Nice guys get shat on (from a woman's perspective)

[topcat]

Here's an interesting article I found on my FB newsfeed. If you're on the fence as to being a strong man or not, let this persuade you. It's a woman divulging on her relationship with what we might call an AFC or timid man.

http://www.theawl.com/2013/12/ask-polly ... -boyfriend

Enjoy,

Topcat

 

[Motiv]

This is precisely the kind of story that led me to fifteen years of celibacy: a no-man's land between refusing to be "bad" while protecting myself from ending up like him. Now that I'm getting myself out there, the hardest hurdle is overcoming the sweet, nice guy vibe. Girls expect me to pursue them, and if I don't, nothing happens. For example, I had a neighbor who lives just down the hall who had initially pursued me text this morning about how nice neighbors help shovel their cars out of snow banks. My guess is to ignore this text completely. I thought about spinning it back to her in the form of something like: "I know much better things neighbors can be good for..." but would that be tacky?

Jeremy

 

[topcat]

Hey Jeremy,

that's not a bad reply in the slightest, it definitely get's you out of nice guy territory. It also works as a non-platonic deflection, given that she wasn't exactly being "nice" by trying to guilt you into helping her shovel snow.

I, like yourself am pushing myself out of nice guy mode and what I find helps is not to sit and worry over whether a reply might be too bold. I simply run the interaction as an experiment and see what happens. A way I tend to gauge it is like this - if the old nice guy version of me objects, I'm probably headed in the right direction.

Keep on keeping on,

Topcat

 

[Motiv]

Thank you Topcat! I just sent her my reply with about a 12 hour delay– here's to boldness…!

 

[Motiv]

*Update* So she just text me back: "Ha like what?"

Now I have to think: the boldest might be, "you'll have to come to my place to find out…" and give a time…

Is there any other less obtuse response?

Btw, hope this isn't thread hijacking…

 

[topcat]

Lol might be considered thread-hijacking in some camps, but I've got no issue with it. Bare in mind, I am no expert, a mid-to-low intermediate at best, so you might be better off hitting up the general or beginner boards for more expert advice.

But what I'd do is wait maybe an hour or two to reply, answer with a flirty non answer like "wouldn't you like to know " or "Don't worry about it. I'd rather not taint your innocent little mind" (gauge it towards your particular relationship to this girl of course), and then i'd steer the conversation towards setting a meet up (she replies "blah blah blah" you reply "how was your shovelling blah blah" then schedule a meetup as per the standard procedure illustrated on Girlschase "what's your schedule like this week..").

Avoid getting caught up in a back and forth platonic text convo. It's easy for a nice guy to get caught up in, but its all sorts of bad. Just peruse the boards a lil, there's all kinds of good tidbits lurking around in this regard.

All the best,

Topcat

 

[Oskar]

A less "obtuse" response might be: "Hmm, perhaps I'll have to show you sometime... how's the rest of your week looking?" and then set something up like dinner at your place. Your response is certainly bolder though, and if she can and wants to meet you at the time you say you're basically in.

A good response also might be to let it hang and forget about it (or, if you can't, pretend to), and wait (not too long) for an opportune situation (or create one) where you can follow through immediately. You are neighbors after all.

-Oskar

 

[Motiv]

Thanks to both of you for your responses! TBH, since I am a beginner and it has been so long, I was actually afraid I might be putting myself on the spot to perform tonight… I know how that probably sounds, but I'm willing to divulge my true inexperience, so that you all know where I'm coming from. I hope I will be able to give back to these boards soon!

Rapid acceleration!

So ultimately, I had written this to her (before reading your replies): "I don't know if I can say that sort of thing in a text… " …and soon after she wrote back, "Ah neighbor I think I would rather start with low key activities such as getting me out of snow bank or making those scrambled eggs "

We have previously discussed my ability to make an omelette, so I wonder if there is a way to capitalize on cooking? On the other hand, I think she is clearly testing me for beta zone vs alpha, so maybe I should steer the conversation back to sex?

P.S. I don't know where I would be without you guys! … thank you in advance for everything.

 

[Oskar]

So ultimately, I had written this to her (before reading your replies): "I don't know if I can say that sort of thing in a text… " …and soon after she wrote back, "Ah neighbor I think I would rather start with low key activities such as getting me out of snow bank or making those scrambled eggs "

We have previously discussed my ability to make an omelette, so I wonder if there is a way to capitalize on cooking? On the other hand, I think she is clearly testing me for beta zone vs alpha, so maybe I should steer the conversation back to sex?

I think you read that aptly: neighbor in this case means "friend" and the rest can basically be read as "I want you to invest in and chase me and then maybe I'll grace you with, not sex, but my presence." You definitely don't want to agree to either making her eggs or getting her out of snow banks, as that's implicitly going along with her frame, instead you could say something like: "Baby you've never seen someone scramble an egg like me before... That's definitely a high key activity if ever there was one. But yeah I agree, we should definitely get together and chill sometime." Then I'd text her a few days later with something like "Hey <girl>, just got <<X Low Key Activity Idea>>, thinking we should do <X Low Key Activity Idea>, pronto. How's the rest of your week looking?"

Of course this is just an example and something based more in your mutual experience together may be superior. Though don't cook her eggs -- at least until after you've had sex Your texting strategy here should basically be to brush it off, move the conversation to you two meeting, and then ending the discussion. Good luck, ViolinPlayer!

-Oskar

P.S. I'd try and steer clear of talking about sex or anything else that doesn't move the seduction immediately forward at this point. Your next step should probably be to meet her somewhere private. Everything else you talk about is just fluff.

P.P.S. If you have sex with her it would be quite amusing if afterwards you ask: "So... how'd you like them scrambled eggs "

 

[PrettyDecent]

Oskar has this one. But...

"Ah neighbor I think I would rather start with low key activities such as getting me out of snow bank or making those scrambled eggs "

I might throw in: "So...you want a man servant " (Matter-of-fact with undertones)
or
"Whoooa missy! I thought we'd start with washing your feet and doing your dishes first. Jesus Christ..." (Challenging her playfully + Self-deprecation)

 

[PrettyDecent]

**Editing my post above**

"I don't know if I can say that sort of thing in a text… "

I didn't see this before I wrote my text examples above; which you shouldn't use them now. But reading these posts, I'm coming more to the conclusion that you were friend-zoned in the beginning and texting won't change it.

Just work on your base sexiness/fundamentals, and friend-zone this girl back - if she's hot, she'll be connected..

~Nick

 

[Motiv]

**Editing my post above**
...I'm coming more to the conclusion that you were friend-zoned in the beginning and texting won't change it.

Just work on your base sexiness/fundamentals, and friend-zone this girl back - if she's hot, she'll be connected..

~Nick

Thank you Nick-

Does this mean I should quit texting for now? I still haven't responded to her latest about "making scrambled eggs or shoveling snow", and it sounds like there's really no way to turn this one around anymore. Still working hard at shaking the nice guy vibe without turning weird or creepy, but each new woman I interact with makes things get a little clearer... attrition my way upward.

Jeremy

 

[Motiv]

*UPDATE*

After not responding to her latest message about, "Ah neighbor I think I would rather start with low key activities such as getting me out of snow bank or making those scrambled eggs " on Wednesday, she ran into me while I was chatting up another cute girl on our same floor (thank you pre-selection!), but then I got this from her at ~2am... "I was counting on a coffe date tonight :-("

Is that audacious of her to still try to beta zone me after two days of ignoring her and seeing me with another girl? Either I must coming off so weak, or could she really be feeling hurt (possibly very inexperienced herself)? Seems like I did such a "good" job of setting the wrong precedent (of being a boyfriend candidate) that now she sees me as a good guy gone bad... Does anyone know a way to turn this around?

P.S.
On the bright side, I invited that girl I was chatting up to come to our holiday gala concert tonight and we will meet up after. Hope too deliver good news soon...!