My Response to BLM Social Justice Warriors

[Mr.Rob]

OK. First this is really rough and I may be missing the mark in this analysis so definitely feel free to poke holes in loose arguments or areas I overlooked as I know this subject is very Grey and not very black and white.

I'll also say that I am very embracing of different races and have friends from every race. This is mostly with regards to white and black people and I hold no ill against black people, particularly urban "hood" black people. I have a lot of respect for their culture despite its many flaws. In fact I for a number of years I sought to imitate black inner city "hood" culture, and they say the biggest compliment one can pay is imitation so I don't want to hear any kickback about this being me coming from the superior white man.

OK with that out of the way here is my response to BLM Social Justice Warriors.
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I have a few black or mixed race friends who are quite passionate about social justice of racism in America these days. Although I don't think the movement in an of itself is "bad" per se I do get quite annoyed when friends or acquaintances bring up the topic of racism in America.

Oftentimes the argument is "your privileged and white! Of course you don't understand what its like to experience racism" and that used to make me scratch my head and agree with them because it is true to a certain extent. However thinking back to my teenage years I realized that I have actually experienced racism first hand as a white man. It goes both ways believe it or not! And the direction the racism goes all has to do with...

In-group (majority) vs. Out-group (minority)

In any group of people there is an "normal" IN group and an "abnormal" OUT group. Chase has talked about this concept as "other-ing", or if your not in the in group you are considered "othered" by the members of the IN group.

Racism, sexism, whatever-ism can really only be dished out by the IN group towards the OUT group and not vice versa. The IN group has the power whether in the form of authority, numbers of people, or ability to inflict harm on the OUT group (think armed slave owners against unarmed slaves).

Now I'm not talking about HATE RACISM where people literally want to sociologically inflict serious harm on others they deem inferior due to having a different skin color. I'm talking about general bigotry that most people refer to from a social justice standpoint.

With that clarification out of the way I think "racism" (again read bigotry in social justice perspective) is really just a lack of respect for the OUT group. Unfortunately, the responsibility lies on the OUT group to earn the respect of the IN group before they will be accepted by the IN group and be treated fairly.

My Experience of Black on White Racism

I used to engage in some pretty shady "hood" activities at one point in my later teenage years. I integrated myself into a social circle that spent a lot of time hanging out in the inner city, black majority ghettos of my home town. It was interesting to me and I was always so intrigued by the culture difference compared to the suburbs, the raw masculinity exhibited by people "in the streets", and the irreverence towards authority.

What I found when I would go places where I was the minority is I would experience bigoted racism because I was white and not a part of the IN group. I'd get snide remarks like "whigger", "white boy", and "cracka". In "business dealings" with black people I'd often get shorted and stiffed for my money (they typically had the power of "ability to inflict harm" via weapons that I didn't possess so I was forced to take it a lot of times...*side note I got in over my head more than I should've at times). I'd always get mean mugged really hard just walking into an all black convenience store or just walking down the street. The automatic response from 70% of black people I met was to "other" me (30% would be cool straight off the bat because I was introduced by a friend etc.)

What I found was that if I did some actions, stood up for myself (in a non combative way), or showed that I was actually an equal socially then I'd be able to earn the respect of black street folk and then we'd be friends and everything was cool (but still made sure I watched over my shoulder!!!).

My Thoughts on Social Justice Racism in USA Today

Does it exist. Yes definitely. What should minorities do to be treated equally?

1. Take full responsibility for being a minority among the majority and stop being a whiny hopeless victim. Its very obvious your a minority and the only way you can fully mitigate racism is by presenting yourself so that you are in the IN group.

2. Once you are a part of the IN group earn the respect of those who still don't accept you and get them to view you as a social equal and that you are on the IN groups side.

Basically this means if your black and you don't want to get harassed by the white police tone down what white people perceive to be "Nigger" traits that drives white cops to hate black people. This means do things like dress more professional and conservative, learn to talk more like white people and drop the hood slang accent, drive white people cars like a Prius (without rims), spend time learning with successful white people to learn how they act/behave and believe, etc etc. Then get a nice paying job, climb the corporate ladder, and when your successful and happy and not living in the ghetto then on the weekends you can go drive your Chevy Caprice and pop your grille in your mouth and drop the top on that bit' "ya heard me?"

Otherwise if you don't do those things I'm not going to feel sorry for you when you experience racism. Its not that I'm not sympathetic and cold its just if you want to get accepted by the IN group the responsibility is on YOU (the OUT group) to conform to the system of the majority. Its a universal social principle.

Otherwise your rebelling against the majority and that is ALWAYS a losing battle.

-Rob

 

[Cacc]

Nice post but I don't think you've got to conform that much unless you want to. And I don't think you have to be like the IN group to hang with the IN group.

If you're a guy who's cool and socially savvy you can be accepted to a group simply because of that without conforming to their social rules.

That's what not being bound by society's rules is about. Being able to be accepted and respected from group to group without having to follow their rules and social norms. Simply because your value is so high it doesn't matter.

But, I understand you're talking about the majority of people who actually want to conform and be fully accepted as part of the IN group.

 

[Mr.Rob]

Yeah there's definitely some sweeping generalizations and black and white points I made Cacc, so there definitely a hole in the argument but hopefully the perspective as a whole rings true.

I agree the level of conformity I suggested is quite extreme but I was trying to make the point that if you truly want to stop getting harrassed by the police or snoffed at by the "elite" white man (or fill in the blank of what BLM think is oppressing them socially) then your going to have to do something different than give the middle finger if you happen to be in the OUT group.

Also the reason I'm passionate about this topic is I see more than a few friends and people in general following the BLM trend and I'm all for the BLM cause EXCEPT that it breeds massive victim mentality and paradoxically oppresses the people that subscribe to it who now have their brains trained to look for any racism and how oppressed their race is. In an attempt to free themselves from oppression through the movement they actually turn the key to lock their own shackles.

 

[Cacc]

As a person who sees the world in shades of grey, black and white statements are probably the most irritating thing ever..

Also the reason I'm passionate about this topic is I see more than a few friends and people in general following the BLM trend and I'm all for the BLM cause EXCEPT that it breeds massive victim mentality and paradoxically oppresses the people that subscribe to it who now have their brains trained to look for any racism and how oppressed their race is. In an attempt to free themselves from oppression through the movement they actually turn the key to lock their own shackles.

Yeah. But, isn't that the problem with most people who subscribe to their beliefs in dogmatic ways?Mgtow, feminism, liberals, conservatives, etc. It's mostly groups of black and white thinkers who shine the light on something that proves their theories and close their eyes to everything else. . Have you heard the story of the 2 men who arrive at a new city and ask the taxi driver how the women there are like?

 

[Mr.Rob]

So I think this was more or less my rebuttle to my friends when they start talking about how bad racism is in the US and try to get you to agree that white people are still racist (which is true but so is every race). Its annoying when friends bring it up so I was more or less getting my thoughts out to see if they made sense enough to use as a rebuttal the next time it comes up. (though my go to lately is just to change the subject or tell them its annoying to talk about).

That being said.

Yeah. But, isn't that the problem with most people who subscribe to their beliefs in dogmatic ways?Mgtow, feminism, liberals, conservatives, etc. It's mostly groups of black and white thinkers who shine the light on something that proves their theories and close their eyes to everything else.

That's interesting that you point this out. You know I probably am guilty of that in certain areas of my beliefs, typically regarding mainstream social justice issues. I think I find it annoying to the point I go the opposite way on my beliefs, perhaps too much in the opposite direction...

Thanks for pointing that out.

But is this:

Also the reason I'm passionate about this topic is I see more than a few friends and people in general following the BLM trend and I'm all for the BLM cause EXCEPT that it breeds massive victim mentality and paradoxically oppresses the people that subscribe to it who now have their brains trained to look for any racism and how oppressed their race is. In an attempt to free themselves from oppression through the movement they actually turn the key to lock their own shackles.

really all that black and white of a statement? Or is it true that by following mainstream media and believing racism is this huge problem in America that holds back colored people creates a victim mentality in those that subscribe to that belief?

To me it doesn't seem black and white it seems like just a fact based on my experience of interacting with people who believe it.

Cacc can you point out to me the "Grey" that is actually the truth in this case? You mentioned I'm closing my eyes to everything else, what is that "everything else" with regards to this topic?

At the end of the day the truth is what we all should be after.

 

[Cacc]

As a person who sees the world in shades of grey, black and white statements are probably the most irritating thing ever..

This wasn't a snide remark, I was relating to you that black and white comments are annoying

Yeah. But, isn't that the problem with most people who subscribe to their beliefs in dogmatic ways?Mgtow, feminism, liberals, conservatives, etc. It's mostly groups of black and white thinkers who shine the light on something that proves their theories and close their eyes to everything else.

I wasn't talking about you here. Just generalizing that all mental models have the same problems, people become blind to anything that doesn't fit their world views.

really all that black and white of a statement? Or is it true that by following mainstream media and believing racism is this huge problem in America that holds back colored people creates a victim mentality in those that subscribe to that belief?

To me it doesn't seem black and white it seems like just a fact based on my experience of interacting with people who believe it.

Cacc can you point out to me the "Grey" that is actually the truth in this case? You mentioned I'm closing my eyes to everything else, what is that "everything else" with regards to this topic?

At the end of the day the truth is what we all should be after.

Nah, I don't think it's black and white. Listen, I don't know anything about BLM really tbh so I can't talk, I just have a very good gut feeling.

Think about it, there is no innate reason for racism. Kids aren't born racist. Racism is strictly social conditioning. It's been 147 years since slavery officially ended. Us media is very good at telling Americans what is right and what is wrong, racism is one of these things it touts as BAD.


I believe that white people are more racist or scared of how black people live. It's no doubt black people commit a lot of crimes, they curse, they're aggressive and imposing, etc. White people see this and they other them. I mean, society told them that all those things black people do are bad right? They live their lives so different than the white people do, so white people OTHER them.

So yeah. I don't think white people are racist of black people's color more so their intimidating culture, ya feel?

P.S: I'm talking about most people here. There are obviously real racists out there.

P.S.S: I believe a lot of what's thrown around today as racism is actually prejudice. Like saying "all black people steal" isn't a racist remark, it's a prejudiced remark based on preconceived notions that person might have. Just like saying "all white people are meek or overly apologetic" isn't racist either, just a generalization.

 

[Mr.Rob]

This wasn't a snide remark, I was relating to you that black and white comments are annoying

I wasn't talking about you here. Just generalizing that all mental models have the same problems, people become blind to anything that doesn't fit their world views.

Oh interesting I misinterpret-ted that completely. Right on.

Think about it, there is no innate reason for racism. Kids aren't born racist. Racism is strictly social conditioning. It's been 147 years since slavery officially ended. Us media is very good at telling Americans what is right and what is wrong, racism is one of these things it touts as BAD.

Yeah I agree. US media can have a toxic effect on its consumers, oftentimes exacerbating and perpetuating strife and emotional reactions to turn the masses against each other.
Wouldn't it be interesting if you turned the news on and it showed racial minorities and whites coming together to understand one another and work on a project together in the city to achieve a win-win outcome and then gave viewers insight into how they could self-actualize and do the same in their town.

I believe that white people are more racist or scared of how black people live. It's no doubt black people commit a lot of crimes, they curse, they're aggressive and imposing, etc. White people see this and they other them. I mean, society told them that all those things black people do are bad right? They live their lives so different than the white people do, so white people OTHER them.

Black communities are raised to respond the same way to white people. Yeah your totally right oftentimes racism is very fear based stemming from a lack of understanding and empathy for the other party.

I'd say the real cure to racism is for people of different ethnicities to spend time with members of the opposite race and ask questions to understand one another, particularly to understand the aspects they dislike and fear the most in the other. Very similar to how Chase describes in the article on being non-judgemental.

By doing both parties would stop viewing each other as "white" and "black" and more so just people that are from different cultures to be assessed on a person by person basis.

What do you all think is the answer to reducing/managing racism, prejudice, and bigotry in America today? (*I don't think its entirely possible to END racism fully as its something that humans naturally do to reduce cognitive load but I do think measures can be taken to reduce and manage strife among one another)

 

[Smurf]

Uhh....

So in essence, you're advocating that blacks act "more white" to appeal to the "in" (supposedly superior) group? Are you serious?

You can't honestly be telling people to stop acting how they want to in order to fit in to the norm of society. That shit's completely sideways, dude. Your friends are right, you don't understand as a white male. You've portrayed the slight bigotry you've felt as a white male as an attempt to say, "Yes, I know how it feels!" Buuut you really don't. Honestly you being a white male is the furthest thing you can get from bring a target of hate, or at least hate that actually can do damage.

If I were you I'd stay away from trying to share your two cents about BLM and suggesting African-Americans get rid of "nigger traits" as you say. No one should have to act any sort of way to avoid getting shot by the people meant to protect them.

Jake.

 

[Master K. Stone]

Mr Rob

I have to side with Jake here.
You know just a few months ago I would have agreed with you that blacks should become more like whites. But then I read the autobiography of Malcolm X and realized that that way of thinking was because of the way I have been influenced by the media, education etc. I try never to lean to any extreme, so I don't agree with everything noted in the book. However to understand why black people are that way read the book without getting emotional (trust me it's really easy to get emotional).

Now I have no reference as to how racial dynamics work in the US ( I'm from sub sahara Africa) aside from what I read on the news and online but, I know the "racism" from my own environment. It's a different flavor from the one African Americans experience but, one thing I can tell you is once you get a couple of friends of different races you don't think about it too much really.

From where I'm standing (and the media influence which I can only battle so much) BLM seems to be spreading division instead of spreading understanding but that's what happens when the media portrays innocent men being shot in front of the children. Any given population is easily influenced by things like that.

K.

 

[Hue]

The Autobiography of Malcom X is a must read. Changed the way I thought about a number of things.

One issue in being progressive with social justice is instances of glorification of gang-related activities, because the media tends to only turn the cameras on when impoverished communities behave in ways alien to "calmer" society.

Gangs were in part created as somewhat of a militia against bad police and hate crimes, and it makes sense that a discriminated minority population would form an identity and a bond from their oppression. However, glorifying the gang identity as you see in rap music, as well as within the subculture of whatever group that exists only further perpetuates the issue.

Similarly, police form a bond from the high risk situations (or seemingly high risk) they find themselves in with eachother, and form an identity around that bond. This is followed by consistent confirmation and reaffirmation of the beliefs of the subculture.

Both create tunnel vision, and both behaviors perpetuate each other.

more police brutality --> more anger from the oppressed --> more radical behavior / compliance to the brutality --> more confirmation of identity --> more fear of police / fear of minorities --> more stress during exchanges between the two populations --> more police brutality... it's fucked.

To Pimp A Butterfly is one of my favorite albums that speaks volumes to this, as well as other socially conscious ideas. A lot of people didn't like it because of the jazz production and moments of heavy dissonance, but thoroughly immersing yourself in the message and studying the music is why it's a 10/10 in my opinion - it helped me better understand concepts that I'll never experience first hand.

Unfortunately, the responsibility lies on the OUT group to earn the respect of the IN group before they will be accepted by the IN group and be treated fairly.

There's instances of this being the observable truth, but that doesn't make it justified or ideal for a society rooted in freedom and equality.


Hueman

 

[Ree]

OK. First this is really rough and I may be missing the mark in this analysis so definitely feel free to poke holes in loose arguments or areas I overlooked as I know this subject is very Grey and not very black and white.

I'll also say that I am very embracing of different races and have friends from every race. This is mostly with regards to white and black people and I hold no ill against black people, particularly urban "hood" black people. I have a lot of respect for their culture despite its many flaws. In fact I for a number of years I sought to imitate black inner city "hood" culture, and they say the biggest compliment one can pay is imitation so I don't want to hear any kickback about this being me coming from the superior white man.

OK with that out of the way here is my response to BLM Social Justice Warriors.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have a few black or mixed race friends who are quite passionate about social justice of racism in America these days. Although I don't think the movement in an of itself is "bad" per se I do get quite annoyed when friends or acquaintances bring up the topic of racism in America.

Oftentimes the argument is "your privileged and white! Of course you don't understand what its like to experience racism" and that used to make me scratch my head and agree with them because it is true to a certain extent. However thinking back to my teenage years I realized that I have actually experienced racism first hand as a white man. It goes both ways believe it or not! And the direction the racism goes all has to do with...

In-group (majority) vs. Out-group (minority)

In any group of people there is an "normal" IN group and an "abnormal" OUT group. Chase has talked about this concept as "other-ing", or if your not in the in group you are considered "othered" by the members of the IN group.

Racism, sexism, whatever-ism can really only be dished out by the IN group towards the OUT group and not vice versa. The IN group has the power whether in the form of authority, numbers of people, or ability to inflict harm on the OUT group (think armed slave owners against unarmed slaves).

Now I'm not talking about HATE RACISM where people literally want to sociologically inflict serious harm on others they deem inferior due to having a different skin color. I'm talking about general bigotry that most people refer to from a social justice standpoint.

With that clarification out of the way I think "racism" (again read bigotry in social justice perspective) is really just a lack of respect for the OUT group. Unfortunately, the responsibility lies on the OUT group to earn the respect of the IN group before they will be accepted by the IN group and be treated fairly.

My Experience of Black on White Racism

I used to engage in some pretty shady "hood" activities at one point in my later teenage years. I integrated myself into a social circle that spent a lot of time hanging out in the inner city, black majority ghettos of my home town. It was interesting to me and I was always so intrigued by the culture difference compared to the suburbs, the raw masculinity exhibited by people "in the streets", and the irreverence towards authority.

What I found when I would go places where I was the minority is I would experience bigoted racism because I was white and not a part of the IN group. I'd get snide remarks like "whigger", "white boy", and "cracka". In "business dealings" with black people I'd often get shorted and stiffed for my money (they typically had the power of "ability to inflict harm" via weapons that I didn't possess so I was forced to take it a lot of times...*side note I got in over my head more than I should've at times). I'd always get mean mugged really hard just walking into an all black convenience store or just walking down the street. The automatic response from 70% of black people I met was to "other" me (30% would be cool straight off the bat because I was introduced by a friend etc.)

What I found was that if I did some actions, stood up for myself (in a non combative way), or showed that I was actually an equal socially then I'd be able to earn the respect of black street folk and then we'd be friends and everything was cool (but still made sure I watched over my shoulder!!!).

My Thoughts on Social Justice Racism in USA Today

Does it exist. Yes definitely. What should minorities do to be treated equally?

1. Take full responsibility for being a minority among the majority and stop being a whiny hopeless victim. Its very obvious your a minority and the only way you can fully mitigate racism is by presenting yourself so that you are in the IN group.

2. Once you are a part of the IN group earn the respect of those who still don't accept you and get them to view you as a social equal and that you are on the IN groups side.

Basically this means if your black and you don't want to get harassed by the white police tone down what white people perceive to be "Nigger" traits that drives white cops to hate black people. This means do things like dress more professional and conservative, learn to talk more like white people and drop the hood slang accent, drive white people cars like a Prius (without rims), spend time learning with successful white people to learn how they act/behave and believe, etc etc. Then get a nice paying job, climb the corporate ladder, and when your successful and happy and not living in the ghetto then on the weekends you can go drive your Chevy Caprice and pop your grille in your mouth and drop the top on that bit' "ya heard me?"

Otherwise if you don't do those things I'm not going to feel sorry for you when you experience racism. Its not that I'm not sympathetic and cold its just if you want to get accepted by the IN group the responsibility is on YOU (the OUT group) to conform to the system of the majority. Its a universal social principle.

Otherwise your rebelling against the majority and that is ALWAYS a losing battle.

-Rob

a lot of what you say resonates with me,it reminds me of what chase calls victimmentality....
i think it depend on wat you are..are you an activist or an opportunist...i personally am an opportunist
if for example,clubs are not letting inpeople dressed a certain way..instead of complaining about discrimination i wud rather just observe how the prople being let in are dressed and then mimic them
i think be yourself is bad advice...i think people should be like a liquid...whatever society is accepting ...be that

 

[Mr.Rob]

Uhh....

So in essence, you're advocating that blacks act "more white" to appeal to the "in" (supposedly superior) group? Are you serious?

Jake,

If the black community wants to avoid encountering prejudice/bigotry then yes it could be a viable solution. The extent I suggested is a bit extreme I realize but I think it is a solution.

Think about all the "white" people with black skin (as my black friends call them) that go around smiling and acting more similar to white folks, they nearly never have issues with prejudice or bigotry or especially profiling (never heard of a "white" black man getting searched or beat up by cops for having their seat belt fastened too tightly in their Prius). Are these "white" black men not achieving the very results that BLM activists are protesting for (i.e. less racism/profiling/bigotry etc)?

No one should have to act any sort of way to avoid getting shot by the people meant to protect them.

I don't believe my suggestion is fair. I'm just proposing an alternative since obviously "the world should be fair" strategy isn't working out too well.

I'm actually not even a believer that its a racial thing when it comes these police violence acts. Who do you always see on the news? THUGS.

Anecdotally I got pulled over and searched on two occasions and had to wait on the curb for doing absolutely nothing wrong (well I wasn't wearing a seat belt one time) and ZERO probable cause when I dressed/behaved like a hoodlum (luckily the cops never found anything and I was let go). Also I've seen many a white thug friends get profiled and treated with hostility by WHITE cops just because they were thugs.

In this case black people are the majority of "thug" imagine and unfortunately get more backlash for it than white people who are the minority of thugs which is likely where the stereotype stems from.

On another note white cops shoot black people everyday. Black cops shoot white people everyday. And black cops shoot black people and white cops shoot white people everyday. It just doesn't get reported unless its a white cop shooting a black man because it simply doesn't sell.

Remember Ferguson? What a horrific shit show of the media using that to essentially rip the town to shreds, created riots, and stirred up a massive amounts of hostility between Americans for months on end. The media made a tiny mound of an event that happens everyday (and who really knows if Brown or Wilson was really in the wrong) into a massive mole hill that did nothing but pine Americans of different races against each other and frame black Americans as victims of the white man. All just to sell news media.

If the black community wants to decrease racism then there going to have to do something different than play the victim card, continue consuming mainstream media, and rebel against the system. The best I've seen is this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pClry-vNLE of blacks and whites coming together to forget everything and come together as people. Imagine if every city had events where blacks and whites came together regularly and collectively to purposely bring down the divide. When that starts happening I think progress can truly be made on this issue.

If I were you I'd stay away from trying to share your two cents about BLM.

Happy to hear your perspective on the matter. What is your response to BLM? Is it effective in achieving the results its activists are seeking? What is the best solution to reduce racism in America?

-Rob

 

[ray_zorse]

I agree to an extent with your argument Mr.Rob (although to be fair I can also see Jake's side). Here in Australia black (African)/white racism isn't an issue as far as I know, Asian/white and Indian/white and Middle Eastern (or "Islamic Looking")/white incidents have occurred but I would not say it is huge here. What is a bit huge is Abirigine (Native Australian)/white issues, in a way it's sort of the elephant in the room especially here in the southeast part of the country where historically Aboriginal culture and people were largely wiped out due to colonization by the English/current dominant race/culture. In other parts of Australia, Aboriginal culture is much more intact but Aborigines are still a minority group and have hugely worse outcomes on every conceivable measure like education, health, employment etc and suffer from huge amounts of alcoholism, family violence and such like, however since many Aborigines live in their own communities some of which are very remote it's easy for white people (or indeed other more fortunate people such as Asians or assimilated Aborigines) to just sweep it under the rug and treat the problem like it doesn't exist.

Thing is, that unfortunately (because it is very unfashionable) I cannot escape the conclusion that assimilation is the answer. Much as it seems wrong to force Aboriginal people to accept white culture and values, they are already accepting the worst part of it (sych as alcohol and Government handouts such as unemployment benefits which is the sole source of economic activity in some remote communities), so it seems not a stretch to accept the better parts such as education, health and employment. And, although Aboriginal lifestyle was well suited in an isolationist time (when the only contact with foreigners was with Indonesians who would come over to the Northern Territory in canoes each season and trade with.local Aborigines for the right to camp on the beach and catch and smoke the local fish to take back to Indonesia and sell at the end of the season) it is totally unsuited to participating in a global rconomy, yet Aborigines would like to have cars, mobile phones and the other fruits of globalism just like anyone else. The rest of the world has adapted away from an agrarian or hunter gatherer lifestyle and made the necessary adjustments in their culture, i.e. they have at least partially assimilated to European and other colonists by accepting a monetary economy, a rule of law and so on. To some extent this has affected things like marriage customs etc. I recommend same for Aboriginal communities -- BUT here is the rub: In the 50s and 60s the "well meaning" Australian Government has committed a massive crime in taking Aboriginal babies and placing them with white foster families in order to assimilate them, and eventually has been forced to issue a formal apology and huge compensation (the "stolen generation" scandal). So assimilation is totally not the vogue now. I wish I did not think so logically because unfortunately I think assimilation is necessary.

As a slight aside there is also so called "cultural relativism" which is very fashionable nowadays, which says that an individual's actions can only be interpreted in the context of their birth culture. For instance in Britain they have sharia courts with an "almost legal" status (officially it is called dispute resolution, however dispute resolution can be legally binding under English law). This pleases cultural relativists who do not see a problem with having separate legal systems for people of different cultures living alongside one another. I think it is a travesty, the law is supposed to be absolute, and it is supposed to be fair and to reflect the moral stance of the majority of people, and should not allow cherry picking either. I totally disagree with cultural relativism. It says for example that it is okay for an Aboriginal man to treat his wife as property, since indeed in many Aboriginal cultures wives were traditionally treated as property under tribal law. Or that it's okay for an English/white Aussie to dispossess an Aboriginal man of his lands since traditionally ownership was conditional on "improving" the land, such as fencing it or planting crops, and an Englishman could lose his land legally to a squatter who did these things where the owner did not (this legal argument was used extensively in colonial times).

So in short I agree with assimilation, what you described as driving a white-man car such as a Prius, or wearing suits, although I hope I gave the argument a bit more depth by introducing a (somewhat) parallel situation and trying to explore the issues more thoroughly in that context. However, I would NOT dismiss the racism in American society, I note you did exclude life threatening situations but still I think you have dimisssed the racism too easily. I read an interesting book about mass incarceration and the war on drugs, can't find it now but similar arguments are here: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 ... anos-bibas ... since most blacks now have a criminal record for things like pot use, even though statistically whites use more pot but hardly ever get busted and if they do they get a slap on the wrist and no criminal record ... it's now legal again to deny the best jobs to blacks, effectively making them servants. This was Reagan's coded promise to whites which won him the Presidency. Howard in Australia did a similar thing on boat people.

Having said that I HATE SJW's, Black Lives do Matter and so do White Lives equally! Recent events like whites being "voluntarily" excluded from a university campus for a day of Blacks Only, and the almost-lynching of one brave professor who dared to say this is not okay... are abhorrent to me. Please eliminate racism -- BOTH ways.

Ray

 

[Smurf]

Sorry took me a bit to get back to this.

First I'd like to apologize if my original post came off rude and off the cuff. Was just my original reaction to this.

So yes, conforming to a specific way of acting WOULD be a solution, you're not wrong. That's how you would infiltrate social groups and join people you wouldn't normally be able to. My issue here is that an intermediate or advanced seducer is able to join groups while simultaneously being himself. At least that would be the goal for me. The issue with this strategy when it comes to racial groups is that there shouldn't be discrimination in the first Place (in a perfect world). But since its not that way, I believe the issue is in others accepting black people instead of blacks working to become accepted.

The reason I think this way is because I would probably fall into that category of"white with black skin" as your friends put it and I still would experience racism and profiling because of my look. Two weeks ago I got accused of stealing from a convenience store when I obviously haven't. So I don't see "acting white" as a solution and I haven't seen it be effective yet.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending gang culture or violence - there's a reason that someone looking like a gang member would obviously be tagged as a problem for police. This is a different issue though, if you're not contributing to society positively, rather making a negative impact, then you definitely are drawing the negative energy to yourself and need to look at it as if you yourself are doing something wrong. The issue is that INNOCENT, "normal" blacks are getting tagged as this as well. Its generalization, stereotyping, flawed thinking. If anyone's been in the process of self development or seduction, you'd know that all people are different. You can get BETTER at generalizing and be more or less correct, but its a skill like anything else and when someone who know nothing about a certain type of people makes a sweeping generalization, they do damage to the groups as a whole.

So I'm not saying if someone dresses like a hoodlum they should be safe, they draw that attention and should know what a certain look will bring to them in terms of people and how they will be thought of, but when a whole race gets put in the same box, its a problem.

As for media, I agree, its useless other than stirring up bullshit. The only plus side is that if something largely positive is out on a national scale, it'll get noticed, which is what I THINK BLM is trying to do.

One again I apologize for the end part of my post, out of pocket and uncalled for. Everyone's entitled to an opinion. My issue is that its harder to see how its affecting you if you yourself aren't someone that hate is directed at.

My opinion on BLM is that it lacks focus. To compare, look at the movements from the best 1950's-1970's. Way more focus in what was trying to be achieved (end racism and discrimination). Here? Forces in BLM don't know what they want or how they want to get it. Do we want superiority? Equality? Stop murder and violence aimed at African Americans? Or are we talking racism and prejudice in general? Are we using violence and force to achieve those needs, or do we peacefully protest to achieve a similar effect? Its too widespread and lacks leadership. What I would change is laser focus on what needs to change and how to do it. BLM is divided as a group, whether that division is from within or from outside forces (a little bit of both IMO) that's neither here nor there, its divided. It needs focus and strong leadership, which I'm not willing to provide since I'm not in a place in my life that I can do so.

On a smaller scale, solutions that can be implemented on a person to person level would be to simply not resonate or negatively respond to the hate. In my experience, people that force these issues on me try and instigate me to act in a way that fits their mental model. If I lash out its, "see? All blacks are violent ignorant people!" You have to defuse the situation with calm, and only escalate when the situation calls for it. You don't defeat hate with stronger hate, you defeat it with a calm acceptance. Don't resonate with the hate and less will come to you.

I hope this somewhat clears things up, let me know what you think. Writing this on my phone so hopefully not too jumbled up.

Jake.

 

[Mr.Rob]

Jake,

Hate not responding back in good time but didn't have much time to put much thought into a response until now.

apologize if my original post came off rude and off the cuff. Was just my original reaction to this.

I expected the topic to be controversial and heated so no worries there man.

But since its not that way, I believe the issue is in others accepting black people instead of blacks working to become accepted.

At the end of the day its probably going to require both racial parties to come together before anything productive happens.

The issue is that INNOCENT, "normal" blacks are getting tagged as this as well. Its generalization, stereotyping, flawed thinking. If anyone's been in the process of self development or seduction, you'd know that all people are different. You can get BETTER at generalizing and be more or less correct, but its a skill like anything else and when someone who know nothing about a certain type of people makes a sweeping generalization, they do damage to the groups as a whole.

So I'm not saying if someone dresses like a hoodlum they should be safe, they draw that attention and should know what a certain look will bring to them in terms of people and how they will be thought of, but when a whole race gets put in the same box, its a problem.

Eddie Griffin talks about this in an interview. His proposed solution is that cops should be rotated every 2 years to a desk job (so 2 years active duty followed by 2 years at the desk) to take cops out of the constant charade of policing that makes them jaded and "battle weary" which often causes the instant profiling as a defense mechanism. Interesting to think about.

The only plus side is that if something largely positive is out on a national scale, it'll get noticed, which is what I THINK BLM is trying to do.

Fair enough.

My issue is that its harder to see how its affecting you if you yourself aren't someone that hate is directed at.

It affecting me because I have to get into conversations with smart ambitious people that act like victims and bring up racism to talk about like its a fun topic (though the 90% your around them otherwise their cool folk) and all I know is that I don't agree with their position and I need a better counter argument.

Are we using violence and force to achieve those needs, or do we peacefully protest to achieve a similar effect? Its too widespread and lacks leadership. What I would change is laser focus on what needs to change and how to do it. BLM is divided as a group, whether that division is from within or from outside forces (a little bit of both IMO) that's neither here nor there, its divided. It needs focus and strong leadership, which I'm not willing to provide since I'm not in a place in my life that I can do so.

OK that's a good assessment. You seem to know much more about the movement itself than I do so this is interesting. Your saying its attempting to be productive but its more "rah rah" feel good than any real directed action taken to improve the situation as a whole. Jeez thats such a millennial stereotype lol.

On a smaller scale, solutions that can be implemented on a person to person level would be to simply not resonate or negatively respond to the hate. In my experience, people that force these issues on me try and instigate me to act in a way that fits their mental model. If I lash out its, "see? All blacks are violent ignorant people!" You have to defuse the situation with calm, and only escalate when the situation calls for it. You don't defeat hate with stronger hate, you defeat it with a calm acceptance. Don't resonate with the hate and less will come to you.

Dope. I like it bro.

-Rob