On the dangers of direct game ("You look cute" VS "interesting")

[lux7]

I like the direct thing of throwing it all out there without subterfuges.

But at the same time I feel there are 2 risks:


1. It can make you look "lower value" compared to her

This can happen because you've already stated you like her physically.

If she does also like you physically, than great, that can be a perfect way to start as it cuts to the chase and shows resolve.

But if she doesn't like you yet, that can slot you right away as the chaser and, hence, lower value.



2. It can make you look superficial and average

If you open direct by saying things like "I think you look cute... " or "I think you have the most amazing walk and.." etc. etc, since you're just introducing yourself you're clearly, so far at least, only interested physically.

But cute girls are used to people saying that to her all the times!
And they're often used to hear that in a bad and disrespectful way (catcalls, drunk pushy people etc. etc.).
And they might associate you with those kind of people/situations.

And if she's not attracted to you physically and you don't have time for a deeper connection, that kind of "direct" opening will slot you into the average guy category who's not really interested in her as a person.
And even if you've got time, if she starts thinking of you as superficial you start off on the wrong foot and she might not want to keep interacting with you much longer.


REAL LIFE EXAMPLE:
I thought about this one the other day.
As I was walking home in the morning I chatted up a girl whom when I asked what was she doing that night replied "I'm a prostitute" (she went quite direct as well , she was actually a stripper who, as most of them do, also get laid with customers at times).
When just a couple of minutes later our paths diverged and I told her I wanted meet again, she said she liked me, but why should she meet me again and give me her phone number? That's what hundreds of guys ask her every week! And of course she was right, how had I set myself apart? My first sentence was just a small scale replay of what she had the whole night: slobbering guys hollering at her.
If instead of being that direct when I approached her I had said something like "I really like your style because bla bla bla" or went more indirect, then I might have had a higher chance because, yes, in that case I would set myself apart from the opening already.
This is an extreme case, of course, she just had her fill of guys wanting her, but it can also happen with other cute girls who aren't dancers/prostitutes..

 

[Richard]

Lucifer,

Interesting points you raise, and I shall rebuttal.

This can happen because you've already stated you like her physically.

If she does also like you physically, than great, that can be a perfect way to start as it cuts to the chase and shows resolve.

But if she doesn't like you yet, that can slot you right away as the chaser and, hence, lower value

This is the reason Chase and everyone else stresses having solid fundamentals first, and pre-opening a woman and the other multitude of things. Generally, this happens in how you deliver the compliment, the "How You Say It" aspect. When you deliver a compliment genuinely women receive it very well, unless they are complete bitches, in which case you shouldn't waste your time on them.

Also, I've found that guys who say "it lowers your value," are the same guys who are expecting something out of the chick, and are usually outcome dependent. In this case though, you're focusing to much attention on the opening, opposed to the closing.

If you open direct by saying things like "I think you look cute... " or "I think you have the most amazing walk and.." etc. etc, since you're just introducing yourself you're clearly, so far at least, only interested physically.

But cute girls are used to people saying that to her all the times!
And they're often used to hear that in a bad and disrespectful way (catcalls, drunk pushy people etc. etc.).
And they might associate you with those kind of people/situations.

And if she's not attracted to you physically and you don't have time for a deeper connection, that kind of "direct" opening will slot you into the average guy category who's not really interested in her as a person.
And even if you've got time, if she starts thinking of you as superficial you start off on the wrong foot and she might not want to keep interacting with you much longer.

Again, the solution here is how you give the compliment. If it sounds superficial its usually because it is, and girls will pick you apart for it.

Also, the cutest girls generally receive the least amount of compliments, 9s and 10s generally have no guys approaching them, because every guy thinks she is taken already, and doesn't even want to bother with it.

7s and 8s though feel like they're entitled to a compliment because they are more approachable for the average jo, and have heard lots and lots of compliments that boost their ego.

Still, what girl doesn't like to be told she's cute, and in reality, how many guys apart from this site actually approach women, and succeed?

Again, when you open direct, it doesn't have to be physical, you're just taking it as such. You're expressing interest in her, you can't compliment a girl on who she is if you don't know her, so you have to work up to that.

-Rich

 

[lux7]

Lucifer,

Interesting points you raise, and I shall rebuttal.

This is the reason Chase and everyone else stresses having solid fundamentals first, and pre-opening a woman and the other multitude of things. Generally, this happens in how you deliver the compliment, the "How You Say It" aspect. When you deliver a compliment genuinely women receive it very well, unless they are complete bitches, in which case you shouldn't waste your time on them.

Also, I've found that guys who say "it lowers your value," are the same guys who are expecting something out of the chick, and are usually outcome dependent. In this case though, you're focusing to much attention on the opening, opposed to the closing.

Let's say that my example was extreme, but I still feel that it did lower my value, at least in that case and the short time frame didn't allow me to chance course of action.

Again, the solution here is how you give the compliment. If it sounds superficial its usually because it is, and girls will pick you apart for it.

Also, the cutest girls generally receive the least amount of compliments, 9s and 10s generally have no guys approaching them, because every guy thinks she is taken already, and doesn't even want to bother with it.

7s and 8s though feel like they're entitled to a compliment because they are more approachable for the average jo, and have heard lots and lots of compliments that boost their ego.

Still, what girl doesn't like to be told she's cute, and in reality, how many guys apart from this site actually approach women, and succeed?

Again, when you open direct, it doesn't have to be physical, you're just taking it as such. You're expressing interest in her, you can't compliment a girl on who she is if you don't know her, so you have to work up to that.

-Rich

You know, this thing of 9s and 10s receiving less compliments, I'm not sure how really true it is, I tend to think it's a PUA urban legend.

Also on the girls being talked to only by PUAs, I actually think that most people approaching this underground world are the ones that will rarely get very good and they arrived here because they had some issues and, on top of that, were already used to using Internet a lot (generalization here, of course this isn't true for everyone).
The people who are already good and "natural" -not the PUAs who sell themselves as such- will hardly use their time flipping through PUAs publications because they don't need so.


Anyway, I guess we went a bit off topic , this was one thing that interests me as I feel it happens to me several times, and also that many girls in short time situations (like close to public transport, for example, or walking by), take the direct approach as compliment that pleases them and feel happy enough with that.

I'll come back to this, I've just moved city and country, still have to unpack

 

[Richard]

In actuality, this issue rings true.

Friends of mine have been 9s and 10s and they've explained their side of the story.

Its a combination of what Labrie said in his article about the stalker factor, as well as that which you call the PUA legend

The most beautiful women are approached less, I didn't say complimented less ( can also be true), but they are approached significantly less! And those average guys who do approach, if they come off wrong, are auto-rejected pretty quickly.

And girls aren't only approached by PUA either, its just that, guys who learn the art of pick up are much more likely to be the ones picking up women, while guys who don't regularly talk to women generally never are able to pick them up either.

 

[lux7]

In actuality, this issue rings true.

Friends of mine have been 9s and 10s and they've explained their side of the story.

Its a combination of what Labrie said in his article about the stalker factor, as well as that which you call the PUA legend

The most beautiful women are approached less, I didn't say complimented less ( can also be true), but they are approached significantly less! And those average guys who do approach, if they come off wrong, are auto-rejected pretty quickly.

And girls aren't only approached by PUA either, its just that, guys who learn the art of pick up are much more likely to be the ones picking up women, while guys who don't regularly talk to women generally never are able to pick them up either.

Hmmm, I'll come back to that 10 thing being approached less .

What I mean with the PUA/non PUA is that I think that most guys good with girls, and I mean the vast majority, they have never read anything PUA related and maybe never even heard of that (also PUA is mostly an English-speaking thing I believe).

And, also, most PUA readers never really get as good as "naturals".

Of course, talking in general here, many exceptions out there

 

[Richard]

Yup, this one's pretty hard for me to rebuttal against from a personal stand point because I am an exception.

I was a natural with women, I just had to learn to be comfortable and combat my approach anxiety, everything after that was smooth sailing. But, I had to read PUA to combat my anxiety, and learn to be comfortable... so... I'm not a good typical example.

Also, guys who are naturally good with women may not read PU material, but they use a lot of PU techniques on instinct and they know the techniques work, they just didn't have to read how to use them...

Naturals with women are effectively PUA, just not constructed pick up artists.

 

[lux7]

Yup, this one's pretty hard for me to rebuttal against from a personal stand point because I am an exception.

I was a natural with women, I just had to learn to be comfortable and combat my approach anxiety, everything after that was smooth sailing. But, I had to read PUA to combat my anxiety, and learn to be comfortable... so... I'm not a good typical example.

Also, guys who are naturally good with women may not read PU material, but they use a lot of PU techniques on instinct and they know the techniques work, they just didn't have to read how to use them...

Naturals with women are effectively PUA, just not constructed pick up artists.

You can put it that way , the way I was using "PUA" was in the sense of the person who reads PUA material/forums.

Yes, definitely true, I would put it more the other way around though, PU material puts on paper -or more like in bytes- what naturals do instinctively.

A bit off topic, but I don't think you needed to read PUA stuff, your natural basis and willingness was the key and most "self improvement" material would been good enough. And most likely you'd have breached that wall anyway, weather or not reading/studying, though reading certainly sped up your process (and likely also set off a vicious/virtuous circle that made you much more willing to improve... Albeit at the expense of learning something else ).