FR++ NYE Report

[Spot]

Hi all, I haven't posted much on the forums and I'm fairly new to all this. The following report isn’t the result of a rigorous application of the principles learned on this site, but I did try to use some of the things I’ve read in a few of the articles on here.

Anyway, I met up with this girl that I had hung out with once previously at an industry party (independent contractors so we don't actually work together, but in the same field) where we had an awesome time on the dance floor. Wasn’t able to close the deal that night because of logistics but every indication afterwards was that she really wanted to see me again. We ended up making plans for New Year’s Eve.

On to the New Year’s Eve date . . . we went skiing first, which ended up being a lot of fun since the conditions were great for a beginner/intermediate (her) and the conversation flowed fairly easily and naturally. Honestly, I was a little worried about keeping the conversation going because we had an hour and a half drive each way to and from the mountain but it went really well.

After skiing we freshened up at the hotel and then hit the town. Dinner was amazing (she was showing me around her “home” town) and we had good kino going on. I should mention that the kino was good more because she was very forward and skilled at it than any amazing skills I have at it. Still, I pulled it off well and it felt more natural than I thought it would be. We were feeding each other different bites of our food and whatnot. Anyway, we hit another restaurant after because we had really small plates at the first place and I noticed this other girl staring at me at the bar. It turns out she used to go to church with me so I introduced her to my date as such and my date seized on that opportunity to say that she hoped our night would end in “sin.”

Next, we hit a dance club and had a great time cutting the rug . . . one thing though that was interesting was she also found time to dance with another girl that was there. It was pretty funny, but the other girl’s boyfriend/companion came up to me while my date was dancing with her and asked me if we swing. I just said that I personally had never done it but I didn’t know about my date.

So, the next part of “showing me the town” that my date wanted to do was go to a strip club. Anyway, we ended up sitting around the upstairs stage and let me tell you, my date likes strippers . . . A LOT. At this point she offered to buy me a lap dance from any girl I wanted; I seized this opportunity to get really close to her face, almost kissing but not quite to keep the tension, and told her that I bet they give pretty good lap dances there but that I was only really interested in one particular girl at the moment, and that I was looking at her.

Next thing you know we’re heading back to the hotel room, and once we’re there I was thinking of a good time to make a move. During the middle of us brushing our teeth we get into a little tooth-brushing battle, up in each other’s faces and she eventually squirts all the water in her mouth all over me. At that point I grabbed her and twirled her around, saying, “Feisty, are we? I have a New Year’s resolution, and that’s to be more bold going after certain things I want.” I then pushed her down on the bed and we started going at it pretty good; no clothes off at this point though. I then went for the kiss, and she says, “I can’t kiss you.” Well, I pressed a little further in trying to get the kiss and she finally said she couldn’t go any further because she’s completely into girls. She wanted to spoon for a little while after that, though, which we did before I was like, “Well, typically what we’re doing comes after a kiss.” And that’s pretty much the report.

I have to admit, I’m a little fucked up over this . . . I haven’t told anyone but I feel like I just need some sort of insight into this. I mean, I know she’s definitely into girls because of what I saw her doing at the strip club, but the fact that we got as far as we did led me to believe she was at least bisexual rather than lesbian. My ego can take it if she just wasn’t into me. I mean, there was at least some sexual interest there on her part, since I don’t think that little tooth-brushing battle was just supposed to be a little childish game.

Also, I’m just at the start of beginning to date again so I know I have to get over one-itis, but I’m still disappointed in how this turned out because I really liked this girl.

Anyway, comments and opinions are welcome.

 

[ray_zorse]

Re: NYE Report

Yeah dude, I feel your pain, well the first thing to remember is never believe anything they say. Your instincts are definitely correct on this one, it wasn't a platonic date. So either you fucked up somehow (but it appears the only time this could have happened was after the toothbrush battle, i.e. before or during your escalation, although I could be reading things wrong) or it was a test. I guess it was a test (and, telling her you were not proactive in getting what you want before, was a FU and an invitation to test you, save this kind of honesty for AFTER sex). So it's basically your standard LMR / failed escalation scenario. Frustrating, but there are lots more girls out there. Next time be a lot smoother, it sounds like you were too direct in persisting for the kiss (did you get into a logical discussion about it? If so that's another FU) when you could have backed off, built more comfort, rinsed and repeated. Also in response to the test you caved to her frame when you could have laughed, said "haha heard that one before" or say, thrust your chest out and flashed your tits at her in a joking manner, or tickled her, or basically any non-serious response that shows you are completely unfazed and not taken in by her bullshit. Finally you rewarded her resistance by spooning her when you could've done a takeaway "oh.. okay, in that case you may as well leave now" and start putting your clothes on, check your email or anything that removes attention from her.
Ray

 

[Spot]

Re: NYE Report

Yeah dude, I feel your pain, well the first thing to remember is never believe anything they say. Your instincts are definitely correct on this one, it wasn't a platonic date. So either you fucked up somehow (but it appears the only time this could have happened was after the toothbrush battle, i.e. before or during your escalation, although I could be reading things wrong) or it was a test. I guess it was a test (and, telling her you were not proactive in getting what you want before, was a FU and an invitation to test you, save this kind of honesty for AFTER sex). So it's basically your standard LMR / failed escalation scenario. Frustrating, but there are lots more girls out there. Next time be a lot smoother, it sounds like you were too direct in persisting for the kiss (did you get into a logical discussion about it? If so that's another FU) when you could have backed off, built more comfort, rinsed and repeated. Also in response to the test you caved to her frame when you could have laughed, said "haha heard that one before" or say, thrust your chest out and flashed your tits at her in a joking manner, or tickled her, or basically any non-serious response that shows you are completely unfazed and not taken in by her bullshit. Finally you rewarded her resistance by spooning her when you could've done a takeaway "oh.. okay, in that case you may as well leave now" and start putting your clothes on, check your email or anything that removes attention from her.
Ray

Thanks for the response Ray. Some of this was hard to read, but I definitely think there's some merit to what you're saying. I just thought that all the games would be over by the time we got to bed. Is the freaking line between success and failure really that fucking razor-thin, even when you've escalated to where you're in bed and she's comfortable with it, at least initially? I mean, I had her in bed and then there's a complete 180. I did think I challenged her frame a little when after a little while (3-5 minutes, maybe) of spooning I said, "Typically, what we're doing comes after a kiss," basically pointing out the absurdity of what we were doing. I guess that wasn't enough, though and I should've challenged her frame more aggressively. I should point out, though, that after that statement we didn't continue spooning but went to separate beds, so it wasn't like we were spooning all night.

The other thing, though, is what could possibly be the reason for the test at that point? Isn't it kind of fucked up to throw these tests out there once you've actually escalated things to the bedroom? And it's not like I was shy in the bedroom, either. I went after it. I guess I just haven't had to deal with resistance in the bedroom before since the last girl I actually successfully bedded was completely satisfied, so much so that we went at it for 3 hours straight and she climaxed at least 3 times, but that was like 10 months ago. I got no roadblocks in that situation and figured once I got to that stage with another girl, I would be able to replicate that.

Also, although I probably know what the answer will be, is there any way that I can successfully reengage with this girl? I do still really like her, but should I reach out to her or should I wait for her to contact me, if at all? I can move on, and I've been working on talking with some other girls this week, but I've been off a little because of this one girl.

 

[ray_zorse]

Re: NYE Report

Some of this was hard to read, but I definitely think there's some merit to what you're saying.

I would put it a bit stronger than that. This exact same thing happened to me the first time I pulled a girl to home using GC techniques. And has happened to me a million times since then. And basically the same thing gets reported on the boards by other guys many times a month. So we're on pretty solid ground here.

I just thought that all the games would be over by the time we got to bed. Is the freaking line between success and failure really that fucking razor-thin, even when you've escalated to where you're in bed and she's comfortable with it, at least initially?

Yes it is. Absolutely. That's why you need a shitload of practice, and a solid process, so you know how to handle almost everything that can possibly happen.

I mean, I had her in bed and then there's a complete 180.

LMR is very common. There are many factors at play here. Like anti-slut (or reputation) defense (might be impacted by whether her friends hooked up that night, whether anyone knows you're together, etc), her comfort level, the connection you've built, your perceived value and/or attainability, how horny she is (how long since she had sex)... these are conscious processes on her part, and in her excitement all these things will be flitting through her mind. But also, the more attractive and feminine she is, the more she'll want to test you, an unconscious process. You asked about tests so I will discuss this more a bit further down.

I did think I challenged her frame a little when after a little while (3-5 minutes, maybe) of spooning I said, "Typically, what we're doing comes after a kiss," basically pointing out the absurdity of what we were doing. I guess that wasn't enough, though and I should've challenged her frame more aggressively.

There's your problem right there. Challenging the frame = confirming the frame. Instead, you have to DISMISS the frame or reframe it somehow. Furthermore, as I said, a logical discussion with her about why she should have sex with you = a turnoff / not persuasive, she makes an EMOTIONAL not a logical decision.

The other thing, though, is what could possibly be the reason for the test at that point? Isn't it kind of fucked up to throw these tests out there once you've actually escalated things to the bedroom?

I highly recommend you read Franco Seduction (not the Franco from these boards) "Manual of Seduction". Also check out my post here for an example of a test. I could write more about this but it's dinner time so I will leave it there. Basically it's an evolutionary thing because of the high cost to a woman of making a reproductive mistake. Anyway, read the MoS on this.

And it's not like I was shy in the bedroom, either. I went after it.

In that case the problem was probably not lack of persistence, but the MANNER of persistence. A really good technique = "wash, rinse, repeat"... if she doesn't like your doing something, back off a little (BUT DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE HER RESISTANCE or verbally address it), and then do it again later, or come at it differently (like you try to kiss her and she moves away... you say "so anyway you were saying blahblahblah"... then a bit later you try to nibble her ear... etc).

Anyway, I think you did fantastically well here. It's a wonderful reference point and you learned a lot, if you can consistently get to here you'll be doing great.

Ray

 

[lao che]

Re: NYE Report

LESBIANS AREN'T REAL.

everything rayzorse said here is spot on.


sounds like a great date though and a great time.

IMO the problem started with you brushing your teeth together.it's almost like a covert contract ... so we're gonna get ready for bed and wash our face and brush our teeth and then get in bed and start to cuddle and kiss and ..
it's too ... proper.

you should have had her against the wall in the elevator up to the room, and then again in the room as soon as the door closed.

then when she told you she couldn't kiss you because she's a lesbian, you just tell her "cool" and pull her clothes off. "we don't need to kiss". or, "you like to eat pussy? me too!" and proceed

or even earlier, she wants to buy you a dance (also a test) "fuck yeah! you choose!" let her choose a dancer for you, show you are open and comfortable about sexuality.

tests can seem confusing. try to view it as an opportunity to showcase your wit/dominance/intelligence/savvy/notgivingafuckedness

but all of these things require reference points, comfort zones to be expanded and experience.

it stings like hell man, to go so far and fall at the final hurdle. we've all been through it. you're in good hands.

how comes you had a hotel room together?

and, one more time. LESBIANS ARE NOT REAL.

 

[lao che]

Re: NYE Report

as for the question of whether or not this is salvageable ... i would give it a firm maybe. but i think it would be beyond your skill level at the moment.

i can think of one or two ways in which i might go about it, but for you i suggest to back of completely for the time being - but not in a butthurt way, if she contacts you you can still banter and chat. but don't contact her first.

and remember you did a lot right, here. so pat yourself on the back. keep us posted, sir

 

[Spot]

Re: NYE Report

as for the question of whether or not this is salvageable ... i would give it a firm maybe. but i think it would be beyond your skill level at the moment.

i can think of one or two ways in which i might go about it, but for you i suggest to back of completely for the time being - but not in a butthurt way, if she contacts you you can still banter and chat. but don't contact her first.

and remember you did a lot right, here. so pat yourself on the back. keep us posted, sir

Yeah, I definitely think I could've made my move earlier, but the tooth-brushing thing I thought was decent. After all, I did grab her and push her down on the bed. Definitely could use some brush-up, but considering everything I think it's a decent start.

Anyway, I am actually really interested in whether this is salvageable or not. I'm definitely up for going out and meeting other women, but I'm particularly interested in this gal at the moment. I agree that I shouldn't contact her first . . . I mean, she's the one that left me hanging so the ball's in her court. She did say that she still wanted to hang out, though.

The thing is, though, if she contacts me, how should I handle it? I read one of Chase's articles that said to not indulge her desire to be friends because it's basically just wasting your time. That's why I'm wondering, if she sends me a friendly text or something like that, if I should just say something like, "Hey, glad you reached out. Unfortunately, I'm not really interested in the friend zone right now . . . if you change your mind, you know where to find me." Or something to that effect.

I'm wondering what your one or two ways you might go about it that you mentioned would be . . . care to share?

 

[ray_zorse]

Re: NYE Report

No it's not salvageable at this point. Having disqualified yourself as a lover, you will have to invest quite hard to get yourself a boyfriend slot even if that's still possible. And the relationship terms will be unfavourable, so it's not worthwhile.

Your best shot, as always with failed escalation / missed escalation window, is preselection, like inviting her to a party where you know some sexy girls will be all over you, but honestly if you have that then you don't need this biyatch.

Your next best shot is simply the passage of time. In a similar scenario I bumped into her on a tram 9mth later and just continued to treat her exactly the same as before, to my surprise I got a text later "it was nice seeing you, Ray. would you like to hang out sometime?" ... so I took her to dinner, however failed to pull home for the reasons I outlined above in first paragraph, and decided I was not willing to invest further.

Another thing you are overlooking is she's basically lied to you and disrespected you (or else wasted your time by meeting you on false pretences). You need to value yourself more and command respect, not be thinking "she's a great girl, how can I get her, how can I prove to her I'm worth a second chance".

As to your proposed text, NO NO NO. Never verbalize that shit, feel your way and keep her guessing! If you don't want to see her just say you're busy. If you do, I suggest to briefly build some comfort and then escalate hard and fast (like exchange some news/updates by text then invite her to your home to cook or watch a film... or drink a coffee with her, chat and then take her for a walk or a drive to somewhere private). This forces her to reveal her true intentions towards you and screens her out if they're not sexual. If you get a LJBF either ignore (if it's a test) or dismiss her and cut contact (if serious).

Good advice from lao che as always. Hey bro congrats on ranking up too and good work over the NYE holiday

Ray

 

[Spot]

Re: NYE Report

No it's not salvageable at this point. Having disqualified yourself as a lover, you will have to invest quite hard to get yourself a boyfriend slot even if that's still possible. And the relationship terms will be unfavourable, so it's not worthwhile.

Your best shot, as always with failed escalation / missed escalation window, is preselection, like inviting her to a party where you know some sexy girls will be all over you, but honestly if you have that then you don't need this biyatch.

Your next best shot is simply the passage of time. In a similar scenario I bumped into her on a tram 9mth later and just continued to treat her exactly the same as before, to my surprise I got a text later "it was nice seeing you, Ray. would you like to hang out sometime?" ... so I took her to dinner, however failed to pull home for the reasons I outlined above in first paragraph, and decided I was not willing to invest further.

Another thing you are overlooking is she's basically lied to you and disrespected you (or else wasted your time by meeting you on false pretences). You need to value yourself more and command respect, not be thinking "she's a great girl, how can I get her, how can I prove to her I'm worth a second chance".

As to your proposed text, NO NO NO. Never verbalize that shit, feel your way and keep her guessing! If you don't want to see her just say you're busy. If you do, I suggest to briefly build some comfort and then escalate hard and fast (like exchange some news/updates by text then invite her to your home to cook or watch a film... or drink a coffee with her, chat and then take her for a walk or a drive to somewhere private). This forces her to reveal her true intentions towards you and screens her out if they're not sexual. If you get a LJBF either ignore (if it's a test) or dismiss her and cut contact (if serious).

Good advice from lao che as always. Hey bro congrats on ranking up too and good work over the NYE holiday

Ray

All good advice, Ray . . . though there weren't any overt, literal lies on her part, there was definitely some false pretense involved, and I do actually feel disrespected. Probably wishful thinking, but I'm just wondering how to handle an apology if she offers one. The situation seems ripe for some sort of apology or explanation coming from her end, just because of how it turned out. In any case, though, I don't intend to contact her first.

Also, though I don't know you guys, I can almost see yours and lao che's disapproving faces when I talk about how I want to salvage this situation. Don't be too disappointed in me, though, I've got another date with a different girl set up for tomorrow night, so I'm not completely wallowing in self pity, haha.

 

[ray_zorse]

Re: NYE Report

If she apologizes (which she won't) it will be a lie or some manipulative bullshit which you should ignore, just brush it off and continue to do what you were doing (which was building comfort, isolating and escalating). Never get into a discussion of what you or she did before or whatnot. Remember her emotions change all the time and the past gets rewritten to suit whatever emotion she is currently feeling. Your best shot is simply to make that emotion a positive one. Let the past remain fluid. Discussing it will simply fix a particular view of it into her mind, usually an unfavourable one which then cannot be changed. Having said all that -- if she contacts you for any reason BE WARM AND NICE to reward this investment. And no I don't disapprove of your banging this chick if she wants it
Ray

 

[lao che]

Re: NYE Report

Not at all, spot. We're all here to learn from and help each other.

I'm interested in this, though. I wonder how how you ended up staying in the same room and how awkward breakfast was the next morning.
Reminds me of more than one incident from my past.

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for an apology or explanation. Or believe it if it comes. In her mind she did nothing wrong. In fact she probably feels let down by you

My plan, were I to try and salvage this, would be to involve another bi-girl (pretty much any girl, really, if you play your cards right) and then seed a meeting up at my place, for them to get to know each other. Sounds outlandish but you would be surprised.

Or, something similar to ray, wait for contact, calibrate, escalate hard and make her put up or shut up

@ray, thanks! I noticed I was promoted, but dunno the reason. Didn't seem linked to no. Of posts.
Happy new year!

 

[Spot]

Re: NYE Report

If she apologizes (which she won't) it will be a lie or some manipulative bullshit which you should ignore, just brush it off and continue to do what you were doing (which was building comfort, isolating and escalating). Never get into a discussion of what you or she did before or whatnot. Remember her emotions change all the time and the past gets rewritten to suit whatever emotion she is currently feeling. Your best shot is simply to make that emotion a positive one. Let the past remain fluid. Discussing it will simply fix a particular view of it into her mind, usually an unfavourable one which then cannot be changed. Having said all that -- if she contacts you for any reason BE WARM AND NICE to reward this investment. And no I don't disapprove of your banging this chick if she wants it
Ray

Okay, I appreciate the advice, but this is a little confusing. You say to be warm and nice to reward her investment, but how do I avoid being her "emotional dildo," the guy friend she turns to for emotional support or whatever?

Anyway, when I said you and lao che were probably disapproving of me was more in regards to the fact that I was pining after this one particular girl, rather than getting back out there and meeting other girls. That's why I brought up the other girl that I have a date lined up with tomorrow night.

Not at all, spot. We're all here to learn from and help each other.

I'm interested in this, though. I wonder how how you ended up staying in the same room and how awkward breakfast was the next morning.
Reminds me of more than one incident from my past.

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for an apology or explanation. Or believe it if it comes. In her mind she did nothing wrong. In fact she probably feels let down by you

My plan, were I to try and salvage this, would be to involve another bi-girl (pretty much any girl, really, if you play your cards right) and then seed a meeting up at my place, for them to get to know each other. Sounds outlandish but you would be surprised.

Or, something similar to ray, wait for contact, calibrate, escalate hard and make her put up or shut up

@ray, thanks! I noticed I was promoted, but dunno the reason. Didn't seem linked to no. Of posts.
Happy new year!

I was visiting a city that she was familiar with and I had never been to. I basically said we should go skiing and that she should show me around the town afterwards. Originally she had it lined up so we were going to stay at one of her friends' places in the city. However, when I picked her up to go skiing one of the first things she told me was that she couldn't swing it with the other friend and that she had just gone ahead and booked a hotel room.

I just don't understand how she could believe she did nothing wrong. I mean, no girl is obligated to have sex with you just because you go out on a date, but she sure was sending out obvious signals that sex was definitely going to happen. And then a complete 180 once we get to the bedroom. Yes, I probably could've recalibrated and pushed further when she gave me the lesbian line, looking on it in retrospect, but I think I took some pretty good initiative; e.g. pushing her down onto the bed, etc. She obviously knew I wanted to go further, there was no mistaking that. If she thinks she did nothing wrong or feels let down by me, I could say the exact same thing about her.

Anyway, gotta focus on this new girl for tomorrow night . . . logistics may be tricky, but I'm working on it.

 

[lao che]

Ignore this post. Look at the next one

 

[lao che]

I just don't understand how she could believe she did nothing wrong. I mean, no girl is obligated to have sex with you just because you go out on a date, but she sure was sending out obvious signals that sex was definitely going to happen. And then a complete 180 once we get to the bedroom.

Chick logic

No point trying to make sense out of nonsense.

But actually it does make sense once your start to see things from a female polarity

In her mind ''I gave him all these signals, put myself out there and he wasn't man enough to follow through. All I did was tell him I like girls and pooof game over
What a pussy ! ''
Or some other variation of such reasoning


I'll answer your question to ray, if you don't mind

You can be warm and nice without being a tampon.
Just never get into any of those types of conversation, eg about her day or her feelings or work or any of that boring shit.

And don't act butthurt. You'll know if you are -

Her: hi! How have you been

You: fine

This is what not to do ,-)


Chase wrote a post about when a girl reconnects after a long period of time. May or may not be relevant.
Basic premise is that you are vague (not evasive, just brief) with your own info, while getting her to invest in the chat.


Looking forward to your next report, sir!

Onward and upward

 

[Spot]

UPDATE: The girl in this report reached out to me this morning. I was warm and nice as advised, rewarding her investment. The following text convo occurred, and I'll just call her Jane for anonymity's sake:

Jane: You try that jelly yet? [she had given me a small jar of homemade jelly during the date - a Christmas gift]

Me: It's my go to snack when I need a break from my net projects... sadly I may run out soon. What's up, Jane?

Jane: Haha its pretty addicting stuff, 100 jars next year for sure. Good, I'm glad you like it. Making good progress on those nets? Just getting back into the swing of school here. Then on to looking for another crew guy.

Me: Dibs on one of those jars haha. Yeah the nets are going good, and I hired a crew guy this week too, so all in all its been a pretty productive week. You going with a greenhorn or an experienced guy?

Jane: Well, you'll just have to bring the empty jar back next I see you so I can fill it up again and send you back with a couple. Good to hear you had a productive week. It's probably going to take that first theory exam before the motivation kicks in here. Well, I'd like someone with experience, but I'd even moreso like someone I can retain 4-5 years. It will probably be someone green. Not sure if it would be better to hire someone young for the retention piece or if I should try for someone with more experience...

Me: We're going green here, I've found you only really need one truly badass picker and the other guys are supplemental. Well good luck on the search, and on the home stretch for school.

Jane: Yeah thanks, we'll see what comes up this year. Hopefully its something I can hold onto.

I tried to kind of play it cool in this interaction, and most of it felt pretty neutral. I'm not really sure on her last text, though. I may be reading into things too much, but it seems like a test to me. I'm not really sure what she's getting at with it, though, or how I should respond, if it even is a test. Comments/advice would be appreciated.

 

[lao che]

having access to a resource like GC is really a huge advantage to a young man. you get to pick the brains of people more experienced than yourself, and use that knowledge to expedite your own progress, rather than floundering around not knowing what you're doing and wondering when you'll finally catch a break.
having said that, you're still gonna make mistakes as you are learning and they are gonna hurt (and one never stops learning). but, as you are a member of this forum, you'll make fewer mistakes, realize those mistakes sooner, and get to where you want to be going in months rather than years.

I tried to kind of play it cool in this interaction, and most of it felt pretty neutral.

there's a difference between playing it cool and pretending it never happened. and neutral is not often a good thing. you want to be polarising.

what you've done here is exactly what you shouldn't have done. you got sucked into an everyday conversation about boring-ish stuff that nobody really cares about.

one thing i learned many years ago was that you don't have to answer a girl's questions logically, or at all if you don't want to.
i used to answer a girl's text like a list of responses to what she'd asked. like a good boy LOL
it was a shock to me when i heard that - "really? i can just ignore what she said? she asked me a question, though. i don't have to answer?"

she opened you again, that means you have another opportunity to display your personality


her: You try that jelly yet?

you: mmm jellyyy . spot hungryyyyy

you: it's far too good. i demand that you have more delivered to my residences immediately

you: no my mum said i'm not allowed to eat any more sugar

... and so on. whatever suits your character. and even if you choose to give a straight forward answer, you can still take control of the conversation.

you: yeah it's almost finished, thanks! how can i get my hands on some more ....?

you can see i'm just making this up off the top of my head, but you get the gist.


now, there are several moments in Jane's texts when she is giving you an in, whether consciously or not. eg -

"Well, you'll just have to bring the empty jar back next I see you so I can fill it up again and send you back with a couple .."

you can jump on that. it's a pretty clear invitation, i would say


couple more things,

*i saw another board member mention how he likes to never send more than five words in a text to a girl. i don't personally do this because i think of a lot of funny stuff to say, but it's an interesting exercise to see how you can have her invest more and more while keeping your own effort to a minimum, eg

Her: try that jelly yet?

You: Jane! How's 2016 treating you?


*any time a girl is talking to you, she wants you. that's a mindset that you have to try and adopt. she's texting a lot. she wants you to escalate. maybe it's not always true. but it's as true as you want it to be, and it's not gonna hurt your chances.

 

[Spot]

having access to a resource like GC is really a huge advantage to a young man. you get to pick the brains of people more experienced than yourself, and use that knowledge to expedite your own progress, rather than floundering around not knowing what you're doing and wondering when you'll finally catch a break.
having said that, you're still gonna make mistakes as you are learning and they are gonna hurt (and one never stops learning). but, as you are a member of this forum, you'll make fewer mistakes, realize those mistakes sooner, and get to where you want to be going in months rather than years.

I tried to kind of play it cool in this interaction, and most of it felt pretty neutral.

there's a difference between playing it cool and pretending it never happened. and neutral is not often a good thing. you want to be polarising.

what you've done here is exactly what you shouldn't have done. you got sucked into an everyday conversation about boring-ish stuff that nobody really cares about.

one thing i learned many years ago was that you don't have to answer a girl's questions logically, or at all if you don't want to.
i used to answer a girl's text like a list of responses to what she'd asked. like a good boy LOL
it was a shock to me when i heard that - "really? i can just ignore what she said? she asked me a question, though. i don't have to answer?"

she opened you again, that means you have another opportunity to display your personality


her: You try that jelly yet?

you: mmm jellyyy . spot hungryyyyy

you: it's far too good. i demand that you have more delivered to my residences immediately

you: no my mum said i'm not allowed to eat any more sugar

... and so on. whatever suits your character. and even if you choose to give a straight forward answer, you can still take control of the conversation.

you: yeah it's almost finished, thanks! how can i get my hands on some more ....?

you can see i'm just making this up off the top of my head, but you get the gist.


now, there are several moments in Jane's texts when she is giving you an in, whether consciously or not. eg -

"Well, you'll just have to bring the empty jar back next I see you so I can fill it up again and send you back with a couple .."

you can jump on that. it's a pretty clear invitation, i would say


couple more things,

*i saw another board member mention how he likes to never send more than five words in a text to a girl. i don't personally do this because i think of a lot of funny stuff to say, but it's an interesting exercise to see how you can have her invest more and more while keeping your own effort to a minimum, eg

Her: try that jelly yet?

You: Jane! How's 2016 treating you?


*any time a girl is talking to you, she wants you. that's a mindset that you have to try and adopt. she's texting a lot. she wants you to escalate. maybe it's not always true. but it's as true as you want it to be, and it's not gonna hurt your chances.

Good points on that, but I feel I should clarify some things. I actually live about 6 hours away from her . . . we met about halfway for the date. Also, and she knows this, I'm several states away at work for the next several weeks, if not a month. If it was feasible, I would've jumped on her giving me the invite to refill the jar and set something up, but I think scheduling stuff several weeks out is way too far in advance. I did, however, say "Dibs on one of the jars" so it's going to happen at some point.

Also, I wouldn't quite classify what we talked about as boring stuff that nobody cares about . . . the profession we're both involved in as business owners is very unique and is a passion we both hold, and who you hire is actually a crucial part of it.

That's not to say that I didn't make mistakes . . . I just don't think that it's as glaring as you say. I actually think several of your examples of texts would've been better than what I sent. I guess I just fell asleep at the wheel a little bit because I didn't really know what the point of the conversation was supposed to be, even though I vaguely knew I wanted to build rapport but not become Endless Boring Conversations Guy. I think this could've got to Endless Boring Conversations Guy territory, but I cut it short and wished her a good weekend. Obviously when I'm back from work and have more time I would push for a meetup; that conversation would at least have a solid point, or goal, to it.

Another thing I'm a little unsure of is how much to invest back, as in when to contact her again, if at all. In other words, should I wait until she contacts me again, or should I contact her again at some point? I've read some of Chase's stuff on here that says, when you have extended absences (like during my current work period) you should drop off the map entirely. However, if I don't contact her at all don't I risk that she'll fall into auto-rejection? Anyway, all for now.

 

[lao che]

spot,

clearly the text conversation was relevant on a professional level. but that's not why we're here.

Do you want to fuck her or do you want to be her surrogate gay best friend?

Plenty of guys are afraid to make a girl even the slightest bit uncomfortable. Ironically enough, if she feels completely comfortable, she won’t feel attraction.

Great job! You’ve successfully cut your balls off! Welcome to her harem of eunuch orbiters!

taken from here -

http://misterinfinite.com/2013/02/23/relate-from-man-to-woman/

read it. read it again. bookmark it. copy and paste it and save it on your phone. and read it again.



it was already clear from the report that this is a long-game situation. the rules don't change just because she's in another city/state. (although personally for long distance girls i prefer email over text, but the fundamentals remain the same).

put krauserpua.com on your reading list. you'll find many examples of text conversations which you can steal or remold to fit you (if you don't read krauser i would suggest you read it from the earliest post onwards, that's a lot of content but you'll definitely learn a lot and have your eyes opened)


i would say it's a big ask to pull this one out of the weeds, but think of it as a side project while you concentrate on things a little closer to home.

as for the question of whether or not to contact, the simple answer, but not what you want to hear, is - if you want to
i'd probably wait see if she contacts me over the next week or two but if i happened to think about her for some reason, or had something i wanted to tell her, i wouldn't prevent myself from doing that.


anyway, you now have other fish to fry. i'm hoping to hear something about your recent date,

 

[Spot]

Been outta commission for the last week . . . busy at work. Thanks lao che for the post. As for the date last Saturday night, I had to cancel because I was terribly sick. Not the best impression to make on a girl, but it was a bad bug.

Anyway, Jane and I got in touch again a couple days ago and I was determined to not let the conversation go stale, and so I took some risks (what do I have to lose in this situation, right?). She sent me some pictures but I couldn't load them with the slow wi-fi connection at my work (which I'm at 24/7 by the way) and so I messaged her that it's hit or miss with loading pics at my work and asked if she won the powerball or something. She said no but that she's holding out for the next jackpot. I then told her that I thought a lucky number for her might be the number 3. Well, of course she was curious why I thought that, but I didn't give in right away, evading the question for a bit to build anticipation/get more investment. Finally she really wanted to know and I said that it was pretty obvious she was gunning for something that involved 3 people on New Year's Eve. At first she said that she really didn't see that coming, that she had thought I was going to say that I thought she did 3 sets of reps at the gym or something like that, and that hanging out with her one night had turned me into a perv. I was like, "3 sets of reps at the gym? So random. And hey, it's not really an insane theory. That other couple at the dance club asked if we were swingers." She responded by saying that it wasn't an insane theory, nor a bad one, and that just like she can rationalize going to a strip club, she could do the same for a threesome; she also added that we all know who the real perv is, meaning herself. I then told her that I had never actually explicitly mentioned a threesome, just an activity involving three people, and playfully said that she really is a perv. We kept the banter going for a little while until I said I had to leave her to her pervy thoughts as I had work in the morning. All in all she seemed to receive this text exchange well. Any thoughts?