I'd like to give my input here since this has come up several times. I believe I had a decent comment on it in an earlier thread way back when the boards started, but I don't feel like digging through my old posts to find it.
Personally, I almost always pay for the dates I go on. But as Estate mentioned, these dates are rarely big "wine and dine" dinners unless this is the second or third date -- the first date is
always coffee or a drink for me. And even then, I still pay for most of those dates.
The problem here is that men actually make a big deal about the paying aspect of the date. The trick to maintaining a strong frame in this situation while still paying for the date is to just not even bring up the fact that you are paying (or that she is paying, if she is). If it's like a Starbucks (where you're ordering at a cash register), then just talk to her in line, and when it's your turn, you step up, order what you'd like, turn to her and say, "and what would you like to have?" Let her pick something, hand the money to the cash clerk, and turn back to her and continue your conversation. You'll sometimes get a thank you from the girl, and sometimes you won't. Either way, it's no big deal.
If there's one thing I'm absolutely sure of, it's that,
if you have to somehow even end up in a conversation about the bill or money on the date, then you are automatically in a position of weakness. I'll explain this right now.
- If the girl is not expecting you to pay for the date, and somehow the topic still comes up, it'll make it seem like you were giving thought to the whole situation which comes across as very formal, inexperienced, and weak. The date is about you and her -- the coffees/drinks are merely a "socially-accepted" way of the girl meeting up with you to get to know you.
If the girl is expecting you to pay for the date and you try to force a frame on her about how "you don't pay for dates," then it means you're already setting an "enemy" frame with this girl, and you two haven't even sat down with your drinks yet!
Unless you really are unemployed and the girl is aware of this (therefore setting the expectation that money is something you don't have to spend freely), then paying for the date without even bringing up the issue is strong, confident, and unmatched. I believe Chase has a lot of success with not paying for dates because he often
heavily disqualifies himself as a boyfriend (to the point where he tells women that he doesn't have a job), and on top of that, he doesn't stay in one location for very long, so it makes it very easy for him to set that frame.
On the other hand, if you're like me or 95% of the other men out there, it means you probably have at least a small source of income, you stay put in one location, and disqualifying yourself to the point where you make a girl believe that she should be paying for your coffee is damn near impossible.
As one more side note, Ricardus has also stated that he pays for dates. This is still a topic that is obviously up in the air, even between highly-respected seduction artists. I pay for almost every date, and I can say with 100% certainty that it hasn't hurt my game one bit.
- Franco
