Might Be Finished for a While

[AsianPersuasion]

First off, I'd like to write an update on what's been going on to sort of explain this hiatus from active game...

These last few months have been among the best of my life. I went from being a virgin to having sex around 15 times a week with my new lover, and finally got to implement everything that I've been learning from Girls Chase. Despite both of us still considering this a casual relationship, we've both told each other "I love you" (huge violation of the rules, I know,) and the passion and emotions that came from this made for some crazy self-development on my part these last few months.

Despite being my first sexual relationship, thanks to what I learned on Girls Chase, I was able to:

- Be a good conversationalist, deep-dive, tease, chase frame, flirt, and challenge
- Bring her home, close, and lay
- Maintain such a casual relationship with a girl who usually gets bored with her men in about a month
- Avoid possessiveness, neediness, clinginess, and jealousy.
- Go from a virgin, to one of her best lovers, to her best lover, despite the girl being quite experienced.
- Give her the best oral sex she's ever had right off the bat
- Lead the relationship
- Do many other things I probably remembered unconsciously

Bottom line, this is the first time I've ever been able to implement everything that I've learned on Girls Chase and the pick up community, and it makes me glad that I took the time to read EVERYTHING. It paid off extremely well.

However, being with this girl also made me notice how smoothly we clicked and made me wonder why that's never happened before. The girls I met via day game were always either around my age or a bit younger. I couldn't talk to them about dreams or ambitions because they 99% of the time they either had none or weren't serious about it, and anything that deviated from the most basic of basic conversation flew over their heads... Ordinary to semi-ordinary pasts, no career goals, and no interest in anything beyond what the average person does... Despite all the deep diving that I had been working on, I found there really wasn't much depth for me to dive. Bleh...

Then I moved to college, and suddenly, I found that I got along with girls that were 21 or 22 far better than any girls at my age. Deep diving, flirting, teasing, chase frames... I suddenly was able to implement them to a much higher degree than I ever had. The problem was that all of them were in committed relationships, everyone watches for their reputation in a small town, and I wasn't experienced enough to get around that anyway.

Then my lover... Not only was she 22, her IQ was higher than the norm by 3 standard deviations (around 145). Here was a girl who could match me in conversation, and with whom I could talk with for hours and hours about ambitions, dreams, philosophy, human nature, and the past. Even for the other girls that were about her age, I still had to dumb down my conversation for them to a degree, but for once, I didn't have to. Our initial interaction that led to us becoming lovers wasn't just smooth, it was fun, and the chemistry is still going strong. We're both the first people we've ever met that could keep up with the other mentally, and I'm the first that could keep up with her physically. At first, I thought I had gotten past a huge learning curve and that my interactions with other women would henceforth be far smoother, but that wasn't the case... Interactions with girls my age were still lacking tremendously in depth, I found them even more dull, and there was still almost no chemistry beyond playful banter. Everything they say sounds like incredibly common sense stuff, and everything I lead them into that has any bit of depth goes right over their heads. My chemistry with this girl and other older women only served to highlight the mediocrity of the demographic I usually have available, and now, talking to them feels like I'm talking to a goldfish.

For this reason, I think I'm going to take a hiatus from active day gaming for a while... I have no problem going up to a girl if I really feel like it at the moment, but I won't actively go out to practice. I believe the girls in my age range have some serious catching up to do, and until then, the high probability of having them waste my time with dull, shallow conversation isn't really worth the effort and risk of being kicked out of places. I'll be waiting for them to gain some depth while I work on other areas of myself that need improvement... After I can frequent bars and lounges, I take it this'll get more fun

I want to thank Chase for creating the website that housed my growth, and all the writers that I've learned and will continue to learn from. Also, thank you all of you on this forum who have been reading my stuff, offering your advice and your encouragement. I wouldn't be able to explain how much progress this has given me if I wanted to. This has been fun

 

[Franco]

AP,

I'm always glad to see success stories like this. It's good to hear that the information here has helped you achieve heights you didn't realize you could reach. The forum (hopefully) will be around when you decide to return.

Enjoy the college ladies.

- Franco

 

[Hector Papi Castillo]

Asian Persuasion,

Hell. Fucking. Yeah.

I can tell you that dating a really cool/hot chick will take your game to a whole other level. You'll see what it feels like to truly be the prize in the room as every guy stares at you jealousy and every girl stares at you in lust. It's a game-changer for sure.

Just make sure you never think that the "game" is over, by any means. Read the relationship boards and the articles on relationships. They're a WHOLE different beast and if you want to keep this chick's dickthirst, you're gonna need to learn a lot, because a chick who is as cool as you say she is - she's being hounded after. ALWAYS. When I dated my ex, a super hot and intelligent girl in the hottest sorority on campus, you can bet I witnessed hoards of men chasing after her.

The most important lesson I can teach you: don't get jealous. EVER. Never show jealousy and never admit it. E.V.E.R. It is the wail of the weak man and the death of her attraction for you.

As this relationship progresses, you will become a stronger man and supremely confident in yourself. It's imperative that you understand you're improving not necessarily because of her, but because of what she's teaching you. This is a distinction that I only recently learned and is the hallmark of someone who's about to swag into mastery, because it is the foundation of "I Am The Prize" and every derivative of outcome independence.

But have fun! You're going to fuck like rabbits, be the happiest you've probably ever been, and see another side of life. Just know that it gets even better if you keep striving

Proud of you and happy for you,

Hector

 

[Big Daddy]

The most important lesson I can teach you: don't get jealous. EVER. Never show jealousy and never admit it. E.V.E.R. It is the wail of the weak man and the death of her attraction for you.

I read a post Ricardus wrote on jealousy after you recommendation on other thread sometime ago, before you began to write here and shit, where he says that:

Show some healthy jealousy… it will bring you closer together. This is another one of those counterintuitive things, but if you communicate it from a place of confidence, it can be VERY powerful.

The next weekend, she had a plane ticket booked to San Diego, where she was about to stay at her ex boyfriend’s house… what would you do?

Would you pretend that you don’t care?

Would you get jealous and tell her not to go?

How about the golden middle path… I ended up telling her that I didn’t like the idea of that very much.

She mockingly asked me: “Are you jealous, Ricardus?”

And I calmly replied: “Yeah, if you’re going to spend a night with your ex, of course I’ll be jealous.”

Believe it or not… she still brought this up MONTHS later. She said that was the defining moment of the relationship… the first time she realized that me and her could really be more than just a casual hookup. And it ended up being one of the closest and most meaningful relationships of our lives.

And keep one thing in mind… this is key.

THE ALPHA MALE MARKS HIS TERRITORY.

I'm confused... is it a good thing or not to show some jealousy?

 

[Franco]

Big Daddy,

I'm confused... is it a good thing or not to show some jealousy?

I'm actually not sure I really agree with Ricardus's choice from that article as being the "best" method to use jealousy. Granted, it seems like the girl was probably head over heels for him at this point anyway because it seems like she was trying to make him jealous to spark him to commit to her -- and that's exactly what he did. She actually won that small power struggle.

If you're running things well in your casual relationship, a little "power struggle" loss like that isn't going to stop her from wanting to be with you long-term/exclusive if that's what she actually wants. But the "don't care" route is actually better if you know how to frame it correctly; the problem with most guys it that they try to "flaunt" the don't care route as if they are ACKNOWLEDGING that her seeing her ex-boyfriend is an act of defiance, and that they don't give a shit (i.e. a jealous boyfriend might roll his eyes or throw his hands in the air and say, "sounds good! Have fun!" and then walk away with an obvious feeling of contempt toward her). Or, some guys just completely ignore it as if they didn't hear her say it (i.e. the girl might say, "Yeah, my ex will actually be there for the night, so I'll be seeing him too" and the guy will respond, "cool stuff. Have fun!" which makes it sound like he isn't even acknowledging what she just told him).

A better way to handle it would be like so:

Her: Yeah, my ex will actually be there for the night, so I'll be seeing him too.
You: Oh really? When's the last time you spoke to him?
Her: It's been awhile, so it should be interesting.
You: Haha, I see. Hopefully things don't get too awkward. Either way, have fun on your trip, babe! Let me know how things go.

(At this point, she can choose to realize that you aren't jealous one a bit, and that generally is enough information for her to know that you are the more dominant and less needy man. On the other hand, she COULD choose to challenge your reaction here, which is still fine. That might look like this

Her: ...are you not mad or jealous or anything that I'll be seeing him there?
Him: No, I trust you. Are you telling me there is a reason I should be mad or jealous?

And 9 times out of 10, her answer will be...

Her: No! I was just wondering. Thanks for trusting me, babe.
Him: Of course. *smile*

The thing to keep in mind here is that, if she's TELLING you about it, then there's a reason she's telling you, and it's likely NOT to sleep with her ex. If she wanted to sleep with her ex, she wouldn't tell you he was going to be there so that she could leave that opportunity open for herself. If she's telling you about it, it means she wants to see YOUR reaction and gain some power in the relationship (meaning she sees you as dominant and is testing you, just as any woman who is in love with a man will do).

That's just my take on it. But like I said earlier, if the girl is head over heels for you and you haven't really been needy/jealous in any other ways, Ricardus's method is probably fine as well.

- Franco

 

[Hector Papi Castillo]

Franco just nailed it on the head.

There are "good" ways to handle situations, like Ricardus' route with this particular situation.

And then there are "superb" ways to handle situations, like my recommendation and Franco's brilliant elaboration.

Good will get you lays, relationships, and outperform most men.

Superb will get you quicker lays, hotter and longer relationships, and outperform even the most elite men in the world.

Go big or go home,

Hector

 

[Chase]

AP-

Congrats on the girl, man. You ground it out and put the work in - you've earned a nice reprieve with a gal you really click with.

You'll find as you get older younger women get easier... they simply need a much firmer hand, which it's harder to give when you're younger. Sometimes you almost have to tell them what to say or think and see which ones roll with it and which ones don't, more or less... just what happens with people who haven't decided on what their own opinions or preferences are yet.

As for the jealousy scenario - just be careful with using statements like "I trust you". To the girl who's in love with you and hoping you'll stop her and pull her back in and give her romance, this can be a major disappointment; to the girl who's free-spirited and impulsive and follows her heart, it can be a permission slip. The test here isn't just "Is he going to lose his shirt?" (which is part of it) but also "Does he care enough to and have the strength to stop me?" It's really a desire to feel your power over her more than anything, more than gaining any power.

Chase

 

[ray_zorse]

AP also think it's great you found someone you click with, however after thinking about it for some days I want to point out that you're taking a rather elitist tone, I noticed this with Estate as well after he went through a breakup and had trouble replacing her, he found all his interactions to be empty and he couldn't click with girls, like you he felt they were immature and there was nothing to connect on. However, to me this smells like one-itis and that you're not trying hard enough/aren't hungry enough. I can't actually think of a girl who I haven't discovered something interesting about with enough persistence, there was one chick who seemed as boring as hell (worked in a coffee shop which I'd frequent, I asked her out after about the 2nd or 3rd time and got polite excuses, however we remained friends)... every week I'd persist and persist, thinking "this chick is as boring as hell, all she ever does is work and sleep, when am I gonna find something interesting about her?"... the only thing we could really connect on is the fact she was Vietnamese and could cook Vietnamese food. But eventually she opened up and I discovered she'd done a business degree at a local university, had an Aussie boyfriend who likes Vietnamese food, and various other things... still not sure why she ended up in the job she did, but my point is basically that nobody is ever that boring, there simply must be something they get excited about, unless they are genuinely mentally retarded. So I think you're being unnecessarily elitist and need to try harder.
Ray

 

[Big Daddy]

As for the jealousy scenario - just be careful with using statements like "I trust you". To the girl who's in love with you and hoping you'll stop her and pull her back in and give her romance, this can be a major disappointment; to the girl who's free-spirited and impulsive and follows her heart, it can be a permission slip. The test here isn't just "Is he going to lose his shirt?" (which is part of it) but also "Does he care enough to and have the strength to stop me?" It's really a desire to feel your power over her more than anything, more than gaining any power.

I was under the impression this was the case in a considerable amount of situations. Here's a personal example:

Not long ago I was with a girl who was relatively submissive, but she was young and her last boyfriend was needy and a control freak so she spent most of her teens not going out and once she broke up with him, she wanted to make up for the wasted time and go from nerdy girl to party girl (just trying; she'd never became a real wild, party girl, but would keep going out for a while, couple of years maybe, and "enjoying life" before getting tired of it and go back to watch movies at home on Friday nights), which I can relate because that's what happened to me as well.

I had no doubt she'd prefer me as a boyfriend over going out any time of the day when we were in a casual relationship, but since I didn't want to be in a LTR, I just kept going out and acting as if I didn't care (I did care a little bit, but way less than she cared). So both of us would keep going out and acting as if we didn't care that the other was going out - it essentially became a jealousy power struggle. I could tell this couldn't be healthy if I wanted to pursue a LTR, but I didn't know how to stop it and I knew that if I persisted she'd would lose the battle because she liked me a lot and is super jealous, and that's precisely what happened. I stopped seeing her not long after that because he started pleasing me/framing a serious relationship/trying to make me commit very hard and I didn't want a LTR at the time, but if I did get into one, I think it would be a wreck.

I'm certain I'd get glimpses of her wanting to go out, giving me the opportunity to command the fuck out of her and say that she isn't going anywhere. But I couldn't and still can't find a single way of framing this without looking like I'm a whining pussy. A way of saying that I'm not OK with her going out because I don't this to turn into a game where both of us act as if it's not a big deal when we both know it's draining and a pain the in ass. Not long-term suitable, really.

 

[Franco]

Chase,

As for the jealousy scenario - just be careful with using statements like "I trust you". To the girl who's in love with you and hoping you'll stop her and pull her back in and give her romance, this can be a major disappointment; to the girl who's free-spirited and impulsive and follows her heart, it can be a permission slip

I actually see what you're saying here, and this makes sense to me. Although in this case, I'd say that this would be an issue with screening. It seems to me like the first girl would be too submissive/insecure to be let down "super" hard by me saying something like that -- I would expect some worry on her part though. The second girl is either (A) too free-spirited for long-term material anyway or (B) isn't so in love with you that she'd consider other sexual prospects/possibilities even after she brought it up to you and you mentioned that you trust her -- that could be because you weren't the most dominant man in her life, or it could be that she's in her sexual awakening stage at the moment.

I guess I can't really see my girl falling into either of those two categories in this scenario, but I've definitely met many girls that probably would. If you screen for a girl who's secure enough not to get heartbroken over every little thing you do but also screen for a girl who's faithful/conservative enough to not risk her great relationship for a roll in the hay, then I don't think it's something you have to worry about. But some guys prefer more submissive girls and some guys prefer more free-spirited women; just keep in mind what type of girl you're dating when she asks you questions like this so you can take into account what the best answer will be.

Big Daddy,

I had no doubt she'd prefer me as a boyfriend over going out any time of the day when we were in a casual relationship, but since I didn't want to be in a LTR, I just kept going out and acting as if I didn't care (I did care a little bit, but way less than she cared). So both of us would keep going out and acting as if we didn't care that the other was going out - it essentially became a jealousy power struggle. I could tell this couldn't be healthy if I wanted to pursue a LTR, but I didn't know how to stop it and I knew that if I persisted she'd would lose the battle because she liked me a lot and is super jealous, and that's precisely what happened. I stopped seeing her not long after that because he started pleasing me/framing a serious relationship/trying to make me commit very hard and I didn't want a LTR at the time, but if I did get into one, I think it would be a wreck.

Well, it seems like the main issue here has to do with what you said in the first sentence. Since you communicated to her that you "didn't want to be in a LTR," she was trying to mask her feelings for you by doing things that showed that she was independent and okay with it (all the while hoping that maybe you would eventually fall into an LTR with her if she just played the independent card and was "cool" with letting you go out when you wanted to). But if you keep doing it over and over again and she's not seeing progress, then it turns into a power struggle.

It's a bit of a different situation you're talking about here when you've communicated to the girl that you aren't looking for anything serious. Once you communicate that (either by words or by actions), if she still wants you, she has to devise a different gameplan that she thinks will work. In this case, since this girl was rather submissive, she decided to take the passive approach and just "let you do your thing" while she continued to see you and pretended to enjoy "doing her own thing" so that she didn't come across as needy to you. This is fine if you really did not plan on taking her into an LTR, but if that is your plan, then it's somewhat detrimental to do this because you're creating more of a "competitive" vibe with her rather than a "team-oriented" vibe.

- Franco

 

[Big Daddy]

@Franco

Oh, that explains everything. It felt exactly like a competition where none of us would win in the end. My main problem is demonstrate how I feel out of fear that it may seem needy and acting as if I don't care way too much. So for instance, let's say I'm not OK with a girl going to XYZ party for whatever reason. In my mind, I have two options in this scenario:

(A) maintain a somewhat low effort tone and pretend I don't care and let her go (which I think it's closer to your example) or
(B) explicitly saying that I don't want her to go and she stays or goes anyways.

Since the stakes on option (B) are pretty high - if she goes after I explicitly told her I wouldn't like it, I blatantly just lost a huge battle, she will see me as a weak man and I'd probably feel like a weak man - I always stick with option (A). I feel there's great power in (B) - she wants and have the option to go, but just because I told her I wouldn't like it, she submits and stays... man, I'd get a massive testosterone boost - but I don't know how to frame option (B) powerfully, maintaining sprezzatura, even if really want to go with (B). Is there a way to do it correctly or I should swallow it because it may come as needy?

 

[Franco]

Big Daddy,

I feel there's great power in (B) - she wants and have the option to go, but just because I told her I wouldn't like it, she submits and stays... man, I'd get a massive testosterone boost - but I don't know how to frame option (B) powerfully, maintaining sprezzatura, even if really want to go with (B). Is there a way to do it correctly or I should swallow it because it may come as needy?

The thing with option (B) is that there has to be a legitimately good reason that you don't want her to go, and you have to explicitly explain that to her really clearly. The thing with stuff like this is that there usually isn't a really good reason to not let her go, and 19 times out of 20 your reason is going to come across to her as "restricting her freedom." It may not always come from a place of neediness from you, but it's going to be interpreted as needy and/or controlling by her. You lose points with her if she comes to this conclusion.

It actually took me a minute to even think of a good example, but something like this is where you could use (B) in a strong way:

Her: "I want to go to Dave's party this weekend."
You: "Alice, I understand why you want to go to this party, but I would really prefer if you don't go. The last time Dave threw a party, the cops were called because he had underage drinkers there, and people were doing drugs in his bedroom. I think one guy got arrested. I don't want you getting involved in any of that mess or anything bad happening to you. He's not a great influence. I don't mind you going out with your girls, but I would prefer you guys do something else."

I'm not even sure that's a great example -- it sounds a slightly contrived. But I explicitly stated my reason of concern for her going to the party, and it comes from a place of "I'm concerned about your well-being" rather than a place of "I'm worried you'll be drunk around other dudes."

It's really hard to think of any good ways to stop her unless you have a really good reason to, though. I pretty much let my girlfriend go to everything (and she goes to parties and clubs pretty often; 80-90% of the time she goes with me, but occasionally I'm out of town or she's out of town and she ends up going out with friends). Generally, what you need to look out for is whether or not she invites you to these things and wants you to come -- if she seems like she's taking time that she could be spending with you (because you're available) and using it to hang out with friends instead, then that's a red flag. However, if it seems like she genuinely wants to do things with you first and then finds out your busy, then that's a different story.

- Franco

 

[Big Daddy]

But I explicitly stated my reason of concern for her going to the party, and it comes from a place of "I'm concerned about your well-being" rather than a place of "I'm worried you'll be drunk around other dudes."

Hahahaha, you guys seem to read my mind sometimes A lot of times I was worried because of this. Way less now - but it happens once or twice.

I was thinking about something like she wants to go out clubbing and I want her to stay home and watch a movie instead because I'm in the mood for it (or any other whatever reason). But I guess that has more to do with my persuasion ability than dominance since there are too much variables against me (maybe she is in the mood to go, maybe she had scheduled with her friends before, etc). I'm working on leading/steering/convincing/persuading people to the outcomes I desire (both subtly and explicitly), so that's why I went quite in-depth with this scenario.

 

[Franco]

BD,

I was thinking about something like she wants to go out clubbing and I want her to stay home and watch a movie instead because I'm in the mood for it (or any other whatever reason).

Yeah, that's the thing about girls who like to party or club often -- generally if you want them as girlfriends, you have be at least slightly more of a party guy than she is a party girl. For every 9 times she wants to go out clubbing, you want to go 10. So in other words, she should generally be the one asking you to stay in and watch a movie, even though you might want to go out. This swaps the dynamic, and she's the one trying to get you stay in and be with her rather than the other way around.

It's tough to deal with a situation where the girl wants to go out more than you do because it only leaves you in a chasing position; or if you don't go out, she either (A) starts to get bored with you because she feels like you're not on her level and always want to stay home or (B) causes you to chase after her and be the one to tell her to stay home instead. It's not fun being the one who has to try to put the lasso on the party animal!

This is just a dynamic I've noticed over time having dated a girl that loves to party and being around people that love to party -- the girls who are always partying/clubbing a ton but still chasing their boyfriends are the ones who still party less than the boyfriend does, even if it's by a marginal amount. So the best thing you can do is find a girl who is slightly on a lower level than you so that she's always the one trying to contain you, rather than the other way around.

EDIT: I should note that, if you ARE the guy who parties more than her and then suddenly she wants to go out and you don't on an odd moment, she's much more likely to be happy staying in with you. She thinks, "oh, he just wants to have a night in with me instead of go out?! Well that's fine with me, too!" And this is usually because she thinks of all the times that she's been on the other end of the rope trying to get you to spend time with her, and she's happy that she gets a night with you where you instigated it for once.

- Franco

 

[Big Daddy]

Yeah, after this conversation I came to the conclusion that you can only lead/change girls up to a point. I frequently try to understand why something happened the way it did and what I could've done differently for a more desirable outcome, but a considerable amount of the time that has more to do with screening than other factors.

That last note is a gem. I never really thought about it that way. I'll be way more comfortable hanging with the girl instead of going out in that scenario knowing it will do more harm than good (every now and then)!

 

[mb1]

Hey, your story is amazing. Does she know about your inexperience? I had a similar situation but kept up an appearance of experience (thought never lied about it). I'm very curious how an experienced girl would react despite you obviously continuing to meet her needs.

Thanks

 

[GeneralFap]

What the hell was Ricardus thinking? His girl went to her ex boyfriend's house...what did he think she was going to do at his house? Play ping pong? She probably rode him every day she was there.