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Need your help in overthinking issue

pks391

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jan 12, 2015
Messages
275
Okay guys,
As i move on the path of removing unwanted processes from my psyche, I want your advice on getting rid of an issue that has been with me since a long time (Many Years)
i.e. my overthinking problem.
Whenever I get confronted with any sort of straightforward/real world issue in my personal life, i tend to think about every single little detail. I keep raising new questions which ultimately leads to headaches, mental fatigue and frustration. I have noticed that i am doing the same in relationships with others too. I tend to think alot about every reaction others give me. i want to stop as some of it leads to a lot of mental rumination that i can clearly use elsewhere.I would like to hear your opinions on this.

If i can learn to control my overthinking, i could use that large amount of brainpower to something far more useful. Some times i feel that i should overthink. My main goal is to learn to consciously control when to overthink. (i.e. Overthinking only when its needed)
Your advice would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
 

Drck

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Messages
1,488
Remember, overthinking may not be bad necessary, a lot of great thinkers are great at it because they - well, they simply think a lot.

First, you might have an underlying anxiety/OCD which makes you think a lot. Thinking a lot and focusing on details is basically your mind's defense mechanism how to deal with anxiety, your mind just wants to keep things under control (by constant thinking), which sort of decreases the anxiety.

There is also a problem with thinking in loops: You take one issue and you think it over and over. It is good if the issue is positive, e.g. you have business, everything is working fine, so you are thinking more and more how to improve your business, and you are making forward with progress.

But if the issue is negative it is bad for you to think in loops, e.g. you go out meet girls but you keep getting rejected - so you fall into negative thinking loop that something is wrong with you, and then you emphasize every single detail that you perceive as wrong and by constantly thinking about it you make a little issue a huge problem. So you want to escape this negative loop of thoughts.

I've actually seen this negative loops here on GC quite often, guys focus on totally unimportant things, they try to master these silly things - while they are totally missing stuff that is much more important... They are simply "stuck in their heads", they created some problems in their heads, and the more they are seeking solution to these problems the more they are emphasizing these problems, making them bigger than they are... Yet the solution is much simple and more effective: Forget the problem and just go talk to girls, smile and talk to them just the way you are...

So again, it may not necessary be a bad thing to think a lot, as long as the person avoids those negative loops.

--------------

With that being said, overthinking may cause you a lot of difficulties, you may easily jump into incorrect conclusions because you over-think simple problem(s) and make them 20x bigger than they really are.

For example, a guy texts a girl 2-3x but she doesn't text back within a time frame that he expects. By constant thinking about it and over-analyzing it, he may then easily jump into incorrect conclusion that she is not interested... He then gets all depressed, he start over-reacting, he start bombarding her with more texts - and as a result she will dump him... On the other hand, if he didn't do anything, just waited without reacting (kept it simple), maybe she would have texted back another day... Who knows? We don't know what is she thinking or doing, we simply can't see her mind...

Hence the "Don't overthink things, keep it simple", which basically means that we need to sort out the information so we don't jump into incorrect conclusions. Another way to say it is keep cool, be patient, have long(er) time frame...


Examples:

Guy A doesn't have any frame, he is impatient, he is over-thinking, over-reacting:
He meets a girl and have great vibes with her. He feels great about her so he texts her, and gets some responses. But she wouldn't go for a date. So he starts over-analyzing things. He starts collecting all the signs that she gave him, he start thinking that he must have done something wrong, that he is not attractive enough... So now he gets all anxious and depressed, all impatient. He is trying to find out how to be more sexy, so now he texts her some sexy messages... He is anxiously awaiting her text for hours, he is trying to do more and more things to impress that girl, so he keeps texting her and texting her - till she stop responding to him...

Yet in reality, she just wasn't in the right mood on that day. Maybe she was busy, just didn't feel like to... By him constantly bombarding her with texts, she realized that he is needy and insecure, so she decided to cut it off - not because she wasn't interested but because he was over-reacting...

So this Guy's frame is really short, he gave her 2 days and then he concluded in his mind that she is not interested. He took her texting and not wanting to go for date too seriously, he perceived it in a negative way, he over-reacted... He "dumped" her in his mind after 2 days of trying, in his mind she became just a cold bitch, and now he is all depressed because he was "rejected"...

Guy B is thinking in much longer time frame, he is is patient, he doesn't react:
He meets the same girl have great vibes with her; He is also excited about her and he texts her, then gets some responses. But she wouldn't go for a date. So he says to himself: Ok, cool, no big deal. I got to go to fitness anyway, tomorrow is another day, and he turns the phone off for couple of hours. He doesn't wait by the phone till she texts back; he goes out, have fun with another girls. Then he goes fishing for the whole day, and finally 3 days later he remembers that girl. Hey, let's text her again tomorrow, let's see what she says this time... She wouldn't go again, so he says to himself: Ok, no big deal. I got other things to do. And again, he waits couple more days and texts her 3rd time, maybe after another 8 days till he sends another text....

She is thinking: Well, I really wasn't in the mood, but this guy seems nice, he is persistent yet he doesn't chase. He's cool and patient, he doesn't really get upset, and he definitely likes me because he keeps in contact with me. Why not give it a try then? This Guy's frame is much longer, he will give her 3-4 more tries in 2 weeks, and then maybe 1 more try in another month. He is persistent MF, he just refuses to give up - yet he keeps it cool, doesn't chase, doesn't take her reactions (or lack of them) seriously at all as she is in his mind just this silly/cute/sexy girl...

So, keep that kind of frame:
* Think long(er) time, days, weeks, not just today or tomorrow. Be patient, keep it cool
* Don't over-react, keep some emotional distance.
* Go fishing, don't sit by the phone, turn it off
* If you are obsessive thinker, select positive ways of thinking. Chose positive loops, avoid negative loops. For example, not: :I am a loser because she didn't text back, and thus I need to work on 10,000 more things". Instead: "It's cool, no big deal, I am a great guy and I will try in 3 days again"...
 

pks391

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jan 12, 2015
Messages
275
Drck said:
Remember, overthinking may not be bad necessary, a lot of great thinkers are great at it because they - well, they simply think a lot.

First, you might have an underlying anxiety/OCD which makes you think a lot. Thinking a lot and focusing on details is basically your mind's defense mechanism how to deal with anxiety, your mind just wants to keep things under control (by constant thinking), which sort of decreases the anxiety.

There is also a problem with thinking in loops: You take one issue and you think it over and over. It is good if the issue is positive, e.g. you have business, everything is working fine, so you are thinking more and more how to improve your business, and you are making forward with progress.

But if the issue is negative it is bad for you to think in loops, e.g. you go out meet girls but you keep getting rejected - so you fall into negative thinking loop that something is wrong with you, and then you emphasize every single detail that you perceive as wrong and by constantly thinking about it you make a little issue a huge problem. So you want to escape this negative loop of thoughts.

I've actually seen this negative loops here on GC quite often, guys focus on totally unimportant things, they try to master these silly things - while they are totally missing stuff that is much more important... They are simply "stuck in their heads", they created some problems in their heads, and the more they are seeking solution to these problems the more they are emphasizing these problems, making them bigger than they are... Yet the solution is much simple and more effective: Forget the problem and just go talk to girls, smile and talk to them just the way you are...

So again, it may not necessary be a bad thing to think a lot, as long as the person avoids those negative loops.

--------------

With that being said, overthinking may cause you a lot of difficulties, you may easily jump into incorrect conclusions because you over-think simple problem(s) and make them 20x bigger than they really are.

For example, a guy texts a girl 2-3x but she doesn't text back within a time frame that he expects. By constant thinking about it and over-analyzing it, he may then easily jump into incorrect conclusion that she is not interested... He then gets all depressed, he start over-reacting, he start bombarding her with more texts - and as a result she will dump him... On the other hand, if he didn't do anything, just waited without reacting (kept it simple), maybe she would have texted back another day... Who knows? We don't know what is she thinking or doing, we simply can't see her mind...

Hence the "Don't overthink things, keep it simple", which basically means that we need to sort out the information so we don't jump into incorrect conclusions. Another way to say it is keep cool, be patient, have long(er) time frame...


Examples:

Guy A doesn't have any frame, he is impatient, he is over-thinking, over-reacting:
He meets a girl and have great vibes with her. He feels great about her so he texts her, and gets some responses. But she wouldn't go for a date. So he starts over-analyzing things. He starts collecting all the signs that she gave him, he start thinking that he must have done something wrong, that he is not attractive enough... So now he gets all anxious and depressed, all impatient. He is trying to find out how to be more sexy, so now he texts her some sexy messages... He is anxiously awaiting her text for hours, he is trying to do more and more things to impress that girl, so he keeps texting her and texting her - till she stop responding to him...

Yet in reality, she just wasn't in the right mood on that day. Maybe she was busy, just didn't feel like to... By him constantly bombarding her with texts, she realized that he is needy and insecure, so she decided to cut it off - not because she wasn't interested but because he was over-reacting...

So this Guy's frame is really short, he gave her 2 days and then he concluded in his mind that she is not interested. He took her texting and not wanting to go for date too seriously, he perceived it in a negative way, he over-reacted... He "dumped" her in his mind after 2 days of trying, in his mind she became just a cold bitch, and now he is all depressed because he was "rejected"...

Guy B is thinking in much longer time frame, he is is patient, he doesn't react:
He meets the same girl have great vibes with her; He is also excited about her and he texts her, then gets some responses. But she wouldn't go for a date. So he says to himself: Ok, cool, no big deal. I got to go to fitness anyway, tomorrow is another day, and he turns the phone off for couple of hours. He doesn't wait by the phone till she texts back; he goes out, have fun with another girls. Then he goes fishing for the whole day, and finally 3 days later he remembers that girl. Hey, let's text her again tomorrow, let's see what she says this time... She wouldn't go again, so he says to himself: Ok, no big deal. I got other things to do. And again, he waits couple more days and texts her 3rd time, maybe after another 8 days till he sends another text....

She is thinking: Well, I really wasn't in the mood, but this guy seems nice, he is persistent yet he doesn't chase. He's cool and patient, he doesn't really get upset, and he definitely likes me because he keeps in contact with me. Why not give it a try then? This Guy's frame is much longer, he will give her 3-4 more tries in 2 weeks, and then maybe 1 more try in another month. He is persistent MF, he just refuses to give up - yet he keeps it cool, doesn't chase, doesn't take her reactions (or lack of them) seriously at all as she is in his mind just this silly/cute/sexy girl...

So, keep that kind of frame:
* Think long(er) time, days, weeks, not just today or tomorrow. Be patient, keep it cool
* Don't over-react, keep some emotional distance.
* Go fishing, don't sit by the phone, turn it off
* If you are obsessive thinker, select positive ways of thinking. Chose positive loops, avoid negative loops. For example, not: :I am a loser because she didn't text back, and thus I need to work on 10,000 more things". Instead: "It's cool, no big deal, I am a great guy and I will try in 3 days again"...
Hey Drck,
Thank You very much for your patient reply. Nice use of examples, it made me understand everything a bit better. Yes, I do feel so too that overthinking in negative loops is very bad for one's mental peace. Moreover, it leads to another big problem and that is worrying.
Do you have any advice on how i could shut my brain off every time it tries to ruminate over unwanted thoughts? Kind of a break the loop thing. Like to just sit down and think nothing for a while and let the brain relax. Something to be done before going to bed.
 

Drck

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Messages
1,488
Do you have any examples of negative/unwanted thoughts?

You basically take the negative thought and try to change it to positive. Sometimes writing it down on a piece of paper helps

Negative: I constantly worry about XYZ, I can't stop
Neutral: I used to worry about ZYZ, now I let go
Positive: I focus more and more on ABC, and thinking about ABC is very productive

Then you simply keep focusing on ABC, start in the morning and evening, then add to it throughout the day, and eventually it will become predominant thought...


------------


As far as "shutting down" brain, that is not so easy. If you have lots of anxiety, your brain is simply constantly running. If we can compare it to a motor in the car, it is as if you kept the motor in high(er) RPM by constantly pressing the gas pedal.

By you trying to stop the unwanted thoughts (shutting the brain down), your brain will get only more anxious. It is as if you kept the gas pedal pressed down - while at the same time you step with your other foot on the brakes. There is lots of conflict between braking while keeping the motor at higher RPM, meaning that you should not try to forcefully stop the brain.

Negative loops is when you have negative thoughts but your brain is running and running (because of anxiety). It is like a car in reverse gear, with high(er) RPM because the gas pedal is pressed. The car keeps moving but it is not optimal move, it is much more difficult backing up than keep moving straight forward. Backing up is uncomfortable, you can't see clearly and it simply creates lots of more anxiety.

Positive loop is when you change your negative thoughts to positive by shifting the gear forward (exchanging negative thoughts to positive). Your brain is still running at higher RPM because of anxiety, but at the same time you are moving forward, which is 50x more comfortable than backing up. You can sort of even relax because it is a constructive move forward.

Relaxation is when you release the foot from gas and shift into neutral. You simply slow down the RPM, you release the anxiety. Many people try to manage their anxiety with medication, and/or drugs. I believe that Meditation and Relaxation is much better choice.

* Sit down into comfortable position, close your eyes, release all tension in your body... You can sit in the chair or couch, but IMO it is much better to sit on the floor, chose some yoga or stretching position.

* Start systematically relaxing all your muscles; start with feet, calves, thighs, abdomen, neck, facial muscles, eye lids, even your tongue... Relax one group after another. Relax, let everything go (release pedal and thoughts will slow down on their own). If you have difficulties relaxing muscles, simply tighten them up first and then let go - e.g. clench your fists hard for couple of seconds, and then just let go. Tighten the whole body as much as you can for couple of seconds, and then let go... That's relaxation...

* Once you release all tension in your muscles, your mind should start relaxing as well. Let go of all worries. If you worry about future, let go off future. Let go of all girls, all problems... Let go of all expectations... Forget the past, past is gone.. Simply empty your mind, let go.. Focus on Now, on this moment, on the very second that is happening Now...

* Once you are more relaxed, start focusing on your breath. Usually people who are anxious have more shallower breathing, they have lots of tension in chest area. So again, relax your chest, relax your breathing, and focus more on breathing... Try deeper and slower breathing, breath to the bottom of your stomach. All should be just relaxed, no effort...

* Don't force it, but you should be feeling good as well, e.g you can try to smile mildly, which means that your mood should be more positive (without forcing it)

* You can practice imagination if you want to. You don't have to but IMO it is a good practice. Imagine that you are at some nice place, beach or whatever you like, and relaxing. Use all of your senses: your eyes see the beach, sand, the blue ocean, clouds,... Feel the heat from Sun... Hear the ocean, birds,... Smell the fresh ocean air,.. You can feel the air in your face, on your body, you can touch the sand with your hand, feel the texture... It is peaceful, relaxing, no worries... It is good practice imagination, you can put some meditation music to it...

* You can add autosuggestions to it, the classical and good one is "I'm feeling better and better every day". Don't underestimate those autosuggestions, the are very powerful

* Focus on awareness. Be aware of your body, of the tension in your muscles. Be aware of the gravity, how it is pulling you down towards ground, how the ground presses against your body. Be aware of your skin. Be aware of your breath. Be aware of your thoughts, of your feelings, of the sounds around you, of the temperature.... Of the environment, what is happening around you... If you ever read anything about Buddhism, you know that Awareness is the key...

So basically that is relaxation, meditation in nutshell... There is nothing to achieve in meditation, no goals to accomplish... It is just letting go of all the tension and stress, of all the anxiety and worries, of all the depressive thoughts while filling your mind with peaceful thoughts... Releasing the gas pedal, shifting the gear to neutral, releasing anxiety and slowing down all the obsessive thoughts...

Do it in the morning, and definitely in the evening before you go to sleep. The more you practice the better. You don't have to practice nonstop, once you get some practice it is IMO much better to do 10 relaxations like that 3 minutes each per day, rather than 1 relaxation lasting 30 minutes...

Use Magic. Magic is not reading about it and understanding it. There is nothing to understand about Meditation, there is nothing exciting on it, it may actually sound quite boring especially for people who used to run their brain in high RPM. The True Magic is to DO IT, that's when you really understand it...
 

pks391

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jan 12, 2015
Messages
275
Drck said:
Do you have any examples of negative/unwanted thoughts?

You basically take the negative thought and try to change it to positive. Sometimes writing it down on a piece of paper helps

Negative: I constantly worry about XYZ, I can't stop
Neutral: I used to worry about ZYZ, now I let go
Positive: I focus more and more on ABC, and thinking about ABC is very productive

Then you simply keep focusing on ABC, start in the morning and evening, then add to it throughout the day, and eventually it will become predominant thought...


------------


As far as "shutting down" brain, that is not so easy. If you have lots of anxiety, your brain is simply constantly running. If we can compare it to a motor in the car, it is as if you kept the motor in high(er) RPM by constantly pressing the gas pedal.

By you trying to stop the unwanted thoughts (shutting the brain down), your brain will get only more anxious. It is as if you kept the gas pedal pressed down - while at the same time you step with your other foot on the brakes. There is lots of conflict between braking while keeping the motor at higher RPM, meaning that you should not try to forcefully stop the brain.

Negative loops is when you have negative thoughts but your brain is running and running (because of anxiety). It is like a car in reverse gear, with high(er) RPM because the gas pedal is pressed. The car keeps moving but it is not optimal move, it is much more difficult backing up than keep moving straight forward. Backing up is uncomfortable, you can't see clearly and it simply creates lots of more anxiety.

Positive loop is when you change your negative thoughts to positive by shifting the gear forward (exchanging negative thoughts to positive). Your brain is still running at higher RPM because of anxiety, but at the same time you are moving forward, which is 50x more comfortable than backing up. You can sort of even relax because it is a constructive move forward.

Relaxation is when you release the foot from gas and shift into neutral. You simply slow down the RPM, you release the anxiety. Many people try to manage their anxiety with medication, and/or drugs. I believe that Meditation and Relaxation is much better choice.

* Sit down into comfortable position, close your eyes, release all tension in your body... You can sit in the chair or couch, but IMO it is much better to sit on the floor, chose some yoga or stretching position.

* Start systematically relaxing all your muscles; start with feet, calves, thighs, abdomen, neck, facial muscles, eye lids, even your tongue... Relax one group after another. Relax, let everything go (release pedal and thoughts will slow down on their own). If you have difficulties relaxing muscles, simply tighten them up first and then let go - e.g. clench your fists hard for couple of seconds, and then just let go. Tighten the whole body as much as you can for couple of seconds, and then let go... That's relaxation...

* Once you release all tension in your muscles, your mind should start relaxing as well. Let go of all worries. If you worry about future, let go off future. Let go of all girls, all problems... Let go of all expectations... Forget the past, past is gone.. Simply empty your mind, let go.. Focus on Now, on this moment, on the very second that is happening Now...

* Once you are more relaxed, start focusing on your breath. Usually people who are anxious have more shallower breathing, they have lots of tension in chest area. So again, relax your chest, relax your breathing, and focus more on breathing... Try deeper and slower breathing, breath to the bottom of your stomach. All should be just relaxed, no effort...

* Don't force it, but you should be feeling good as well, e.g you can try to smile mildly, which means that your mood should be more positive (without forcing it)

* You can practice imagination if you want to. You don't have to but IMO it is a good practice. Imagine that you are at some nice place, beach or whatever you like, and relaxing. Use all of your senses: your eyes see the beach, sand, the blue ocean, clouds,... Feel the heat from Sun... Hear the ocean, birds,... Smell the fresh ocean air,.. You can feel the air in your face, on your body, you can touch the sand with your hand, feel the texture... It is peaceful, relaxing, no worries... It is good practice imagination, you can put some meditation music to it...

* You can add autosuggestions to it, the classical and good one is "I'm feeling better and better every day". Don't underestimate those autosuggestions, the are very powerful

* Focus on awareness. Be aware of your body, of the tension in your muscles. Be aware of the gravity, how it is pulling you down towards ground, how the ground presses against your body. Be aware of your skin. Be aware of your breath. Be aware of your thoughts, of your feelings, of the sounds around you, of the temperature.... Of the environment, what is happening around you... If you ever read anything about Buddhism, you know that Awareness is the key...

So basically that is relaxation, meditation in nutshell... There is nothing to achieve in meditation, no goals to accomplish... It is just letting go of all the tension and stress, of all the anxiety and worries, of all the depressive thoughts while filling your mind with peaceful thoughts... Releasing the gas pedal, shifting the gear to neutral, releasing anxiety and slowing down all the obsessive thoughts...

Do it in the morning, and definitely in the evening before you go to sleep. The more you practice the better. You don't have to practice nonstop, once you get some practice it is IMO much better to do 10 relaxations like that 3 minutes each per day, rather than 1 relaxation lasting 30 minutes...

Use Magic. Magic is not reading about it and understanding it. There is nothing to understand about Meditation, there is nothing exciting on it, it may actually sound quite boring especially for people who used to run their brain in high RPM. The True Magic is to DO IT, that's when you really understand it...
Drck,
I am definitely going to try out the meditation technique shown by you. I was always trying to 'force stop my brain from all this overthinking, but it did not do very good as my brain would simply start revving again. (as you explained with the help of the engine example). However, i am going to try positive reinforcement and meditation and see how much of a change it induces in my thought processes.
Thanks alot again for your valuable suggestions/advice. I really appreciate it!!!!!!!!!!
 

Lotus

Modern Human
Modern Human
Joined
Nov 12, 2014
Messages
624
I don't have much to add here, just wanted to make a note on decisions in general, which is why a lot of the time we ruminate. Running off Drck's example on texting. A lot of the time we make decisions such as over texting and try to remedy them, by texting more. The thing is, part of good decision making is sticking to that decision!

Instead trust yourself. Trust the original decision you made, but if you find you are making repeated bad decisions change your process.

When you overthink in a situation like that it shows you don't trust yourself. Get to a point where you do.

From my IPhone

Lotus
 

pks391

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jan 12, 2015
Messages
275
Lotus said:
I don't have much to add here, just wanted to make a note on decisions in general, which is why a lot of the time we ruminate. Running off Drck's example on texting. A lot of the time we make decisions such as over texting and try to remedy them, by texting more. The thing is, part of good decision making is sticking to that decision!

Instead trust yourself. Trust the original decision you made, but if you find you are making repeated bad decisions change your process.

When you overthink in a situation like that it shows you don't trust yourself. Get to a point where you do.

From my IPhone

Lotus
Ill be sure to keep that in mind. Thanks Lotus.
 

Lowes

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Apr 25, 2015
Messages
52
Hey man,

Coincidentally enough, I'm doing the exact same thing right now -- I'm removing limiting mentalities, including the most evil of them all, overthinking. I overthink things so much that it becomes painful; it paralyzes me, preventing me from doing anything. I've been like this my whole life, but I'm currently fighting it to the best of my abilities, which has taught me quite a lot. So, as someone with an insider's perspective on its crippling effects, here are my thoughts:

1. Accept it as a part of you, while knowing you can change it.

pks391 said:
If i can learn to control my overthinking, i could use that large amount of brainpower to something far more useful. Some times i feel that i should overthink. My main goal is to learn to consciously control when to overthink. (i.e. Overthinking only when its needed)

As evidenced by what you said, you're having no trouble doing this. After all, it is a fundamental aspect of your brain, since every single thought you have runs through the "overthinking" filter. The goal is keeping the positive effects of overthinking (being insightful and noticing things most don't) and limiting the negative ones (annoying yourself with your constant thoughts and paralyzing yourself in thought).

2. Keep yourself busy with things you enjoy.

My overthinking gets much worse whenever I have a lot of free time. But when I'm busy, I keep my mind on my work or activities. I'm not saying to completely ignore your thoughts by burying yourself in work; instead, find a happy medium. This way, if you start overthinking things, you can do these activities to take your mind off it, and if you are active for long periods of time, you can look forward to having down time where you can think again.

3. If you're ever in a social situation and you start overthinking something, relax.

Yes, this is way easier said than done. But I've noticed that, the more I overthink things during a social situation, the worse I behave. When this happens, my body tenses up because I want everything to go perfectly, and my speech and actions become more forced. Everything goes up in smoke.

So if this starts happening, I force myself to relax and loosen up my body. I pretend like I'm talking to close friends.

4. Only focus on a few things at a time.

When starting off with my self-improvement, I first focused on having a sexy walk, having confident body language, and staying very motionless when sitting. That was it. When I got these down, I focused on having powerful eye contact, making my voice deep, and speaking slowly. Then I got these down, and worked on a few more things. And so on.

You may be more advanced than me, and have long ago established your fundamentals, but the basic concepts still apply. As mentioned above, the more things I'm thinking about during an interaction, the worse the conversation becomes. My most awkward interactions have come when I'm juggling advanced conversational skills, unpracticed techniques, and the like.

In other words, we overthink things when we are inexperienced.

I no longer have to think about my basic fundamentals, since I've already got them down, but I still have to think about things like socializing, since I'm not yet comfortable with them.

So the fact that you're studying peoples' reactions means it's something that still puzzles you. But once you have more and more experience with their reactions, you'll no longer have to think about them, since reading them will be second nature by then.

In the meantime, I'd recommend focusing solely on basic conversational skills and the reactions these give you. With a very specific focus like this, you can study reactions until you no longer overthink them.

Of course, you have to avoid perfectionism; this is a trap I keep reminding myself to avoid. In other words, don't focus only on reading people's reactions for one year straight until you know literally everything there is to know about reactions, and only then move on to other aspects of socializing. Mastering stuff like that will take years. The goal is to get proficient enough at something where you've stopped overthinking it, even though you may not have mastered it yet. From all I've learned from reading GC, moderately experienced social artists are at this stage -- they generally understand everything about socializing, and they don't stress about it. But they are not masters because they haven't fully mastered anything yet.

5. Start speaking and writing as concisely as possible.

This is minor, but it helps. Our thoughts manifest themselves in how we write and speak, so cutting down on these will help focus our thoughts.

Whenever texting or writing something, cut it down to the bare concepts and wording. For example, if your sentence is:

"Hey Joe, I got a fever while on my skiing trip last week, so I'm feeling a bit under the weather at the moment. Can you do me a solid and pick up my groceries for me this time?"

Make it more concise. Cut all the fluff and useless information.

"Joe, I'm a bit sick, would you mind grabbing my groceries?"

While speaking, do the same -- cut out the filler and leave the bare concepts. But speaking this way takes much more effort, so I'd recommend doing it while writing first.

6. Practice making quick decisions, and stick with these decisions.

Let's say your roommate asks you to drive him to the grocery store to get milk. The store closes in 15 minutes. You need milk for the morning, but you're also very tired.

To people who overthink, situations like these can be difficult. "Should I get milk? If I don't, I won't have any in the morning. So then I'd have to run to the store right after waking up, which would be painful. But I'm tired enough as it is right now. Or maybe I could skip breakfast tomorrow?"

And by the time you decide, the store is closed.

So, anytime small decisions are required of you, quickly weigh the possibilities in your head, and make a snap decision. Of course, this won't work for more complicated matters, but you can use it more and more over time. After training your brain to make small decisions quickly, you'll start doing it for slightly bigger decisions too, like choosing to talk to a girl even if you're not feeling totally up to it.

And when you make the decision, stick with it, and don't second guess yourself. Don't drive to the store then say, "On second thought, I'll do it tomorrow." And don't say, "I made the wrong choice, what was I thinking?" You didn't make the right or wrong choice, you simply made a choice. Afterwards, if you stillregret it ("I should have stayed home; I was ready to fall asleep"), don't blame yourself for making the decision. Just file the result away for future reference when making other decisions.

7. Teach yourself to act, rather than wait.

This ties in with #6. Although there are no "right" or "wrong" decisions, as I mentioned above, you should prioritize action over inaction. If we overthink whether or not we should do something, we get so caught up in our thoughts that we take the safe route and do nothing. But actually doing things is often the better option. To paraphrase the famous saying: on our death beds, we don't regret the things we did do, we regret the things we didn't do.

Going to the grocery at night might be a pain... but if you don't go, you'll regret it in the morning, when you do have to go.

You might be sick, and not want to go to a concert... but what will you remember a month later? Spending the night sick at home, or being at a concert?

You may not want to talk to a girl... but what do you have to lose? Sure, she could reject you, but she could also be the most wonderful girl you've ever met.

Inaction feels good at first, but the feeling only lasts for a short while. Action may be tougher, but it is infinitely more worth it in the end.

Of course, there are exceptions to this rule -- if you've just pulled two all-nighters in a row, you're going to go to the store in the morning, and if you've been bed-ridden for a week with an illness, you're going to skip the concert. And obviously, no big decisions should be made on whims.

But in general, this is a huge way to stop overthinking. Instead of worrying about all the possible outcomes of a situation or wondering how to deal with them, you plunge yourself in head-first, giving you experiences you otherwise would not have had. This helps you learn things faster, which makes you more comfortable in different situations, which stops you from overthinking these situations. And there will always be time after the fact to reflect.

8. Learn to accept disorganization, imperfection, and being uncomfortable.

Personally, I overthink things because I want to organize the world, so to speak -- I want to make sense of everything and mentally organize it in a straight-forward, logically way.

However, after all my years of trying to organize everything, there is still far, far more disorder and imperfection than order and perfection, both in my life, and in the world. It's tough to think about, but it's a fact of life that must be accepted. Finding perfection is impossible.

Furthermore, I have to accept my discomfort in certain situations. I'm most at peace when everything feels organized... the only problem is, this has never happened. So in the back of my mind, I'm always thinking of more ways to make things organized, making me very preoccupied with the future, hindering my ability to think clearly in the present.

I'm guessing you're probably the same in many ways -- you want to make sense of people, relationships, everything. Some of us are just built like that. We have to accept the imperfection in ourselves and the world and learn to enjoy the present for what it is, even if it isn't completely organized. And this is hard to do, but our lives will never be completely organized, so it's pointless to try to make them so.

9. If you have any ocd-like tendencies, gradually force yourself to cope with them.

You may not be like this, but ocd-like behaviors can also be a result of overthinking.

Here's a personal example: I've always been obsessed with saving power. This means that, whenever I leave a room, my preference is to turn off my lights, computer screen and speakers, keyboard, and mouse, even if I'm leaving the room for 30 seconds. And I'm not even an eco-freak. My logic used to be, "Every little bit counts, and I don't want to waste any electricity. Also, I don't want to waste my family's money, since turning off devices will cut down costs on the electric bill..." and so on. But this got super annoying. So I began leaving everything on, then left the room for 30 seconds. I got comfortable with this, then did it for a minute. And so on.

If anything like this troubles you, I'd recommend doing the same.

10. Research thinking errors.

There are a ton of places online (like Wikipedia) where you can read about basic errors we often make while thinking.

In fact, here's a link to 10 right here: http://powerstates.com/10-cognitive-thinking-errors/ (And there are more errors than this if you search the web.)

I make many of these errors myself, and a lot of them are roots behind overthinking. Learning what they are is a huge help in fighting them.

---

That's everything I can think of for now; I'll add more tips if they occur to me. In the meantime, can you specify a little more about your overthinking? Do you want to organize everything or have any ocd tendencies? Do you make tons of spreadsheets and use lots of post-it notes? Do you have any creative outlets to let out your thoughts? Let me know; stuff like this is very interesting to me.

Know that you're not the only one struggling with this -- I have to constantly remind myself to do all of the things I listed above. And don't expect perfection; this won't be solved overnight.
 

pks391

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jan 12, 2015
Messages
275
Lowes said:
Hey man,

Coincidentally enough, I'm doing the exact same thing right now -- I'm removing limiting mentalities, including the most evil of them all, overthinking. I overthink things so much that it becomes painful; it paralyzes me, preventing me from doing anything. I've been like this my whole life, but I'm currently fighting it to the best of my abilities, which has taught me quite a lot. So, as someone with an insider's perspective on its crippling effects, here are my thoughts:

1. Accept it as a part of you, while knowing you can change it.

pks391 said:
If i can learn to control my overthinking, i could use that large amount of brainpower to something far more useful. Some times i feel that i should overthink. My main goal is to learn to consciously control when to overthink. (i.e. Overthinking only when its needed)

As evidenced by what you said, you're having no trouble doing this. After all, it is a fundamental aspect of your brain, since every single thought you have runs through the "overthinking" filter. The goal is keeping the positive effects of overthinking (being insightful and noticing things most don't) and limiting the negative ones (annoying yourself with your constant thoughts and paralyzing yourself in thought).

2. Keep yourself busy with things you enjoy.

My overthinking gets much worse whenever I have a lot of free time. But when I'm busy, I keep my mind on my work or activities. I'm not saying to completely ignore your thoughts by burying yourself in work; instead, find a happy medium. This way, if you start overthinking things, you can do these activities to take your mind off it, and if you are active for long periods of time, you can look forward to having down time where you can think again.

3. If you're ever in a social situation and you start overthinking something, relax.

Yes, this is way easier said than done. But I've noticed that, the more I overthink things during a social situation, the worse I behave. When this happens, my body tenses up because I want everything to go perfectly, and my speech and actions become more forced. Everything goes up in smoke.

So if this starts happening, I force myself to relax and loosen up my body. I pretend like I'm talking to close friends.

4. Only focus on a few things at a time.

When starting off with my self-improvement, I first focused on having a sexy walk, having confident body language, and staying very motionless when sitting. That was it. When I got these down, I focused on having powerful eye contact, making my voice deep, and speaking slowly. Then I got these down, and worked on a few more things. And so on.

You may be more advanced than me, and have long ago established your fundamentals, but the basic concepts still apply. As mentioned above, the more things I'm thinking about during an interaction, the worse the conversation becomes. My most awkward interactions have come when I'm juggling advanced conversational skills, unpracticed techniques, and the like.

In other words, we overthink things when we are inexperienced.

I no longer have to think about my basic fundamentals, since I've already got them down, but I still have to think about things like socializing, since I'm not yet comfortable with them.

So the fact that you're studying peoples' reactions means it's something that still puzzles you. But once you have more and more experience with their reactions, you'll no longer have to think about them, since reading them will be second nature by then.

In the meantime, I'd recommend focusing solely on basic conversational skills and the reactions these give you. With a very specific focus like this, you can study reactions until you no longer overthink them.

Of course, you have to avoid perfectionism; this is a trap I keep reminding myself to avoid. In other words, don't focus only on reading people's reactions for one year straight until you know literally everything there is to know about reactions, and only then move on to other aspects of socializing. Mastering stuff like that will take years. The goal is to get proficient enough at something where you've stopped overthinking it, even though you may not have mastered it yet. From all I've learned from reading GC, moderately experienced social artists are at this stage -- they generally understand everything about socializing, and they don't stress about it. But they are not masters because they haven't fully mastered anything yet.

5. Start speaking and writing as concisely as possible.

This is minor, but it helps. Our thoughts manifest themselves in how we write and speak, so cutting down on these will help focus our thoughts.

Whenever texting or writing something, cut it down to the bare concepts and wording. For example, if your sentence is:

"Hey Joe, I got a fever while on my skiing trip last week, so I'm feeling a bit under the weather at the moment. Can you do me a solid and pick up my groceries for me this time?"

Make it more concise. Cut all the fluff and useless information.

"Joe, I'm a bit sick, would you mind grabbing my groceries?"

While speaking, do the same -- cut out the filler and leave the bare concepts. But speaking this way takes much more effort, so I'd recommend doing it while writing first.

6. Practice making quick decisions, and stick with these decisions.

Let's say your roommate asks you to drive him to the grocery store to get milk. The store closes in 15 minutes. You need milk for the morning, but you're also very tired.

To people who overthink, situations like these can be difficult. "Should I get milk? If I don't, I won't have any in the morning. So then I'd have to run to the store right after waking up, which would be painful. But I'm tired enough as it is right now. Or maybe I could skip breakfast tomorrow?"

And by the time you decide, the store is closed.

So, anytime small decisions are required of you, quickly weigh the possibilities in your head, and make a snap decision. Of course, this won't work for more complicated matters, but you can use it more and more over time. After training your brain to make small decisions quickly, you'll start doing it for slightly bigger decisions too, like choosing to talk to a girl even if you're not feeling totally up to it.

And when you make the decision, stick with it, and don't second guess yourself. Don't drive to the store then say, "On second thought, I'll do it tomorrow." And don't say, "I made the wrong choice, what was I thinking?" You didn't make the right or wrong choice, you simply made a choice. Afterwards, if you stillregret it ("I should have stayed home; I was ready to fall asleep"), don't blame yourself for making the decision. Just file the result away for future reference when making other decisions.

7. Teach yourself to act, rather than wait.

This ties in with #6. Although there are no "right" or "wrong" decisions, as I mentioned above, you should prioritize action over inaction. If we overthink whether or not we should do something, we get so caught up in our thoughts that we take the safe route and do nothing. But actually doing things is often the better option. To paraphrase the famous saying: on our death beds, we don't regret the things we did do, we regret the things we didn't do.

Going to the grocery at night might be a pain... but if you don't go, you'll regret it in the morning, when you do have to go.

You might be sick, and not want to go to a concert... but what will you remember a month later? Spending the night sick at home, or being at a concert?

You may not want to talk to a girl... but what do you have to lose? Sure, she could reject you, but she could also be the most wonderful girl you've ever met.

Inaction feels good at first, but the feeling only lasts for a short while. Action may be tougher, but it is infinitely more worth it in the end.

Of course, there are exceptions to this rule -- if you've just pulled two all-nighters in a row, you're going to go to the store in the morning, and if you've been bed-ridden for a week with an illness, you're going to skip the concert. And obviously, no big decisions should be made on whims.

But in general, this is a huge way to stop overthinking. Instead of worrying about all the possible outcomes of a situation or wondering how to deal with them, you plunge yourself in head-first, giving you experiences you otherwise would not have had. This helps you learn things faster, which makes you more comfortable in different situations, which stops you from overthinking these situations. And there will always be time after the fact to reflect.

8. Learn to accept disorganization, imperfection, and being uncomfortable.

Personally, I overthink things because I want to organize the world, so to speak -- I want to make sense of everything and mentally organize it in a straight-forward, logically way.

However, after all my years of trying to organize everything, there is still far, far more disorder and imperfection than order and perfection, both in my life, and in the world. It's tough to think about, but it's a fact of life that must be accepted. Finding perfection is impossible.

Furthermore, I have to accept my discomfort in certain situations. I'm most at peace when everything feels organized... the only problem is, this has never happened. So in the back of my mind, I'm always thinking of more ways to make things organized, making me very preoccupied with the future, hindering my ability to think clearly in the present.

I'm guessing you're probably the same in many ways -- you want to make sense of people, relationships, everything. Some of us are just built like that. We have to accept the imperfection in ourselves and the world and learn to enjoy the present for what it is, even if it isn't completely organized. And this is hard to do, but our lives will never be completely organized, so it's pointless to try to make them so.

9. If you have any ocd-like tendencies, gradually force yourself to cope with them.

You may not be like this, but ocd-like behaviors can also be a result of overthinking.

Here's a personal example: I've always been obsessed with saving power. This means that, whenever I leave a room, my preference is to turn off my lights, computer screen and speakers, keyboard, and mouse, even if I'm leaving the room for 30 seconds. And I'm not even an eco-freak. My logic used to be, "Every little bit counts, and I don't want to waste any electricity. Also, I don't want to waste my family's money, since turning off devices will cut down costs on the electric bill..." and so on. But this got super annoying. So I began leaving everything on, then left the room for 30 seconds. I got comfortable with this, then did it for a minute. And so on.

If anything like this troubles you, I'd recommend doing the same.

10. Research thinking errors.

There are a ton of places online (like Wikipedia) where you can read about basic errors we often make while thinking.

In fact, here's a link to 10 right here: http://powerstates.com/10-cognitive-thinking-errors/ (And there are more errors than this if you search the web.)

I make many of these errors myself, and a lot of them are roots behind overthinking. Learning what they are is a huge help in fighting them.

---

That's everything I can think of for now; I'll add more tips if they occur to me. In the meantime, can you specify a little more about your overthinking? Do you want to organize everything or have any ocd tendencies? Do you make tons of spreadsheets and use lots of post-it notes? Do you have any creative outlets to let out your thoughts? Let me know; stuff like this is very interesting to me.

Know that you're not the only one struggling with this -- I have to constantly remind myself to do all of the things I listed above. And don't expect perfection; this won't be solved overnight.
Hey Lowes,
The information you gave me was very detailed and analytical. It contained a lot of useful stuff which will help me achieve my goal. Thanks.
My overthinking problem basically spans from a need to know every single detail behind anything. While this is extremely useful and has helped out a lot, it drains me of all mental energy. As you iterated, it gets worse when I am idle and have nothing to do. I tend to have overthinking in all critical parts of my life, be it my work, studies or relationships with others. While none of it was necessarily bad, I always feel the need I need to control it once in a while and tone down my brain and tell it to relax.
Sometimes, multiple instances and thoughts run through my mind at once and then lots of stuff happens. For one, my brain's thinking becomes clouded as a result or 'brain fog' as I could describe it. Moreover, the strain of overthinking already, coupled with the brain fog leaves me stuck and mentally fatigued leading to mental stress, mental fatigue and procrastination. It curiously also causes another issue and that is I am unable to establish an 'order' or 'sequence' of the process inside of my head.
I don't have any OCD tendencies at all and my overthinking never has let me be stuck in any social situation. I'm pretty comfortable socializing that way. But yes, occasionally as you mentioned, I too need to practice making quick decisions, that is the part I suck at the most.
You were curious to know my process of overthinking yes? Well when i really, really get into overthinking a situation, i tend to use a pen and paper and draw timelines and flowcharts, running multiple scenarios in my head then calculating probabilities of which situation is most likely to occur etc. It has worked many times but sometimes it gets too much and leaves me on the side of inaction and anxiety.
I do have creative outlets, but I do not use them to battle this problem. I sketch stuff, listen to music, sometimes I get lost in deep thought.
I don't crave organization as such, but I like it if my things are in order, it just feels comfy. I am very messy and lazy.
Basically, I do not want to completely stop this overthinking, but i want to learn to control it so that at the right time i can use it to gain the 'edge' i require. Conscious control of this ability is indeed a useful skill to have.
If you need any help from me in solving any of your issues with your problem, please feel free to ask me.
Thanks again for the feedback.
 

Lowes

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Apr 25, 2015
Messages
52
pks391 said:
My overthinking problem basically spans from a need to know every single detail behind anything. While this is extremely useful and has helped out a lot, it drains me of all mental energy. As you iterated, it gets worse when I am idle and have nothing to do. I tend to have overthinking in all critical parts of my life, be it my work, studies or relationships with others. While none of it was necessarily bad, I always feel the need I need to control it once in a while and tone down my brain and tell it to relax.
Sometimes, multiple instances and thoughts run through my mind at once and then lots of stuff happens. For one, my brain's thinking becomes clouded as a result or 'brain fog' as I could describe it. Moreover, the strain of overthinking already, coupled with the brain fog leaves me stuck and mentally fatigued leading to mental stress, mental fatigue and procrastination. It curiously also causes another issue and that is I am unable to establish an 'order' or 'sequence' of the process inside of my head.

I see; you're a very detailed-oriented person. This is definitely a great benefit in many ways, but like you said, it also comes with a price.

It seems that your thoughts gain negative momentum -- you start to overthink something, then you get stressed about it, then you don't act because of stress... and it keeps getting worse. I often get like this myself. They key is keeping yourself active so that you can prevent bad thoughts and can practice acting rather than thinking.

pks391 said:
I don't have any OCD tendencies at all and my overthinking never has let me be stuck in any social situation. I'm pretty comfortable socializing that way. But yes, occasionally as you mentioned, I too need to practice making quick decisions, that is the part I suck at the most.

Good to hear. OCD tendencies are very annoying. It's also good that you're calm in social situations.

Yes, making quick decisions is pretty difficult. Luckily, they pop up very often and are often inconsequential, so you'll get a lot of practice making them.

pks391 said:
You were curious to know my process of overthinking yes? Well when i really, really get into overthinking a situation, i tend to use a pen and paper and draw timelines and flowcharts, running multiple scenarios in my head then calculating probabilities of which situation is most likely to occur etc. It has worked many times but sometimes it gets too much and leaves me on the side of inaction and anxiety. I do have creative outlets, but I do not use them to battle this problem. I sketch stuff, listen to music, sometimes I get lost in deep thought.

I'm like this -- I make lists and pre-plan orders of things in my head. But yeah, it gets to the point where it just makes me anxious and annoyed.

Also, it's great to hear you have creative outlets. You can actually implement these into your Byronic, vulnerable personality. I've been playing around with Byronic traits a bit, and it's always great to seem normal... then briefly reveal how deep/creative you are. It sets a bit of a "tortured genius" vibe -- you're a cool dude on the surface, but beneath that, you're weighed down by thought and your analysis. It's very captivating and mysterious.

pks391 said:
I don't crave organization as such, but I like it if my things are in order, it just feels comfy. I am very messy and lazy.

Interesting. I like order, but I'm not obsessive about it. And my thoughts sometimes bog me down so much where keeping order feels like too much, so I don't.

pks391 said:
Basically, I do not want to completely stop this overthinking, but i want to learn to control it so that at the right time i can use it to gain the 'edge' i require. Conscious control of this ability is indeed a useful skill to have.

Yes, accomplishing this would maximize the good of overthinking and minimize the bad.

pks391 said:
If you need any help from me in solving any of your issues with your problem, please feel free to ask me.
Thanks again for the feedback.

Sure thing, man. We're in this together, and like I said, I'm still fighting it myself.

One more thing to add: meditation is great to calm yourself. Even just breathing slowly and clearing your mind works wonders.

Do you have any tips of your own for how you deal with overthinking? I'd love to hear your take.
 
a good date brings a smile to your lips... and hers

pks391

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jan 12, 2015
Messages
275
Also, it's great to hear you have creative outlets. You can actually implement these into your Byronic, vulnerable personality. I've been playing around with Byronic traits a bit, and it's always great to seem normal... then briefly reveal how deep/creative you are. It sets a bit of a "tortured genius" vibe -- you're a cool dude on the surface, but beneath that, you're weighed down by thought and your analysis. It's very captivating and mysterious.
I tend to do this alot subconsciously, many people are taken aback. Byronic tendencies infact are a huge theme, especially in anime!!!! LOL, you want to learn how to be byronic then watch anime. Especially ones like Bleach. You will find tons of byronic characters there.
Do you have any tips of your own for how you deal with overthinking? I'd love to hear your take.
On my own, i have none since i have been taking the solutions offered in this thread. Up till now I had no 'roadmap' or direction to gain control, but i have started implementing meditation, breathing and the other techniques described by you guys in this thread. But there is one thing that always works for me: long walks with music, any music but try some action music or power music and preferably the seaside or some park....you can literally feel the thoughts rearranging themselves back in place inside your head.
Keep up your efforts I'm sure you will get through.
 
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