Not sure what to make of it

[LFAD12]

Just wanted to drop this to sort it out and get some outsider feedback.

I frequently go gymming but try to hold onto my unspoken rule/principle of strictly focusing on my workout.
But you know, time to time, you see another person who you think is attractive and if they keep returning, a crush can develop.

So I developed this crush on this girl whom sporadically seems to train in the same place.

With her, it happened instantly as I first saw her, and ofcourse she caught me looking at her.
Since I don't want to creep anyone out or make them uncomfortable, I hold back on this behaviour as much as possible.
So, I continued my workout and minded my own business.

Next encounter, a week later, I'm waiting at a machine, too see who's leaving.
Lo' and behold, she arrives, and answers in a rather neutral tone, while avoiding eye contact, she's just starting out, points her finger and face in the direction of another machine, telling me that one is free. Only looking at me like multiple seconds later, since I didn't immediately respond.
As for me, I got stuck in of those sudden surges of attraction, where your mind slows down and you just get stuck in this feeling, probably radiating a certain *energy* - and chances are, she picked up on this.
So, when she looked at me, I had to snap myself out of out it and went like: "Oh right, thank you."

Initially I thought she wanted nothing to do with due to her neutral tone and her avoiding eye contact.
But after this interaction, things started shifting (at least in my interpretation they did).
That same training, she suddeny placed herself and her mat right next to me, to do some stretches and use a part of a machine in that location.
Otherwise, the area was empty, and had more than enough space.
I had to use another machine, moved away, and when I needed to get the mat back, I created some space between us, since it felt strange to go back to sitting straight next to her in an otherwise empty area - and to give her space, as well.
Something inside was like: "Man, talk to her, it's a good moment." Something else went like: "Best just let her focus on the training."

I didn't approach.
As I passed by her to put my mat away, I caught her looking at me - felt deliberate.

So, from that point I started feeling a little puzzled about all of this.
Initially, I felt no interest and just neutral communication.
But afterwards, she places herself close to me, and starts giving me glances.

Weeks go by, I don't see her.

Just today, while I had a massive headache and wanted to get out that place as fast as possible, she's back again.

I focus on my training, and getting back to bed as soon as possible.
But at a certain point, when looking at her walking on a treadmill across the gym, I caught her gazing at me.
Like very deliberate, kinda studying me.

Couldn't hold the eye contact, got nervous, felt a massive headache.

Now I'm just wondering if she picked up on the fact that I'm into her?
Last look felt as if she was trying to get some kind of read on me.
Or maybe some kind of curiosity.
I don't really know.

The headache was a bad thing, but chances are I'll run into her again.

Think she would react positively if I tried to start up a conversation?
Also, for people experienced in the gym, what is the best way to go about this?

By not being able to hold eye contact last time, or not talking when she was close to me th me other session, and assuming there is some kind of interest on her part, would these actions ruin any chances?

But most of all, what do you people think of this, in general.
I know I'm reading way too hard into this, so some outsider perspective and advice would be nice.

 

[Will_V]

Yes she caught onto your attraction for her, specifically this part:

As for me, I got stuck in of those sudden surges of attraction, where your mind slows down and you just get stuck in this feeling, probably radiating a certain *energy* - and chances are, she picked up on this.

Women know when this happens, it's unmistakable for them. In fact, it's something I consciously expand and express when approaching, because I know what an impression it makes.

And it seems pretty clear that she is waiting for you to come and talk to her! She'd have to be holding up a sign to be any more obvious.

There's an article on gym approaches here.

 

[LFAD12]

Yes she caught onto your attraction for her, specifically this part:



Women know when this happens, it's unmistakable for them. In fact, it's something I consciously expand and express when approaching, because I know what an impression it makes.

And it seems pretty clear that she is waiting for you to come and talk to her! She'd have to be holding up a sign to be any more obvious.

There's an article on gym approaches here.

Ok, thanks for clarifying.
My gut was right all along.

Now, the initial encounter was a little ambiguous.
The second encounter, she was clearly gazing at me, studying me, trying to figure me out.
I just couldn't make the eye contact thing happen, so from her perspective it may have came off as ignoring, dismissing.

I'm just a little worried this may have caused her to check-out, and possibly start avoiding, auto-rejecting me.
Or am I panicking too soon?

 

[Will_V]

Ok, thanks for clarifying.
My gut was right all along.

Now, the initial encounter was a little ambiguous.
The second encounter, she was clearly gazing at me, studying me, trying to figure me out.
I just couldn't make the eye contact thing happen, so from her perspective it may have came off as ignoring, dismissing.

I'm just a little worried this may have caused her to check-out, and possibly start avoiding, auto-rejecting me.
Or am I panicking too soon?

That's why it's always best to make contact as soon as possible after it becomes clear to both of you that you have eachothers attention, that way things don't eventually wane out or get awkward.

Just wait until she starts looking at you again and go talk to her. Read that article I linked on gym approaching.

 

[average_daygamer]

I really like your post, Op, because it is so relatable.

These gym scenarios are completely ambiguous.

You think the girl was looking at you.

But was she just looking around the room? She was probably looking at everyone, just like we all do.

When you look at the big tatt'ed up meathead, does that mean you are attracted to him? Of course it doesn't.

I have this similar thing with a girl at my gym. She reminds me of Laura Croft (the video game character) she is in shape with a long black ponytail.

I want to talk to her. I almost talked to her.

When I was on sat in front of the dumbbell rack on the line if adjustable benches, there were a group of teenagers working out next to me, looking like they might have been using the adjustable bench that was next to me.

She came up to that bench and asked the teens "are you guys using this" they said no.

Was that a sign she wanted me to talk to her? By picking the bench next to me?

I think not. Did she glance in my direction a few times whilst I was working out on the bench?

Probably.

Was that a sign? Of course it wasn't.

She spent 1/2 an hour doing split squats on the smith machine.

I could see her in the mirror behind the dumbbell rack.

I could have got up from my adjustable bench, approached her and say back down after the outcome.

Why didn't I do that? Because it would have felt too awkward going back to my bench afterwards, where I could see her reflection in the mirror after a potentially awkward rejection.

I still had several sets left to do on the adjustable bench at the dumbbell rack.

Do you see where I am going with this?

 

[Will_V]

I really like your post, Op, because it is so relatable.

These gym scenarios are completely ambiguous.

You think the girl was looking at you.

But was she just looking around the room? She was probably looking at everyone, just like we all do.

When you look at the big tatt'ed up meathead, does that mean you are attracted to him? Of course it doesn't.

I have this similar thing with a girl at my gym. She reminds me of Laura Croft (the video game character) she is in shape with a long black ponytail.

I want to talk to her. I almost talked to her.

When I was on sat in front of the dumbbell rack on the line if adjustable benches, there were a group of teenagers working out next to me, looking like they might have been using the adjustable bench that was next to me.

She came up to that bench and asked the teens "are you guys using this" they said no.

Was that a sign she wanted me to talk to her? By picking the bench next to me?

I think not. Did she glance in my direction a few times whilst I was working out on the bench?

Probably.

Was that a sign? Of course it wasn't.

She spent 1/2 an hour doing split squats on the smith machine.

I could see her in the mirror behind the dumbbell rack.

I could have got up from my adjustable bench, approached her and say back down after the outcome.

Why didn't I do that? Because it would have felt too awkward going back to my bench afterwards, where I could see her reflection in the mirror after a potentially awkward rejection.

I still had several sets left to do on the adjustable bench at the dumbbell rack.

Do you see where I am going with this?

What exactly is your point here? Is it that:

a. She might not actually be looking at you in an interested way
b. She might reject you and you'll feel weird

so you should just forget about it..?

These two things are in effect in virtually every approach situation. As long as you're chill, smooth, and not super direct (read the article again) you'll be fine.

You can even just smile and wave as you walk past, and only stop to talk if she smiles back.

 

[LFAD12]

I really like your post, Op, because it is so relatable.

These gym scenarios are completely ambiguous.

You think the girl was looking at you.

But was she just looking around the room? She was probably looking at everyone, just like we all do.

When you look at the big tatt'ed up meathead, does that mean you are attracted to him? Of course it doesn't.

I have this similar thing with a girl at my gym. She reminds me of Laura Croft (the video game character) she is in shape with a long black ponytail.

I want to talk to her. I almost talked to her.

When I was on sat in front of the dumbbell rack on the line if adjustable benches, there were a group of teenagers working out next to me, looking like they might have been using the adjustable bench that was next to me.

She came up to that bench and asked the teens "are you guys using this" they said no.

Was that a sign she wanted me to talk to her? By picking the bench next to me?

I think not. Did she glance in my direction a few times whilst I was working out on the bench?

Probably.

Was that a sign? Of course it wasn't.

She spent 1/2 an hour doing split squats on the smith machine.

I could see her in the mirror behind the dumbbell rack.

I could have got up from my adjustable bench, approached her and say back down after the outcome.

Why didn't I do that? Because it would have felt too awkward going back to my bench afterwards, where I could see her reflection in the mirror after a potentially awkward rejection.

I still had several sets left to do on the adjustable bench at the dumbbell rack.

Do you see where I am going with this?

What exactly is your point here? Is it that:

a. She might not actually be looking at you in an interested way
b. She might reject you and you'll feel weird

so you should just forget about it..?

These two things are in effect in virtually every approach situation. As long as you're chill, smooth, and not super direct (read the article again) you'll be fine.

You can even just smile and wave as you walk past, and only stop to talk if she smiles back.

I understand your point.
Maybe you're right.
Especially in gym, ambiguity is standard.
Maybe I was reading too much, possibly projecting my inner state onto her.
Who knows.

Yesterday I saw her and tried to clear all the ambiguity - approach if possible.
I had to take a mat just beside her workout place.
She looked at me, immediately averted her gaze.
When she left the area not much later, I was like "you know what, fuck it".
I deliberately looked at her, trying to get any eye contact or green light.
Her?
She walked past slowly, rather tense, uncomfortable, looking straight ahead.
Her eyes looked fearful, tense, with those narrow pupils.
She's probably creeped out.
And as soon as this shit happens, it's game over.

Was I wrong in all of my assumptions?
Maybe.
Maybe she picked up on my doubtful, hesitant energy, and got unnerved.
Maybe the lack of communication created this unspoken tension - it sure did for me.
Maybe I read too much into it.

One thing is certain: I'm never looking her way again - attraction or not.

 

[Will_V]

I understand your point.
Maybe you're right.
Especially in gym, ambiguity is standard.
Maybe I was reading too much, possibly projecting my inner state onto her.
Who knows.

Yesterday I saw her and tried to clear all the ambiguity - approach if possible.
I had to take a mat just beside her workout place.
She looked at me, immediately averted her gaze.
When she left the area not much later, I was like "you know what, fuck it".
I deliberately looked at her, trying to get any eye contact or green light.
Her?
She walked past slowly, rather tense, uncomfortable, looking straight ahead.
Her eyes looked fearful, tense, with those narrow pupils.
She's probably creeped out.
And as soon as this shit happens, it's game over.

Was I wrong in all of my assumptions?
Maybe.
Maybe she picked up on my doubtful, hesitant energy, and got unnerved.
Maybe the lack of communication created this unspoken tension - it sure did for me.
Maybe I read too much into it.

One thing is certain: I'm never looking her way again - attraction or not.

That's a classic thing when you're learning to seduce, it happened a lot to me when I started out. There's a period of you two checking eachother out, there's some nice tension in the air, and then you try to make something happen without 'risking' anything by staring at her and trying to make things 100% obvious. The tension explodes and she gets super uncomfortable, end of story.

This is one of the conundrums of approaching. It's like schroedingers cat. Did attraction ever exist? The only way is to approach and find out, because as soon as you make things obvious without approaching, everything collapses into zero. Because even if she was attracted, there's no way that a dude who's staring at her and afraid to approach is going to keep that attraction alive.

Something I've been reflecting on a lot lately applies here: everything you do with women must be an invitation. That is, an offer of something: to talk to you, to flirt with you, to go out with you, to come to bed with you. But when we stop inviting, when we stare or show tons of intent and try to pin her attraction to us down in such a way that it cannot escape - when we try to seize her attraction and prove that it exists - it dies.

We can only invite her, that's all. Seduction is an invitation to dance - for her to show herself, to express herself, and to be seen and delighted in. But never to be sprung upon with the cheque, to be suddenly pressured into handing over that attraction to us even if we have reason to believe that she is in possession of it.

A woman is always free to go, and never responsible. The only way to make her come to us is to invite her over in a way that she is comfortable and happy to comply with.

 

[LFAD12]

That's a classic thing when you're learning to seduce, it happened a lot to me when I started out. There's a period of you two checking eachother out, there's some nice tension in the air, and then you try to make something happen without 'risking' anything by staring at her and trying to make things 100% obvious. The tension explodes and she gets super uncomfortable, end of story.

This is one of the conundrums of approaching. It's like schroedingers cat. Did attraction ever exist? The only way is to approach and find out, because as soon as you make things obvious without approaching, everything collapses into zero. Because even if she was attracted, there's no way that a dude who's staring at her and afraid to approach is going to keep that attraction alive.

Something I've been reflecting on a lot lately applies here: everything you do with women must be an invitation. That is, an offer of something: to talk to you, to flirt with you, to go out with you, to come to bed with you. But when we stop inviting, when we stare or show tons of intent and try to pin her attraction to us down in such a way that it cannot escape - when we try to seize her attraction and prove that it exists - it dies.

We can only invite her, that's all. Seduction is an invitation to dance - for her to show herself, to express herself, and to be seen and delighted in. But never to be sprung upon with the cheque, to be suddenly pressured into handing over that attraction to us even if we have reason to believe that she is in possession of it.

A woman is always free to go, and never responsible. The only way to make her come to us is to invite her over in a way that she is comfortable and happy to comply with.

Yes, this post helps out a lot.
I'm going to apply this state of mind from now on.
The cat analogy is states it the way it is.

Not that I have any hope of left - but have you experienced any cases where, despite the situation unfolding in this particular way, you did manage to rekindle the spark/interest/attraction?
Is this even possible?

 

[Will_V]

Yes, this post helps out a lot.
I'm going to apply this state of mind from now on.
The cat analogy is states it the way it is.

Not that I have any hope of left - but have you experienced any cases where, despite the situation unfolding in this particular way, you did manage to rekindle the spark/interest/attraction?
Is this even possible?

Frankly the best way to deal with this is to simply go "oh ok that went the wrong way, that's probably the end of it, let me just get on with everything else". A woman can only potentially start chasing again if she realizes she's the only one still reacting to the situation, as a way to provoke you into becoming re-engaged - but then you can manage things a little better. Maybe she will never start chasing again. It's up to her.

Being around women is like being in a garden full of birds. Some of them might come over and sit on your lap, or some of them might come near and then go away, never to return again. All you can do is do what you already came to the garden for, enjoy the general presence of the birds, and if one of them comes near, make an invitation, and have no expectations. But if you start chasing birds around, none of them will get within twenty feet of you.

There are lots and lots of women everywhere, so getting hung up on any particular one is pointless.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

That's a classic thing when you're learning to seduce, it happened a lot to me when I started out. There's a period of you two checking eachother out, there's some nice tension in the air, and then you try to make something happen without 'risking' anything by staring at her and trying to make things 100% obvious. The tension explodes and she gets super uncomfortable, end of story.

This is one of the conundrums of approaching. It's like schroedingers cat. Did attraction ever exist? The only way is to approach and find out, because as soon as you make things obvious without approaching, everything collapses into zero. Because even if she was attracted, there's no way that a dude who's staring at her and afraid to approach is going to keep that attraction alive.

That's a great lesson. I don't generally do it when I am out with a goal to approach, but in social circles or environments where I am worried of the backlash of a failed cold approach I would sometimes fall into this habit of checking girls out. My idea has been to make sure if any is interested back, in order to not do an uncalibrated approach somewhere that I would have social repercussions.

But I guess in the end, just stating your interest and even inviting a girl out can't go any bad if you are cool about any result. I did it with a girl in a social dancing event last week in fact, and this date offer felt more stressful than most closes I've done cold approaching. She told me she had a boyfriend, but I feel I handled it fairly well, I introduced myself to her friend too and said we can dance again another time.

And most importantly I know that from my side that's totally fine. She is cute and I had fun dancing with her anyway, so nothing bad with enjoying this feminine energy more just in that context.

 

[average_daygamer]

I understand your point.
Maybe you're right.
Especially in gym, ambiguity is standard.
Maybe I was reading too much, possibly projecting my inner state onto her.
Who knows.

Yesterday I saw her and tried to clear all the ambiguity - approach if possible.
I had to take a mat just beside her workout place.
She looked at me, immediately averted her gaze.
When she left the area not much later, I was like "you know what, fuck it".
I deliberately looked at her, trying to get any eye contact or green light.
Her?
She walked past slowly, rather tense, uncomfortable, looking straight ahead.
Her eyes looked fearful, tense, with those narrow pupils.
She's probably creeped out.
And as soon as this shit happens, it's game over.

Was I wrong in all of my assumptions?
Maybe.
Maybe she picked up on my doubtful, hesitant energy, and got unnerved.
Maybe the lack of communication created this unspoken tension - it sure did for me.
Maybe I read too much into it.

One thing is certain: I'm never looking her way again - attraction or not.

Interesting approach, if it were me I was have just talked to her. Either way, I respect that you faced that fear.

I had a similarly ambiguous encounter with a chick on the squat rack which I was waiting for.

I was waiting nearby, she came off, I asked if she was done, she said yes, but she left her over top there.

So, after I did my warmup, I took it back over to her, she thanked me, then when she left she waved goodbye and smiled.

I think I saw her again on a day that I was feeling tired and thus didn't approach. If I do see her again I will try to break the ice. Assuming I have the energy from my workout to talk to anyone.

But the reality is, she was probably just being friendly. A lot of these friendly cool chicks are already in relationships, that is just their personality.

These situations are so damn ambiguous that we are never likely to know if we wait for signals. However, approaching without signals is so nerve wracking, that we hardly ever do it.

It's a dilemma. I sometimes see as many hb's in the gym as I do in a nightclub, maybe more.

But approaching them is a minefield, even the guide on here doesn't give an efficient method. It gives a discreet method, but you can't really get your numbers up doing these subtle approaches. You can't approach on a regular basis.

A lot of situations are just too nerve wracking in the gym to approach. Everything has to line up just perfectly to make the move and even then, at the last second she could go to the bathroom or go back to her set.

 

[Will_V]

That's a great lesson. I don't generally do it when I am out with a goal to approach, but in social circles or environments where I am worried of the backlash of a failed cold approach I would sometimes fall into this habit of checking girls out. My idea has been to make sure if any is interested back, in order to not do an uncalibrated approach somewhere that I would have social repercussions.

But I guess in the end, just stating your interest and even inviting a girl out can't go any bad if you are cool about any result. I did it with a girl in a social dancing event last week in fact, and this date offer felt more stressful than most closes I've done cold approaching. She told me she had a boyfriend, but I feel I handled it fairly well, I introduced myself to her friend too and said we can dance again another time.

And most importantly I know that from my side that's totally fine. She is cute and I had fun dancing with her anyway, so nothing bad with enjoying this feminine energy more just in that context.

Yeah, especially in social circles and places you go regularly, I think the most important thing is to be social first and show intent second, paying plenty of attention to signals. You want to make it so that if it becomes clear that she isn't interested, you can fall back onto the social layer comfortably. The last thing you want is to do it in such a way that afterward you feel awkward around her or any of her friends.

I would suggest that in the case of the girl you mentioned at dancing, you might've closed a little hard going straight for the date, which is probably why you felt stressed, but you clearly handled her response very well and kept any awkwardness out.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

Yeah, especially in social circles and places you go regularly, I think the most important thing is to be social first and show intent second, paying plenty of attention to signals. You want to make it so that if it becomes clear that she isn't interested, you can fall back onto the social layer comfortably. The last thing you want is to do it in such a way that afterward you feel awkward around her or any of her friends.

I agree on that, it's just that for me personally if I know I like the woman the first time we meet and don't make a move then, I feel weird, like I am hiding myself, and start overthinking about how to make a move the next times, which makes it worse. This is for girls that I see and feel damn I'd date her looks wise, if she is just cute I don't care much.

I suppose it's useful to learn how to navigate social circles better to attract the hottest girls in a more indirect way, have never been particularly good at it, I've had girls show me signs of interest but rarely the ones I wanted the most.

Maybe it's because of exactly what I described, that when I know I like her and don't express it I will pay attention to everything that's happening with her, having in mind how to make it work and probably she just senses it, and it makes me look even worse for not making a move. But it's not like I can simply be a friendly guy and let it grow either, it will be incongruent with what I feel.

And I truly believe there is a way to ask her out right away after the first social circle meeting. The same way you notice someone on the street and you don't mind after interacting a bit to ask to get to know them better because you just feel a vibe, and if they decline and you happen to see them again all is good.

At least for me it's more about the freedom of expressing what I desire when I desire it, and if she says no I'm fine we can be chill no problem, I'm gonna go approach other girls like her anyway, I simply don't want to have these what ifs and maybes in my head. And I have really noticed that in myself, that if with a girl in a circle for one reason or another it doesn't work out, I can just write her off as a sexual prospect in my mind and be totally at peace with hanging out as friends.

I would suggest that in the case of the girl you mentioned at dancing, you might've closed a little hard going straight for the date, which is probably why you felt stressed, but you clearly handled her response very well and kept any awkwardness out.

In this one we danced one full song, then she told me how fun it was and even asked me to have a video of us together so she can improve. I teased her a bit on this, telling her I want half the money when she gets famous, then the music stopped and the party was over, we exchanged some info about what we do etc, so I asked her if she is free in general and that we could go for a drink.

I mean maybe it was hard, that said we don't take any classes together, it's a dancing evening I don't even go every week, so who knows when I would meet her again, I thought well why not. There was some slight awkwardness after it, but yeah I tried to smooth it out as much as possible in the moment. And her friend who was there and probably heard all of it was looking at me pretty interested when I talked to her. Wasn't sure what to make of it in fact, maybe she liked me, but I was thinking that if she liked me and saw me ask her friend out, she would get disinterested. Or it could be that I felt more attainable due to that.

I didn't try to go for a close to confirm this though. I felt it would have been too playerish in this environment with the other friend that just rejected me in front of us.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

In this one we danced one full song, then she told me how fun it was and even asked me to have a video of us together so she can improve. I teased her a bit on this, telling her I want half the money when she gets famous, then the music stopped and the party was over, we exchanged some info about what we do etc, so I asked her if she is free in general and that we could go for a drink.

I mean maybe it was hard, that said we don't take any classes together, it's a dancing evening I don't even go every week, so who knows when I would meet her again, I thought well why not. There was some slight awkwardness after it, but yeah I tried to smooth it out as much as possible in the moment.

Lol just found this girl that said she had a boyfriend on bumble with a bio: "I'm ready for some fun adventurous dates ", and saying she is looking for fun, casual dates and intimacy, without commitment.

Can't say it doesn't hurt a bit, a girl that is all about let's have fun and not commit, to tell me she had a boyfriend when I asked her out. I mean I could have playfully teased her I guess, but she gave the boyfriend as a serious objection. Makes me feel I must have been extremely unattractive to her.