Not enjoying seduction, dates, sex etc.

[raiden]

Hey peeps. First, I'll give some backstory. I used to be a long term incel. I would go on 10-20 app dates per year, get rejected or screw up every time and end up with no lays and no relationships. You can see my field/date reports here if you look at my past posts and you'll see that I have screwed up a lot. My fundamentals are poor, or average at best, and it's likely that I'm on the autism spectrum. However, I think that the autism is mild (or I would have been officially diagnosed sometime in my life) and that it affects me mostly in terms of my daily routines and less so in my social interactions. So I don't want to use that as an excuse!

Anyway, in the past 6 months I managed to get laid with more than one chick. This is a record for me because I would previously go more than 1 year between lays. Some were long drawn out sequences of dates while others were faster, and I definitely learned a few things. But I just don't seem to enjoy it. Firstly, dates can get boring. I'm often on a date, and it's not even going badly, and I'm thinking about how I'd rather be at home reading a book or watching TV. I think that I'm just not that social. Secondly, I just don't seem to find sex that exciting. I get excited about it but there is always some problem. For example, I might get naked with the chick and find out that her body shape isn't quite what I like. Or I can't position myself just right. Or, there's some issue with the condom placement. I'm sorry to say that at the end of it all, I feel like I would have been better off at home jerking off or using a male sex toy with the internet. The third thing is that this dating and seduction stuff really is tough. Move too slowly and you're out so you have to move fast even if you don't feel like it. Send the wrong text or spend too long to reply or sound awkward over a phone call and you could be out. In general, the pressure is high. I'm also sure that the pressure ramps way up when you start trying to date above average or very desirable women, though I haven't gotten that far yet.

So, anyway, are my experiences normal and do most people find that seduction and dating is a big slog with not much of a payoff? Or am I kind of an exception, like a tribal/small town guy who would be better off having an arranged marriage without any dating or choice or optimization for the best mate?

 

[Spike]

I'm often on a date, and it's not even going badly, and I'm thinking about how I'd rather be at home reading a book or watching TV. I think that I'm just not that social. Secondly, I just don't seem to find sex that exciting. I get excited about it but there is always some problem. For example, I might get naked with the chick and find out that her body shape isn't quite what I like. Or I can't position myself just right. Or, there's some issue with the condom placement. I'm sorry to say that at the end of it all, I feel like I would have been better off at home jerking off or using a male sex toy with the internet

Sounds like you’re going on dates with below average women. I’d much rather be at home too if I were you.

I'm also sure that the pressure ramps way up when you start trying to date above average or very desirable women, though I haven't gotten that far yet.

Yeah I had a feeling lol. But yeah In the beginning you might feel a lot of pressure to not fuck it up. You don’t want to mess up your chances to finally bang a girl who you’re actually excited for. But then after you been with enough of them the pressure goes way down. Been there done that. But the sex will still be just as great as the first girl you banged that you were excited about.

 

[MrVariety]

Firstly, dates can get boring. I'm often on a date, and it's not even going badly, and I'm thinking about how I'd rather be at home reading a book or watching TV. I think that I'm just not that social.

The third thing is that this dating and seduction stuff really is tough. Move too slowly and you're out so you have to move fast even if you don't feel like it. Send the wrong text or spend too long to reply or sound awkward over a phone call and you could be out. In general, the pressure is high. I'm also sure that the pressure ramps way up when you start trying to date above average or very desirable women, though I haven't gotten that far yet.

This seems contradictory. How can dating be both boring and too much pressure at the same time? The fact that you think reading books is more fun than dating and having sex should alleviate all pressure, no?

If your dates are not enjoyable for you, it's probably that you're either with the wrong type of girls or are doing boring activities while dating. Where are you finding these women? Online? That's usually rolling the dice. What interests do you have? Is there any place you can go to where you are very likely to meet women who might be interesting to you?

What are you doing on dates? Have you considered doing something more fun like activity dates?

Also, if you're too comfortable in certain social situations, it's up to you to make it more fun by pushing the boundaries. What about making jokes, saying things that might get you into trouble? Being "edgy" can be fun because you're exploring social unknowns while also expressing a less filtered version of yourself.

Secondly, I just don't seem to find sex that exciting. I get excited about it but there is always some problem. For example, I might get naked with the chick and find out that her body shape isn't quite what I like. Or I can't position myself just right. Or, there's some issue with the condom placement. I'm sorry to say that at the end of it all, I feel like I would have been better off at home jerking off or using a male sex toy with the internet.

Hmm, well if I get naked with a chick and her body shape isn't what I like, I'd rather read a book or watch TV too, lol. Having said that, do you lift weights, eat healthy, and abstain from pornography?

 

[raiden]

This seems contradictory. How can dating be both boring and too much pressure at the same time? The fact that you think reading books is more fun than dating and having sex should alleviate all pressure, no?

It's high pressure because I know that the date can go wrong if I make the slightest mistake. If it does, then I have sacrificed my TV or book time for nothing. If it goes well, then there are more challenges coming up.

If your dates are not enjoyable for you, it's probably that you're either with the wrong type of girls or are doing boring activities while dating. Where are you finding these women? Online? That's usually rolling the dice. What interests do you have? Is there any place you can go to where you are very likely to meet women who might be interesting to you?

All these women are from online dating systems, yes. My interests are fitness or nerdy things like reading or art. I think that I would be very excited for a bona fide fitness girl or an art student or scientist. But this line of thinking seems to be heading towards cold approaching. Maybe I could do that, but it'll be a steep and long learning curve for me. I'm already middle aged and it took me several years to get to where I am.

What are you doing on dates? Have you considered doing something more fun like activity dates?

The dates are one of the following. Dinner date plus walk, art museum or gallery date, crazy golf date, video game arcade date, walk in the park date, date at her place/my place/ hotel. The only date in that list where I might do or see something new art the art gallery dates. I'm not an exciting person. I like to go to the movies or sit reading a book or playing a video game. They don't make good dates.

Also, if you're too comfortable in certain social situations, it's up to you to make it more fun by pushing the boundaries. What about making jokes, saying things that might get you into trouble? Being "edgy" can be fun because you're exploring social unknowns while also expressing a less filtered version of yourself.

Yeah this is a good idea for sure. I could set myself a wacky challenge on dates and see how it goes.

Hmm, well if I get naked with a chick and her body shape isn't what I like, I'd rather read a book or watch TV too, lol. Having said that, do you lift weights, eat healthy, and abstain from pornography?

Yeah it has happened to me more than once that I was a bit less excited after we both got naked compared to when we were fully dressed. Yeah I eat clean and I lift. But I have poor genetics so I lift the same weight as bigger guys in my gym but I don't have big muscles myself. I do look at internet smut but not pornography.

 

[MrVariety]

It's high pressure because I know that the date can go wrong if I make the slightest mistake.

This could be the potential underlying issue. You're going on dates as if to just say and do the "correct" things and not "screw up," trying to keep yourself on a tight-rope of practicing "good game."

Following up with what I suggested earlier with pushing boundaries and being edgy -- try to go on dates with the attitude "I'm going to have fun" instead of "I'm going to try to make her like me" or get X Y Z or whatever. This slight attitude shift can help a ton... believe it or not... the only criteria for the success of the night is you having fun. Spoiler alert: what ends up happening is that you'll ironically end up getting X Y Z as a byproduct of focusing on your own state and amusement. (but dont think about that!)

If it does, then I have sacrificed my TV or book time for nothing. If it goes well, then there are more challenges coming up.

I've never heard any guy being afraid of a date going bad since he had sacrificed TV time. You made me laugh, thanks.

All these women are from online dating systems, yes. My interests are fitness or nerdy things like reading or art. I think that I would be very excited for a bona fide fitness girl or an art student or scientist. But this line of thinking seems to be heading towards cold approaching. Maybe I could do that, but it'll be a steep and long learning curve for me. I'm already middle aged and it took me several years to get to where I am.

Cold approach in the day time would be invaluable for you. It's not for everyone since it's quite a bit commitment. What I can say it's not only a way to get girls but it's probably the most transformative thing a guy can involve himself in.

The dates are one of the following. Dinner date plus walk, art museum or gallery date, crazy golf date, video game arcade date, walk in the park date, date at her place/my place/ hotel. The only date in that list where I might do or see something new art the art gallery dates. I'm not an exciting person. I like to go to the movies or sit reading a book or playing a video game. They don't make good dates.

Seems fine to me. You mentioned fitness. What about fitness related dates? Going to the gym together is one of my favorite type of dates, I didn't do them until a year ago for some reason. What about library dates? It's totally cool to me introverted and bookish, and ideally you want to bring girls to activities you'd be doing anyway. I sound like a dick now, but if the selection is too narrow, you might consider trying to expand you interests, get out of the house more and try more things instead of watching TV or play video games.

Yeah it has happened to me more than once that I was a bit less excited after we both got naked compared to when we were fully dressed. Yeah I eat clean and I lift. But I have poor genetics so I lift the same weight as bigger guys in my gym but I don't have big muscles myself. I do look at internet smut but not pornography.

Yeah that happens when there's not much to look at. Probably nothing sexually pathological about you. Your personality might just be not that erotically inclined toward novel women. A lot of guys get super excited despite not great bodies just for the novelty. No need to force it if that's not you. As for muscles, I'm 99% sure it's not your genetics, but more about the training style.

Mr Variety

 

[raiden]

Cold approach in the day time would be invaluable for you. It's not for everyone since it's quite a bit commitment. What I can say it's not only a way to get girls but it's probably the most transformative thing a guy can involve himself in.

Why would cold approach help me in particular, do you think? Is it because I probably can not really fake being excited when approaching and so if I get a date from cold approach, it would be with a woman who I'm excited about? I'm just hesitant. Chase has written more recently about how cold approach is not right for some guys or some guys are just not ready for it. That could be me because I have my poor fundamentals and it takes me a super long time to learn any social thing. To put it into perspective, I've been reading GC since 2017 and that's when I started on my online dating journey. But in the last 2 years, women have almost always at least shown me some respect instead of giving me a painful rejection, so I guess there's no reason for me to be afraid of cold approach at this point.

Seems fine to me. You mentioned fitness. What about fitness related dates? Going to the gym together is one of my favorite type of dates, I didn't do them until a year ago for some reason. What about library dates? It's totally cool to me introverted and bookish, and ideally you want to bring girls to activities you'd be doing anyway. I sound like a dick now, but if the selection is too narrow, you might consider trying to expand you interests, get out of the house more and try more things instead of watching TV or play video games.

Gym dates would not be good because gym is my peaceful place while dates are a challenging thing with high stakes. Library dates could work but I don't want to stray from Chase's 3 Cs of conversation, closeness and cheap (covert too?). The library may not be conducive to conversation.

Yeah that happens when there's not much to look at. Probably nothing sexually pathological about you. Your personality might just be not that erotically inclined toward novel women. A lot of guys get super excited despite not great bodies just for the novelty. No need to force it if that's not you. As for muscles, I'm 99% sure it's not your genetics, but more about the training style.

Here's how I might explain it. Usually, on the Internet or out and about, the more revealing a woman's outfit, the more exciting she looks. So you expect that when you undress her to her underwear or to naked, you'd get maximally excited. But recently it has been kind of the opposite and I've recognised stuff like body fat that I didn't notice with the clothes. I don't know if it's my Internet standards or that the women just aren't right for me. I see lots of exciting looking women day to day but they're always slim.

Also, last time this was applicable, I had a much better time on the second lay with a new lover than the first. So I guess that novelty doesn't do it for me.

 

[MrVariety]

Why would cold approach help me in particular, do you think? Is it because I probably can not really fake being excited when approaching and so if I get a date from cold approach, it would be with a woman who I'm excited about? I'm just hesitant. Chase has written more recently about how cold approach is not right for some guys or some guys are just not ready for it. That could be me because I have my poor fundamentals and it takes me a super long time to learn any social thing. To put it into perspective, I've been reading GC since 2017 and that's when I started on my online dating journey. But in the last 2 years, women have almost always at least shown me some respect instead of giving me a painful rejection, so I guess there's no reason for me to be afraid of cold approach at this point.

Cold approach is simply a more effective method of meeting girls than online. When you meet a girl via cold approach you can within the first 10 seconds know her fundamental personality, and within a couple minutes you'll stand a reasonable chance of knowing whether you'd have fun on a date with her or not. So you never end up on boring dates from cold approach.

With online dating you can't really do that.

Another factor is that cold approach in day time suits your temperament and your taste in girls. Of course you can meet nerdy girls or fit girls online, but simply having the ability to know how to walk up to a woman and start a conversation unsolicited in an environment where you're likely to meet your kind of women, is a superpower.

Thirdly it's a vehicle for self-improvement. You mentioned fundamentals. I believe the intensity of cold-approach pick up gives you more drive to work harder on your fundamentals. Cold approach is essentially the cultivation of courage and social calibration to talk to strangers - it's a great way to develop social skills faster - and a resilient character and healthy mindsets. It definitely delivers healthy doses of ego checks for example.

The threshold of starting to cold approach is pretty low. If you basically have no life, no friends, no hobbies, no job, no social skills, etc. then cold approach is putting the cart before the horse. Fundamentals and cold approach is mutually reinforcing - but if you're starting from scratch, then there's better ways of getting your life in order than approaching women. You're beyond that and you will benefit from doing this.

Gym dates would not be good because gym is my peaceful place while dates are a challenging thing with high stakes.

I don't see the logic. Why not bring girls into your peaceful place?

. I don't know if it's my Internet standards or that the women just aren't right for me. I see lots of exciting looking women day to day but they're always slim.

I don't know how slim you're talking about, but if your taste is within normal range of slim, then the only way to find out is if you start having sex with slim girls.

Mr Variety

 

[Skills]

this is common with online, it happens to everyone that does online.... it even happens to women that do online...

 

[TomInHo]

Honestly, you might feel asexual because you’re chasing women you’re not genuinely into

Sex is kind of like eating food

If you’re not hungry and you eat something bland, of course you won’t enjoy it

But if you eat something you really like, even when you’re not that hungry, it still hits the spot

So maybe your issue isn’t sex drive at all

Maybe you’re just eating off the wrong menu

TL;DR: Stop going on dates with women you’re not physically attracted to

If it helps, set a rule like, never go on a date with a girl below an 8 by your standards

Sure, this approach might make you bang fewer women…

But at least when you look back, you’ll be proud of the quality, not questioning if all the work you put in was worth it

 

[Spike]

In the beginning you might feel a lot of pressure to not fuck it up. You don’t want to mess up your chances to finally bang a girl who you’re actually excited for. But then after you been with enough of them the pressure goes way down. Been there done that. But the sex will still be just as great as the first girl you banged that you were excited about

Recent example of zero pressure. This is the latest girl (whose photo got deleted by mods again. When tho I blurred 99% of her face (a small part of her eye was showing) (Sidenote for those wondering why I post pics of all my lays. Is just to show that you can pull these types of girls very easily without doing anything complicated besides just following my basic advice) that I just posted a LR of who is very beautiful. Been here a billion times but the excitement to bang is still very much there