Not connecting with girls. How can I craft an interesting story about myself if my life has been boring so far?

[770]

So guys seem to have some interesting stories to tell that build connection, I think my main sticking point is that the girl just doesn’t have enough info about me by the end of the date, doesn’t really know what I value or my passions are.

The truth is I was in a long relationship with a hot girl so I barely worked on myself and mostly focused on my career (software engineering), beyond that I was gaming and mostly a homebody.

I’m only 24 so I guess it’s not too unusual. I guess the only thing I’m truly passionate about at the moment is dating or seduction

I think this is why I just failed my date. I was able to escalate and get compliance with a girl that was initially into me but I think it fell apart because she didn’t feel that secure or comfortable about me because 1) bad logistics 2) she didn’t feel much of a connection because I’m not that good at talking about myself on a deep level

I think that’s also why my only success so far is with this cougar which I’m fwb. She doesn’t really give a shit if I have a purpose or mission because she knows I’m young and figuring shit out. But other girls want some story or something that they can feel a part of.

the only thing I can think of is like just be vulnerable and honest, yeah I was in a long relationship so I’m just trying to figure things out at the moment and what I’m interested in, currently I’m trying x y and z and btw from that relationship experience I found out I really value x y and z.

Kind of how when you say you’re new in town it gives you an excuse to not have a set mission or clear passion yet.

What do you guys think?

 

[empath]

Whatever they say I have dabbled a bit into this, then deep dive on it.

you don’t need to know but ask intelligent questions.

also, say I like to live in the moment or some shit most girls below 25 don’t care about your purpose.

Discuss about your future goals.

Tell stories about your friends etc

I will add something more if it comes in my head.

Meanwhile try to build crazy experiences for next 3 months.

go on trips get into fight… shop lift etc

So you have real stories though not needed at all

 

[mirror]

So guys seem to have some interesting stories to tell that build connection, I think my main sticking point is that the girl just doesn’t have enough info about me by the end of the date, doesn’t really know what I value or my passions are.

What do you guys think?

Are you even remotely interested in her, beyond the looks and like, the basic egostroking interest?
I think once you go into confident, but interest mode, it's much easier to attract and be attracted.
I believe in physical chemistry (not only ego but biology based) and as you tell me this story, I read none of it at you.

The girl doesn't care about not knowing your values or passion, she will have already decided whether she likes you or not.
I do sense a need to prove yourself to her. She possibly picked up on that.

 

[770]

Are you even remotely interested in her, beyond the looks and like, the basic egostroking interest?
I think once you go into confident, but interest mode, it's much easier to attract and be attracted.
I believe in physical chemistry (not only ego but biology based) and as you tell me this story, I read none of it at you.

The girl doesn't care about not knowing your values or passion, she will have already decided whether she likes you or not.
I do sense a need to prove yourself to her. She possibly picked up on that.

Tbh no, I am not needy at all. My fwb said she likes how carefree I am. I am pretty playful on the dates. Ok I see that a lot of girls probably don’t care much around my age, and surely a ton of guys my age are getting laid that don’t really have an answer as to who they are. it’s just a theory that one of my mates with more told me, I honestly am not sure if it’s an issue with not having the right story but I simply don’t have the ingredients right now that make a girl tick. I will write a FR but I keep having issues escalating, they have some level of resistance so I cool off and keep trying to talk basics and try to build off of interesting things she shares and retry escalation but I keep failing.

In this particular date I just had, I was able to start hand holding for more than half the date but she wasn’t comfortable with it even tho I was pretty chill and dominant about it, she had a dash of attraction spike when I first started holding hands and gradually it wore off

If anyone can do a deep dive on me I would appreciate it. I’m just not getting the results I want. I will write a FR on the latest. I just feel like the girls aren’t fundamentally attracted to me (getting my dates from OLD), like they are just lukewarm and don’t feel any different about me by the end of the date so I am thinking it has to do with my barebones conversation skills

I just get stuck with resistance, try to cool off and persist but I don’t know how to switch up or understand what their objection is. I get a feeling this girl was not comfortable with me but maybe she was just not attracted to me enough. I don’t fucking know and it’s infuriating

 

[770]

Maybe I am just running my 1st date wrong. It was just a boba date in a downtown spot, just talking and chilling there and walking around the area and I was trying to keep pushing the escalation. Maybe I should have just kept it super short build some feeling and some information and leave? I did not have any good logistics to pull, the plan in my head was to try escalate to a kiss on this date and enjoy, then end date. Instead I struggled to figure out what to do after holding hands and address her discomfort with it, and now my mood is shit

 

[770]

I am super pissed and angry. I persisted hard to get this girl on a date, she was only like a 6/10, I persisted throughout the date, I was completely non needy and good vibes til the very end of the date. Then the date is over and I have to accept I failed and I feel my time and effort into this girl has gone to waste. The feeling of losing is extremely depressing, especially when my ex was way, way more attractive than this girl

 

[KJ Francis]

guys seem to have some interesting stories to tell that build connection

So the interesting thing about connection is a girl will feel that based on how much she feels you know her, not the other way around.

There is also similarity, but this is different than finding commonalities. And even further, it is similarity of attitudes. So you are finding commonalities in the abstract values that you share with her.

I recommend searching GC for articles on deep diving. You want her doing most of the talking and to turn it back on her after relating to the things she says from an attitude similarity perspective.

If you and a girl both like gardening (commonality), it may be the underlying aspects that make her feel the connection. So if you do not garden, you'd deep dive on the topic to find out how she got into it, why she does it, how she feels when she is doing it, etc. And then relate back on those things, even with a non-gardening example. In fact it would be more powerful for her to find out later that you garden if you do without you eagerly relating on the commonality.

So again the connection building is all focused on HER, not the impressive stuff about you.

It's one of those magic things like preselection. Dale Carnegie's book How to Win Friends and Influence People is also based on this. It's all about them feeling you understand them, which builds trust.

Conveying attractive qualities like risk taking and leadership are good too, but you can think of them like attraction switches that can be flipped on like a light switch and then you're done... No need to brag and regale her to no end. This is a bit of a different topic.

It is entirely possible to lay a girl without her knowing your name or anything about you. I have current fuck buddies who feel like we have an incredible connection and they open up to me in vulnerable ways, but they really do not know the first thing about me. It's almost hilarious.

 

[James D]

It's clear your missing something in the philosophy behind connecting with people in general.

Read Dale Carnegie's classic How to Win Friends and Influence People.

It lays down the rawest philosophy on connecting with people.

Why do you even need an interesting life story?

I mean it helps but why?

People connect with people who are interested in them, who get them to talk about themselves and actively listen.

Do you get girls doing most of the talking on dates?

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

There's a whole lot going here.
The main thing that I see is that you have a vision of what it takes to get a girl to like you enough to want to enthusiastically sleep with you.

Basically YOUR idea of what she wants is just YOUR idea - not some immutable fact of how people connect, and most definitely not what HER idea of what she wants.

Your substituting in what YOU THINKS SHE WANTS for what she actually responds to.

So guys seem to have some interesting stories to tell that build connection, I think my main sticking point is that the girl just doesn’t have enough info about me by the end of the date, doesn’t really know what I value or my passions are.

Girls between 18-24 really don't give a "hoot" about what passions and values of the guys that they sleep with.

At that age, despite what society tells, despite what even comes out of the girls's mouth - they want EMOTIONS.

Chicks that age are still lusting after Dj's, Bartenders, "Bad Boys", Hunky Athletes, her Weed Dealer, "The Cool Guy at the bar/club/gym" etc. These guys aren't attracting women based on something as nebulous as value or passion.

Mr Gym Rat values clen/tren/anavar, not stoicism. Neither of which attracts the chicks.
Mr. Always High on Molly, values being high on molly and maybe his art - she gets with him because he's fun and unpredictable

Her "calculus" if you can call it that

• Who looks the hottest?
• Who stimulates her the most?
• Who's gonna give her the coolest experience to talk about with her girls?

She doesn't want to confirm that you're Not-A-Trumper, how you feel about traditional gender roles, whether you think Climate Change is a hoax, how important family is, your career prospects, your cool app idea etc.

Honestly this doesn't really change even when the girl is older and has seen more of the world. The staunchest blue haired feminist will get on her knees for a guy that she really likes.

In my opinion, you should set up the date to tittilate all of her senses and hook up with her - and at the end, THEN she should wonder what your values are.

Before then, she should be just into the conversation, what are you gonna say next, what are you gonna do next,

Because until P hits the V - YOU want to be in the "Lover" Category, not the "Potential BF" Category.

The connection she wants, isn't something deep and mystical.

It's how much fun is she having?
How much drama are you causing?
How much do you get her to FEEL?

The truth is I was in a long relationship with a hot girl so I barely worked on myself and mostly focused on my career (software engineering), beyond that I was gaming and mostly a homebody.

I’m only 24 so I guess it’s not too unusual. I guess the only thing I’m truly passionate about at the moment is dating or seduction

I think this is why I just failed my date. I was able to escalate and get compliance with a girl that was initially into me but I think it fell apart because she didn’t feel that secure or comfortable about me because 1) bad logistics 2) she didn’t feel much of a connection because I’m not that good at talking about myself on a deep level

See how your answer changes when you talk about the date - Now you had "bad" logistics. (and if the girl wants to really bang you, she'll find a place to get some privacy with you)

I already addressed how little she cares about knowing you at a deep level.
IF ANYTHING, who you are as a person on a deep level should be something that she DISCOVERS, not something you tell her.

• Do you give the homeless guy a dollar on the way out of the restaurant?
• Do you ask his NAME?
• How do you treat the waitstaff?
• Do you yuck it up with the hostess as you walk to the table?
• Did you get up from sitting down to go wash your hands before you eat? (leaving her alone, and possibly thinking to herself that she's disgusting for not doing it first)
• Is your car clean?
• Are your clothes pressed?
• Do you have an iPhone or an Android?
• Are you wearing a watch?
• Do you look like you work out?

All of those things plus a billion more, tell the girl what your values are.

A lot of those things, she isn't actively thinking about. Sometimes a girl is more nervous about what you think of her, than what she thinks of you.

And some of your things, she might not care about, some she might deeply care about.

And even when she disagrees with the things she sees - that doesn't end the game.

You do not need to be YOUR version of perfection, much less HER version (which is an infinite list and changes on a whim) in order to hook up, in order to connect.

I think that’s also why my only success so far is with this cougar which I’m fwb. She doesn’t really give a shit if I have a purpose or mission because she knows I’m young and figuring shit out. But other girls want some story or something that they can feel a part of.

No, they don't.

If you're 24 and a programmer - your life is figured out for most people. Even with vibe coding, AI looming, the end of entry level jobs - you're just a guy that's good with computers and you'll keep working in that highly paid field.

Chicks especially sleep with guys that they find hot that have NOTHING going for them. That guy is the perfect F-Buddy, because it can only ever be sex. That's what's really going on with your cougar. She'll take some D, but she won't get attached (yet)

Because in her mind, she can just sleep with you, not think about a life with you. The bar for sex is much LOWER than the bar for potential husband. (which means the bar for father of her child is much lower than the bar for the guy she wants to take to brunch with her GFs)

the only thing I can think of is like just be vulnerable and honest, yeah I was in a long relationship so I’m just trying to figure things out at the moment and what I’m interested in, currently I’m trying x y and z and btw from that relationship experience I found out I really value x y and z.

Nobody cares. Don't talk about your Ex or girls you've dated.

If you're at dinner, she's gonna give you her bio, and you're gonna tell her your life story - and you'll both be more bored as a result.

Stop having lame conversations.

I was just having a chat last night with a broad I'm reconnecting with

She said, where would you rather live

1. A penthouse with massive glass windows
2. Out in the country on a farm
3. A McMansion in the suburbs

It doesn't matter that I agree with her answer, what does matter is how I think about the problem, and from what I say, she learns what I VALUE.

The start of my answer was - "Penthouse, and deal with people that live in a Penthouse? No bueno..." (and she laughs)

A lot of my BEST game comes from interacting with girls.

So when you're dealing with the next chick - you don't tell the chick about your hopes and dreams.

You ask the chick about the waitress's shoes.

• What was going on in her mind when she picked those?
• Do you think it makes her more money if she wore something sexier flashier...

And then you follow up with, "So that's what you were thinking when you got dressed for this date"

1. Then you smirk
2. Watch her react
3. And then let her thread the needle with her response. (because what was sort of factual, became personal, provocative, and flirtatious)

You want to PLAY with the girl in the conversation, not give your elevator pitch for some ChatGPT on your phone Seduction Chat Bot. (See, I trained the model on a combination of the Usenet and the subreddit roast_me)....

The goal is not an exchange of values, but a later exchange of fluids.

Kind of how when you say you’re new in town it gives you an excuse to not have a set mission or clear passion yet.

What do you guys think?

I think you've got some self esteem issues, which are fine.

But you're letting your brain and self esteem cloud what the mission is, and how girls behave.

I don't know what you've been reading - but what you're talking about above IS NOT PICK UP.

We're trying to pick these girls up to bang them, not impress them with our husbandly qualities.

West Indian Archie

 

[KJ Francis]

In my opinion, you should set up the date to tittilate all of her senses and hook up with her - and at the end, THEN she should wonder what your values are.

If she views you as low attainability and is too nervous for arousal spiking, how do you build comfort on a date?

Do you not deep dive or anything? Curious what @Skills would do too. I know you don't deep dive besides the history of cheating.

If the girl is not receptive to the micro escalation and flirting and you need to pull back a bit to not be chasing, what's the move?

 

[770]

There's a whole lot going here.
The main thing that I see is that you have a vision of what it takes to get a girl to like you enough to want to enthusiastically sleep with you.

Basically YOUR idea of what she wants is just YOUR idea - not some immutable fact of how people connect, and most definitely not what HER idea of what she wants.

Your substituting in what YOU THINKS SHE WANTS for what she actually responds to.



Girls between 18-24 really don't give a "hoot" about what passions and values of the guys that they sleep with.

At that age, despite what society tells, despite what even comes out of the girls's mouth - they want EMOTIONS.

Chicks that age are still lusting after Dj's, Bartenders, "Bad Boys", Hunky Athletes, her Weed Dealer, "The Cool Guy at the bar/club/gym" etc. These guys aren't attracting women based on something as nebulous as value or passion.

Mr Gym Rat values clen/tren/anavar, not stoicism. Neither of which attracts the chicks.
Mr. Always High on Molly, values being high on molly and maybe his art - she gets with him because he's fun and unpredictable

Her "calculus" if you can call it that

• Who looks the hottest?
• Who stimulates her the most?
• Who's gonna give her the coolest experience to talk about with her girls?

She doesn't want to confirm that you're Not-A-Trumper, how you feel about traditional gender roles, whether you think Climate Change is a hoax, how important family is, your career prospects, your cool app idea etc.

Honestly this doesn't really change even when the girl is older and has seen more of the world. The staunchest blue haired feminist will get on her knees for a guy that she really likes.

In my opinion, you should set up the date to tittilate all of her senses and hook up with her - and at the end, THEN she should wonder what your values are.

Before then, she should be just into the conversation, what are you gonna say next, what are you gonna do next,

Because until P hits the V - YOU want to be in the "Lover" Category, not the "Potential BF" Category.

The connection she wants, isn't something deep and mystical.

It's how much fun is she having?
How much drama are you causing?
How much do you get her to FEEL?



See how your answer changes when you talk about the date - Now you had "bad" logistics. (and if the girl wants to really bang you, she'll find a place to get some privacy with you)

I already addressed how little she cares about knowing you at a deep level.
IF ANYTHING, who you are as a person on a deep level should be something that she DISCOVERS, not something you tell her.

• Do you give the homeless guy a dollar on the way out of the restaurant?
• Do you ask his NAME?
• How do you treat the waitstaff?
• Do you yuck it up with the hostess as you walk to the table?
• Did you get up from sitting down to go wash your hands before you eat? (leaving her alone, and possibly thinking to herself that she's disgusting for not doing it first)
• Is your car clean?
• Are your clothes pressed?
• Do you have an iPhone or an Android?
• Are you wearing a watch?
• Do you look like you work out?

All of those things plus a billion more, tell the girl what your values are.

A lot of those things, she isn't actively thinking about. Sometimes a girl is more nervous about what you think of her, than what she thinks of you.

And some of your things, she might not care about, some she might deeply care about.

And even when she disagrees with the things she sees - that doesn't end the game.

You do not need to be YOUR version of perfection, much less HER version (which is an infinite list and changes on a whim) in order to hook up, in order to connect.



No, they don't.

If you're 24 and a programmer - your life is figured out for most people. Even with vibe coding, AI looming, the end of entry level jobs - you're just a guy that's good with computers and you'll keep working in that highly paid field.

Chicks especially sleep with guys that they find hot that have NOTHING going for them. That guy is the perfect F-Buddy, because it can only ever be sex. That's what's really going on with your cougar. She'll take some D, but she won't get attached (yet)

Because in her mind, she can just sleep with you, not think about a life with you. The bar for sex is much LOWER than the bar for potential husband. (which means the bar for father of her child is much lower than the bar for the guy she wants to take to brunch with her GFs)



Nobody cares. Don't talk about your Ex or girls you've dated.

If you're at dinner, she's gonna give you her bio, and you're gonna tell her your life story - and you'll both be more bored as a result.

Stop having lame conversations.

I was just having a chat last night with a broad I'm reconnecting with

She said, where would you rather live

1. A penthouse with massive glass windows
2. Out in the country on a farm
3. A McMansion in the suburbs

It doesn't matter that I agree with her answer, what does matter is how I think about the problem, and from what I say, she learns what I VALUE.

The start of my answer was - "Penthouse, and deal with people that live in a Penthouse? No bueno..." (and she laughs)

A lot of my BEST game comes from interacting with girls.

So when you're dealing with the next chick - you don't tell the chick about your hopes and dreams.

You ask the chick about the waitress's shoes.

• What was going on in her mind when she picked those?
• Do you think it makes her more money if she wore something sexier flashier...

And then you follow up with, "So that's what you were thinking when you got dressed for this date"

1. Then you smirk
2. Watch her react
3. And then let her thread the needle with her response. (because what was sort of factual, became personal, provocative, and flirtatious)

You want to PLAY with the girl in the conversation, not give your elevator pitch for some ChatGPT on your phone Seduction Chat Bot. (See, I trained the model on a combination of the Usenet and the subreddit roast_me)....

The goal is not an exchange of values, but a later exchange of fluids.




I think you've got some self esteem issues, which are fine.

But you're letting your brain and self esteem cloud what the mission is, and how girls behave.

I don't know what you've been reading - but what you're talking about above IS NOT PICK UP.

We're trying to pick these girls up to bang them, not impress them with our husbandly qualities.

West Indian Archie

I understand what you are saying that girls just want to have fun and feel emotions. That is what I have been following. But it is not working for me, even if I am just having fun with them and playing with them in the moment. I am not really doing any different compared to the date with the cougar.

I am literally doing the same shit, just talking basic shit being chilled and persisting. teasing about stuff and self-amused. Yet I am failing, now it has been 3-4 times with different girls. (The only difference I can think is that there is less competition for the cougar so she was less picky. She did have better talking skills and openness. Even after we fked she said she thought i was cute and thought it was cool i was into art. Like yeah, I understand the reason for hookup can be quite simple.)

But realistically it is not different than other normie guys except maybe they move slower. So I am questioning what is wrong and just wrote down in the post "the idea" that you are referring to which is apparently incorrect, just what someone with more dating experience told me it can be a comfort issue or relatability issue, like I am not sounding that cool or compelling to her, that I need some kind of story that makes me more interesting to her, like yeah, I don't have any DHV stories or any of that shit, can't really say what i am really passionate about besides improving my dating life and getting laid. he is kind of just a normie but at least he is a natural with way better social skills than me, I don’t have anyone actively mentoring me so I am just taking feedback wherever I can and it sounds reasonable that maybe in this case the girl didn’t feel ready to go up the next step cuz I learned later in the date she is a virgin. She was really shy and stopped making eye contact after hand holding and uncomfortable so I tried to reset the interaction and retry but didn’t work.

have not talked about my ex or past relationship on the date

Tbh I don’t know how to stand out beyond improving looks or making some more interesting stories about myself and working on being a better listener and talker.

I am just not finding the edge I need on the date. Maybe hotter guys can get away with it. I think I need an edge on the date, i am a cookie cutter looking asian guy and short, I am just not getting any iois from the girls ive been on dates with, I have an issue getting interested girls at all in the pipeline for dates, it has been a real struggle. tons of unmatching, ghosting, flaking, etc. If I say something weird or tryhard or too flirty then i get unmatched or ghosted. i am always hard leading the conversations or handling their objections or disinterest and trying to revive a dead convo. I need to get better photos but for now have been trying to go for the artistic vibe, every girl ive been on a date with is pretty much interested in the date because they thought I was artistic from my profile, so maybe what i am on the date is incongruent (yet the cougar didnt seem to have an issue), and also my profile is not sexual at all, actually pretty boring.

so I am getting girls that are not really dtf or looking to hookup compared to perhaps other girls. yeah maybe it is causing me to get inexperienced girls or girls that are actively screening out players so its fucking me for getting what i want on the dates. either way i am just not standing out on the date.

I am just frustrated because so far my dating life has pretty much been if the girl is attracted to me or not attracted to me on the date. It doesn’t seem to matter what I say, either she likes me or she doesn’t. If she starts out liking me but then decides she doesn’t like me, I don’t feel like I’m able to change it. If she’s eh about me then she ends up not being attracted to me, I don’t know how to overcome the resistance, I am just not charming enough atm. so basically I only get "yes" girls.

im still not getting an answer on what to do when the girl is resistant. every time, the girl is fkin resistant. this girl at least let me hold hands and do more physical, but she still stopped making eye contact after a while and even when I try to cool off, talk some stuff, and reinitate its the same fkin issue. then I run out of time on the date and she leaves. I got the good advice that I need to calibrate my touching on conversational spikes, but I'm very basic with this and especially if the conversation goes into disarray or the girl has some resistance, I have a hard time reestablishing the good flow

Sorry about the disorderliness, just wrote on my phone, tired as shit.

Idk if I have low self-esteem, I am not sure where you are getting that from. I genuinely thought i am better than the girl on the date, and I think my current fwb is way doper than the girl. I genuinely think I am superior and a great lover but cant understand what to do to help other girls see the light. I thought i had confident body language and everything on the date, on other dates i was kinda nervous but for this one i was not nervous at all, but doesnt fucking matter cuz she didnt think i was it.

 

[mirror]

I get a feeling this girl was not comfortable with me but maybe she was just not attracted to me enough. I don’t fucking know and it’s infuriating

Answer = Let it go. No need to worry about some chick that you most likely won't see again. There is so much here already that the past is not going to teach you more than the stuff already written here (Except the occassional: oh that may have happened, or that, or that).

the only thing I can think of is like just be vulnerable and honest

This one is very interesting. Because honesty is easy. but vulnerability less.
You can be fully honest and still say nothing that truly hits you.
or be totally be dishonest and still be vulnerable due to the subjectmatter
and how someone else handles it compared to what affects you.
That said, I am big on honesty (but slowly)

In the end, any relation, be it for a night or longer, that's worth having requires honesty and next to that a level of vulnerability.
an LTR even more so.
The thing is, the longer we go, the stronger we go, the more vulnerable we become.
humans are not made to go all into vulnerability at once and no girl or guy is the same.
That said, vulnerability can signal authenticity and that in turn attracts.

But what you want to do is not only attract. what you want to do is slowly build towards more vulnerability when someone is actually worth it to you for reason X, Y and Z. That doesn't mean it will go flawless, just means there is going to be more gradually, with setbacks and go forwards: 2 steps forward, 1 step back. that's the way to go, because you edge on the edge of what is vulnerable to you. And not everyone is capable of that level of vulnerability or worth it.

Therefor you start out with small bits and small steps toward it, instead of expecting yourself or someone else to go all vulnerable at once.

But for daygame/nightgame and onenightstands/pickup / short-term seduction, it's just about small steps or small parts of vulnerability. And it's key learning to recognize when someone else is vulnerable and when not. For online game, vulnerability spotting is very hard , so it's easier to talk around things or go for honest conversations. People often make themselves more vulnerable without realizing it and at other moments block it off almost randomly.
Day game and night game wise: vulnerability becomes a less big monster to handle because facial expressions, body language and other cues can give you insight in whether the other is opening up and can make you open up in turn, which creates a big loop in which emotions and feelings run high, and attraction even more so.

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

If she views you as low attainability and is too nervous for arousal spiking, how do you build comfort on a date?'

I build trust with touch and go.

If I grab her hand to get her through a crowd, I let her hand go as soon as we get through the crowd. If I physically isolate the 2 of us, I make sure to get us out of that isolation asap. If say something arousing, I give her room to breathe by changing the subject.

That said,

More importantly, the attainability question is 2 parts -

1) Did I qualify her? It doesn't take long for a girl that's beneath you to feel above you.

2) Empowerment - Have I set her up as some sort of expert/master of her field...

So this is basically asking her a question, where you give her a chance to shine and impress you with something other than her looks.

So if we're at dinner, and she says she's into make up, or shopping, or celeb trivia - I ask a question about one of those topics, and give her a chance to flex, to impress me. And rather than cut her down and not be impressed, I instead get impressed at her breadth and depth of knowledge on Love Island or why Hailey Bieber's new make up line will be better than Kylie Jenner's.

Chicks are always pumping state and looking for a way to pump state.

Give her the opportunity.

All that said, this idea of "low" attainability - You're putting YOUR idea in her head, and ascribing her actions to this mental model you have. She may or may not be behaving a certain way around you because low/high attainability...or she might just have something else going on.

Don't get me wrong, it's a good mental model.

But it's a model with limitations.

It requires you to get into her head (which you can't do) and then you ascribe her actions/reactions based on this framework.

You can stick with the framework, because it helps you to explain the world, OR you can adopt a different framework to help you get the girl.

Do you not deep dive or anything? Curious what @Skills would do too. I know you don't deep dive besides the history of cheating.

I no longer purposefully deep dive before the bang, or after the bang.

Before the bang, it would put me into best friend/great listener category, because I couldn't do it right. (I have gotten better at it)

Post bang, it would be put me out of lover/f-buddy category and into soulmate material (higher than boyfriend material, imo). In the early stages, I want a girl that wants to hook up, not have my children.

Now I just let any deep diving happen naturally, if at all.

And with the deep dive, in my experience, a few things happen.

1. You get info and intel
2. She gets to some sort of understanding of herself by vocalizing things that she thinks/feels
3. but also, she might change her behavior based on how easy you can get her to talk.
   1. She might clam up
   2. She might trauma dump/trauma bond

And

For me, knowing too much about a girl, can cause ME to care too much about her.

For instance, one of my exes used to get bullied in school. Good girl game gets the guy to want to protect her, protect her from everything. Once a guy feels that a chick needs to be protected, some of his critical faculties go out the window.

As it would turn out, I could see why she was bullied - she was out of step with most groups - she couldn't really read a room.

Enough about me...

If the girl is not receptive to the micro escalation and flirting and you need to pull back a bit to not be chasing, what's the move?

In a date situation, there's already some level of attraction (say 2 out of 10). If the date was procured offline, the attraction is greater than an online originated date. (so 2 out of 10, vs 1.5 out of 10)

If there's some level of attraction, my assumption (which I can be wrong about) is that it will naturally grow. That belief can be self-fulfilling.

And lemme be clear about my premise/my overall beliefs - If she's on a date, she's somewhat attracted/okay with the guy's visuals. (his fundamentals). She's not gonna be seen in public with a guy that she doesn't want to be seen in public with.

The attraction that I care about, is how much does she want to interact.

How many times does she poke my buttons to get some emotional stimulation. Cause to an extent the date is about her getting good feelings and good vibes. And I need those feelings on her part to lead to the sex.

To me, visually she is sexy. But I've found that girls want to FEEL sexy, in order to have sex. But me saying she's sexy/beautiful/"cleans up nice" isn't really *the* thing that makes HER feel sexy. That makes me feel like a big man for stating the obvious. Indeed, withholding compliments, or intermittently dropping stuff like that can actually affect the girl more than saying stuff blatantly. (but my preferred subtlety is just one path, bold and brash and take her by storm is another path - both equally valid and effective)

And attraction will grow, trust will grow with more time and more back and forth.
I can think in terms of micro-escalation and flirting, as the next moves to make in the timeline, but I'm inclined to
do

• A lot more Holding eye contact
• Pausing my speech, pregnant pauses
• Changing my facial expression
• Changing my body position
• Make her realizing that I'm thinking about what she said (which makes her uncomfortable, sometimes - but it's sort of a power grab/frame grab - why should she truly care about what I think about what she said/her beliefs)

Getting her to feel is the "game", and I would characterize these "moves" as micro-flirtations and escalations.

You might see them as "nano" flirtations...but for me at least the sex is a foregone conclusion.

All of these things basically start to tip the scales.

In a sense, the date is THE SEX. It's foreplay. In Public, with clothes on.

In terms of flirtation

1. Start the interaction man to woman.
   1. A hand over hand/two hand - handshake
   2. twirl around, lemme see you
   3. hug or
2. But the actual verbal, non-verbal, tactile/kinesthetic/logistic esclations are subtle to less subtle over time.

....

Overall, the moves you make with a particular girls are really just extensions of how YOU think the world works, how you think GIRLS respond.

In my view, a player needs a coherent view of the world.

I think girls LOVE sex. Even the shy ones. Even the virgins. Especially the Feminists.

I think girls like both a slow build up, but also all guns blazing.

I think that girls don't usually want to be the initiators.

A lot of girls think of sex that is something done to them - they're victims, but willing victims.

I think that girls will like sex more, if they think it's something that they do.

None of this really matters to the girl, but what having a "view of the world" is make my actions consistent for me.

And me being consistent is important FOR ME.

Cause these chicks will bang anything.

 

[Skills]

op take a look at this when you get a chance:

Special Girl - Relationships fundamentals part 2: Female psychology on SEX vs. Male psychology on CONNECTION Repost featuring newman/irish asshole

Background story: Alright guys, since a lot of you never had access to nextasf, and is now gone.... I will show you something that is extremely important this is based on a post by pure evil rip, who was at the time one of the top posters on Nextasf and my favorite poster, however, the writer is...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[Skills]

It's clear your missing something in the philosophy behind connecting with people in general.

Read Dale Carnegie's classic How to Win Friends and Influence People.

It lays down the rawest philosophy on connecting with people.

Why do you even need an interesting life story?

I mean it helps but why?

People connect with people who are interested in them, who get them to talk about themselves and actively listen.

Do you get girls doing most of the talking on dates?

the caveat with the book, it has to be combined with other things or will put you into friendzone land....

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

I understand what you are saying that girls just want to have fun and feel emotions. That is what I have been following. But it is not working for me, even if I am just having fun with them and playing with them in the moment. I am not really doing any different compared to the date with the cougar.

I'm just gonna take your word for it.

But to tweak what I'm saying vs what you're saying

You're having fun and cracking jokes.

I'm having fun, cracking jokes, interrogating her condiment choices, getting her to tell me why ranch is superior to mayo, pushing her to be poetic,

I'm putting her through her paces.

The more emotions that I can pull out of her, the more outrageous things that I can get her to say - the better.

My focus is on getting her to ride the emotional roller coaster.

I'm not interested in her long term plans, and she doesn't truly care about mine.

Usually people date within their socio-economic class anyway. So your "values" probably fall on the same continuum as most other guys.

It's not like you're gonna say something like "Hail Satan, my life's goal is to put Lucifer on the throne"

I am literally doing the same shit, just talking basic shit being chilled and persisting. teasing about stuff and self-amused.

This is not really my approach. I don't like to tease (I personally react badly towards some random girl I just met who's gonna tease me), and for me self-amusement is about being in "state".

Following on with Self-Amusement, that came out of the post Game/early RSD/Natural Game era - and the point of being self-amused is that she follows your lead emotionally. If you're having a good time, she's having a good time.

Yet I am failing, now it has been 3-4 times with different girls. (The only difference I can think is that there is less competition for the cougar so she was less picky. She did have better talking skills and openness. Even after we fked she said she thought i was cute and thought it was cool i was into art. Like yeah, I understand the reason for hookup can be quite simple.)

That may or may not be a pattern. Depending on how you met these girls would tell me more.

But realistically it is not different than other normie guys except maybe they move slower. So I am questioning what is wrong and just wrote down in the post "the idea" that you are referring to which is apparently incorrect,

Pick Up ideas aren't necessarily wrong - but a lot of things you just can't know. We can't really know what a girl is thinking, but we can follow her actions.

We supply narratives to situations without patterns mostly for ourselves to have something else to analyze and something new to try.

just what someone with more dating experience told me it can be a comfort issue or relatability issue, like I am not sounding that cool or compelling to her, that I need some kind of story that makes me more interesting to her, like yeah, I don't have any DHV stories or any of that shit, can't really say what i am really passionate about besides improving my dating life and getting laid.

It could be, that could be her thinking - that you're not enough, she doesn't trust you, she doesn't relate to you.

It could very well be that.

And then the course of action is to make yourself into that.

It just follows logically.

But it could also be NOT that at all.

That's what I'm trying to get you to think about.

How I think about these situations is not how YOU should, but rather my read, your experienced friend's read, and your read - are all options.

For me, my full analysis of these 3-4 dates would start with

• How did you become aware of their existence (Tinder, IG, day game, passport game, from the club, through friends)
• How was the date set up? (via text, via phone)
• What was the date itself?
• How did you greet her upon meeting?
• What were your first words?
• How did she appear to react to you when she saw you in that first moment..
• What was the first topic you talked about
• How much talking did she do.

It very well could be that, you are older and more intimidating to these girls.
So you need to have something for them to latch onto....

So the question becomes, why were they attracted in the first place?

Why does the girl put her hand in the lion's cage to touch his tail?

In my opinion, if there's some "value" gap, and all she has to offer is a cute face and a young body - whereas the cougar just sees you as a piece of meat - you have to get at what were the things that sparked that attraction.

Assuming you want to go with this model of the world that you're talking about.

Or you can choose a different model.

he is kind of just a normie but at least he is a natural with way better social skills than me, I don’t have anyone actively mentoring me so I am just taking feedback wherever I can and it sounds reasonable that maybe in this case the girl didn’t feel ready to go up the next step cuz I learned later in the date she is a virgin. She was really shy and stopped making eye contact after hand holding and uncomfortable so I tried to reset the interaction and retry but didn’t work.

I don't advocate dating "young" girls, much less virgins.
I'm not gonna ask about the age gap here.

But with chicks that are timid, and basically avoiding you but staying on the date - you have to step in and change the vibe.

You have to lead emotionally.

This not the exact situation, but it's a parallel

Trevor takes her words SERIOUSLY.

In your case, you need to take her verbals and nonverbals SERIOUSLY.

So if she's not vibing with you like the way that you describe, feeling like she's not in a good position, you have to ADDRESS IT, not just try again in 15 minutes.

I don't agree with "pestering"/"brow beating" game. I never did any last minute resistance busting or any stuff like that.

That type of persistence can lead to regret, and she talks to the wrong person, and you've g(raped) her.

This obviously gets into consent - which we think of during sex phase - but if the chick is shutting down and not participating - even though she got all dressed up and met you IRL - somethings WRONG.

have not talked about my ex or past relationship on the date

Tbh I don’t know how to stand out beyond improving looks or making some more interesting stories about myself and working on being a better listener and talker.

In my view, The date is about her and her experience, not about you and your "value" or "values/hopes/dreams/ambition"

If she goes out with me, I assume she digs me, and the date is just prelude to sex and a quick screen for obvious but not unpreviously discovered red flags.

We (you and I, WIA and 770) don't have the same outlook on what a date is.

If you see it as a display of how cool you are, how good you look - that's going to be a hard thing to keep improving on.

Obviously you want to work out and dress well.
Obviously you want a rich and full and interesting life.
Obviously you want to have the ability to tell a good story...

But the chick is already there, she's already into you enough to be there.

Rather than work on you and yourself (which is something you're already doing), and what you think she wants - I think it's a better idea to focus on the interaction itself.

I am just not finding the edge I need on the date. Maybe hotter guys can get away with it. I think I need an edge on the date, i am a cookie cutter looking asian guy and short, I am just not getting any iois from the girls ive been on dates with

Okay, so some more details.

I answer these questions thinking that all of you guys are just younger versions of me, lol.

You can't think about hotter guys and what they get away. Not all of us can look like Chase!

As for indicators of interest go - IOIs are good training wheels when you start out. Getting good response to your action, makes you stick to the plan.

So if the chick is giving you IODs based on your behavior (or your perception is that you're getting IODs/not getting IOIs) - you obviously need to change your behavior.

Jokes not working?
Tell stories.
Stories not working? Ask questions.
Questions not working? Play games.
Games not working, Set Frames.
Can't set frames? Change environments.

I can go on and on, but if you have the chick out and the goal is to "show her a good time" - the world is your oyster.

I have an issue getting interested girls at all in the pipeline for dates, it has been a real struggle. tons of unmatching, ghosting, flaking, etc. If I say something weird or tryhard or too flirty then i get unmatched or ghosted.

The truth comes out.
You're meeting girls online, which gives them a ton of power.

You're playing the game on the hardest setting.

Say what you want about RSD Papa, (or his wife) but

You want to focus your efforts on meeting girls in real life.

i am always hard leading the conversations or handling their objections or disinterest and trying to revive a dead convo. I need to get better photos but for now have been trying to go for the artistic vibe, every girl ive been on a date with is pretty much interested in the date because they thought I was artistic from my profile, so maybe what i am on the date is incongruent (yet the cougar didnt seem to have an issue), and also my profile is not sexual at all, actually pretty boring.

Yeah, at this point, I can't really give any insight. Online Game is rigged against guys. Without ever even seeing you, a lot of chicks that might dig you, filter you out.

so I am getting girls that are not really dtf or looking to hookup compared to perhaps other girls. yeah maybe it is causing me to get inexperienced girls or girls that are actively screening out players so its fucking me for getting what i want on the dates. either way i am just not standing out on the date.

Optimizing your game for DTF, is difficult online. But again, I'm straying out of my element.

I am just frustrated because so far my dating life has pretty much been if the girl is attracted to me or not attracted to me on the date. It doesn’t seem to matter what I say, either she likes me or she doesn’t. If she starts out liking me but then decides she doesn’t like me, I don’t feel like I’m able to change it. If she’s eh about me then she ends up not being attracted to me, I don’t know how to overcome the resistance, I am just not charming enough atm. so basically I only get "yes" girls.

Gotcha. If you're meeting chicks IRL from online sources - they like your pics, but they realize they don't like being in your presence.

You're trying to technique your way into the panties and having a tough time of it.

I have ideas on this, but I have no experience with this.

My only suggestion for meeting DTF chicks is that you focus on night game or social circle game.

And I realize this is not what you wanted to hear. I'd be mad as hell if someone told me to stop doing night game, cause I was complaining about not meeting quality prospects. (Social circle, imo, is better at pulling out those secondary/tertiary behavioral things that you don't necessarily see from night game origin LTRs)

im still not getting an answer on what to do when the girl is resistant. every time, the girl is fkin resistant. this girl at least let me hold hands and do more physical, but she still stopped making eye contact after a while and even when I try to cool off, talk some stuff, and reinitate its the same fkin issue. then I run out of time on the date and she leaves. I got the good advice that I need to calibrate my touching on conversational spikes, but I'm very basic with this and especially if the conversation goes into disarray or the girl has some resistance, I have a hard time reestablishing the good flow

So you put your paws on her, and she's not feeling it. It in fact shuts her down.

You want to recover from something that's pretty bad
More over, you want to "hold hands" with her (which is fairly intimate and lovey dovey and the opposite of DTF)

So dude meets a chick on a dating app, meets up in real life, and at some point he tries to hold her hand, and she's repulsed.

What's she repulsed by?

In my experience, it's the neediness.

Like I was saying to the homie KJ - touch and go.

YaReally put me on to this, but you want to make a move, make the move then drop it before she realizes it.

Be it flirting, moving her around, kino, emotional discussion - any type of escalation is about letting go well before it gets uncomfortable.

Sorry about the disorderliness, just wrote on my phone, tired as shit.

Idk if I have low self-esteem, I am not sure where you are getting that from. I genuinely thought i am better than the girl on the date, and I think my current fwb is way doper than the girl. I genuinely think I am superior and a great lover but cant understand what to do to help other girls see the light. I thought i had confident body language and everything on the date, on other dates i was kinda nervous but for this one i was not nervous at all, but doesnt fucking matter cuz she didnt think i was it.

I like the dichotomy between admitting LSE but also the frank evaluation of your own life.

There's probably a lot more here, but hopefully I've given you something to chew on.

 

[James D]

the caveat with the book, it has to be combined with other things or will put you into friendzone land....

Goes without saying, yes.

OP's missing a fundamental understanding of connecting not only with girls but with people in general.

He seems to be good at attraction so I assume he'll won't fall for the pitfalls of the book which indeed can land you in the friendzone.

 

[770]

Thank you for all the feedback I am going to try to think on this and change my m.o.

 

[Skills]

If she views you as low attainability and is too nervous for arousal spiking, how do you build comfort on a date?

Do you not deep dive or anything? Curious what @Skills would do too. I know you don't deep dive besides the history of cheating.

If the girl is not receptive to the microi escalation and flirting and you need to pull back a bit to not be chasing, what's the move?

I just honestly think he just doesn't know how to properly run a date tbh... When I was trying to run dates i had similar.... Op later when I get home i will link you how to run a date properly...

 

[770]

I just honestly think he just doesn't know how to properly run a date tbh... When I was trying to run dates i had similar.... Op later when I get home i will link you how to run a date properly...

you mean the 3 bounce thing? I want to do that but I live in the suburbs and so does she. sf is like an hour away. Everything is logistically inconvenient for me and every girl wants me to go close to her area, if I ask for them to come to my area they ghost or flake. I am always having to drive to the girl 20-40 min away on the dates and try to scout areas beforehand that im not familiar with its fucking aids. its hard to pull as theres not really any cool venues near my spot and I also live with my folks