Next Steps

[longerjt]

New to the forum. Have covered much of the site core material.

Have been seeing a hot girl for about 10 months. Sex is great and at times we have told each other we love one another. Long distance relationship and we see each other every 2-3 weeks. Recently she seems to have cooled, not returning texts, low engagement, etc. The investment level seems to have become depleted. Suggestions?

 

[longerjt]

A little more info here. Looking for how to maintain investment on a more long term basis. So with a girl you have been seeing for a long time and obviously the mystery begins to fade. How do you grow the investment and control the balance in power?

 

[Chase]

JT-

This is pretty normal with long-distance relationships - they're difficult to maintain as time goes on. There usually needs to be some hope or prospect of closing the distance sometime soon.

You're doing it the right way for stretching out attraction/engagement in the relationship while you're long-distance - seeing each other every 2 to 3 weeks. It's really important you provide a great experience for her every time she sees you though, as much as possible - incredible sex, lots of orgasms for her, and lots of high quality connection and bonding time with just the two of you getting a lot of eye and body contact.

Long-distance relationships tend to follow a couple different patterns:

• 1. One of the partners decides that what he/she is getting isn't worth the time he/she is putting in to get it, and begins withdrawing investment.
  
  2. One of the partners meets someone else much closer by who's exciting and intriguing, and this person supplants the distant partner's role.
  
  3. One of the partners decides that he/she simply cannot stand being apart from the other any longer, and moves to where the other partner is.

You usually need #3 to happen for things to work out long-term, and you need it to be her coming to you (if you go to her, the balance of power tips strongly in your favor, and you've lost whatever challenge / intrigue you had). If she isn't crazy about finding a way to come be near you permanently, it really just ends up being a game of "how long can you hold onto her."

The one exception: when both partners are living in areas where the dating pool is small / the choice of replacement options is slim. Simple supply and demand... if she's in a small town where no other guy's going to come along and scoop her away (or tempt her to let herself be scooped away), and you're working on an oil rig where it's just you and 20 other men, both of you will usually be fine exchanging the odd phone call or love letter until you can be back together again. But, when there's a lot of competition for her or you, and the other partner isn't there to act as an outlet for whatever energies get stirred up, it's substantially harder. You're working against time.

How much longer do the two of you need to be apart (i.e., not living within close proximity of each other)? And, if it wasn't working, would you be more likely to just leave where you are and go where she is, or to tell her why don't we take some time to date other people now, and if we want to pick this up again later when we can really be together, let's do it?

Chase

 

[longerjt]

Awesome. So there is more to the story. Sorry but had limited time on previous posts.

We are both unhappily married. Big one I know. I expect we both will be out of our marriages within the next 6-12 months. That will free us both up but neither is ready to completely admit they are done with our marriages yet. We have talked about relocating to another part of the country together, briefly. That said there is no commitment beyond where we are today. She has said she will never remarry as this is her second marriage.

But all you shared appears to apply and I think the exception as well. The one I have difficulty knowing about is competition and if she has someone else. She fiercely says trust is so important to her. Not to get technical but as you know there are some ways to know if a woman is getting fucked and she doesn't seem to be, at least not frequently.

Should I try to back off now and let her starve a little? I don't want to chase and feel I have been. I am conflicted versus not letting go? When do you fight for a woman versus ease up? So hard not to try to reach out. Sensing some auto-rejection. Will this nip that? She says it is her work and truthfully she is swamped and overloaded at work. We have a couple day conference together in mid-May and that should be a great opportunity for the intensity you advised. In the past this always happens when we are at shows. In October and December we had incredible times together. I sense I have been giving her too much attention, gifts, etc., but dont want to loose her, i.e. providing too much good feelings. She even said last week when we were in bed and I gave her a gift from India, "your too good to me". I am trying to lead and provide the great dates as you said. For example building tension around the mid-May thing, like I have some special plans, etc.

How do I get the power back on my side?

 

[Chase]

JT-

Should I try to back off now and let her starve a little? I don't want to chase and feel I have been. I am conflicted versus not letting go? When do you fight for a woman versus ease up? So hard not to try to reach out. Sensing some auto-rejection. Will this nip that?

If she's near auto-rejection (when she's going cold because she feels like she can't get what she wants from you), you're better served by being very genuinely warm and considerate in a non-needy way than by backing off. Backing off just gives her more time to brew over her feelings and think you don't care about her. It's important to nip it in the bud before it becomes full-blown auto-rejection, though, because there's usually little you can do to recover once it's progressed to that point.

She says it is her work and truthfully she is swamped and overloaded at work. We have a couple day conference together in mid-May and that should be a great opportunity for the intensity you advised. In the past this always happens when we are at shows. In October and December we had incredible times together. I sense I have been giving her too much attention, gifts, etc., but dont want to loose her, i.e. providing too much good feelings. She even said last week when we were in bed and I gave her a gift from India, "your too good to me". I am trying to lead and provide the great dates as you said. For example building tension around the mid-May thing, like I have some special plans, etc.

How do I get the power back on my side?

Keep in mind there could be things happening that you're not aware of and she isn't telling you - e.g., she's reconciling with her husband, or getting pangs of remorse because of children or family or something else. If it feels like you're doing things mostly correct and she's still cooling off, it either means you're not giving her something she needs, or another piece is on the board playing saboteur.

What you probably want to do at this point is meet up with her, have some passionate sex, then take her out for a coffee or drink in a laid back cafe/lounge and tell her, "I've noticed a change in you recently. I like you, Trish, and I wish you'd communicate with me. Tell me what it is." At that point, she's got the oxytocin flowing through her brain from good sex, which makes her more truthful and wanting to bond more, but the environment is less intimate than bed so she'll be less in the moment and more able to be calm and rational with you instead of romantic and telling you nothing could ever get in the way of your love. Then just press calmly but firmly for an answer. If she keeps insisting everything's fine but you can tell it isn't, then just tell her, "Okay. I wish you'd talk to me, but if you won't tell me what it is, then let's just enjoy our time together and not worry about it for now." That'll plant the seed in her head that at some point, she's got to tell you - you already know something's the matter, and she'll feel better getting it off her chest. You can't really address it until you have an honest idea about what the source of the cool-off is - otherwise, you can spend a lot of time attacking completely the wrong problem.

Chase

 

[longerjt]

Chase -

Great advice. I will try but she is kinda flaming on me. Here is what she emailed me:

"Wow, you are in such a hurry. Ready to jump from one relationship to another in a heartbeat.... doesn't work that way for me.

I've been doing some thinking and even though we enjoy each other and spending time together, it doesn't mean it's for sure and forever. It's apparent now to me that you needed someone to fullfill a need as did I because of our marriages. Your situation and mine are different as I'm not willing to jump ship as easily (I've been there and done that years ago).

You can also tell me all you want that you trust me but your actions and reactions tell another story... you've got trust issues and I really don't deal with that well. I've been very upfront with you and I'm not looking for a relationship... even though you are.

So demanding ... that's all that comes to my mind now. It's all about you and your needs/desires and I'm just supposed to make your wishes/desires come true. I have a relationship like that at home and certainly don't want or need another... it's exhausting pleasing everyone all the time!

Anyway... we have bigger issues than me just not responding to your texts/messages and needs. I really had no idea that you were just going to jump from your wife to the next thing you found.

Take care and I hope things work out for you."


Looks over huh??

Advice now?

ThAnks!
JT

 

[trashKENNUT]

Chase -

Great advice. I will try but she is kinda flaming on me. Here is what she emailed me:

"
Wow, you are in such a hurry. Ready to jump from one relationship to another in a heartbeat.... doesn't work that way for me.

I've been doing some thinking and even though we enjoy each other and spending time together, it doesn't mean it's for sure and forever. It's apparent now to me that you needed someone to fullfill a need as did I because of our marriages. Your situation and mine are different as I'm not willing to jump ship as easily (I've been there and done that years ago).

You can also tell me all you want that you trust me but your actions and reactions tell another story... you've got trust issues and I really don't deal with that well. I've been very upfront with you and I'm not looking for a relationship... even though you are.

So demanding ... that's all that comes to my mind now. It's all about you and your needs/desires and I'm just supposed to make your wishes/desires come true. I have a relationship like that at home and certainly don't want or need another... it's exhausting pleasing everyone all the time!

Anyway... we have bigger issues than me just not responding to your texts/messages and needs. I really had no idea that you were just going to jump from your wife to the next thing you found.

Take care and I hope things work out for you."



Looks over huh??

Advice now?

Don't respond to her yet. It might be impossible to salvage this, She's putting the blame on you, and the last thing you want to do, is to fight logically. I would say she is emotionally exhausted, not just by pleasing you but her husband as well.

The last thing you want to do is run to her and beg her to come back. This is tricky, i hope Chase comes to the rescue. But then again, i hate to be in your shoes. Damn...

Zac

 

[longerjt]

Zac -

Too late. First on Friday I sent her an email apologizing for being controlling and demanding, and that I wouldn't send her any more communications. Also said I would like to continue seeing each other. After seeing Chase's response I backpedaled on the not communicating for awhile (not chasing her).

Too humble I imagine....?

I sent her a text last night in an attempt to follow Chase's advice to be genuinely warm and considerate in a non-needy way, versus cooling off. Here is what I sent:

Hope you had a great weekend. I saw the weather really was bad your way. Hope it was a good one anyway. Be safe and smile!

Smile is what we always say after we hookup, that we're "smiling". She responded this morning with saying "yeah the weather sucks and that she started a renovation project that created a big mess but it will be nice once it is done." She closed with "Hope all is well with you". Point is it was a mildly normal exchange and away from volatile level in her email. It appears to signal to me that she is interested in continuing on and that she accepted my apologies.

Just before I got the text I sent her a much more warm and deep email covering EVERYTHING (our past, apologizing for my insecurity lapse/controlling/chasing, etc) and asking what it is she wants, doesn't want, likes, dislikes. I asked her to please take her time in answering. So her text crossed with my email. Hopefully no damage from my email. She is hard to read and I think I just need to take it slow and look to see her ASAP. So I haven't responded to her text yet. Trying not be too quick. I will respond tonight as we are both into fitness and I have a new workout tonight that should be interesting to her. I am trying to keep the traffic light now. I am working to set up a date late next week. Keep you posted.

Any advice is much appreciated!!

 

[longerjt]

Thought I would post an update as I really appreciate the insight from Chase and Zac. So it appears I am out if the woods as we have exchanged some emails and texts that are on the lighter side. Like today she sent an email congratulating me on an interview covering me in our industry. I sent a text back saying thanks and I was just thinking of her when I heard the song "____ boom boom" by black stone cherry. She sent back lol. So things may be lightening a bit. Still early. She also said I look good in the color shirt I was wearing for the pic and I texted back she looks good in tan, wink, wink. Seems to be easing the tension. Goal would be to fully ease before I see her again. I am really laying back and not engaging. Don't want to chase her and definitely want her to miss the attention. Let this fester a couple weeks. Then ask her out. Good plan? Ideas?

 

[trashKENNUT]

Thought I would post an update as I really appreciate the insight from Chase and Zac. So it appears I am out if the woods as we have exchanged some emails and texts that are on the lighter side. Like today she sent an email congratulating me on an interview covering me in our industry. I sent a text back saying thanks and I was just thinking of her when I heard the song "____ boom boom" by black stone cherry. She sent back lol. So things may be lightening a bit. Still early. She also said I look good in the color shirt I was wearing for the pic and I texted back she looks good in tan, wink, wink. Seems to be easing the tension. Goal would be to fully ease before I see her again. I am really laying back and not engaging. Don't want to chase her and definitely want her to miss the attention. Let this fester a couple weeks. Then ask her out. Good plan? Ideas?

Ease the tension, and don't be enthusiastic, and probably don't chase her for anything yet. Only when she's eagerly more excited than you, then you make things happen again, but this time, it is with more affection.

Zac

 

[longerjt]

OK so I shouldn't chase her. We traded texts over the weekend about what we were up to. She isn't showing any affection what so ever in her texts.

So in not chasing, does that mean drop all contact? There is a conference coming up that she might attend. She last time I saw here, before things flaked out, even if she doesn't attend that she would take a day and come see me. Should I inquire about it? Call her? Don't wan to blow it now. I am inclined to send her a text referencing if she is ready for another time like we last had in December that we both talked about a lot afterwards. Thoughts?

 

[trashKENNUT]

OK so I shouldn't chase her. We traded texts over the weekend about what we were up to. She isn't showing any affection what so ever in her texts.

So in not chasing, does that mean drop all contact? There is a conference coming up that she might attend. She last time I saw here, before things flaked out, even if she doesn't attend that she would take a day and come see me. Should I inquire about it? Call her? Don't wan to blow it now. I am inclined to send her a text referencing if she is ready for another time like we last had in December that we both talked about a lot afterwards. Thoughts?

It be too obvious if you drop all contact now. Don't bring up the last time we had, because when you bring that up, it also brought up the recent memory that shit took off. If the conference benefits you somewhat, attend it though. You would hope she would be attending, but she could just as well don't turn up, too.

She told you she would take a day and come see you? Well you can ask tell her to meet at the conference, and you will meet her later, have some coffee, fuck her brains out, but then that will be like too cliche, and i don't have much experience to back that up, if there's any setbacks really.

Have you read the article Chase wrote? It's for you.

Zac

 

[longerjt]

Zac -

Yes she had mentioned when we were together a few weeks ago that if her company wasn't participating then maybe she could come for a day and we could hang out, etc. I am trying not to chase her on this. I want it to be kinda loose but yet draw her in. BTW I heard the old 38 special tune the other day called "hang on loosely" and it reminded me of not chasing.

Here is a text we exchanged this morning.....

"Good morning Sunshine!!! Spring is here!! Beautiful day here in the Midwest!!! Hope you get some time outside today as it looks like it'll be really nice."

"Morning JT as I'm hoping for a nice weather day. We need one as we got snow again last night. I've got a busy day at work so doubt I'll get to enjoy it though. Maybe this weekend if I'm not doing a project. Have a good day!"

Thoughts??

Regarding reading Chase's article, I have read a couple on chasing, which article are you referring to?

Thanks!!

 

[Franco]

Hey JT,

This is the article that Zac was referring too; it was posted this past Saturday, April 20th. Chase references one of your posts:

How to Get Your Girlfriend Back

Cheers,

Franco

 

[trashKENNUT]

JT,

I saw your comment on the "How to Get Your Girlfriend Back".

You really got to make things on your end sporadic too. Don't respond to her text message all too often. and message her at your own time and do things gradually to up the relationship again.

Why?

1) Messaging too often indicates "you pushing her"
2) Putting much interest in your text indicates you putting more work than her, thus reinforcing number 1 point.
3) You don't want to message her all too often, and be a back burner because she has a husband, and thus your previous hardwork is all gone due to neediness.
4) Your tendency to have a vibe of leaving your wife indicates to her that you might leave her for someone else, if you guys ever did get together.

In that article, Chase mention that it takes one hell of a reversal, and yea, i see it too. But yea, you really gotta leave the relationship as much as she wants to leave.

Not an easy thing to do,

Zac

 

[longerjt]

Thanks Zac -

I am trying to follow this advice. Making the timing of my responses highly variable and sporadic. I am a bit torn as we had discussed meeting up in two weeks and I want to get that set-up if possible. That will be my opportunity to reconcile and understand a lot of the questions about what she wants/doesn't, etc. I do know she is likely trying to patch things at home and has major issues with her husbands laziness. They are working on a project and depending on how thats going she may be more or less interested due to apparently better home life. In the past this has always been terrible with bad history. So if past behavior is an indicator then things wont be the best.

Based on all of this, here is my proposed plan:
- Skip 2-3 days (say Tuesday after work) before i respond to her text from yesterday (Sunday PM). She is not used to me taking anymore than half a day to respond. Do you think I should make it longer? shorter?
- Continue pattern through this weekend
- Send her an email over weekend when she is less stressed and more apt to answer, about the conference and getting together two weeks from today (she tends to respond to emails more thoroughly/thoughtfully).
- play it very cool with exception of email, and make email all about hot hookup and logistics
- if she commits then only text for meeting, no increase in frequency. Keep it lean and sporadic.
- If she doesn't then what? I guess be cool and maintain the long game...

Thoughts?

Thanks again man!
JT

 

[trashKENNUT]

JT,

Before you get into the "doing" part. I just want you to know a few things.

1) Your next meet can be months later.
2) The second try must not come off as systematic to her. (Like evading her message for too long, when there's a question or something important)
3) Understand that you can lose her. Thus find yourself some time alone, eliminate stress (easier said than done, really)

Now to the action part,

- Skip 2-3 days (say Tuesday after work) before i respond to her text from yesterday (Sunday PM). She is not used to me taking anymore than half a day to respond. Do you think I should make it longer? shorter?

Just not too long though. Slightly longer.

- Send her an email over weekend when she is less stressed and more apt to answer, about the conference and getting together two weeks from today (she tends to respond to emails more thoroughly/thoughtfully).

If you make it too much about the conference, then she really thinks you meeting her only for conference. You can say you would like to meet her after the conference too. Then never really say anything after that. Here, you would hope she would give something. Otherwise, nevermind about it.

- If she doesn't then what? I guess be cool and maintain the long game...

Keep flowing until something pops up, but always know that you can only do so much to keep this together, She needs to help you as well.

Zac

 

[longerjt]

Thanks Zac, Your the man. Thank you for your help.

The challenge I have here is I think she may be keeping me in a holding pattern until she decides whats up at home. She has a set time table here from what she has shared - still far off. I think it's appropriate given each of our situations. The more I think about it, the more I think if I work the investment level and am able to flip things, have her chase me, then all will be much better and may work out. Like you said, back burner it as I have time on my side.

So, guess what? No texts to her today from me and for the first time in a long, long time she texted me first. Tonight she texted "Hey I hope all is OK and you had a nice weekend". Not much but the first time she has shown any concern or initiative in a month. I am learning she is a cool cat and has better game than me. Chase is right that women know this shit better than guys.

I feel the need to answer. Should I respond? Give her time to stew? I am thinking overnight because beyond will seem weird? Should I not reward the good behavior as Chase has recommended on women who respond positive to not chasing them?

Cheers
JT

 

[trashKENNUT]

I feel the need to answer. Should I respond? Give her time to stew? I am thinking overnight because beyond will seem weird? Should I not reward the good behavior as Chase has recommended on women who respond positive to not chasing them?

You should not reward good behavior directly. That will only implement more drama if she does something and you don't reward later.

Yeap, overnight. when she's less expecting.

Zac

 

[longerjt]

Seems things are going OK. I need to keep the sporadic response thing up. I texted back to her message from last night and was direct and uncaring, like matter of fact.

Sunday night she texted "Hey I hope all is OK and you had a nice weekend"
Late this morning I said "AOK and was decent. Hope yours was too."
She came back this afternoon with "It was good as all work but looking to get project done", then "How are you?"
I said "That's great.Glad your almost there. I'm sure it will be really nice", then "Doing well" (I wasnt gonna add that but thought it was too obvious if I didnt)

So that's it for now. See how more radio silence goes....