LR-- Over to my house twice, but has refused escalation to sex both times. Not sure how to proceed!

[Beam]

I met this girl via daygame about a month ago. Tall, Mediterranean looking and super sexy. I had a date with her that evening since I was leaving for work the next day, and got her back to my house. Details are here in my journal entry from the 27th of Feb, but to summarize, we made out heavily on my couch and I sucked on her breasts, but she resisted when I escalated any further. I could tell she was enjoying herself a lot, she was smiling the whole time but I ended the night as I had to get up early.

After a week of silence I messaged her with the intent of meeting up as soon as I got back. We ended up messaging back and forth over the next two and a half weeks because when I got back after a week, I got sick and we still couldn't meet (although I did actually randomly run in to her on the street when I got back). She always responded enthusiastically within hours, even though it took me days to respond at some points.

We finally met again a couple of days ago at my house for cocktails. An hour in after putting on a movie we were making out heavily again. She rejected my first suggestion of going upstairs and we continued watching the movie - twenty minutes later after making out again quite animalistically I suggested it again whispering in her ear that I didn't want my housemate to hear (my housemates room is open onto the bottom living room with a void which is really annoying). She agreed.

When she got on my bed the first thing she said was "can we take it slow?". I agreed. We started making out passionately on my bed, , sucking on each others fingers etc. . But any time I reached for her pants she would refuse. About 20 minutes in she was on top of me rubbing her pussy against my body really aggressively when suddenly she let out a gasp before stopping and collapsing on the bed next to me. I don't know whether she had actually come or not, I couldn't tell because her pants were still on. Do you guys think she did?

We continued making out and kissing each others bodies for the next hour. When I pulled back she would come in and initiate again. Still, any attempts to escalate further she refused. At some point, I was kneeling on her body and she sat up, putting her head right in front of my underwear. She looked like she was going through turmoil looking at it - I thought she was going to pull my pants down and start giving me head, but then she collapsed back again and sighed.

At some point I told her to talk to me. She said there was nothing to say.

She would look at me nervously at points. I think she was wondering what I was thinking and if I was angry that she was refusing. I wasn't. I put her mind at ease by telling her it was ok. That I was enjoying this very much (I was) and that it wasn't all about having sex (which is true, I actually loved just making out with her because she was so sexy).

At some point she asked me what I was thinking. I told her that I was thinking about how much she turned me on and that I could barely control myself.

An hour in, lying down next to each other with our mouths resting against each others, she reached down over my underwear and started stroking it, but then stopped. We started aggressively making out again, this time I was growling and biting her lower jaw, pressing my body against hers. I finally took off my underwear and starting rubbing my dick against her. She was moaning and shuddering, but then told me that "this is not fair for the both of us" and it died down.

We lied down and talked for the next half and hour, with her lying on top of me asking most of the questions. Occasionally she would start kissing me and smiling.

After a while (it was 12:30am) I said I should probably get to bed, and she said sure. Before she left we made out passionately and she was moaning - I could tell she didn't want to stop but I told her "ok that's it! Should probably run now ". She thanked me for the night when she got home.

I'm not really sure how to proceed with this one. I find this girl super sexy so am going to keep going out with her, but have you guys dealt with girls like this before? Do you know what could be causing her to be so hesitant?

I don't know whether it's past trauma, if I have not made her comfortable enough or something else. I'm not sure what questions I should be asking her to get her to open up.

 

[Glow]

It sounds like you guys are young. What you describe is typical dry humping period for many which means kissing til youre so worn out of it, exploring the next steps lightly and sorta sensing all things that awake inside you. But without taking it further. its a goooood way into sexuality acknowledging certain sides of you and her awakening. and letting them do so slowly and naturally. Or maybe its where she is not you.

i would not force anything here but stay with the innocence of it as something very nice develops there and you/she gets connected with sexuality in a very nice way. Itll provide a very good foundation for her/you in being sexual. Maybe a new area for you that opens.

Also see what happens in you on a more detailed level with it vs just thinking what to do. You seem to be in a good place with this speed of things. and maybe its good for you too? Notice your own feelings and reactions in this.

My guess is shes mixed between the good things she feels and being uncertain on you, on boys on sex on actually doing it. And the best u can do for her is to really meet her need for slowness in it. connect w her, be warm and let her feel truly safe and no pressure at all. Just like you have. i would tell her i think its nice she does things at her pace to support her own feeling of security on her self. And that im with her. that i admire it. This way you acknowledge and and boost her confidence connectively.

funny side note - half the guys who get ED would benefit from this sorta approach. Something very essential to sexuality arises in this arena when you slow down and attune to what comes up.

 

[PalmaSailor]

I don’t know if you allowed the escalation to go too far. In a sense she is playing with you.

I have the feeling that you should have pulled away from the make out on the rejection for at least an hour and done something else

you allowed her to reject and remained “available”

next time she pushes back you could try saying “look I totally get it, there’s no way you should do something you don’t want to” and pull away completely. Go get a Netflix and sit her at the other end of the sofa. No touching.

just pull the intimacy. If she tries to move in for more intimacy then push it back “whoa girl, that’s only going to lead to one place and I’m not sure I’m ready”

you could be too available

 

[Will_V]

I gotta say that spending several hours on multiple occasions rubbing pants without her getting naked just ... sends the wrong message in my opinion. Tbh I couldn't do that without feeling frustrated and annoyed.

My estimation is that while she likes you, she can sense your lack of experience, feels a bit insecure, and isn't sure what to do about it. I sense that perhaps you are letting her lead things too much as well, and showing too much excitement which is giving her good feelings without requiring a lot of her investment.

I would persist in a more dominant and commanding way, interspersed with withdrawing every so often and playfully dismissing and teasing her a bit, as if I know she's messing around a bit but I don't blame her for it. It seems to me that you have not made her work very much for your attention in person, and she's happily enjoying how easy and fun it all is.

Btw my favorite way to beat LMR (and she does seem a bit shy and inexperienced) is having her lie face down and giving her a massage while taking the clothes off one by one. It's low-pressure, calming and gives her a way to get accustomed to my touch gradually without there being that immediacy of things. She can shut her eyes and I can talk to her, explore her, and ramp things up and down easily.

 

[Zoro]

A lot of guys reflect on a situation like this and think, "what am I doing wrong?"

Which is fine and good, but they often fail to be observant and aware of the woman involved. What is going on with her? Is she nervous because she's inexperienced? Is she shy and wants to feel comfortable opening up? Is she hesitant because she's been recently hurt? Is she reserved because she thinks you'll judge her?

These are the things you should do your best to be aware of, and from there you can figure out if you can offer what she needs. Is she unsure of what you want from her? Well you need to work on your expectation setting. Is she shy and nervous? You need to find out why and inspire some confidence in her.

This is good leading, both the lover and the leader know the needs of those he is leading.

A lot of guys only think, "How can I GET this from her." Often they don't even know this is the process going on in their head.

Instead, try asking "What does she need/want, and am I willing and able to give that to her?"

 

[Skills]

Couple of mistakes, first always, please text me when you get home to make sure you got home ok , that would have prevented that 2 week dissapearance...

first, you need plausible deniability to move her to the room, the roommate excuse was ok, but it was not really plausible deniability, in other word you accidentally happen to be in the room (thank the lord for my set up lol)... I used to save the HOUSE TOUR, prior to sex ending the tour in the bedroom...

when she said: "lets take is slow" , here you should have exaggerate agreeing with her, and say "of course nothing is going to happen today, my roomate is here and i don't feel comfortable" ---->something that take away in her mind the possibility of sex completely so she feel at ease without that stress.......

- i think she came, through the pants (you don't want to amp up sooo high to the point were she cums, then the escalation crashes)...

- a go to move by me for years was the massage, you give her a good massage with her clothes on cause she relaxes, and a new trick that i have been using, cause a lot girls are conscious of being completely naked and vulnerable is to get them under a light blanket that covers them up PRIOR, to taking the clothes off, i usually say joking "come into my house" then i put the blanket, and i make sure that if they take the clothes off is under that blanket.......

- the putting your dick in her face is not a good move, better is to take your dick out jerk off, and grab her hand and have her jerk you off...

 

[Beam]

Wow, thanks for all the great responses.

@Glow, your post in particular really resonated with me a lot. I wouldn't say we're that young. I'm 28 and she is 24. I am at a good place with the speed, despite having a lot of first date lays over the last couple of years, I have never felt truly that comfortable with it and have generally preferred waiting a bit more. It's just that of course as this site says the chances of seeing her again if you don't sleep with her on the first date diminish and so that's why I have been so focused on it. Of course as I get more and more experience I will be more comfortable with first date sex because I will be more confident in my ability to keep her around.

And funny you should mention that guys who get ED would benefit from this. Once of the recurring themes in my LRs is ED, and when making out with this girl for hours I was hard the entire time...

@PalmaSailor, interesting you mention the pulling away, that's called freeze out isn't it? I didn't do it to the extent of getting up to watch Netflix but I did actually try pulling away and just lying next to her not touching shortly after she refused to escalate, and then she would be the one to reinitiate kissing. But still refused to escalate.

@Will_V good points. I actually did get a little frustrated towards the end. Definitely not being too much of a challenge to her. Actually I did give her a back massage, but didn't take her pants of while doing this.

@J Wick Oh definitely, great points. I actually didn't ask this question in the context of "how can I get this from her", it was actually coming from a place of "have you guys dealt with a girl like this before?" to help me understand where she is coming from so I can find out what it is she needs.

@Skills Thanks for the input. I did actually tell her to text me the first time she went home and the silence was from me, not her. I didn't have the balls to put her hand on my dick, thought that was being too pushy. Hmm, the massaging seems to be a recurring theme here.

 

[Fuck This]

Maybe there is a culture difference here but I'd pull back. In your Mid 20's there are enough women that won't leave you with blue balls that I wouldn't bother with her.

The moment that she touched your unit it becomes an "All In" moment. I remember a particular moment like that where I asked at that point "So are we doing this or not?" and she reacted with a definite Positive reaction, and we consummated the deal...

I think if you talk with her again you need to tell her that you want her "Enthusiastic Consent" before you even invite her over. Physical intimacy is a cornerstone of adult relationships and you are willing to give her time but you don't want to start something you can't finish. It is frustrating and unfulfilling and you want an open and fulfilling relationship.

 

[Will_V]

Wow, thanks for all the great responses.

@Glow, your post in particular really resonated with me a lot. I wouldn't say we're that young. I'm 28 and she is 24. I am at a good place with the speed, despite having a lot of first date lays over the last couple of years, I have never felt truly that comfortable with it and have generally preferred waiting a bit more. It's just that of course as this site says the chances of seeing her again if you don't sleep with her on the first date diminish and so that's why I have been so focused on it. Of course as I get more and more experience I will be more comfortable with first date sex because I will be more confident in my ability to keep her around.

And funny you should mention that guys who get ED would benefit from this. Once of the recurring themes in my LRs is ED, and when making out with this girl for hours I was hard the entire time...

@PalmaSailor, interesting you mention the pulling away, that's called freeze out isn't it? I didn't do it to the extent of getting up to watch Netflix but I did actually try pulling away and just lying next to her not touching shortly after she refused to escalate, and then she would be the one to reinitiate kissing. But still refused to escalate.

@Will_V good points. I actually did get a little frustrated towards the end. Definitely not being too much of a challenge to her. Actually I did give her a back massage, but didn't take her pants of while doing this.

@J Wick Oh definitely, great points. I actually didn't ask this question in the context of "how can I get this from her", it was actually coming from a place of "have you guys dealt with a girl like this before?" to help me understand where she is coming from so I can find out what it is she needs.

@Skills Thanks for the input. I did actually tell her to text me the first time she went home and the silence was from me, not her. I didn't have the balls to put her hand on my dick, thought that was being too pushy. Hmm, the massaging seems to be a recurring theme here.

Just remember it's your adventure dude. Learn theory, but also listen to your gut and follow the truth wherever it leads, even if it breaks the 'rules' sometimes. There are times when self expression beats perfection, and takes you to a different kind of reward.

 

[Beam]

I find this girl adorable and super sexy so I'm not going to drop her. But will keep dating other girls of course. I don't think she is LTR material but I'm going to keep working with her. She's following my lead enthusiastically but I am conscious of what you said here @Will_V

It seems to me that you have not made her work very much for your attention in person, and she's happily enjoying how easy and fun it all is.

I definitely am not making it too difficult or challenging at the moment. Part of that is because she is just making it so easy for me but I will have to pay attention to it going forward.

 

[Sapphophire]

Do you know what could be causing her to be so hesitant?

It's an old, old game, and birth control is very new. Ages and ages of ancient wisdom in her say, slow, what's the rush, don't risk a baby until you absolutely can't hold back.

. its a goooood way into sexuality

i would not force anything here but stay with the innocence of it as something very nice develops there and you/she gets connected with sexuality in a very nice way. Itll provide a very good foundation for her/you in being sexual. Maybe a new area for you that opens.

Yesssss. Seventeen stars

 

[Chubadoo]

Was her top off during the bed making out session? Should've gone down on her breasts and moved lower to her pants and tried unzipping them, if she refused just be like "We're not gonna do anything, don't worry."

Then go higher to her chest/neck, while you unzip her pants, 1 step back 2 forward, push pull, reassure her again you're not fucking tonight, just take your clothes off so you're more comfortable etc. Then go down on her some more til she invites you in. This has worked for me in the past after a girl was solid on not taking her pants off, and I don't have much lay experience either.

 

[Yaxir]

Was her top off during the bed making out session? Should've gone down on her breasts and moved lower to her pants and tried unzipping them, if she refused just be like "We're not gonna do anything, don't worry."

Then go higher to her chest/neck, while you unzip her pants, 1 step back 2 forward, push pull, reassure her again you're not fucking tonight, just take your clothes off so you're more comfortable etc. Then go down on her some more til she invites you in. This has worked for me in the past after a girl was solid on not taking her pants off, and I don't have much lay experience either.

would love to have a talk with you someday about your game/lay experience(s)

beginner like me could use some tips from guys you !

 

[Beam]

Update on this. My plan was to take her on a third date to see a comedy show, to build more comfort, find out more intimate details about her and then not invite her home, instead inviting her to my house a few days later for drinks. She was enthusiastic about the show, we ended up going on Monday and grabbing drinks after. She did seem a little more distant and the kisses were more brief (she was the one ending them) on this date. She agreed to drinks on Thursday, but when Thursday came around she flaked because she was completing a job application. She didn't respond to my suggestion for drinks the next day and has been uncharacteristically slow with her responses to my texts (she used to always respond within hours, now she either doesn't respond or right now, it's been over 28 hours and she still hasn't responded to a question I sent her.

Very disappointed about this one. I have a feeling there might be another guy.

 

[Skills]

Update on this. My plan was to take her on a third date to see a comedy show, to build more comfort, find out more intimate details about her and then not invite her home, instead inviting her to my house a few days later for drinks. She was enthusiastic about the show, we ended up going on Monday and grabbing drinks after. She did seem a little more distant and the kisses were more brief (she was the one ending them) on this date. She agreed to drinks on Thursday, but when Thursday came around she flaked because she was completing a job application. She didn't respond to my suggestion for drinks the next day and has been uncharacteristically slow with her responses to my texts (she used to always respond within hours, now she either doesn't respond or right now, it's been over 28 hours and she still hasn't responded to a question I sent her.

Very disappointed about this one. I have a feeling there might be another guy.

Such a horrible strategy to take a girl to a comedy show, you should be disappointed that you being part of seduction forum for so long disaded to disregard basic dating advice and freelance and do your own thing and see the results... this is exactly what happens, and yes you are done

 

[Beam]

Such a horrible strategy to take a girl to a comedy show, you should be disappointed that you being part of seduction forum for so long disaded to disregard basic dating advice and freelance and do your own thing and see the results... this is exactly what happens, and yes you are done

Ok then, what should I have done. Invited her over to my house for drinks again for the third time??? Would that have made her more comfortable?

EDIT: That was a lashing out and a guilt trip. I apologize @Skills. These are my own demons and you are right of course. I should have asked for more advice before going off and doing my own thing.

 

[Skills]

Ok then, what should I have done. Invited her over to my house for drinks again for the third time??? Would that have made her more comfortable?

EDIT: That was a lashing out and a guilt trip. I apologize @Skills. These are my own demons and you are right of course. I should have asked for more advice before going off and doing my own thing.

Nah you can lash out I like straight talk, this is how men talk, the comedy strategy is just like a movie date is just the worst form of seducers date, come on brother... dude 3 bounce, then 3 bounce different location... If 2 3 bounce in different locations don't get you laid, she is not into you

 

[Beam]

Nah you can lash out I like straight talk, this is how men talk, the comedy strategy is just like a movie date is just the worst form of seducers date, come on brother... dude 3 bounce, then 3 bounce different location... If 2 3 bounce in different locations don't get you laid, she is not into you

You might not have seen the part I deleted where I had a bit of a sulk at you about you saying I should be disappointed. Feeling disappointed with myself is something I've struggled with for years and I'm trying to learn to have more self compassion, so when you mentioned that I took it very personally. But you are right.

I like explaining my flawed lines of reasoning for doing what I did, so hopefully others can learn from my mistakes. For me, it's because this was a third date that my model for what to do got a bit thrown off. I know that bouncing around venues works on the first date (and second) but this was uncharted territory:

In this case, first date we went to a bar, then back to mine and made out. Second date, she came straight to mine, and made out in my bed. Third date, I was thinking, I don't want things to be too predictable and invite her straight to mine again. And maybe she doesn't feel enough comfort and she might think "he's just trying to get laid and doesn't actually care" which would lead to more LMR. So, lets try seeing a show and learning some more intimate personal details about her, then inviting her over for drinks not that day but soon. In my mind I was thinking of date compression, where Chase suggested doing something fun, leaving her wondering if you were going to invite her over or not, then not inviting her over.

Then, when she came over for drinks a few days later, she would feel more comfortable and I would seal the deal.

That was my line of reasoning. In fact, despite it clearly not working, my logical mind is still struggling to understand why it was a bad strategy and would love some more input if you guys have it.

Is it not too predictable having her around to yours again for the third time? I guess though, that I really wanted to sleep with her the night of the comedy show. Mirroring that, maybe she really wanted it as well and so when I didn't invite her back she might have gotten frustrated. I am still coming to terms with the fact that women really enjoy and want to be intimate with me as often as I want to be intimate with them. It's only in the last few months that women have started describing me as "sexy" and "hot" as opposed to just good looking before.

That doesn't really explain the fact that she was the one pulling away from the kisses first though and they weren't that good.

 

[Skills]

You might not have seen the part I deleted where I had a bit of a sulk at you about you saying I should be disappointed. Feeling disappointed with myself is something I've struggled with for years and I'm trying to learn to have more self compassion, so when you mentioned that I took it very personally. But you are right.

I like explaining my flawed lines of reasoning for doing what I did, so hopefully others can learn from my mistakes. For me, it's because this was a third date that my model for what to do got a bit thrown off. I know that bouncing around venues works on the first date (and second) but this was uncharted territory:

In this case, first date we went to a bar, then back to mine and made out. Second date, she came straight to mine, and made out in my bed. Third date, I was thinking, I don't want things to be too predictable and invite her straight to mine again. And maybe she doesn't feel enough comfort and she might think "he's just trying to get laid and doesn't actually care" which would lead to more LMR. So, lets try seeing a show and learning some more intimate personal details about her, then inviting her over for drinks not that day but soon. In my mind I was thinking of date compression, where Chase suggested doing something fun, leaving her wondering if you were going to invite her over or not, then not inviting her over.

Then, when she came over for drinks a few days later, she would feel more comfortable and I would seal the deal.

That was my line of reasoning. In fact, despite it clearly not working, my logical mind is still struggling to understand why it was a bad strategy and would love some more input if you guys have it.

Is it not too predictable having her around to yours again for the third time? I guess though, that I really wanted to sleep with her the night of the comedy show. Mirroring that, maybe she really wanted it as well and so when I didn't invite her back she might have gotten frustrated. I am still coming to terms with the fact that women really enjoy and want to be intimate with me as often as I want to be intimate with them. It's only in the last few months that women have started describing me as "sexy" and "hot" as opposed to just good looking before.

That doesn't really explain the fact that she was the one pulling away from the kisses first though and they weren't that good.

Beam the right move would have been in this situation a 3 bounce method type of date vs the comedy show. The comedy show is like a movie date it just bad cause is not conductive to interaction.