FU Most painful L I've ever taken

[Kaida]

Spoiler: Context

This was yesterday at a small pool party with the people from my new track team. Pool was small, very small venue. <15 people. A hot tub was there next to the pool as well. We’re all 16-17 years old keep in mind.

All the guys including me are having fun throwing water balloons and dicking around when suddenly, this black girl in a bikini with a holy jiggly booty walked in with her friends (I was using my peripheral vision to look, so you can imagine the jiggle).

I see her at every track practice, so its not like it’s my first time seeing her. I’ve just never seen dat ass in full view like this before.


She had an alright face, but was quite frankly the best looking at the party + I was horny so naturally I tried for her.


She didn't give me any obvious approach openings, so I didnt officially "open" her at first. I simply kept pinging her by moving close to her sometimes saying something clever + some incidental touch and getting some quick compliance. She was feeling it a little and gave me some energy back, though not too much.

I could just never get that magical bubble between us going, which is one of my sticking points.

After a few times of this, I could sense I maybe was doing it a little too much, as i could feel that she was recoiling a bit and scooting away a liiitle bit when I got close so I backed off and stopped pinging her until I was ready to open or she gave me a signal.

(Real FR starts here)

BigBooty was sitting in the pool right next to her friend, and I could feel that this was an opening. I nonchalantly sat down close enough to BB that our legs were touching and starting talking about something trivial to the friend next to her. Surprisingly, she didn't recoil and just let our legs touch.

Soon after our convo died naturally, the friend left leaving me and BB close to each other. I made a mental decision to be focused on escalating touch since its the simplest way I can get this bitch wet, plus I know my verbal game is horrendous.

All the other partygoers were on the other side of the pool racing after BBs friend left. I used that as a conversation point.

Spoiler: Race Convo

Me: (Pointing at racers) I cant imagine doing that. I cant swim at all.

BB: Really? Wow. Why not?

Me: You dont see my complexion? (Holds up backhand)

BB: (Giggle) Wooow racist

Me: Can you?

BB: Yeah….

At this point, the guys that were racing arrived at our side, interrupting our conversation. She hopped off the wall we were sitting on to let them touch the wall. The problem was tho, we were no longer touching.

Cant have that.

At this point I was like ain’t no fucking way we’re gonna stop now. We just got the interaction going! I’ve had too many girls slip through my fingers recently.

So I made a probably too-bold move and grabbed her by her hips firmly but gently and brought her closer to me so we were touching again, even closer than before.

She surprisingly did not recoil, likely because she saw the move as protective since there was a lot of chaos going around.
Quite frankly as long as it gets me closer to the cheeks I dont care. I kept my hand there for half the time we were talking.

Conversation continued:

Spoiler: Convo

Me: I bet you’d drown in here

BB: Race me then

I was debating racing her because I didnt know how it was gonna turn out. I didnt rlly care tho because it would contribute to a playful vibe.

Me: Bring it.

She absolutely beat my ass in the race, everybody saw and was making fun of me - nothing too bad though. I handled it nonchalantly, though I was a bit afraid of looking incompetent.

Me: You’re good wow. You swim?

BB: Mhm

Me: For real? How many sports u do

BB: 3

Me: What sports

BB: Swim, Basketball, and Track

Me: Wow, I like athletic girls (Attempt to qualify)

She wasn’t making eye contact tho, making it hard to create that bubble. I cut the conversation there and just kept having fun and shit cuz it is a party after all. Talked and touched some of the other less attractive girls and messed around.


Fast forward an hour and it started getting nice and dark enough for a sexual move. I’m sitting in the pool alone at this point with some dominant body language. I was in a chill mood so I wasnt really talking to ppl.

BigBooty was standing on the side of the pool messing with her friends. She was trying to get the donut floaty of the pool but I randomly felt like this was a good time to get some compliance. It ended up snowballing into something really nice

Spoiler: Good Stuff

Me: Hey BB, lemme see that donut floaty

She puts up a hold on motion, jumps in it or something real quick, then passes it to me.

She then swims next to the seat, keeping her hand on the seat to help her float because its the deep end. I’m just holding the floaty, not really using it. I can tell shes tryna get on the seat so i gently push it away.

She tells me to scoot over so she can squeeze in the right corner.

Im thinking: Theres a shit ton of space to my left, but she wants to sit in this tight corner with me? All alone?

At this point in my mind I’m like “yeah, she wants my cock” so I scooted over for her and went into touch overdrive.

Got my whole side touching her “incidentally” and I’m starting to push limits on what she’ll let me do using the reference point of me holding her hips earlier.

Spoiler: Touch Overdrive

Fast forward a few minutes and now the bubble is finally created. My hand is around her back and I’m feeling on her thighs and shes just letting me.

I could feel I was going to have attainability problems soon, which is my biggest sticking point, so I attempted to qualify her by saying I like people who hustle and get their shit done when she was talking about her past jobs. Kind of a shitty attempt.

Idk how we got to this conversation but now shes talking about how her mom likes her brother more than her and some other bs about how her dad is on vacation. I wasnt rlly listening to be honest

Maybe it’s because of the sexual tension she was feeling, but now shes talking A LOT and reallly reallly fast. Only occasionally turning to me and saying “you get it?” in a high voice and resuming her rant. This went on for ~ 6 mins

She isn’t really making eye contact with me either, just staring into the distance while talking. I didnt feel any real tension for some reason, I was just laser focused on getting her niagra falls flowing.

Weirdly, she wasn’t reacting to my touch at all. She just kept talking a LOT and FAST (maybe that’s her reacting?) while looking at the other side of the pool while I look at her.



A brief thought entered my mind that maybe I was killing the tension by touching so much, and maybe I should fractionate, but I ignored it because last time I did that it killed my seduction.

I’m really just mhmm-ing my way through her bullshit story while i continue escalating on her. I slowly move my hand to her ass and grab the side. Slowly made my way to that fatty V part between her thigh and vagina and just move my thumb and hand in it.

I make it a point to look her in the eyes and comment on something she said while I touch her, so I can come across as confident as possible.

Im hard as fuck at this point and I’m tempted to just flick her bikini underwear and see her reaction, but my gut says that would be too far as we’re still in a public place. I dont even realize that the ppl are gone, only thing I’m focused on is that ass.

The conversation dies off after her rant. I probably should have asked another question here, but the rant she was on was kind of negative so I didnt want to encourage the negative emotions. I let it die.

My hand is still rubbing on her ass while the bubble fades. 15 minutes have passed. To our surprise everybody has left and is in the hot tub behind us.

My mind races to try and find a slick way to get this now (apparently?) horny girl in my car. Unfortunately a few seconds later, she says “Lets go to the hot tub”.

Fuck. Didn’t lead.

As I got out of the pool I waited till she turned around before adjusting my diamond-grade boner in the water. Shit was hurting.

Now we’re walking to the tub, and my goodness it’s packed to the brim. Barely any room at all.

I try to get a seat next to her naturally but to my surprise, she doesnt try and coordinate and sit next to me. She sits next to her friends which confused me. I would be trying too hard to squeeze next to her now.

I went next to my friends, but I felt like I lost a little. I knew this wasnt the best position to be in and felt it, but I had no idea how to naturally fix our positions.

Spoiler: Hot Tub

Then, suddenly, my friend, a W fucking wingman, told my friend to my right to move so BB could sit next to me. Apparently everyone already saw us alone in the pool and knew what was going on.

While BB was moving over everyone was like “Ooooh” (fucking teenagers) which I didnt like because it added too much pressure to the whole thing but hey, now I can resume touching.

The hot tub was dark, so even tho there was a shit ton of people in the tub I could still covertly touch under the water.

I went a little bolder this time and took her entire leg and put it over mine (+1 dominance) and started rubbing her thighs like I was doing before. I was talking to the people around and making jokes + socializing with the group so I dont appear too needy while still rubbing on her so she doesn’t think I forgot her.

After a few minutes, I suddenly realized that this tub was the worst possible place to be in. I’ve got a horny girl who I’m sure wants my cock in a crowd of people watching our every move. No sneaking out.

If I wanted to extract and fuck right there , I should have done so in the pool. People would have definitely seen us (which is what made me hesitate), but it still would have been 100x more covert than this shit. Cant even get up without having to ask 4 people to move.

After someone made a joke about people getting together at this party ,I thought this was a perfect time to set a discretion frame. I turned and whispered into BBs ear

Me: (whispering) I dont really like how everybody is watching us, I like keeping my stuff private.

BB: Yeah

Me: How about you?

BB: Yeah I like privacy too

Score. Now to screen for logistics. I asked her if she drove here, and unfortunately she said she was leaving with her friend. Conversation died and I resumed touching her and socializing.

A few minutes later she moved her leg off me. I was probably touching too much. I noticed and calmly took my hand off of her as to not appear needy and kept socializing. She then scooted a little closer so I resumed, albeit not as intensely as before.

Fast forward 10 minutes later and shes getting out of the tub ready to leave. I’m horny as fuck and hard as carbon so I wasn’t gonna let her leave without at the very least getting her number. I should have taken her to my car while we were in the pool and fucked her in there.


I got my phone from the bag while she was in a group of her friends. The way I walked up to them was kind of awkward. I was hovering a bit and then I just tapped BB to move a little away from her group.

Spoiler: Shift In Mood

She followed, and I wordlessly showed her my phone with the contact open, implying that she should type in her number. She laughed and took the phone.

This is where shit shifted.

She put her finger on her chin and started playfully deliberating whether to put in her phone number or not.

I guess me handing her my phone made her fully process that this may become a real thing, so now she’s pulling out her “hard to get” tips and tricks she read off fucking teen vouge.

BB: (smiling) Hmmm, I dont knowwwww

Me: Oh I know you know (points at the phone)

I turn away and let myself get distracted by the ppl still in the hot tub so I dont look like I care too much She’s dragging this “hard to get” shit for too long (~ 2 mins) and while I did a good job of not showing it its starting to frustrate me.

Suddenly, my brother calls me on my phone and BB hands it to me. I honestly debated just declining because I was in an impatient mood but that would have looked like I cared about BB way too much, so I answered the call and tried to make it short.

After the call, she was still right next to me getting some stuff ready so I handed my phone to her again with the contact open wordlessly. And to my frustration She STILL plays the games

BB: Im not surrree

Me: Yes u are

BB: Yeah but not gonna lieee im talking to someone already (like I give a fuck?)

I do not react at all. I simply shrug my shoulders and say I dont mind. She hesitates a little bit more before finally trying to put the goddamn number in the phone.

Unfortunately my phone was wet so it was going haywire. Opening and closing apps, deleting messages. Shit was weird.

She resorted to just putting the number into the message bar, which was fine with me. I saved it in a notepad as well just in case.

I took my phone and let her pack up, but suddenly remembered I forgot to seed the date. So I waited close to the door so I had another reason to say goodbye to her again.


As she was walking out, I told her bye and that I’d text her about meeting up somewhere else.

She giggles and says “we’ll see” on some bs like I wasn’t just grabbing her ass a few minutes ago. I just ignored that.

Fast forward ~ 90 minutes later, I’m at home after getting chewed out by parents for being back so late. I open my phone looking for BigBooty’s number.

Spoiler: The Real Fuck Up

I look for it in messages


Nowhere.


Oh well, I have a backup in my notepad so I open that up to look for it.


Gone.


Turns out, the water in my phone fucked it up so much that it deleted the note. I didnt even see it in my recently deleted.

I was extremely frustrated for a few minutes before I realized I have her snapchat through the track group chat we have.

I hate texting on snapchat because girls my age literally get 50 guys snapping them a second. Meanwhile on imessage they really only text their family and close friends. Technically less competition.

I could literally sense some bullshit was going to happen, but I had to do something to get the number

Spoiler: Snapchat Convo

Me: (Voice message) Ngl send ur contact again because the water fucked up my phone and the number disappeared.

BigBooty: *Laughing Emojis* Give me 1 good reason why
——————-

This bullshit again. Like bitch, you already gave me the number. I’m too horny for this

——————-
Me: We obviously both like each other, BB. We’ll see where this goes. Just send it already (last part said with some playful boredom/annoyance)

BB: Mmm but I for real got a nigga (aka dude she's talking to) though
——————

I dont think she’s lying, but I can also sense she’s on the fence and can still be convinced. I feel the tension and race a bit too fast to convince her. My next text was probably a bit too high effort

—————-

Me : (Text) ur chillin
(Text) I alr told you that I like privacy
(Voice Message) hey, aint nobody tying you down here. we're just gonna see where this goes.
_____________

Wayy too much effort, way too much into her frame. I knew immediately I sent it but it shows when you delete a message on snap. I believe it would be better than looking too calculating and deleting a message I previously sent.

To end the night off, this is what she said:

BB: nahhhhh. no hard feelings tho

FUCK

Me: (Text) aw. (ended conversation)

Spoiler: Afterthoughts

I dont think any of this would have happened if my phone didn't fuck up. That's just so unlucky.

One thing I also could have done is tease her a bit with my attention over snapchat before asking for the number, but all the blood that was supposed to be helping me think was in my dick. How can I go from feeling up a girls ass to her telling me no so quickly.

She gave me a hard no as well, so even though I see her at every track practice it's gonna be quite hard to reverse anything.

Man.

Lessons Learned from my dissection of this night (any more that you guys find in the comments would be deeply appreciated!):

1. Be a bit more dominant concerning getting her looking at me. Next time I'll put my finger on her chin and make her look at me. Increases tension, deepens the bubble, and increases attraction.

2. Lead stronger. Always have your eye on the ball and make sure you have a action plan to get your dick in her mouth if the place you're at makes it possible. I was having too much fun just playing with the cheeks instead of actually doing something

3. Stop trying to drag someone into a frame. Instead, set a frame and let her get sucked by your confidence in it.

4. Maybe make her earn it a bit more. Idk if my read is right here, but I didn't make her really earn much from me, I really just started feeling her up.

5+ . Anything else you guys have! (That is why I wrote the report after all)

 

[Skills]

Make sure you think couple of steps ahead, next time do what i recommend to text yourself from her phone or call yourself from her phone

 

[Kaida]

Make sure you think couple of steps ahead, next time do what i recommend to text yourself from her phone or call yourself from her phone

I'll definitely do that from now on

​

 

[Lobo]

What skills told you is huge. I lost a lay before because I walked a girl through a crowded area instead of a discreet one. Girl was a baddie too so ill never forgot how important it is to plan and have a strategy.

At the beginning outing, i always scout the area. See where the discreet spots are, how I'll be able to extract.

I remember going to a party under a bridge, and during a lull in the seduction i legit walked around for 10-15 min finding a spot where i could fuck the girl with nobody seeing us.

Doing that single handidly secured the lay. If i didn't do that, no matter how good my seduction was, i would not get the lay.

You had a girl in your hands who you thought was horny, if you had a pull strategy in place, you would have known where you could take her to fuck. Also which spots to avoid(the hot tub for example)

Also i didn't like her venting while escalating, seemed off, unless that's what she's like when flustered. Or maybe, the girl liked you but wanted some connection. Noticed there wasn't a lot of that here

 

[mist]

I've had a similar situation.

Some quickly written pointers

Extraction

• A really good move is to learn how to cement the little things she is doing and LEAD by example with discretion. Is she sticking around...comment on the vibe between you two or say she reminds you or your ex...is she doing something to move the seduction forward you can chase frame, reward, slight verbal nudge at what she is doing, etc. Things that make her conscious of what she's doing or what you’d like her to do .
• "Hey you were telling me this...walk with me real quick and tell me about it go to *XYZ isolation spot* " "Come check this out!" "That reminds me...come with me" Stuff like that...all types of extraction shiz. DWW says "Can I steal you?" which is good shit especially when the vibe is there

Interaction

• Also try to make her speak of positive things eventually or atleast guide her to end her threads positively while interacting. “That happened to you but you’re so much stronger.” Type shiz “ You made it though… you’re a survivor.” Y’know
• Start learning to getting away or build from social or better social/emotional...curious how social vs sexual it was actually? You seemed to give her frame verbally a lot as well
  Overall
• Meet more women so L’s start sticking to you less and you can extract more to learn from. You did a great job at the end imo doing just that. Can get even better the more you aim your frustration at learning than despair which you seem to be developing nicely.
• 
  If you want to flip this one, stay cool and get TONS of preselection and social proof. Better yet don’t waste time in a party environment grabbing her number especially if she shows openness to you touching her body… this wasn’t a public L and one no isn’t murder.
• Start looking to win. A number isn’t a win for long. Your real frustration isn’t because the contact fell through but because in the moment you didn’t have the tools, frame, or recall to make it happen… you’re at a party. You’ll get better at using those escalation windows…like the one at the pool (don’t waste time or take numbers when you have wide windows like me…that’ll be a real L)
• 
  Otherwise you did a good enough job with a lot of things imo. You have a bright road ahead of you if these are some of the things in your toolkit rn and imo this is far from an L you’ll remember. Trust me bro there are more W’s and L’s to come. Also this sounds like a rather fun interaction despite the ending head up champ…love chicks who have that energy.
• 
  Also plain face nice ass… :/ you’ll find that type again trust me. Don’t get blinded by her being the hottest girl there and getting you horny af haha…learn from it and be cool, going forward you never know if she’s swings back or you meet another like her or better. Your ego will survive friend

Thanks for your time. Peace
- Mist

 

[Will_V]

Spoiler: Context

This was yesterday at a small pool party with the people from my new track team. Pool was small, very small venue. <15 people. A hot tub was there next to the pool as well. We’re all 16-17 years old keep in mind.

All the guys including me are having fun throwing water balloons and dicking around when suddenly, this black girl in a bikini with a holy jiggly booty walked in with her friends (I was using my peripheral vision to look, so you can imagine the jiggle).

I see her at every track practice, so its not like it’s my first time seeing her. I’ve just never seen dat ass in full view like this before.


She had an alright face, but was quite frankly the best looking at the party + I was horny so naturally I tried for her.


She didn't give me any obvious approach openings, so I didnt officially "open" her at first. I simply kept pinging her by moving close to her sometimes saying something clever + some incidental touch and getting some quick compliance. She was feeling it a little and gave me some energy back, though not too much.

I could just never get that magical bubble between us going, which is one of my sticking points.

After a few times of this, I could sense I maybe was doing it a little too much, as i could feel that she was recoiling a bit and scooting away a liiitle bit when I got close so I backed off and stopped pinging her until I was ready to open or she gave me a signal.

(Real FR starts here)

BigBooty was sitting in the pool right next to her friend, and I could feel that this was an opening. I nonchalantly sat down close enough to BB that our legs were touching and starting talking about something trivial to the friend next to her. Surprisingly, she didn't recoil and just let our legs touch.

Soon after our convo died naturally, the friend left leaving me and BB close to each other. I made a mental decision to be focused on escalating touch since its the simplest way I can get this bitch wet, plus I know my verbal game is horrendous.

All the other partygoers were on the other side of the pool racing after BBs friend left. I used that as a conversation point.

Spoiler: Race Convo

Me: (Pointing at racers) I cant imagine doing that. I cant swim at all.

BB: Really? Wow. Why not?

Me: You dont see my complexion? (Holds up backhand)

BB: (Giggle) Wooow racist

Me: Can you?

BB: Yeah….

At this point, the guys that were racing arrived at our side, interrupting our conversation. She hopped off the wall we were sitting on to let them touch the wall. The problem was tho, we were no longer touching.

Cant have that.

At this point I was like ain’t no fucking way we’re gonna stop now. We just got the interaction going! I’ve had too many girls slip through my fingers recently.

So I made a probably too-bold move and grabbed her by her hips firmly but gently and brought her closer to me so we were touching again, even closer than before.

She surprisingly did not recoil, likely because she saw the move as protective since there was a lot of chaos going around.
Quite frankly as long as it gets me closer to the cheeks I dont care. I kept my hand there for half the time we were talking.

Conversation continued:

Spoiler: Convo

Me: I bet you’d drown in here

BB: Race me then

I was debating racing her because I didnt know how it was gonna turn out. I didnt rlly care tho because it would contribute to a playful vibe.

Me: Bring it.

She absolutely beat my ass in the race, everybody saw and was making fun of me - nothing too bad though. I handled it nonchalantly, though I was a bit afraid of looking incompetent.

Me: You’re good wow. You swim?

BB: Mhm

Me: For real? How many sports u do

BB: 3

Me: What sports

BB: Swim, Basketball, and Track

Me: Wow, I like athletic girls (Attempt to qualify)

She wasn’t making eye contact tho, making it hard to create that bubble. I cut the conversation there and just kept having fun and shit cuz it is a party after all. Talked and touched some of the other less attractive girls and messed around.


Fast forward an hour and it started getting nice and dark enough for a sexual move. I’m sitting in the pool alone at this point with some dominant body language. I was in a chill mood so I wasnt really talking to ppl.

BigBooty was standing on the side of the pool messing with her friends. She was trying to get the donut floaty of the pool but I randomly felt like this was a good time to get some compliance. It ended up snowballing into something really nice

Spoiler: Good Stuff

Me: Hey BB, lemme see that donut floaty

She puts up a hold on motion, jumps in it or something real quick, then passes it to me.

She then swims next to the seat, keeping her hand on the seat to help her float because its the deep end. I’m just holding the floaty, not really using it. I can tell shes tryna get on the seat so i gently push it away.

She tells me to scoot over so she can squeeze in the right corner.

Im thinking: Theres a shit ton of space to my left, but she wants to sit in this tight corner with me? All alone?

At this point in my mind I’m like “yeah, she wants my cock” so I scooted over for her and went into touch overdrive.

Got my whole side touching her “incidentally” and I’m starting to push limits on what she’ll let me do using the reference point of me holding her hips earlier.

Spoiler: Touch Overdrive

Fast forward a few minutes and now the bubble is finally created. My hand is around her back and I’m feeling on her thighs and shes just letting me.

I could feel I was going to have attainability problems soon, which is my biggest sticking point, so I attempted to qualify her by saying I like people who hustle and get their shit done when she was talking about her past jobs. Kind of a shitty attempt.

Idk how we got to this conversation but now shes talking about how her mom likes her brother more than her and some other bs about how her dad is on vacation. I wasnt rlly listening to be honest

Maybe it’s because of the sexual tension she was feeling, but now shes talking A LOT and reallly reallly fast. Only occasionally turning to me and saying “you get it?” in a high voice and resuming her rant. This went on for ~ 6 mins

She isn’t really making eye contact with me either, just staring into the distance while talking. I didnt feel any real tension for some reason, I was just laser focused on getting her niagra falls flowing.

Weirdly, she wasn’t reacting to my touch at all. She just kept talking a LOT and FAST (maybe that’s her reacting?) while looking at the other side of the pool while I look at her.



A brief thought entered my mind that maybe I was killing the tension by touching so much, and maybe I should fractionate, but I ignored it because last time I did that it killed my seduction.

I’m really just mhmm-ing my way through her bullshit story while i continue escalating on her. I slowly move my hand to her ass and grab the side. Slowly made my way to that fatty V part between her thigh and vagina and just move my thumb and hand in it.

I make it a point to look her in the eyes and comment on something she said while I touch her, so I can come across as confident as possible.

Im hard as fuck at this point and I’m tempted to just flick her bikini underwear and see her reaction, but my gut says that would be too far as we’re still in a public place. I dont even realize that the ppl are gone, only thing I’m focused on is that ass.

The conversation dies off after her rant. I probably should have asked another question here, but the rant she was on was kind of negative so I didnt want to encourage the negative emotions. I let it die.

My hand is still rubbing on her ass while the bubble fades. 15 minutes have passed. To our surprise everybody has left and is in the hot tub behind us.

My mind races to try and find a slick way to get this now (apparently?) horny girl in my car. Unfortunately a few seconds later, she says “Lets go to the hot tub”.

Fuck. Didn’t lead.

As I got out of the pool I waited till she turned around before adjusting my diamond-grade boner in the water. Shit was hurting.

Now we’re walking to the tub, and my goodness it’s packed to the brim. Barely any room at all.

I try to get a seat next to her naturally but to my surprise, she doesnt try and coordinate and sit next to me. She sits next to her friends which confused me. I would be trying too hard to squeeze next to her now.

I went next to my friends, but I felt like I lost a little. I knew this wasnt the best position to be in and felt it, but I had no idea how to naturally fix our positions.

Spoiler: Hot Tub

Then, suddenly, my friend, a W fucking wingman, told my friend to my right to move so BB could sit next to me. Apparently everyone already saw us alone in the pool and knew what was going on.

While BB was moving over everyone was like “Ooooh” (fucking teenagers) which I didnt like because it added too much pressure to the whole thing but hey, now I can resume touching.

The hot tub was dark, so even tho there was a shit ton of people in the tub I could still covertly touch under the water.

I went a little bolder this time and took her entire leg and put it over mine (+1 dominance) and started rubbing her thighs like I was doing before. I was talking to the people around and making jokes + socializing with the group so I dont appear too needy while still rubbing on her so she doesn’t think I forgot her.

After a few minutes, I suddenly realized that this tub was the worst possible place to be in. I’ve got a horny girl who I’m sure wants my cock in a crowd of people watching our every move. No sneaking out.

If I wanted to extract and fuck right there , I should have done so in the pool. People would have definitely seen us (which is what made me hesitate), but it still would have been 100x more covert than this shit. Cant even get up without having to ask 4 people to move.

After someone made a joke about people getting together at this party ,I thought this was a perfect time to set a discretion frame. I turned and whispered into BBs ear

Me: (whispering) I dont really like how everybody is watching us, I like keeping my stuff private.

BB: Yeah

Me: How about you?

BB: Yeah I like privacy too

Score. Now to screen for logistics. I asked her if she drove here, and unfortunately she said she was leaving with her friend. Conversation died and I resumed touching her and socializing.

A few minutes later she moved her leg off me. I was probably touching too much. I noticed and calmly took my hand off of her as to not appear needy and kept socializing. She then scooted a little closer so I resumed, albeit not as intensely as before.

Fast forward 10 minutes later and shes getting out of the tub ready to leave. I’m horny as fuck and hard as carbon so I wasn’t gonna let her leave without at the very least getting her number. I should have taken her to my car while we were in the pool and fucked her in there.


I got my phone from the bag while she was in a group of her friends. The way I walked up to them was kind of awkward. I was hovering a bit and then I just tapped BB to move a little away from her group.

Spoiler: Shift In Mood

She followed, and I wordlessly showed her my phone with the contact open, implying that she should type in her number. She laughed and took the phone.

This is where shit shifted.

She put her finger on her chin and started playfully deliberating whether to put in her phone number or not.

I guess me handing her my phone made her fully process that this may become a real thing, so now she’s pulling out her “hard to get” tips and tricks she read off fucking teen vouge.

BB: (smiling) Hmmm, I dont knowwwww

Me: Oh I know you know (points at the phone)

I turn away and let myself get distracted by the ppl still in the hot tub so I dont look like I care too much She’s dragging this “hard to get” shit for too long (~ 2 mins) and while I did a good job of not showing it its starting to frustrate me.

Suddenly, my brother calls me on my phone and BB hands it to me. I honestly debated just declining because I was in an impatient mood but that would have looked like I cared about BB way too much, so I answered the call and tried to make it short.

After the call, she was still right next to me getting some stuff ready so I handed my phone to her again with the contact open wordlessly. And to my frustration She STILL plays the games

BB: Im not surrree

Me: Yes u are

BB: Yeah but not gonna lieee im talking to someone already (like I give a fuck?)

I do not react at all. I simply shrug my shoulders and say I dont mind. She hesitates a little bit more before finally trying to put the goddamn number in the phone.

Unfortunately my phone was wet so it was going haywire. Opening and closing apps, deleting messages. Shit was weird.

She resorted to just putting the number into the message bar, which was fine with me. I saved it in a notepad as well just in case.

I took my phone and let her pack up, but suddenly remembered I forgot to seed the date. So I waited close to the door so I had another reason to say goodbye to her again.


As she was walking out, I told her bye and that I’d text her about meeting up somewhere else.

She giggles and says “we’ll see” on some bs like I wasn’t just grabbing her ass a few minutes ago. I just ignored that.

Fast forward ~ 90 minutes later, I’m at home after getting chewed out by parents for being back so late. I open my phone looking for BigBooty’s number.

Spoiler: The Real Fuck Up

I look for it in messages


Nowhere.


Oh well, I have a backup in my notepad so I open that up to look for it.


Gone.


Turns out, the water in my phone fucked it up so much that it deleted the note. I didnt even see it in my recently deleted.

I was extremely frustrated for a few minutes before I realized I have her snapchat through the track group chat we have.

I hate texting on snapchat because girls my age literally get 50 guys snapping them a second. Meanwhile on imessage they really only text their family and close friends. Technically less competition.

I could literally sense some bullshit was going to happen, but I had to do something to get the number

Spoiler: Snapchat Convo

Me: (Voice message) Ngl send ur contact again because the water fucked up my phone and the number disappeared.

BigBooty: *Laughing Emojis* Give me 1 good reason why
——————-

This bullshit again. Like bitch, you already gave me the number. I’m too horny for this

——————-
Me: We obviously both like each other, BB. We’ll see where this goes. Just send it already (last part said with some playful boredom/annoyance)

BB: Mmm but I for real got a nigga (aka dude she's talking to) though
——————

I dont think she’s lying, but I can also sense she’s on the fence and can still be convinced. I feel the tension and race a bit too fast to convince her. My next text was probably a bit too high effort

—————-

Me : (Text) ur chillin
(Text) I alr told you that I like privacy
(Voice Message) hey, aint nobody tying you down here. we're just gonna see where this goes.
_____________

Wayy too much effort, way too much into her frame. I knew immediately I sent it but it shows when you delete a message on snap. I believe it would be better than looking too calculating and deleting a message I previously sent.

To end the night off, this is what she said:

BB: nahhhhh. no hard feelings tho

FUCK

Me: (Text) aw. (ended conversation)

Spoiler: Afterthoughts

I dont think any of this would have happened if my phone didn't fuck up. That's just so unlucky.

One thing I also could have done is tease her a bit with my attention over snapchat before asking for the number, but all the blood that was supposed to be helping me think was in my dick. How can I go from feeling up a girls ass to her telling me no so quickly.

She gave me a hard no as well, so even though I see her at every track practice it's gonna be quite hard to reverse anything.

Man.

Lessons Learned from my dissection of this night (any more that you guys find in the comments would be deeply appreciated!):

1. Be a bit more dominant concerning getting her looking at me. Next time I'll put my finger on her chin and make her look at me. Increases tension, deepens the bubble, and increases attraction.

2. Lead stronger. Always have your eye on the ball and make sure you have a action plan to get your dick in her mouth if the place you're at makes it possible. I was having too much fun just playing with the cheeks instead of actually doing something

3. Stop trying to drag someone into a frame. Instead, set a frame and let her get sucked by your confidence in it.

4. Maybe make her earn it a bit more. Idk if my read is right here, but I didn't make her really earn much from me, I really just started feeling her up.

5+ . Anything else you guys have! (That is why I wrote the report after all)

If she's letting you feel her up, but nervous/not helping create any kind of connection, she's probably not all that used to it and trying to figure out what to do. I'd say you could have moved a lot faster here and concentrated on leading her more, which would probably have made her feel more secure. Trying to create rapport when things are hot and physical but going nowhere can have the effect of making her think you don't know what you're doing, or worse, that you feel like it's illegitimate to proceed.

This made me think of an asian girl I pulled straight back home off the street, I couldn't seem to get a green light on anything but she never made any move away. Eventually she started rocking back and forth a bit kind of looking up at the ceiling, without even looking at me, and I realized she was horny af but just wasn't used to showing it at all. I had to do something, so I just went in and started touching her hair, gave her a few neck kisses etc, kind of awkward. No real compliance again, but no moving away, and she was somehow looking pleased. So I told her to get down and take a massage, and everything from there was simple. She moaned the whole time and was the wettest girl I've ever been with.

Went off with a smile and never replied to any of my texts.

Point being, sometimes a girl is not really mentally ready - maybe she really is seeing someone, or doesn't see herself as 'that' sort of girl - but her body just wants to get fucked, and you have to find a way to push things along toward that conclusion.

 

[Lobo]

@Will_V
That was insightful, thank you for sharing

I feel like we look for greenlights to be risk averse... looking for the girls subtle or not so subtle "ok" to move forwards.

However, knowing how many girls don't want the blame for sex happening, as well as the girls i know who just want to feel "taken," it seems looking for these tells of approval and validation hurts us more than it helps us.

So from reading about your experience, as well as how kaidermans girl acted strangely, i believe that we should not focus on having our escalation validated or approved of, but instead, be very aware of if the girl shows any resistance, and calibrate accordingly.

Ofc, you might get the girl who doesent know how to say no, but there should always be a tell of discomfort(and not the good kind)

 

[Kaida]

What skills told you is huge. I lost a lay before because I walked a girl through a crowded area instead of a discreet one. Girl was a baddie too so ill never forgot how important it is to plan and have a strategy.

Ouch, that resonated with me bro. I would have been pissed

At the beginning outing, i always scout the area. See where the discreet spots are, how I'll be able to extract.

I remember going to a party under a bridge, and during a lull in the seduction i legit walked around for 10-15 min finding a spot where i could fuck the girl with nobody seeing us.

Doing that single handidly secured the lay. If i didn't do that, no matter how good my seduction was, i would not get the lay.

You had a girl in your hands who you thought was horny, if you had a pull strategy in place, you would have known where you could take her to fuck. Also which spots to avoid(the hot tub for example)

Mmm now that u remind me, the time I made out with a girl was when I actually scouted the venue a day prior to find any doors that had a lock inside so I could isolate her. That was the only makeout I've ever had, and I probably would have many more if I had been doing that consistently. Another great note

Also i didn't like her venting while escalating, seemed off, unless that's what she's like when flustered.

Yeah I didn't like that either. I'm horrendous at building connection, and need to get better ASAP. I lean to more physical seduction, but I feel like that tends to make girls regret getting with me more tho.

Or maybe, the girl liked you but wanted some connection. Noticed there wasn't a lot of that here

I'm still a virgin, and just barely started this seduction stuff, but all the times I got far with a girl has been 80%-100% physical and nonverbal game and everything I did verbally was just setting frames. In the moment I guess I'm too impatient to build a connection

 

[Kaida]

I've had a similar situation.

Some quickly written pointers

Extraction

• A really good move is to learn how to cement the little things she is doing and LEAD by example with discretion. Is she sticking around...comment on the vibe between you two or say she reminds you or your ex...is she doing something to move the seduction forward you can chase frame, reward, slight verbal nudge at what she is doing, etc. Things that make her conscious of what she's doing or what you’d like her to do .

Man this is such a phenomenal tip. This was one of the things I had in the back of my mind to do but I guess I forgot it in my horniness. I see youtubers like AveryB who seem to be very good at seduction doing anchoring a lot. That guy once framed even something as small as her wearing lip gloss as her "coming prepared" for him :

^ I really like his game, he does a lot of good things - cutting the space between them at a high point, being relaxed, making things fun and mutual, uses pregnant pauses and tension. Overall the best youtuber I've found with live sequences of good game

• "Hey you were telling me this...walk with me real quick and tell me about it go to *XYZ isolation spot* " "Come check this out!" "That reminds me...come with me" Stuff like that...all types of extraction shiz. DWW says "Can I steal you?" which is good shit especially when the vibe is there

Yeah, I was too hesitant.

We were almost 100% going to get publicly and loudly asked where we were going, and I was completely unprepared to handle that if it were to happen.

I was anticipating it leaving me speechless, her noticing, and consequently lowering my leadership value. This is social circle too so if someone called me out and left me speechless in front of everyone it would hurt me a lot more because then people will know exactly what was happening.

Interaction

• Also try to make her speak of positive things eventually or atleast guide her to end her threads positively while interacting. “That happened to you but you’re so much stronger.” Type shiz “ You made it though… you’re a survivor.” Y’know

Amazing note. Would have worked if I thought of it in time.

• Start learning to getting away or build from social or better social/emotional...curious how social vs sexual it was actually?

Uhh I personally didn't feel any real tension - Idk if I was just immune or there wasn't any - but if I was feeling up her ass and legs she definitely felt a good bit tension more than I did. It weirdly still felt social, but i was in a sexual headspace. It was a weird vibe for sure

• You seemed to give her frame verbally a lot as well

What do you mean

You did a great job at the end imo doing just that.

Yeah, I didnt want to let her off the hook too easily

• 
  Otherwise you did a good enough job with a lot of things imo. You have a bright road ahead of you if these are some of the things in your toolkit rn and imo this is far from an L you’ll remember. Trust me bro there are more W’s and L’s to come. Also this sounds like a rather fun interaction despite the ending head up champ…love chicks who have that energy.

I appreciate that man. I've been reading GC stuff for a long time and internalized a lot of the stuff, and I'm now just starting to go out and put it to work cuz I got my car recently. Ur tips will definitely help!

 

[Will_V]

@Will_V
That was insightful, thank you for sharing

I feel like we look for greenlights to be risk averse... looking for the girls subtle or not so subtle "ok" to move forwards.

However, knowing how many girls don't want the blame for sex happening, as well as the girls i know who just want to feel "taken," it seems looking for these tells of approval and validation hurts us more than it helps us.

So from reading about your experience, as well as how kaidermans girl acted strangely, i believe that we should not focus on having our escalation validated or approved of, but instead, be very aware of if the girl shows any resistance, and calibrate accordingly.

Ofc, you might get the girl who doesent know how to say no, but there should always be a tell of discomfort(and not the good kind)

Her talking fast while @Kaiderman is touching her is a clear signal of arousal but very poorly expressed on her part. I can't say from what he's written why (edit: well! probably the social circle aspect..), but girls come with all kinds of personalities when it comes to sex, based on their upbringing and experiences.

In my case she was there on my sofa, having come home with me after a 15 minute interaction, conversation wasn't exactly flowing, she was in a slightly melancholy mood, and she just had that activated look that you can't really describe when a woman is waiting to be taken. And then she starts rocking a little back and forth. I didn't have to be a genius to figure that she was desperate to bang. Probably she was holding so much tension she couldn't relax enough to express any clear signal of desire.

My best guess, based on her mood and behaviour, is that she had just broken up with someone, so I sensed that her emotions were not something I was going to be able to connect with. If I had tried to create too much rapport it probably would have backfired. Hence why she didn't really show any interest in foreplay, but was happy to lie face down in my pillow and let me do my thing.

All of this was more or less apparent to me, so it's not as if I was just ploughing ahead without any context.

Most of the time, I think it's far more pleasant to be with girls who can express themselves clearly (like those ferocious latinas who look like they're ready to pounce on you when you turn them on), but there are girls who just have no idea how to deal with their own arousal. So in that case, yes, it's best to look for signs of resistance and lack of compliance, rather than lack of clear interest, when determining if there's a real obstacle. If there's none, and you've already set a clear sexual context, then just lead her to the bedroom. If she doesn't want it, she won't come with you, let alone allow you to take her clothes off.

 

[mist]

What do you mean

Some pointers on specifically this.

Me: I bet you’d drown in here

BB: Race me then

I was debating racing her because I didnt know how it was gonna turn out. I didnt rlly care tho because it would contribute to a playful vibe.

Me: Bring it.

Idk how we got to this conversation but now shes talking about how her mom likes her brother more than her and some other bs about how her dad is on vacation. I wasnt rlly listening to be honest

Maybe it’s because of the sexual tension she was feeling, but now shes talking A LOT and reallly reallly fast. Only occasionally turning to me and saying “you get it?” in a high voice and resuming her rant. This went on for ~ 6 mins

She put her finger on her chin and started playfully deliberating whether to put in her phone number or not.

I guess me handing her my phone made her fully process that this may become a real thing, so now she’s pulling out her “hard to get” tips and tricks she read off fucking teen vouge.

BB: (smiling) Hmmm, I dont knowwwww

Me: Oh I know you know (points at the phone)

After the call, she was still right next to me getting some stuff ready so I handed my phone to her again with the contact open wordlessly. And to my frustration She STILL plays the games

BB: Im not surrree

Me: Yes u are

BB: Yeah but not gonna lieee im talking to someone already (like I give a fuck?)

Me: (Voice message) Ngl send ur contact again because the water fucked up my phone and the number disappeared.

BigBooty: *Laughing Emojis* Give me 1 good reason why

Me: We obviously both like each other, BB. We’ll see where this goes. Just send it already (last part said with some playful boredom/annoyance)

BB: Mmm but I for real got a nigga (aka dude she's talking to) though

Me : (Text) ur chillin
(Text) I alr told you that I like privacy
(Voice Message) hey, aint nobody tying you down here. we're just gonna see where this goes.

BB: nahhhhh. no hard feelings tho

Me: (Text) aw. (ended conversation)

Don't get too in your head as imo nothing massively egregious just little things that'll help you quite a bit next go round.

- Don't let her drive the topics. You should be managing the topics even if passively and you're focused on the escalation the benefits are you get to frame, can distract her, seed pulls, even turn her on more.

- Don't wait around obviously or even give her a chance to make you wait during a shit test or noncompliance. Parting shot her, give her instructions. Even with you looking away you're still complying and playing her game on her terms. Women don't fall for guys who do this. Doesn't mean go redpill and be butthurt, but look into Chase's parting shots and shiz. Play the game within your frame.

- If you sense an objection or resistance coming (like you did in the text) take a step back or switch it up. This one is hard for me but it's worth it man. Getting positive or keeping neutral compliance is more useful for beginners and intermediates than negative or moving backwards. Taking a step back or simply switching things up instead of walking headfirst into objection or rejection is a great move...mind you this doesn't mean no persistence, but developing more savvy persistence and compliance ladders will eventually create those blended seductions for women where it feels "it just happened". Texting her on social some intrigue bait would've been more effective than her number, plus if she is responsive there just use that

- Don't give her more emotional investment after rejection or resistance. It flips her script. Women are used to many reactions when rejecting or resisting. Giving her something cordial then going about your best life can sometimes give them pause. Increase intrigue maybe attraction if it's followed by preselection and social proof.

- She screened and paced the interaction quite a bit. You should be doing most of that...show me this, tell me that, why should I do this, 1 good reason. Women fall for dudes they jump through hoops for more than the man who mutually complies or even worse 100& devotes to (simping)

- Grab contact info before the end of the interaction. That highpoint between the hot tub and pool was a good moment for many things. Highpoint are just good shit in general for moving the seduction forward.

- Do not argue or explicitly sell things (usually)...especially if she asks you to as a test. "Me: We obviously both like each other, BB. We’ll see where this goes. Just send it already" no bro... that's a lot of gas pedal where a quick break would've took you out the frame you know this though "Wayy too much effort, way too much into her frame. I knew immediately I sent it but it shows when you delete a message on snap. I believe it would be better than looking too calculating and deleting a message I previously sent." So next time take a breath and think about not what you are feeling right at the moment especially if you are scrambled, but good form. You'll develop feel rn focus on good form namely not giving up so much frame for free or no benefit for you.

- TL;DR you dealt with prizing (she kept prizing herself at key moments), screening (she was setting the pace and terms of the interaction), compliance (you were struggling to get her not only horny but compliant and invested.), resistance (at key moments she resisted and you handled them alright, but not like a straight pimp my boy).

- EVEN more TL;DR my boi you must become the nigga. BECOME TYRONE...ok maybe not but yeah you're just short of the mannerisms of a guy who'd be clapping them cheeks. You're right there bro. If you have a chance I'd say start looking into the guys at your school or in your circle straight cleaning up around you. Will really level you up if you can befriend them or even see it in action.

But good on really leaning on the discretion frames and shiz. You learn to manage your frame a bit more and some meta frame positioning and shiz will flip. Excited to see what's next from you brodster.

Thank you for your time. Peace.

Also really take note of what Lobo, Will V and Skills have said. That shit was clean

- Mist

 

[Kaida]

- Even with you looking away you're still complying and playing her game on her terms. Women don't fall for guys who do this. Doesn't mean go redpill and be butthurt, but look into Chase's parting shots and shiz. Play the game within your frame.

What would you have done there?

I had a very confident feeling she was gonna put it in eventually, so even though I felt like a bum waiting and knew it probably wasn’t the best thing to do, I didnt want to interrupt her thinking.

- Don't give her more emotional investment after rejection or resistance. It flips her script. Women are used to many reactions when rejecting or resisting. Giving her something cordial then going about your best life can sometimes give them pause. Increase intrigue maybe attraction if it's followed by preselection and social proof.

Oh, something positive would have worked better? I disnt really see it as emotional investment.

I thought in that situation I wouldnt want to diffuse too much tension and make her double take a little bit thinking she made a faux pas so I just said “aw”.

- She screened and paced the interaction quite a bit. You should be doing most of that...show me this, tell me that, why should I do this, 1 good reason. Women fall for dudes they jump through hoops for more than the man who mutually complies or even worse 100& devotes to (simping)

What would you have done when she sent that?


I‘m thinking I should have just framed it a different way:

Ex: “Well we both like each other…” frames my reply as compliant to her screen.

But if I was like “Cmon, these games are lame. we both like each other…” it frames it as just something I’m saying and not necessarily compliance to her

good take or nah?

- EVEN more TL;DR my boi you must become the nigga. BECOME TYRONE...ok maybe not but yeah you're just short of the mannerisms of a guy who'd be clapping them cheeks.

I feel it too bro i’m so close. Its always the small cracks in my frame

But good on really leaning on the discretion frames and shiz. You learn to manage your frame a bit more and some meta frame positioning and shiz will flip. Excited to see what's next from you brodster.

Thank you for your time. Peace.

Also really take note of what Lobo, Will V and Skills have said. That shit was clean

- Mist

Fasho man i appreciate all of it! You were a big help.

 

[Kaida]

If she's letting you feel her up, but nervous/not helping create any kind of connection, she's probably not all that used to it and trying to figure out what to do. I'd say you could have moved a lot faster here and concentrated on leading her more, which would probably have made her feel more secure. Trying to create rapport when things are hot and physical but going nowhere can have the effect of making her think you don't know what you're doing, or worse, that you feel like it's illegitimate to proceed.

Yeah I was more trying to increase attainability if anything. I should have just escalated the physical vibe more and more and moved the topics to physical stuff like “You got nice legs” or something

Point being, sometimes a girl is not really mentally ready - maybe she really is seeing someone, or doesn't see herself as 'that' sort of girl - but her body just wants to get fucked, and you have to find a way to push things along toward that conclusion.

Mmm good note. Ur story seems to be the exact case with my girl here honestly.

2 Q’s:

1. What would you have said to her in order to extract her to your car nonchalantly with plausible deniability? I had no ideas which is one of reasons why I hesitated

2. What do you do if the people in the party call you guys out loudly as you try to extract her?

 

[Lobo]

I'm still a virgin, and just barely started this seduction stuff, but all the times I got far with a girl has been 80%-100% physical and nonverbal game and everything I did verbally was just setting frames. In the moment I guess I'm too impatient to build a connection

As you'll prob be heading to college soon, i highly recommend you practice some verbal game.

I was there half a year ago and was running laps over the sweaty frat bros who only knew shitty physical game.

Hell, i would even use their shitty kino to pace the girl while othering them and prizing myself.

This is not to say that physical game isnt important, far from it, i still used A LOT of physicality. Namely the one finger touch(more subdued, yet still stimulating. Mysterious and very different than what other guys are doing. All of that prizes me 10x)

In one of my reports i used it on a girl at a bar and she word for word said "wow, your touch is very different from other guys" as she was trying to contain the floodgates. So also important to make physical game stronger

But the verbal game is huge. What comes out of most men's mouths these days is complete horseshit that doesen't help their objective in the slightest.

When you come in spitting stimulating death bombs, the likes she's never heard of before, girls pick up on that shit.

Your words are your strongest asset to setting productive frames, and frame is the game.

Combine verbal game with top notch physical, and you can create rainstorms at will.

Also, bless up that you got into this so early, so many guys would kill to be in your position

 

[Beck Bass]

Also i didn't like her venting while escalating, seemed off, unless that's what she's like when flustered. Or maybe, the girl liked you but wanted some connection.

I think she likely didn't want to feel too slutty, she wanted some connection, they are 17 yo after all, her way of doing so though was a bit silly... Though it's understandable, I mean, they are horny, getting touchy in public, she's not quite thinking straight, she just tried to feel better about herself.

To be fair, I think that was the main point to address, get a connection with her, making her feel more allowed to have sex with you. She didn't gave you the contact because you were just some dick she was gonna have, but then it didn't pan out, too bad, she doesn't want it some other day because, again, she wanted more of a connection, if when she was horny she felt like you weren't close enough to her, imagine the other day waking up in a bad mood.

I think you could have closed if you had better logistics, but if knew you wasn't quite there (logistics wise), you should had got her contact sooner and held back a bit from escalating, just being a cool social guy, and trying to get some sort of connection with her, so she's inclined to talk to you afterwards.

As you'll prob be heading to college soon, i highly recommend you practice some verbal game

That's important, it's not always you can just brute force your kino into a win, many times you need at least some verbal game, and it opens up many other opportunities in places where hooking up isn't quite allowed/expected from people (many types of social circles, with hired guns, etc). Try reading about banter/small talk, and about deep dive, and try to think about a middle ground, like how you transition from silly convo into deeper, more connection allowing stuff

 

[Fuck This]

Make sure you think couple of steps ahead, next time do what i recommend to text yourself from her phone or call yourself from her phone

The fact you mentioned your parents and being chewed out tells me you are pretty young, and these things happen and they gotta happen to learn from them. I had a similar pool seduction in high school on a trip. The girl and her friends snuck me into their hotel room, and I was discovered by an advisor before I could accomplish anything.

Best bet is to reschedule a meetup in an isolated location in a couple hours. Leave her wanting more to lessen the flake likelihood. Make the arrangement face to face, and take steps to be sure you will stay in touch ( the phone thing is a bummer, sorry).

 

[Kaida]

That's important, it's not always you can just brute force your kino into a win, many times you need at least some verbal game, and it opens up many other opportunities in places where hooking up isn't quite allowed/expected from people (many types of social circles, with hired guns, etc). Try reading about banter/small talk, and about deep dive, and try to think about a middle ground, like how you transition from silly convo into deeper, more connection allowing stuff

This is so right. I’ve pretty much been in brute force kino mode whenever I’m seducing girls. I need to focus on setting good verbal frames and things like out framing ASD

Also - good note on not escalating so much. Maybe I’ve been drilling in “move fast” too much and forgot that its ideal to take it slow at certain moments