Orlando and Las Vegas "Shootings". No Real Evidence. Fake As Hell.

[Cacc]

Gc forum members are socially attuned individuals. Go look at the interviews of the "victims" and you'll see really weird behavior. You'll see the face of liars and actors.

Notice how there aren't any actual bodies shown. 58 people died in Las Vegas 500 injured and theres tons of videos out there not one dead or injured person shown on video.

Notice how the "victims" and police often get their stories mixed up.

The government is pushing their agendas. Just open your eyes and you'll see the truth. You're being lied to.

 

[Drck]

What are you sayin, that it is all staged? That it didn’t happen? That’s ridiculous ...

This guy has probably became left wing radical. Nobody knows motive yet, lol. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if it comes up that he is really just a left wing numbnut, another Trump hater, who in passive-aggressive way wanted to show people disagreement with republicans; who wanted to prove that guns are bad and should be banned. In his mind he was probably hero, savior, who proves to the bad right-wingers how guns are bad and should be banned, because there is simply just no way that even background checks could be efficient...

 

[lostnumber]

Gc forum members are socially attuned individuals. Go look at the interviews of the "victims" and you'll see really weird behavior. You'll see the face of liars and actors.

Notice how there aren't any actual bodies shown. 58 people died in Las Vegas 500 injured and theres tons of videos out there not one dead or injured person shown on video.

Notice how the "victims" and police often get their stories mixed up.

The government is pushing their agendas. Just open your eyes and you'll see the truth. You're being lied to.

Dude, shut the fuck up. You have no idea what you're talking about.

I know people that were AT the Mandalay Bay when the shooting happened and saw/heard everything. Thank god they didn't choose that day to go to a concert

Go pedal your conspiracy bullshit somewhere else

 

[Hue]

Well, yea, there was evidence.

But even if there wasn't...

The government is pushing their agendas. Just open your eyes and you'll see the truth. You're being lied to.

...lack of evidence of something is not sufficient to claim the opposite as true. That's a logical fallacy, bro.

 

[Cacc]

I would have expected more than ruffled feathers.

22,000 people in the concert. Show me a video of dead, or injured people.

Hueman,

Do you realize the hypocrisy in your statement? Show me the evidence.


Thousands of people with phones and there's no video out there of proof.

That Hotel has a shit load of cameras yet there is no video of him taking all his guns up to his room.


Here's a video of a woman "crying" for the death of her son. This was in the gay nightclub incident. https://youtu.be/uiBxr94XINg

She's crying but no tears. There's no emotion there just acting. It was later found out that that woman actually made several youtube videos talking about how she wanted to be an actor and that the only thing she had in her life was her cat. If u want ill put it up.


Instead of emotions. Prove me wrong with facts and evidence.

 

[Cacc]

Take a look at the body language in this interview of a victim.

https://youtu.be/psxEvONFvyM

Notice the constant down breaking eye contact. Notice that this person isn't really speaking with emotion and the tone of her voice sounds very off. Shes trying to convey emotion and pain but her face and voice betray her.

If you know a little bit about body language then you know that when people are accessing their memories they will look off to the side. Downward breaking of eye contact signals a not a very good liar and someone uncomfortable.

https://youtu.be/D3bj3PH7PGg

In this video a guy casually talks about a man dying in his arms, his friend being shot 3 times in the chest, and casually saying hell survive. lmao.

If GC members can't look at these people and sense fakery and bullshit. then idk.


What's the reason for the people that stage this? Their agendas on gun laws. imo.

 

[Hue]

Okay I’ll explain myself more-so.

I myself used to love reading conspiracy theories. I thought they were interesting.


Here’s some evidence:

http://fox8.com/2017/10/02/multiple-vic ... las-vegas/

Video of people freaking out with audio of the gunshots included.

http://fox8.com/2017/10/02/man-shot-at- ... ving-wife/

Man who died saving his wife’s life.

http://abc7.com/photos-mass-shooting-in ... gallery-27

Picture gallery with a photo of people taking cover, terrified at the concert, police responding to the issue.

http://abc7.com/la-nurse-critically-wou ... g/2488338/

Woman in critically injured state from the shooting that may take years to fully recover.

http://abc7.com/las-vegas-police-respon ... y/2477628/

Police accounts and many details of the scene.

There’s also gofundme’s for victims. One of the victim’s happens to be the girlfriend of one of my acquaintances.


When people take the “it must be conspiracy” stand, it creates a cop-out of having an actual argument because it’s essentially pseudoscience. It’s an unfalsifiable argument.

It is no longer skepticism of “show me the evidence”. It is an alternative explanation that creates an entirely different hypothesis, which to be supported and taken seriously, demands evidence of the alternative explanation.

You can show conspiracy theorists evidence that, yes, this happened, or this really seems to suggest this, and the typical answer you receive back is “well that’s just a set up, well that’s just fake dead bodies, well those are just government-hired actors, oh well if this, then maybe this too, and maybe this too, which probably means this then, [insert excuse with no actual evidence here]”. A continuous retreat to an unfalsifiable argument that's not very parsimonious. I can't come up with the audio of the behind closed doors conversation of these "actors", and neither can you.

"Here's your evidence"
"See! That's exactly what the conspirators would have to fake to fool people!"

Confirmation bias.

She's crying but no tears. There's no emotion there just acting. It was later found out that that woman actually made several youtube videos talking about how she wanted to be an actor and that the only thing she had in her life was her cat. If u want ill put it up.

Okay, maybe she's a little nutty and got on camera for attention. I don't have evidence for that though - so I'm not going to take a stand and say with confidence that, "yes, she's an actor, just look at how she only has her cat, she must need attention!".

If you know a little bit about body language then you know that when people are accessing their memories they will look off to the side. Downward breaking of eye contact signals a not a very good liar and someone uncomfortable.

This might be true some of the time. Some of the time people are also nervous, emotional, and not good on camera. It is not possible for you or me to prove whether this woman was lying or if she was nervous/emotional, etc. Even if she was hooked up to a lie detector, those are sometimes fallible. What is possible is for someone to look at her eye-witness testimony, and look at the videos of the scene. They're congruent. It fits.

Show me evidence of her or anybody's collusion with the government, and I'll take it more seriously. Then, that claim might be congruent.

In this video a guy casually talks about a man dying in his arms, his friend being shot 3 times in the chest, and casually saying hell survive. lmao.

"He's not responding how I would expect someone to, therefore he's an actor and lying about what happened".



When you make the claim, this person is lying to push the government's agenda, that demands more evidence than speculation of what someone's body language means. Understanding body language based on your expectations and experience with what specific body languages indicate.


Similar to how GC teaches to look at results, not reactions, the result of this happening is many people having died, many people in the hosptial, gofundme projects for victims, etc.

What results do you have that support your claim?


I see nothing wrong with being skeptical, until the skepticism grows into an alternative theory that lacks evidence.

 

[RezznT]

Got some pretty crazy conspiracy theories going on in here.

No Real Evidence. Fake As Hell.

Except every single major news outlet in the country says it's real. Just because major news outlets don't want to show gore on TV/in newspapers doesn't mean it's not real. Most people don't want to have to look at that, the only people who do are crackpot conspiracy theorists like yourself.

You'll see the face of liars and actors.

This is the same type of stuff people said over at PUAHate for years.

The government is pushing their agendas. Just open your eyes and you'll see the truth. You're being lied to.

You realize you're talking about a unified pro gun government, right? Every branch is controlled by Republicans, who don't want to talk about what happened in Vegas.

Remember Occam's Razor: The simplest explanation is usually the most accurate.

So, either: 1. It's real or 2. It's a massive national conspiracy, that even right wing news outlets are reporting on, in order to push an anti right wing agenda.

This argument is actually so dumb it shouldn't even need to be explained.

This guy has probably became left wing radical. Nobody knows motive yet, lol. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if it comes up that he is really just a left wing numbnut, another Trump hater, who in passive-aggressive way wanted to show people disagreement with republicans; who wanted to prove that guns are bad and should be banned. In his mind he was probably hero, savior, who proves to the bad right-wingers how guns are bad and should be banned, because there is simply just no way that even background checks could be efficient...

Also a pretty wild and baseless assumption.

 

[lostnumber]

Cacc, when you are in the aftermath of some horrific disaster or just lost someone you care about I'd love to take a video of you talking about it and then microanalyze all your facial tics. I'm sure you'd nail every single box on the "appropriately acting traumatized according to cacc" checklist

Here is my rebuttal:
Go put on your tinfoil hat, close the blinds down low so the black helicoptors cant see you, and fuck yourself. I know someone who was THERE when this happened, thats my evidence.

Do what you want with your own life, but who the fuck do you think you are to be the arbiter of someone else's tragedy? My family friend is safe and unharmed, which we are all thankful for. The same isn't true for hundreds of other people, and the friends and family of those victims deserve better than some crackpot mouthing off about how the nightmare they are going through isn't real.

 

[Cacc]

Hueman,

I am skeptical. I don't have all the evidence. It's a gut feeling. From the Orlando massacre and this one, everything just looks really damn weird. The mixed stories are weird, the people are acting weird, and the lack of actual evidence is weird.

Nothing you showed is actual concrete evidence. I'm not saying it never happened, im saying it's staged. And I'm not a conspiracy theorist. After what happened at the gay nightclub, I started doing lots of research and I came to the conclusion that it was staged.

When you make the claim, this person is lying to push the government's agenda, that demands more evidence than speculation of what someone's body language means. Understanding body language based on your expectations and experience with what specific body languages indicate.

Dude, body language doesn't work that way... Unless you are a socio/psychopath, body language always speaks truth, words lie. And in those videos above, their facial expressions and voice tones simply betray what they are truly saying.


If I can see a video or picture of 1 of the 50+ dead bodies or the actual injury of at least 1 of the 500+ injured, I'll stand corrected. Till then, I'm skeptical.

Except every single major news outlet in the country says it's real. Just because major news outlets don't want to show gore on TV/in newspapers doesn't mean it's not real. Most people don't want to have to look at that, the only people who do are crackpot conspiracy theorists like yourself.

Not a solid argument. Republican news outlets not saying anything about it or calling it fake would only cause major turmoil and make them really unpopular. Also, we don't know how deep this goes.



lostnumber,

Cacc, when you are in the aftermath of some horrific disaster or just lost someone you care about I'd love to take a video of you talking about it and then microanalyze all your facial tics. I'm sure you'd nail every single box on the "appropriately acting traumatized according to cacc" checklist

Here is my rebuttal:
Go put on your tinfoil hat, close the blinds down low so the black helicoptors cant see you, and fuck yourself. I know someone who was THERE when this happened, thats my evidence.

Do what you want with your own life, but who the fuck do you think you are to be the arbiter of someone else's tragedy? My family friend is safe and unharmed, which we are all thankful for. The same isn't true for hundreds of other people, and the friends and family of those victims deserve better than some crackpot mouthing off about how the nightmare they are going through isn't real.

Again, your feathers are clearly ruffled. You have not added any kind of value to the topic and are simply throwing ad hominems. If you can't control your emotions and participate in a civil discussion, why bother?



Just to be clear. I'm not saying this didn't actually happen. I'm saying it was staged and no one actually died or was injured. This is my current position.

 

[Drck]

Cacc, not sure what you are smoking man but stop, you are just making ass of yourself. There are plenty of videos on YouTube, there are interviews with people who new victims, I’m not sure where you taking your story but I’ve seen dead bodies (on videos) too.

Pictures of victims were released, there must be thousands of people who knew them personally...

If somebody shoots at you and you hear machine gun, I don’t think you’d be calm and taking cool pictures around.

There are better conspiracy theories:

* 911, not only twins but other buildings around collapsed, so far nobody bothered to explain why (as far as I’m aware)
* 911, Pentagon: this building must have hundreds of cameras around, maneuvering such big plane that hit it would take quite good skills - yet there are no pictures or videos
* Aliens, UFO or structures the moon. Quite interesting
* Flat Earth - sounds like scam for dummies but check it out, the logic is quite convincing

... but this???

————-

Another thing:

Cacc: “Gc forum members are socially attuned individuals. Go look at the interviews of the "victims" and you'll see really weird behavior. You'll see the face of liars and actors.”

>>>>This is totally incorrect conclusion. Most guys are on GC because they have some social problems and they are not socially tuned. They miss lots of social cues, that’s why they are having problems with girls at first place...

 

[Hue]

Cacc said,

"Instead of emotions. Prove me wrong with facts and evidence."

"I don't have all the evidence. It's a gut feeling. From the Orlando massacre and this one, everything just looks really damn weird. The mixed stories are weird, the people are acting weird, and the lack of actual evidence is weird."

You proposed I give you facts and evidence, which I provided. Yet you don't feel the need to present your evidence.




Side note:

Gut feelings and emotions coincide.

Skepticism (while not equating to) blends with paranoia, which is often derived from fear, an emotion. This is NOT always the case, but food for thought.

Instinct is not ALWAYS correct, but is often a good arrow to follow in real-time social interactions.

Cacc said,

"I am skeptical."

"And I'm not a conspiracy theorist."

I encourage you to be skeptical and think critically. Many people do not nowadays, and accept information as truth as it comes.

However, the moment you take skepticism and conclude the results of a happening to be "fake", "staged", etc. you are creating a hypothesis (theorizing) some sort of colluded and conspiring effort (a conspiracy) from people to posture the results of the happening. ie. acting as a conspiracy theorist.

 

[Cacc]

Hueman,

your tactics are low level stuff. You're trying to win the argument by defeating the man rather than the argument.

Gut feelings and emotions coincide.

Skepticism (while not equating to) blends with paranoia, which is often derived from fear, an emotion. This is NOT always the case, but food for thought.

Your comments about me perhaps being emotional and paranoiac do nothing to advance the discussion. This isn't a social circle, people aren't around for you to impress with your tactics.

Also, notice the use of,

Instinct is not ALWAYS correct, but is often a good arrow to follow in real-time social interactions.

Agreeing with the opposition is a good way to soften them up, lower their guards, so you can come in and deal the killing blow. Good tactic. But I can see through it.




The only way you get to win this game is to prove to me that people actually died, and people were actually injured in this incident.

You proposed I give you facts and evidence, which I provided. Yet you don't feel the need to present your evidence.

You have failed to do this. None of your videos show concrete evidence. No one dying or dead. No one visibly injured. A gun can shoot blanks, people running away is not evidence. Show me the bodies.


I'm not going to answer every little tactic used to deviate from the actual argument thrown at me. Show me what actually matters. Anything other than concrete evidence means nothing. If you and Drck can provide this, I'll stand corrected. If not, then what was the point of posting on my thread?

 

[Cacc]

I stand corrected. https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=956_1507066205 - Viewer discretion advised.

 

[Hue]

Your comments about me perhaps being emotional and paranoiac do nothing to advance the discussion

My last post had no intention of attacking you.

I was drawing the idea that "gut-feelings" are not evidence, which is the only evidence you used to back your claim of the shootings being set up.

You also asked that we have this discussion without allowing emotions to interfere, and then back up your claim with your gut feelings, which is synonymous with using emotion as your evidence.




Two different claims, one happening

"The shooting was set up."

You use your gut feeling about the interviews as evidence for this claim, I point out your evidence is fallable because there are no facts behind them other than you saying "the interviews were weird and didn't seem genuine."



"The shooting was real."

I give accounts of police, photos of panic, dialogue from doctors, multiple sources of testimony, and a personal connection to the event (someone I know has a girlfriend who attended the concert, and she is in the hospital).


The one direct claim on you that I will make is this:

You seem to have a very high standard for evidence.


To my knowledge, there is no video or frames of pictures showing the shooter's gun emptying a clip with bullets landing into bodies, and blood coming out showing violent contact.

There are videos of gunfire mid-concert, the concert stopping, and panic and chaos following, and there are people with bullet wounds in the hospital.

I find that to be sufficient evidence for MY claim.


You do not produce sufficient evidence for YOUR claim.

Show me evidence of her or anybody's collusion to stage the shooting and I'll take it more seriously.


EDIT: Well there it is.

 

[Drck]

Seriously, check out the Flat Earth society. It basically comes down to “I never left Earth myself, thus all the pictures of Earth as a sphere are fake. All astronauts are fake, moon landing is fake, thousands of scientists are fake because all I see is Flat Earth and everything can be explained differently”. Which is actually a great logic and approach to any problem.

That is the same logic you are using. Is it bad? No, it is excellent approach, great skeptical thinking and logic, you’d be great scientist. But you also have to push it step further - e.g. design correct solution and/or test to that problem. I simply suggest to fly to Vegas and visit some hospitals, talk to doctors and nurses and see if they really had some injured patients with bullets in them, or even deaths. There still must be tens of injured in there and it is highly unlikely that every nurse or doctor you talk to would lie. I suggest to visit crime scene, there still must be some bullets or bullet holes left, possibly even blood.

This is fairly easy to prove (or disprove), unlike Flat Earth conspiracy you actually have very easy way to find out the truth... Flat Earth conspiracy is way more difficult to prove/disprove, it requires true scientific experiments...

 

[Cacc]

I never said it didn't happen, I said it was staged.

Which is why your evidence was not sufficient Hueman. I needed to see the dead bodies. Also, I based my argument on a lack of evidence, not just gut feeling.


My goal wasn't to persuade that it was a fake, but to inspire discussion and come to a conclusion I could 100% trust. I am very careful about what I believe in, even now I'm still thinking if I was somehow fooled.