d reiterate my obvious point.



I’m finding more now adays I have less of a focus on seduction. I’m not really “seducing” as I’m more starting to move towards a “This is what I am” and providing a take it or leave it approach. I’ve been terrible at the gym, but have the money not so much the status.

*[Edit thought it would be important to note I’m hitting thirty soon]

I’m not doing fantastic I’m not doing ill either. Quite in the relaxed state. What’s your solution to the look, money and status? If it’s dancing money routine ain’t my thing I’ve never been good at that.

I’m curious the psychology of this.

I have enough money to get away with living comfortably without needing to work for a few decades. With investing I could probably just not work again period. If I wanted to live lavishly and do bottles and drive an expensive car and have a really nice place I probably couldn’t retire, but my schedule is already flexible enough in that I can work when I want to work and take off when I need to take off, so long as I’m getting the important stuff done.

I also run the world’s most popular men’s dating advice site. 58 million people have read my writing. Tens or hundreds of thousands of people know me by name (fewer by face, since I avoid doing video on any big platforms). Thousands of men have written to tell me they are in my debt, I have changed their lives, saved their lives, and so on.

Women do not find out any of this, normally. The instant one does, she is generally going to be OUT. It just damages the ability to screen properly too bad, plus it introduces a whole bunch of ulterior motives to the girl I simply do not want to deal with. (not talking about Fight Club is another reason for this, but separate from the money/status reasons)

But maybe I have PTSD from stupid money stuff when I was a kid. Maybe it’s genetic; my father keeps his finances very close to the chest too. Folks in my family prefer to downplay status as well. My paternal side descends from European aristocracy and it’s usually the practice to downplay wealth/status in those circles, at least when dealing with outsiders / people you don’t know well.

I did try using some amount of status when I was young and fresh out of college working at a big name consulting firm. Girls did not care about it, probably because the city I was in was filled with people working for big name consulting firms! Once I had status girls actually responded to, though, I have found the dynamic it gets you with girls (where they become needy/sneaky/ulterior motives start kicking in) is one I really do not like.

However, for the guys who use money or status to lay chicks, what’s the thinking/feeling here?

I’ve known guys doing this but never actually talked to them about motives/priorities/perspectives.

My guess is the point-of-view is something like:

• “I don’t care about screening her early on. I’ll find out who she is as I date her, if I do.”
  
  
• “I’m not worried about girls I ONS going psycho on me/turning into stalkers/becoming jilted vengeful former lovers. That never happens / is rare enough there’s no point worrying about it.”
  
  
• “It doesn’t matter if she wants me because I have money or status or she wants me because she found me interesting to talk to. It’s all the same thing, just ways to get dick into pussy.”
  
  
• “The girls you get with when you have money/status are BETTER. There’s no way to get these girls without showing you have money/status.”

Am I hitting this right or are there other thoughts here?

I ask because I have also had clients doing this and generally advise them to downplay money/status in their pickups, but I would be curious to know how it looks from the other side of things.

Chase

@MuST0BtA1NSkR1Lla

 

[PaulieFlyn10]

Great topic. I live in a classist environment where money is such a big deal.

I'm literally the only one in my circle who does the whole PUA thing. And a large majority of guys I meet seem to love using money to seduce girls.

I can't the number of debates, arguments I've had with guys on this. In fact, some guys have gone ahead to say "not using money is immature"

Now, after having countless conversations, debates and arguments with different guys on these issues... these are some of the mindsets that keep recurring.


● They feel money and status makes things easier in terms of attraction and seduction.

A guy just recently made a post in my WhatsApp group where he said for 2 years he didn't post videos of himself at the club or living an affluent lifestyle. And most of the girls he was in contact with seemed to find him boring.

But he started posting pics and videos of him spending at th club last month. And it seems a lot of the girls have flipped. They've become more engaging, responding to him faster, want to come to his apartment etc.

A lot of guys have also shared similar experiences of how money just makes girls attracted. Also, a lot of these girls become willing to sleep with them so the money keeps on coming.

So to them, if all it takes is a few transfers and gifts with some conversations then why not.

Now, I do agree with @MuST0BtA1NSkR1Lla on the status part. A guy with status and some cash would def pull more girls than a guy with advanced game. I disagree on the money part alone. Status must be present.

I'm friends with some local celebrities that are young actors and their dms on IG is filled with girls. Granted, these guys are not ugly or broke

I'll also add that those normal friends I have that use money aren't bad at game. They're not great either but definitely not bad.

Plus, I believe the added experience they get from sleeping with girls using money rubs off on their confidence and vibe in addition to the money they have.


● Another reason, these guys have is since it's just sex, it doesn't matter.

They're not planning to marry them or date them long term so all they care about is dìck in pussy. "Just fuck her till you're tired"

Don't take her seriously. Even though a few them, go back and eventually do


● Another one is the ego trip. Some guys like the fact that some girls are willing to do a lot for a good pay day.

So they'll exploit it as much as they can. Due to hard times, there are a lot of girls that are willing to "cry in a lambo or massion than in an average car"

These guys get high off the fact that girls are willing to do their requests for money or a more exotic lifestyle than they're used to


● This next one is cultural. It's considered a taboo for example for majority of men in my tribe for example to allow a woman spend or provide for the home.

These men kick against splitting bills or making the woman pay.

They believe taking a woman out and spending on her is what makes a real man. And they're not prepared to listen to contrary opinions


● There's also a belief that you can't get certain calibre of girls without money.

Examples of girls commonly cited are A list celebrities, daughters of business tycoons, celebrities and influences funded by rich politicians.


● Another one is the belief that women always go for the highest bidder.

Their reasons for these are celebrities like Drake fucking people's gfs

And the way girls go crazy over celebrities at concert. Throwing their bras at musicians (Drake has a very large collection of female fans bras), running after them etc.

These girls, some of them are in committed relationships so when these guys see stuff like this... it's always "women are women"

Some of them have even said point blank "If a celebrity like Ronaldo wanted your gf and you think she won't follow him... you're a fool"

And I've been hearing stuff like this before the red pill hypergamy theory became popular.



● The money and status is also for convenience or speed for them.

They just flash an exotic lifestyle or spend on a girl then subtly or indirectly request sex for that to continue.

For those that have a way to display status or wealth to a wide array of women... they'll have enough leads to choose from

And of course some of the girls will bite.

The more that bite, the more they have confidence in this approach

 

[Dimension]

Whole my player "career" i have seen many different situations with many different women.

This one comes from my personal experience as well.

Years ago when i seduced a girl who was a virgin (She was trying to sell her virginity for money on special website)
Stunning girl, with long blonde hair, cute face with blue eyes and long slim legs. (23 years old, no idea how she managed to stay virgin whole this time but meh)

At the time i met her she was also sort of dating a guy mid 40s, for intentions to sell him virginity and they even came for agreement for 15k EUR, price for her virginity.
Long story short, i seduced that girl and she was ready to have sex with me, she even begged me to take her virginity, said she much rather wants to gift it to me than to someone who doesn't deserve it.
Eventually i passed on the offer, because she was so into me and i didn't have heart to take her virginity and leave her..

Money matters to some degree, but in the end i think your skills and chemistry you build with her is much more valuable.
But i would imagine that if i didn't have the skillset, charm and looks, i think it would be super challanging to get girls, because let's face it, i'm nowhere near financially secure.. Lol
At the end of the day, women want stability and sadly money brings stability. But that's not all what it takes, you still need to be there emotionally as well as financially, if we are talking about relationship.
Short term wise i don't think rich guys can compete against players, because it's not like you're going to throw money at local bars or clubs..

I had a friend who was also in good shape with solid looks, and most importantly he is very secure financially, but he has no game, needy as fuck and doesn't know his game as well as i do. He was trying to get a girl i eventually fucked, even though i'm nowhere near the financial level he is on.
But it really relies on culture and women's beliefs, because somewhere in the world i think he would've get away with it, leaving me empty handed.

D

 

[DarkKnight]

I think most guys have become super insecure due to instagram and all the dhving everyone is doing, but LMS is a huge crutch. Due to not getting enough confirmation that you are enough and girls are attracted to you by being you, people start to overly compensate by going to the gym making money blah blah. Caused by never developing to be sexy, but focusing on others things, following the rules and other societal conditioning

In a way LMS is a very DEFENSIVE kind of game , because you protect your ego and having to actually seduce the woman. It is build on "if you build they will come" which is a faulty reasoning and a bit of a copout.

• “I don’t care about screening her early on. I’ll find out who she is as I date her, if I do.”
  
  
• “I’m not worried about girls I ONS going psycho on me/turning into stalkers/becoming jilted vengeful former lovers. That never happens / is rare enough there’s no point worrying about it.”
  
  
• “It doesn’t matter if she wants me because I have money or status or she wants me because she found me interesting to talk to. It’s all the same thing, just ways to get dick into pussy.”
  
  
• “The girls you get with when you have money/status are BETTER. There’s no way to get these girls without showing you have money/status.”

I don't think these guys are that far with their reasoning but rather are hoping they get ANY decent girl by their chosen method.

"I’m finding more now adays I have less of a focus on seduction. I’m not really “seducing” as I’m more starting to move towards a “This is what I am” and providing a take it or leave it approach. I’ve been terrible at the gym, but have the money not so much the status."

I suspect the above is a result of a burn out due to game which can be stressful from time to time and we all experience loss of momentum, but on a hot streak we suddenly WANT to engage on seduction, because we are winning. It is important to be cognitive about this.

Edit:

Also I have noticed that some of my friends who are not succesful are most vocal about this LMS thing , basically NEEDING me to buy into this frame but it is so they can rationalize their lack of success. This probably has a synergetic exchange with the redpill .

 

[PaulieFlyn10]

I think most guys have become super insecure due to instagram and all the dhving everyone is doing, but LMS is a huge crutch. Due to not getting enough confirmation that you are enough and girls are attracted to you by being you, people start to overly compensate by going to the gym making money blah blah. Caused by never developing to be sexy, but focusing on others things, following the rules and other societal conditioning

In a way LMS is a very DEFENSIVE kind of game , because you protect your ego and having to actually seduce the woman. It is build on "if you build they will come" which is a faulty reasoning and a bit of a copout.

I don't think these guys are that far with their reasoning but rather are hoping they get ANY decent girl by their chosen method.

"I’m finding more now adays I have less of a focus on seduction. I’m not really “seducing” as I’m more starting to move towards a “This is what I am” and providing a take it or leave it approach. I’ve been terrible at the gym, but have the money not so much the status."

I suspect the above is a result of a burn out due to game which can be stressful from time to time and we all experience loss of momentum, but on a hot streak we suddenly WANT to engage on seduction, because we are winning. It is important to be cognitive about this.

Edit:

Also I have noticed that some of my friends who are not succesful are most vocal about this LMS thing , basically NEEDING me to buy into this frame but it is so they can rationalize their lack of success. This probably has a synergetic exchange with the redpill .

I do think they've gone far with their reasoning especially with the ONS thing and them just wanting to bust a nut

To them, genuine sexual desire doesn't matter to them as long as they're fucking girls. They could care less.

A lot of them also have this mindset of "what else am I making for if not for women"

It's definitely from a place of insecurity. But when the whole money thing gets them some pussy... it's hard for them to see a different view

Short term, it's only about the sex.

The only time they start caring about genuine sexual desire and attraction is when it's time for a long term relationship/marriage etc

Cuz eventually they soon find out their money isn't enough

 

[DarkKnight]

Short term, it's only about the sex.

The only time they start caring about genuine sexual desire and attraction is when it's time for a long term relationship/marriage etc

Cuz eventually they soon find out their money isn't enough

A lot of guys just want a hot girlfriend who they can hold on to. You are underestimating the desperation a lot of these fellas feel. So it is not only for short term, I don't buy that.

 

[PaulieFlyn10]

A lot of guys just want a hot girlfriend who they can hold on to. You are underestimating the desperation a lot of these fellas feel. So it is not only for short term, I don't buy that.

Their mindset is usually to have sex short term but as things go on... they end up considering long term


Also you underestimate how insecure men are today. I would have said the same thing if I didn't have conversations with these men.

Some men (out of insecurity) that hotter girls get too many attention and therefore are more likely to cheat

I've had instances where I tell a guy if he has any girl he can introduce me to so I can get a gf. He then asks for my spec.

After sending them pics of really hot girls, they hit me back with "are you sure you're looking for someone serious or just sex" lol

A lot of guys are insecure and it can manifest in different ways and projections

One look at red pill should tell you all you need to know.

I've seen comments like "9s and 10s don't make good wives or gfs. 6s and 7s make the best wives"
And they strongly believe that crap

 

[DarkKnight]

Their mindset is usually to have sex short term but as things go on... they end up considering long term

how do you even know this? Who are "they"?

Also you underestimate how insecure men are today. I would have said the same thing if I didn't have conversations with these men.

what? so insecure men are playing the field instead of clamping themselves on the ONE SHOT they have?

I've seen comments like "9s and 10s don't make good wives or gfs. 6s and 7s make the best wives"
And they strongly believe that crap

They strongly believe this when they didnt engage this girl yet, but when a 9 or a 10 gives them signals that they have a shot they change their mentality. It is like what Mike Tyson said, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.

Anyway we are about to derail the thread so I will end this here before this conversation branches off

 

[PaulieFlyn10]

how do you even know this? Who are "they"?

what? so insecure men are playing the field instead of clamping themselves on the ONE SHOT they have?


They strongly believe this when they didnt engage this girl yet, but when a 9 or a 10 gives them signals that they have a shot they change their mentality. It is like what Mike Tyson said, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.

Anyway we are about the derail the thread so I will end this here before this conversation branches off

I'm referring to men with money and some status. Or one of each

I know this because I've had conversations with different kinds of men

I'm also talking guys with 10k to 50k followers ig who do have some pre-selection


You'll have to get actual conversations with guys like these to understand their mindset

If you believe they change their mentality, why do a lot of red pill gurus date/wife up girls that are no where 9s and 10s

What I told you is a popular mindset in red pill. And it is common among many young guys today

 

[DarkKnight]

If you believe they change their mentality, why do a lot of red pill gurus date/wife up girls that are no where 9s and 10s

Because a lot of those gurus are not as succesful as they claim to be. They are in the red pill for a reason and not because they are super seducers.

Real question is, do they even lay 9ns and 10s who are not hookers or borderline crazy and if yes, why would they not want to hold on to them doesnt make sense unless these guys are super studs. Which I highly doubt

 

[raiden]

My view is that it's much more difficult to get women using money and status than pure fundamentals, so more power to these guys. For me, as I became more successful, I got no further attraction from women. It was always based on my fundamentals. Money doesn't get you approach invitations. Money doesn't get your opener to hook. So if you're actually dating successfully as a guy with poor fundamentals but a strong wallet, and it's not the sex work category of dating, kudos to you.

 

[TomInHo]

This is a nuanced topic, but from my experience... Money and status are extremely attractive and can be used as leverage.

I know in the pickup community we like to downplay the importance of LMS, but honestly, I cannot deny that it can help guys get girls on the front end of seduction.

For example:

I have been broke as a joke and was still able to lay girls. But I had a few experiences that showed me the power of LMS.

1) Club Table Game:

Before, I used to go to clubs without a table and did just fine. But then one of my best friends got a job as a club promoter and had access to tables, and that experience was surreal.

I noticed that women became way more receptive because they assumed I had money and status due to being on the table. That allowed me to hook very easily and seduce women I usually wouldn't have access to.

Also, while in the promoting scene, they used to throw after parties in mansions after the club. And those things were like going to a brothel. Because if you were able to get in there, it meant you had social proof, and ratios were always insane. The women there were also stunning and more down to hookup with a guy they perceived as High Value.

For me and my friend, getting access to the table and after parties increased both our quantity and quality with less upfront work for attraction. But this doesn't mean that a guy with access to the same things will get laid.

Because while I was in that scene, some of my friends' coworkers who were also promoters were surprised that my buddy and I were able to pull girls so consistently

So this taught me that a man still needs to know how to move the seduction forward and LMS alone can't do that for you

2) Fraternity Game:

This one is kind of funny because I was in a fraternity even though I didn't go to school there.

I used to work in a gym close to a very popular college and made friends with one of the patrons. He liked me and told me to join his frat, and we made up a story that I went to school there and I became the pledge master of the frat.

They would throw parties which I obviously went to, and pulling girls was stupid easy. Once they knew I was in the Frat and Pledge Master, they spread their legs very often.

And just like with the club days, a lot of my Frat Bros were still having issues fucking girls, although they had a major advantage. So, this then led to something quite interesting...

My friend that invited me to the frat had me give my brothers advice on women every Tuesday. We would share techniques and tell stories so the guys would pick up on what works.

I was more natural back then, so I didn't really know how to explain things super well, but the bros seemed to enjoy that segment. In fact, it got to the point they started telling girls about it lol.

Even though they were talking about Fight Club, what ended up happening was girls would find out about my reputation then want to experience it for themselves.

So at first I was getting laid with skill and access. But the longer I stayed in the frat I got laid more purely off Status and girls coming to seek me out


3) Social Media:

As I got older, I got into growing my business with social media, and it had its perks.

My content was mostly geared towards men, but I also had some women followers, and every once in a while, one of them would message me because she wanted to hang out

4) Online Dating:

You don't need money and status to do well with online, but it can help you a ton. Because if you demonstrate with your profile that you might have money and a good lifestyle, you will see an uptick in your matches.

In fact, one of my good friends does this. He is not the most handsome man in the world but not ugly either. When he had a plain profile, his results were meh.

And this may sound strange to some of you, but now he puts things in his bio talking about how he loves money lol. Has pictures of him on boats in Dubai, riding ATVs, hanging out in exclusive clubs, and his results skyrocketed.

When he goes on dates, he does end up spending quite a bit of money, but it doesn't really mean much to him. He is still a fun dude and pretty charismatic and fucks a good amount of his dates.

But one funny thing is a lot of them get attached very fast and try to lock him down because he seems like a solid catch. The only problem is he has no intentions of settling down soon, so sometimes I think he may send the wrong message.

So learning from him, I implemented some similar tactics but with a bit more nuance.

For example, I can be looking at a girl's profile, and I can tell she is more of a social climber or status girl. So when interacting with her, I will funnel her to my IG to show social proof to increase compliance and invite her out to a date to a place that is fancy.

But when on the date, I don't spend much money at all. And instead, use it as bait to get her in front of men so I can run game and get aroused enough to hookup. It's all an illusion to make it seem like I'm a super high status guy just to get enough compliance to get her to fall into frames more conducive to fast sex

Btw, I don't use this approach with every girl and prefer to start things off more lowkey. But sometimes this is necessary to get certain girls out aka... calibration

Also, during the relationship, I tend to not spend much money on the girls I get with that approach. Some girls do fall off but some girls also stick around so IMO it has a decent ROI

In fact, some of them end up spending on me even though they know I make more than them. My theory is they do it as a way to separate themselves from other girls to show how they are not with me for my money. But ironically some of those same girls had sugar daddies too, so I'm guessing that's just how they are

TLDR:

Looks, Money, Status are fucking attractive. You don't need it to get laid, but having it and knowing how to leverage it can give you more access to women easily.

Learn game, but don't neglect building an attractive lifestyle too because that will also improve your life far beyond just women.


EDIT

Also last minute edit to address some of the questions @Chase asked

• “I don’t care about screening her early on. I’ll find out who she is as I date her, if I do.”

I'm aware of the early frame I set with girls and not stupid. I know some of them will try to change themselves in to what they think I like.

This is a good and bad thing because you can get girls to bend to your frame and see your worldview because they see a possible payout. But I will not take a girl very seriously until after I've been in a relationship with her for a while to see if her interest if genuine

• “I’m not worried about girls I ONS going psycho on me/turning into stalkers/becoming jilted vengeful former lovers. That never happens / is rare enough there’s no point worrying about it.”

Never had any jilted lovers because I've gotten decent at setting expectations. Can't say the same for some guys that leverage LMS though because sometimes they feel like they have to lie to get what they want

I just use it as bait to get them in then do business as usual after

• “It doesn’t matter if she wants me because I have money or status or she wants me because she found me interesting to talk to. It’s all the same thing, just ways to get dick into pussy.”

Tbh yeah it really doesn't matter.

I don't do it but have friends that have zero issues paying for pussy directly. It's a different mindset and those guys don't give a damn about love or affection they just want the sex without the hassle

They do this with whores and sugar babies and in my opinion as long as they are happy with it it I'm in no position to judge

• “The girls you get with when you have money/status are BETTER. There’s no way to get these girls without showing you have money/status.”

I wouldn't say they are better. They are just different

We have a lot of attraction switches and money and status are just few of them. You might be able to get the same girl with no LMS but there's also a chance you will have almost no chance of meeting that same girl without it

I just see it a tool in the toolbox for getting what you want. But do be aware that if you focus on Money and Status you will also need backend game for screening out real Gold Diggers and Sociopathic women. Because that style of game can make you a target

 

[DoWhatWorks]

Was going to skip over this topic but couldn't help myself but chime in.

TDLR: LMS is an optional amplifier but not a silver bullet.

Have wings who're huge on LMS there's a lot of nuance but here are my observations:

1. LMS gives you access which helps with meeting (and eventually sleeping with) girls

e.g. high-end clubs with good ratios or an apartment in the city centre that makes pulls easier.

With that said, there's plenty of guys with these things that aren't getting laid. But saying these things don't help is disingenuous


2. LMS is mandatory for a sub-sect of girls but it's a minority (unlike RP want you to believe)

Some girls won't check for you unless you're a certain threshold of LMS. We shun it on this part of the internet but it is what it is. Just like the way some competent guys here don't date girls over a certain age or weight lol.

People have preferences. With that said there's more than enough girls who don't care about that and some even actively turned off by it to have enough pussy to last many lifetimes.


3. Guys often confuse good fundamentals with LMS

Women are horrific at working out which guy has money or not. They will over-estimate or under-estimate people's value all the time. Oh he has a Balenciaga top he must be rich even though it might be fake, worn for years or even rented (yes people are renting designer clothes - it's a mess). Oh he's in this party he must be connected/rich when it's simply a broke promoter who's fun to be around and has access to girls so rich guys are friends with him.

Being good looking, charming and having decent logistics is very attainable and doesn't need millions in the bank.

4. Guys project what they see as "successful" as attractive to women

You see this all the time - "women like bodybuilders" when in reality that lean brad pit fight club physique is rated number 1

"If I make millions my wife will love me" but when they get divorced all she wanted was you to spend more time with her & the kids

Men really struggle with the concept of making women "feel" something. It's why there are plenty of guys with LMS in terrible relationships or no girls. It's hard for them to wrap their head around game so they use LMS to paper the cracks.

In the process they gain a little confidence and fundamentals that help but it was probably the confidence and looks that made the biggest difference not necessarily the LMS itself.

So yeah it's nuanced... LMS helps (disingenuous to say it doesn't) to varying levels depending on the type of girl but it's not compulsory.

 

[PaulieFlyn10]

This is a nuanced topic, but from my experience... Money and status are extremely attractive and can be used as leverage.

I know in the pickup community we like to downplay the importance of LMS, but honestly, I cannot deny that it can help guys get girls on the front end of seduction.

For example:

I have been broke as a joke and was still able to lay girls. But I had a few experiences that showed me the power of LMS.

1) Club Table Game:

Before, I used to go to clubs without a table and did just fine. But then one of my best friends got a job as a club promoter and had access to tables, and that experience was surreal.

I noticed that women became way more receptive because they assumed I had money and status due to being on the table. That allowed me to hook very easily and seduce women I usually wouldn't have access to.

Also, while in the promoting scene, they used to throw after parties in mansions after the club. And those things were like going to a brothel. Because if you were able to get in there, it meant you had social proof, and ratios were always insane. The women there were also stunning and more down to hookup with a guy they perceived as High Value.

For me and my friend, getting access to the table and after parties increased both our quantity and quality with less upfront work for attraction. But this doesn't mean that a guy with access to the same things will get laid.

Because while I was in that scene, some of my friends' coworkers who were also promoters were surprised that my buddy and I were able to pull girls so consistently

So this taught me that a man still needs to know how to move the seduction forward and LMS alone can't do that for you

2) Fraternity Game:

This one is kind of funny because I was in a fraternity even though I didn't go to school there.

I used to work in a gym close to a very popular college and made friends with one of the patrons. He liked me and told me to join his frat, and we made up a story that I went to school there and I became the pledge master of the frat.

They would throw parties which I obviously went to, and pulling girls was stupid easy. Once they knew I was in the Frat and Pledge Master, they spread their legs very often.

And just like with the club days, a lot of my Frat Bros were still having issues fucking girls, although they had a major advantage. So, this then led to something quite interesting...

My friend that invited me to the frat had me give my brothers advice on women every Tuesday. We would share techniques and tell stories so the guys would pick up on what works.

I was more natural back then, so I didn't really know how to explain things super well, but the bros seemed to enjoy that segment. In fact, it got to the point they started telling girls about it lol.

Even though they were talking about Fight Club, what ended up happening was girls would find out about my reputation then want to experience it for themselves.

So at first I was getting laid with skill and access. But the longer I stayed in the frat I got laid more purely off Status and girls coming to seek me out


3) Social Media:

As I got older, I got into growing my business with social media, and it had its perks.

My content was mostly geared towards men, but I also had some women followers, and every once in a while, one of them would message me because she wanted to hang out

4) Online Dating:

You don't need money and status to do well with online, but it can help you a ton. Because if you demonstrate with your profile that you might have money and a good lifestyle, you will see an uptick in your matches.

In fact, one of my good friends does this. He is not the most handsome man in the world but not ugly either. When he had a plain profile, his results were meh.

And this may sound strange to some of you, but now he puts things in his bio talking about how he loves money lol. Has pictures of him on boats in Dubai, riding ATVs, hanging out in exclusive clubs, and his results skyrocketed.

When he goes on dates, he does end up spending quite a bit of money, but it doesn't really mean much to him. He is still a fun dude and pretty charismatic and fucks a good amount of his dates.

But one funny thing is a lot of them get attached very fast and try to lock him down because he seems like a solid catch. The only problem is he has no intentions of settling down soon, so sometimes I think he may send the wrong message.

So learning from him, I implemented some similar tactics but with a bit more nuance.

For example, I can be looking at a girl's profile, and I can tell she is more of a social climber or status girl. So when interacting with her, I will funnel her to my IG to show social proof to increase compliance and invite her out to a date to a place that is fancy.

But when on the date, I don't spend much money at all. And instead, use it as bait to get her in front of men so I can run game and get aroused enough to hookup. It's all an illusion to make it seem like I'm a super high status guy just to get enough compliance to get her to fall into frames more conducive to fast sex

Btw, I don't use this approach with every girl and prefer to start things off more lowkey. But sometimes this is necessary to get certain girls out aka... calibration

Also, during the relationship, I tend to not spend much money on the girls I get with that approach. Some girls do fall off but some girls also stick around so IMO it has a decent ROI

In fact, some of them end up spending on me even though they know I make more than them. My theory is they do it as a way to separate themselves from other girls to show how they are not with me for my money. But ironically some of those same girls had sugar daddies too, so I'm guessing that's just how they are

TLDR:

Looks, Money, Status are fucking attractive. You don't need it to get laid, but having it and knowing how to leverage it can give you more access to women easily.

Learn game, but don't neglect building an attractive lifestyle too because that will also improve your life far beyond just women.


EDIT

Also last minute edit to address some of the questions @Chase asked



I'm aware of the early frame I set with girls and not stupid. I know some of them will try to change themselves in to what they think I like.

This is a good and bad thing because you can get girls to bend to your frame and see your worldview because they see a possible payout. But I will not take a girl very seriously until after I've been in a relationship with her for a while to see if her interest if genuine



Never had any jilted lovers because I've gotten decent at setting expectations. Can't say the same for some guys that leverage LMS though because sometimes they feel like they have to lie to get what they want

I just use it as bait to get them in then do business as usual after



Tbh yeah it really doesn't matter.

I don't do it but have friends that have zero issues paying for pussy directly. It's a different mindset and those guys don't give a damn about love or affection they just want the sex without the hassle

They do this with whores and sugar babies and in my opinion as long as they are happy with it it I'm in no position to judge



I wouldn't say they are better. They are just different

We have a lot of attraction switches and money and status are just few of them. You might be able to get the same girl with no LMS but there's also a chance you will have almost no chance of meeting that same girl without it

I just see it a tool in the toolbox for getting what you want. But do be aware that if you focus on Money and Status you will also need backend game for screening out real Gold Diggers and Sociopathic women. Because that style of game can make you a target

Well said

 

[Skills]

The people that troll the money is cope cause they don't have it, but the people that are on the i need money to get girls are off as well...

I was going to write a post on the proper way to get money to get laid... Even though I talked about it a lot in multiple posts... Guys that use money correctly don't lead with money... Leading with money is a major mistake.

But also there are some issues as well, the attraction switch is a different attraction switch from regular seduction... She is getting attracted by a projection of seeing herself with you house, kids and family vs the pure sexual desire...

Guys with game can use it as leverage dangling the string on the cat....but is not the same as cat coming and purring while rubbing on your leg.... Is 2 different positive reactions, both positive but different.

Totally different attraction switches but yes it does achieve the goal if you just want a hit it... But also presents more issues for example if you get her Prego accidentally good luck selling abortion, easier for the with fra and lawsuits etc...If you go broke, also they are out eventually if you don't recover fast... Eventually i was going to write a post on this, chase bit me to it...

And for the 50th time I have never heard a top guy saying LMS doesn't matter(it was some type of marketing angle 20 years ago and it died fast, noone in the last 10 years sells it anymore), the issue is you had all this black pikers kj and red pillers saying the only thing that matters as cope living in the mama basement and going into rage and killing streaks... Again game is how to get around all that... thominho examples has 0 appeal to me done all that..it depends on your style and goals...

 

[Bismarck]

I can confirm - from experience - that status is inherently attractive to girls. But like I believe Chase has already written somewhere, she needs to be able to see that status somehow, like the footballer.

When I was a tour guide the girls could see my status, as I was the alpha dog in the group, leading everyone, with authority frame. Of course the fact that I was transmitting passion and enthusiastic helped, as did the fact that I’m not ugly, that I had good posture, that I was fit, stylish, and that I had strong EC and a booming voice.

I also used to wear a jersey from a college I studied abroad in that at the time was the best in the world. If I escalated and gamed the girl well, it helped fuck close. If on the other hand I became indecisive and pussyfooted, I wouldn’t. The girl would still want my attention, but she wouldn’t give me her twat anymore, as the WoO had closed.

That said, even outside that very particular context, from certain cues, such as my pristine spoken English without any trace of a foreign accent, and okay, maybe my taste for expensive attire and jewellery, girls can still suss out status, whereupon they open up their legs easily, but then, like Tom was saying, they “fall” for me (a gimmick of course, they just want to snag me as a bf to parade me around, due to believing me to be a catch, so they quickly slam shut the moist flower’s gates demanding commitment/investment).

Also, as Dev has called my attention to, girls easily enter auto-rejection, which is why I try to tease as little as possible.

 

[Chase]

Great discussion, fellas.

Yeah, there's certainly no arguing with the fact that money and status can help you get laid.

I guess we're ultimately breaking guys going the LMS route down into two camps:

1. Guys where LMS is the only card they have to play. These guys haven't learned game, don't want to/can't learn it, so lean on LMS and have to cope to themselves that it's the best to safeguard their egos. They're not typically doing too great with girls and a lot of girls see them as marks.
   
   
2. Guys who are combining game + LMS. These guys are mostly purely short-term focused, just out for the bang. LMS is a tool in their tool belt that helps make the whole pickup process easier and allows them to fish in the pool of girls who exclusively (or almost exclusively) go for LMS guys. The only hurdles for them are ensuring they don't set wrong expectations that will lead to bad outcomes with girls plus needing to be real careful about sliding into an LTR with a girl they used LMS to hook/get.

But also there are some issues as well, the attraction switch is a different attraction switch from regular seduction... She is getting attracted by a projection of seeing herself with you house, kids and family vs the pure sexual desire...

Guys with game can use it as leverage dangling the string on the cat....but is not the same as cat coming and purring while rubbing on your leg.... Is 2 different positive reactions, both positive but different.

Totally different attraction switches but yes it does achieve the goal if you just want a hit it... But also presents more issues for example if you get her Prego accidentally good luck selling abortion, easier for the with fra and lawsuits etc...If you go broke, also they are out eventually if you don't recover fast... Eventually i was going to write a post on this, chase bit me to it...

I like this dichotomy, of it being a different kind of attraction switch.

When I have had girls trying to get with me after finding out LMS stuff about me, it is obvious they are attracted but it is a very different kind of attracted feeling than what you get from seduction without LMS.

The only point I will quibble with though is if it's house/kids/family, why is LMS such a good ONS booster? Conspicuous consumption, looking high status and connected, super good looks, all these things will get chicks jumping into bed fast, assuming the guy is not socially stunted and knows how to move things forward and close. Many chicks are status junkies, just going around to private parties hooking up with all the rich guys or connected guys they can get their claws on. Groupie chicks bounce from one rock band to another and bang all the band members. Etc. These girls aren't angling for holy matrimony.

My belief is it's a mating strategy analogous to how girls who are 6s will go on online dating and hunt for guys who are 9s and 10s. They get pumped and dumped a lot but if they play the game long enough sometimes they lock down a 9 or 10 guy who was just tired of banging randoms or hit a hard stretch in life and couldn't keep dating and just took whatever girl was available. Or how in high sex ratio environments (like most modern college campuses) most of the girls end up hooking up a lot and hating it, hating men, etc., but they have to play the game or they just get no shot with guys at all, because guys can afford to bounce from girl to girl with so many women around.

I think the attraction trigger is likely the same thing as that: "Wow, I don't know if I can lock this guy down, but let me take my shot. He's so high status and sexy."

Chase

 

[Skills]

Great discussion, fellas.

Yeah, there's certainly no arguing with the fact that money and status can help you get laid.

I guess we're ultimately breaking guys going the LMS route down into two camps:

1. Guys where LMS is the only card they have to play. These guys haven't learned game, don't want to/can't learn it, so lean on LMS and have to cope to themselves that it's the best to safeguard their egos. They're not typically doing too great with girls and a lot of girls see them as marks.
   
   
2. Guys who are combining game + LMS. These guys are mostly purely short-term focused, just out for the bang. LMS is a tool in their tool belt that helps make the whole pickup process easier and allows them to fish in the pool of girls who exclusively (or almost exclusively) go for LMS guys. The only hurdles for them are ensuring they don't set wrong expectations that will lead to bad outcomes with girls plus needing to be real careful about sliding into an LTR with a girl they used LMS to hook/get.

I like this dichotomy, of it being a different kind of attraction switch.

When I have had girls trying to get with me after finding out LMS stuff about me, it is obvious they are attracted but it is a very different kind of attracted feeling than what you get from seduction without LMS.

The only point I will quibble with though is if it's house/kids/family, why is LMS such a good ONS booster? Conspicuous consumption, looking high status and connected, super good looks, all these things will get chicks jumping into bed fast, assuming the guy is not socially stunted and knows how to move things forward and close. Many chicks are status junkies, just going around to private parties hooking up with all the rich guys or connected guys they can get their claws on. Groupie chicks bounce from one rock band to another and bang all the band members. Etc. These girls aren't angling for holy matrimony.

My belief is it's a mating strategy analogous to how girls who are 6s will go on online dating and hunt for guys who are 9s and 10s. They get pumped and dumped a lot but if they play the game long enough sometimes they lock down a 9 or 10 guy who was just tired of banging randoms or hit a hard stretch in life and couldn't keep dating and just took whatever girl was available. Or how in high sex ratio environments (like most modern college campuses) most of the girls end up hooking up a lot and hating it, hating men, etc., but they have to play the game or they just get no shot with guys at all, because guys can afford to bounce from girl to girl with so many women around.

I think the attraction trigger is likely the same thing as that: "Wow, I don't know if I can lock this guy down, but let me take my shot. He's so high status and sexy."

Chase

Yeah that is why I said etc .. your example the etc .. no disagreement... But i seen scenarios of pulls at closing location the girl dtf realize dude got wealth artificial asd... No lay seen that to..

 

[rockstar]

This is an interesting topic. I think money and status play different roles here, and I also think you have to narrow in on your definition of status to have this discussion as well.

Money


What does money do in seduction? Here's what I can think of:
1. It gives you some amount of value. Being successful financially is cool, and if you've made yourself rich that implies positive things about who you are.
2. You can use money to pay girls directly (sugar dating). I know there are guys who have a lot of success doing this, but I'm not too familiar with that world.
3. You can use money to get access to events and environments with hotter women. (Buying your way into these events, throwing your own yacht/mansion parties, etc)
4. You can bait girls to meet you with expensive first dates (flying them out, fancy restaurants, etc). I see this backfire and not work out for a lot of guys, so I'm not convinced this is a worthwhile strategy.

I think a lot of people overrate the power of 1. Money is cool, but there are tons of lame rich guys, and it won't make girls attracted to you by itself or make up for bad game. It's also not that easy to display. Girls are never going to see your bank account, and girls are pretty sensitive to guys trying to use wealth to qualify themselves. That will just make you look lame af.

What are the cons to using money?
1. You can display too much "provider value" and put yourself in frame that you don't want.
2. You can attract gold digger types who want to take advantage of you and get things from you. I don't think it should be that hard to shut down girls trying to get things like gifts and trips from you.
3. Maybe you attract more girls who put on a face to get involved with you for your lifestyle? I've never been rich, so I can't say if this is a real issue people face.

Status

So what is status anyway? Sometimes I see people referring to things like being a heart surgeon, having a seven-figure business, lawyer at big-name firm, etc as status. Most 20 year old girls just don't care about stuff like this. Sure, it's still cool, and this is still value, but there are way more powerful ways you can have status. So I'm not going to talk about the career prestige/I have a fancy job title thing. That can really put you in the provider category anyway. The types of status I'm referring to are:

1.You're a celebrity in a cool area like sports, music, movies, etc. We know this is immensely powerful, but it's also not relevant to anyone on this forum, so I'm not going to talk about it any further either.
2. You have status in some smaller world relevant to her. She knows who you are before she meets you. This could be status in an area of interest of hers (she's a comedy fan at your show, she loves cooking and watches your home cooking youtube channel, she's studying neuroscience and you're a professor who wrote a well-known popular science book on the subject, etc). This could also be more local (you're the owner of the trendy new restaurant in town, the super charismatic guy in the coolest frat on campus that everybody knows, the local dj that plays at the coolest club and parties, the yoga teacher, etc.)

You can even have number 2 in smaller ways than you might think. For example, imagine a college equestrian team with 9 girls and 1 guys. The guy is decent-looking, cool/sociable, and good at what he does, and they all spend a lot of time around each other. This is a small/low opportunity social circle, but that guy will have very leverageable status there.

There are a couple other smaller ways you can have status, but let's first enumerate its possible benefits like we did with money:

1. The plain value boost you get from being high status. This has potential to be a lot bigger than the money one.
2. You have a potentially huge boost in access to girls, because you don't have to approach them for them to hear about you. Girls will see your content and even dm you or find a way to meet you first.
3. The girl already knows she likes what she's seen of you. She already knows things about you, has read things you've written, has seen you on video, etc. She already has an idea of you in her head, and feels like she knows you somewhat.
4. If you have preselection, she feels like she has to move quickly with you to prevent another girl from getting you.
5. She can brag to her friends about sleeping with you or compete with them over you. Sleeping with you is already a win for her that validates her.
6. You have access to places/events with hotter girls and better ratios

Some of these benefits can be really huge. Even some guys in positions you might not think of as "high status" can get huge boosts from 2&3 just through having an audience (for example, a young tiktoker making funny and relatable videos)

Possible cons:
1. Showing provider value again. The girl wants to lock you down to show you off as a boyfriend or be part of your lifestyle. Having preselection helps mitigate this somewhat, and I don't think this is as much of an issue here as with the money case.
2. Similar to money, you attract girls who want to use you for your connections or access.
3. Crazy girls can go after your image and try to smear you if they feel you wronged them.


You can't just hide status from people the way you can with money either. If a girl dm's you on ig because she wants a shot with you or you meet her somewhere related to your status, you can't hide that from her. Of course cold approach girls won't know, but it's really easy to show with social media.

Why wouldn't you take advantage of this? Raising your value is almost always desirable, and there are so many advantages you can claim with status. If you're having a lot of issues with girls trying to use you, then sure, adjust your approach. Otherwise, this is such a powerful tool to have. It's almost essential with some girls as well.