On being High value vs High quality

[Master K. Stone]

Hey fellas,

So while I've made tremendous gains in my seduction journey thanks to the wonderful insights of the authors and reading the experiences of others, I feel like I'm not screwing the girls I want to screw.

This brings up my next question, I'm aiming to go really big, be with the absolute best women our there. That is build my fundamentals until it becomes easy. Now I've always relied on what Chase has said, you can land any girl you want as long as your fundamentals are through the roof. From what I've gathered through reading articels and the ebook fundamentals add value. (Nevermind attainibility for now).

So I have to ask what exactly does being high value have to do with high quality? Are the two the same thing and, if not what is the difference?

Can you please give examples of a super high value guy vs super high quality guy.

I have a feeling that quality only comes into play if you want to date girls. If you guys could please eli5 that would be great.

K.

PS. Those of you thinking that game is also important I know I'm working on that but fundamentals seem to do 80% of the work.

2nd PS. I remember an article mentioning lawyers have excellent verbal game. I was watching Antony Saramucci speaking to the press last week and noticing how smooth he was. Is this the kind of real life verbal game Chase means? What do you guys think and how can I learn to speak/be like that?

Thanks boys!

 

[Master K. Stone]

Thanks for all the feedback gents, you really are the greatest.

 

[Smurf]

I think the reason that you're not getting much feedback is because your question is extremely nuanced - or it's just hard to understand.

I'm not really one to get really deep into the subtle differences in quality and value but I can try and differentiate the two.

In my anectodal definitions, I'd define a high-quality man as one that basically has - in the eyes of a woman - a really good chance of being a good father to her children and provides traits of someone that would allow her next generation to succeed.

A high-value guy doesn't necessarily need to have high genetic potential, but just have value that others see as a rare commodity. Value can come in different ways, and doesn't have to mean sexual-value, but since we are on a seduction board, let's say that this is sexual/social market value.

Now here's where my brain starts to hurt. High-value and High-quality, aren't they both just a means to the same end? If a guy is high-quality, girls will be interested in him and he'll likely get laid. If a guy is high-value, as long as he presents that value he would get laid too. The differences here are probably too subtle for my pea-brain to see the real difference here. The only way I can see there being a difference is if high-value is value in general or value in regards to women.

If we're talking generally high-value, the issue with that is it isn't pertaining to girls directly. You can be an amazing computer engineer, but that might not get you very far with girls (unless you do some social engineering to make that work for you).

My question to YOU is, what exactly do you want to gain from these definitions? Are you trying to find a weak spot of yours or just further defining things in your own head?

Jake.

 

[foggy]

I was thinking about this in the grocery store parking lot. Jake D. has the right sorta answer.

The quality of something depends on what it's made out of. The value of something depends on it's scarcity.

A man who is high quality is a man who has amazing fundamentals. If you put a high quality man in a city where there is 1000s of other high quality men, he will still be high quality, but he won't be high value. However if this high quality man with amazing fundamentals is the only high quality man with amazing fundamentals on earth, then he's going to be high value, because of the scarcity aspect. You can't find him anywhere else.

High quality guy = amazing fundamentals
High value guy = amazing fundamentals in a sexual marketplace with no other high quality guys

 

[Master K. Stone]

Jake

Your understanding is greater than mine at this point on this subject.

The reason I ask is because while it has become simple for me to get with girls I'm still not getting to date the girls I want to (I.e the hottest/most beautiful) available to me.

What I mean is when I run my process with these "9&10s" it only gets up to a certain point, like a date or make out but never sex. At first I thought it was an attainability think, I became warm, still no dice.

Then I look at the kind of guys they date. Don't mean to sound condescending but their fundamentals are okay not spectacular and mine are stronger.

I was even thinking of short cutting my process and doing a meet to lay (day game) but I just don't have the logistics yet.

So I believe they date these guys because they are higher quality than me even though I have stronger fundamentals.

Backstory.

I get what you're saying but isn't value subjective?

What I value in a girl might be different from what you value. Hence your high value girl will be different from my high value girl.

But despite this we can both agree when we see a high quality girl. Like an actress or someone of note. I think there is something more to it than just value when it comes to quality, that is what I'm trying to figure out.

K.

 

[Drck]

IMO you guys are reading too much into it, keep it simple...

What is value? Value is only relative, it can change over time depending on circumstances. If there are 100 available girls who are looking for LTR boyfriends in one city, and only 10 guys are available, all these guys will have fairly high value. Say that all guys are fairly equal to each other, on the scale of 1 to 10 they are all say 6-7. Girls will be mostly fighting for them, the ratio is 10 girls to 1 guy. There is scarcity of guys and abundance of women. Supply of guys is low and demand for guys is high. The girls will fighting for these guys, it will be very difficult for a girl to get one of these guys because of such a high competition. A girl that has a guy will do everything she can to keep him. She would never reject him because she knows she won't be able to find another one...

How about couple buses come from adjacent villages one morning, and drop off 490 guys at once. They are also 6-7 on the same scale. Now situation will change that very moment, the value of the original 10 guys will drop tremendously. There is now total of 500 guys available and only 100 girls. The ratio is now 1 girl to 5 guys. Supply of guys is now high, and demand dropped. The girls will stop fighting for these guys. It will be easy for girls to get any of these guys, now they have no competition, each can chose from 5 guys. A girl can easily reject any guy now and find another the very same night...

BUT, what if we have a city in which there are 450 guys that are 5/10, and 50 guys that are 9/10 scale? Situation also changes - 100 girls will go for those 50 guys that are 9/10, they will not care much about the rest 450 guys... In this city there is abundance of guys, but scarcity of 9/10 guys...

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What is quality? Well, maybe we can see qualities divided into individual components - quality of sex, quality of social value and social circle, quality of financial support, quality of being a good provider and so forth. Combination of those qualities then create overall Value of that particular person...

Say a girl is looking for LTR and find a guy who has abilities to keep LTR functional and happy, he has higher LTR quality than guy who doesn't care about LTR at all. Maybe he is more reliable, can provide higher income, he can protect her physically better because he is stronger, he has higher empathy and understanding, he has great communication skills, he has larger social circle and so forth.

What if she is looking for sexy and experienced guy who can get her off, and she find one that is more sexy and more experienced than 9 other guys? He has higher quality on her sexual scale than the other guys...

Sum of different qualities usually contributes to overall value because a guy who is sexy, experienced, and interested in LTR should have high overall value...

So ...


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So you say, I will become the sexiest guy around, experienced, and also will have LTR qualities. This way every girl will want me.

You may be right, girls will really want you, but be very careful though. Everything is only relative, it also depends on what is she looking for because what is she looking for has higher value to her. Couple examples:

* Guy A: High sexy value, high qualities for LTR, great empathy, communication skills and so forth. He is a provider who is willing to stay around long time. Say he has overall value 90% (combination of many different qualities)
* Guy B: High sexy value, low qualities for LTR. Not much empathy, communication sucks, he's rather an asshole. He's not a provider, he won't stay around. His overall value is say 50% (mainly sex and experience qualities)
* Guy C: Low sexy value but high provider value, great empathy, communication skills and so forth. Overall value 50% (mainly provider qualities)


Which of these 3 guys will she chose? It all depends on what is she looking for...

1. If she is looking for LTR, Guy A should win, however, she may give him quite a hard time because she will also want to prove her LTR value to him...

2. If she is looking for quick fun and no strings attached sex, Guy B will win. She won't give him much of hard time. She knows he won't stick around, and she is not looking for LTR... She is looking for quick sex and he can provide it...

3. What if she is looking for LTR and also quick fun, but doesn't think her own value is high enough, e.g. has high competition from other girls that also want that Guy A? Of course she would want Guy A with 90% value, but if she has low confidence and low self esteem, or if she thinks her overall value in comparison to Guy A is 60%, she may actually prefer Guy C with 50% value... She will dump (rather auto-reject) Guy A and she will go for Guy C...

Why is that? Because she knows she can have much more power over Guy C than over Guy A. She knows that Guy A can easily leave her any time and find another woman. She has virtually no power over him, he is just too good, she knows she could easily ended up with broken heart... But she knows that Guy C will not leave her so easily, if he does he will have hard time to find another woman... She has lots of power over him, she can actually dump him fairly easily if she has to and not feel not too many regrets...

Note that in the mean time, while she is in LTR with Guy C, she can also have easily Guys B on the side... She can actually have couple Guys B plus one Guy C with overall value way over 100%... And that is still more than having one Guy A... In this case, believe it or not, Guy A is actually in disadvantage... He has to work very hard to achieve that high level, yet he is being rejected a lot despite having high value... He may get really quality pussies, but the numbers will be limited as he will have to stay in LTR...

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* Guy A is blue pill Alpha male - high achievements, most girls want him, but he gets only limited number of pussy as society would crucify him (See Trump, Clinton or others, it is unacceptable for them to freely sleep around with women despite the fact they reached the highest level possible)
* Guy B is red pill Alpha male, number of pussy is only limited by his desire, no one dares to fuck with him as he just doesn't give a damn...
* Guy C is average Joe out there, not too many pussies wants him, but many pussies will eventually settle for him...
* ... Guy D is a combination of the above, it's really a Guy C who wants to be Guy A but somehow understands that imitating Guy B brings the most results...

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In reality it is really all just relative, it's never such a clear cut. It all depends on value, quality or qualities, what she is looking for, how she evaluate herself to comparison to him, how much time she invested into that particular guy, how does he fit into her family, and bunch of other factors...

... We can see that Guy A has it all, he's all sexy and he has lots of good qualities that women want. Most women want him. BUT - he also works his ass off because these take long time to develop, and he is being rejected as girls fall into auto-rejection... Also, why would Guy A work so hard and so long to get only one particular girl for LTR? He would have to be insane...

And we can clearly see that Guy B has quite advantages over other guys, at least if we assume that he is not looking for LTR. He is an asshole, he doesn't care. He won't stick around. He has no interest in great conversations. He doesn't care much about her and her life. He doesn't really have to do much to become the quality guy - yet he gets laid a lot, he gets lots of pussy for fairly minimal effort, at least to comparison to Guy A... Girls want him yet they can't have him - which means he is in really high demand... He gets laid with more women and for significantly less effort than Guy A...

 

[Hector Papi Castillo]

High-value is field dependent.

You are a high value male at a dance studio if you're the instructor or a great dancer. A bartender or VIP host at a club.

But high quality is something more general. A high quality guy is attractive in general. Well muscled. Etc.

Or you could define it with class. High-class is pretty set in stone. Aristocrats. Something like that.

Hector