Physical escalation prior to the kiss

[sumwunimetonce]

So I have been on 2 dates recently that have gone a very similar way,


Both dates started with food/drinks followed by a venue change.

In both cases there was great rapport, deep dive's, getting to know each other was great and eye contact was really strong

Date 1: (Super cute girl) Restaurant seats were opposite so physical escalation was hard, then there was a short walk to bar where we sat next to each other (and opposite her friends). Aside from some incidental touch I grabbed her hands during the meal and grabbed / touched her leg during the drinks but both felt they lacked excitement and sexuality. The girl seemed totally neutral to my physical contact. When I went for the kiss it came across as uncalibrated and I also had to lean slightly too far across her chair !!

Date 2: (Also super cute girl !!) Met her on the street, can't remember the reason but about 5 seconds after the meet I think I leaned in to see something on her phone and got that exciting little zing telling you its going well. Got her to a bar outside, table was huge so felt about 10ft apart but made it work, she showed me some stuff on her phone and I was touching her hand at this point. After 2 glasses of wine we walked to some outdoor swings. While waiting for the swings I faced right up to her and grabbed the lapels of her jacket gently and held her quite close, I was going to kiss her but felt it was not on. After some swing time (2 person romantic swings) where I had my arm round her and we were touching legs we got off and I tried to kiss her ... gentle head turn. Walked her some way towards her home and then said goodbye, again went for the kiss and ate some more hair !! She then said one more thing and went to say goodbye again, she may have wanted my to try for a third time but not totally sure.

In both cases I feel like the women were into me and wanted to be kissed but did not like me enough for a clumsy kiss and thus rejected it when it came.

I am guessing its a combination of several things;

Lack of boldness, when I have been touching them its been very easy and expected, almost too easy.

My touch is a bit passive, yes I am touching a leg or holding a hand but something feels off. With the second girl I faced right up to her and grabbed the lapels of her jacket gently and held her quite close, this felt more dominant and sexy, I feel more of this kind of thing is needed.

Possibly not being commanding enough during the date, not only with her but also when getting stuck at venues and locations within venues that block/hinder physical escalation.

I am not getting close enough to her at times, this can be hard due to logistics (I have been using new venues) and maybe when I have its seemed a little uncalibrated.

General body language giving away lack of confidence (I think all the above 4 points could be manifestations of this)

Possibly not being playful and teasing enough, I do not think this is always needed but probably helps a lot if your sexual frame is not nailed down. I have done a bit of this and could do more, especially mixing it with.

Not putting out a strong enough sexual vibe, like I say I have been using strong eye contact but not totally sure where I am going wrong on this one. Do you guys go for playfully talking / teasing about sex or put out the vibe more physically. Maybe I am being too friendly and spending too much time getting to know them on the dates.

Advice welcome

 

[JacobPalmer]

It's probably two things after reading everything you wrote, one of which you touched on.

1. Not strong enough of a sexual vibe - you'll work on this
2. This one is a bit more of a guess/assumption on my part. The kiss...where is it taking place. Are you alone? or public? Public is way harder as she won't feel judged/pressured. One thing you could try is to just pull her home, no kissing before then. It all really depends on the girl though.

 

[Fuck This]

You just have to be confident in being physically expressive and invite her to be comfortable touching you. Hi Fives, clasping hands, hug upon meeting, all set that tone.

Do things that require physical touch. Slow dance. Swing dance to quicker tempo songs.

Avoid "NEEDY" touch. Grabbing her as she is pulling away, putting her hand on you more than once. etc.

Make eye contact. smile. Own your attraction. Feed her need for attention sparingly but don't force feed it.


Move your place setting to the adjacent side so you can "show her pictures on her phone"
shoulders and legs incidental touching is imperitive.

 

[sumwunimetonce]

Update: Looking back at this now the issue was not how sexual I was, the date had a great comfort phase ... then I tried to skip straight to the sexual phase missing out the attraction part, not enough teasing, cocky behaviour and emotion spikes. Add this to me having a weak frame on the date and letting her lead this one is TOTALLY rubber ducked !! I think she now sees me as a 'friend' who may try to plant a kiss when she ain't interested ... I have been well and truly NEXTED !!! which hurts as she was an 8.5 with a great personality and values ...

 

[JP_]

It sounds like you are thinking way too deep into this one! My approach is always to keep it simple. Go to a bar, build great rapport. Invite her for more drinks back to your place at the height of rapport. Once you get her back at yours the rules all change. After a few more drinks what always worked for me if I felt I had to somewhat force the issue would be to ask what her eye colour was. This gave me an excuse to get close to her and look deeply into her eyes and the first kiss was inevitable after that!

Trying to force the kiss when you are outside or far apart from each other is always a challenge and can make you look thirsty with no chill!

 

[Seppuku]

Hey sumwunimetonce,

Coming a little late on this post but allow me to share a few thoughts.

Add this to me having a weak frame on the date and letting her lead this one is TOTALLY rubber ducked !! I think she now sees me as a 'friend' who may try to plant a kiss when she ain't interested ... I have been well and truly NEXTED !!! which hurts as she was an 8.5 with a great personality and values ...

Sorry for you, really. But at the same time the kiss episode that you describe here is a recurring pattern on these Boards, that is very saddening to see.

Going for the kiss is in my opinion a big mistake. She doesn't really want you to kiss her. What she wants is you to conquer her in a smoothly dominant manner - that is, against the (token) barriers she will put against you. Like she had no choice, she couldn't resist, and you made sex happen before she knew it. In sum, she wants you to fuck her, but can't make it too easy for you. When you "go for the kiss", you are handing over to her whatever dominant frame you had, and put yourself at her mercy. All she had to do is to present her cheek, and your frame was shattered to pieces. Dominance test failed, game over. You are nexted.

In a game where she would like you to have the dominant frame, never put yourself at her mercy, because she won't show you any.

How about that: venue finished, no kiss, you extend your hand towards hers and let her put her hand in yours (it's a compliance request) - or else just take her hand. Then tell her "let's go" and walk towards your home. She doesn't know where you are taking her yet, but you are acting like if it was obvious. I call that "acting as if the sale had already happened". Just have an excuse ready for when (if) she asks "where are we going". "I am taking you to a cool venue where they serve good wine and play classical music" (or similar).

Once you both are isolated, take her to the living room, make her comfortable, serve two glasses of alcohol, then sit next to her. Start over the touching, this time more daring and more sexual. Escalate. You eventually kiss her just when you're just about to penetrate her.

That's how I kiss girls, anyway.

For the rest of your post, just a few tips.

Take your girls to a venue where you guys can sit side by side. Much easier to get close to her and run your physical game.

Avoid the restaurants. It is a lot of pressure on her. It's noisy. People sit face to face with huge tables in between. Plus, it frames you into the boyfriend candidate. No issue with becoming BF / GF, but only at a later stage, after you became intimate. For now your concern is to make sex happen before her escalation window closes.

I personally like lounge bars in hotels. A place with dim lights, some cool, not too loud music in background, plenty of cocktails and wine, not too noisy, not too much people. Conducive to intimacy! But otherwise, a discreet coffee shop, not too crowded, would be an even better choice than a restaurant.

You touch her, but it felt neutral. At least, she let you touch her, which is good. Then why not becoming a little bolder with your touch. Deliberately run your hand over her bare skin - shoulder, arm, leg, neck... Take her hair and play with it. While at the same time continuing the conversation as if normal. If that goes well, why not trying to be a little sexual? Venture a finger around her boobs... No kidding, I have done that a few times without problems. It's not absolutely necessary for a smooth seduction. But it will definitely put yourself in sexual territory. Way better than the kiss in my opinion.

Use and abuse of your sexy voice. It is a very powerful tool. Also try what Chase calls "the slow smile" (you can search it in GC). You can combine both of these techniques with your touching routine above, it's a powerful mix. Also use push pull, like a lot. I guess that's what you call the "attraction part", which is in fact building up sexual tension.

Okay, let us know about your next dates!

Seppuku