Poll: Would you open Direct or Indirect in these daygame situations?

[Ryan]

1. Girl sitting on a bench, alone, reading a book or texting.

2. Girl at bus/train station, waiting for the bus/train. Standing or sitting alone, but with many people 4-5 feet away.

3. Girl on bus/train. Sitting alone, but with other people surrounding her.

4. Girl walking in front of you on the street, alone.

5. Girl walking in front of you on the street, with friend/s.

6. Girl walking behind you on the street, alone.

7. Girl walking behind you on the street, with friend/s.

8. Girl walking towards you on the street, alone.

9. Girl walking towards you on the street, with friend/s.

10. Girl at cafe, alone. Eating or working on her homework.

11. Girl in queue, waiting for something alone, with you in front or behind her.

12. Girl in any location, standing, appearing like they're waiting for someone or something.



Thank you. It would be extra helpful if you could add extra information to your hypothetical approaches and briefly explain why you chose to open in that way for each scenario.

 

[Marty]

Ryan:

This is purely my amateur opinion and should not be taken otherwise:

1. Situational → Direct (within 10 seconds)

2. "Going somewhere exciting?" → Direct within 10 seconds

3. Direct (see Transit Game): "I know this might seem rather forward, but I saw you walk in and sit down here, and I just thought you had the most incredible look about you and I simply had to come meet you."

4. would not open

5. would not open

6. Direct

7. Direct in night-street game. I'm too much of a pussy to have tried this much in the daytime yet—actually I've done it precisely twice. One of those was direct.

8. Direct.

9. see #7

10. Direct within the first 10 seconds. I have done this many times.

11. Situational → Direct (very fast): "Is this a good place to eat? ... Actually, I've already eaten. I just wanted to come say hello. You're very cute. What's your name?"

12. This one is a gift. "Nice view, huh?" ... "I saw you standing here a few moments ago, and I simply HAD to come back and say hi. You have a lovely smile. What's your name?"

My preference is for direct throughout, because I'm not very experienced. Chase writes about indirect-direct a lot, but he is obviously supremely skilled and able to convey his interest comfortably through body language.

-Marty

 

[PinotNoir]

I'll bite!

1. Girl sitting on a bench, alone, reading a book or texting.

These are each pretty different.

If she's on the phone, I've been using this line:
"I wish you weren't on the phone, so that we could have a good <adventure/conversation> together."

I'm not sure if that's direct or indirect.

If a girl is sitting, I usually do direct.

2. Girl at bus/train station, waiting for the bus/train. Standing or sitting alone, but with many people 4-5 feet away.

I haven't approached a girl on a bus/train, but I'd say indirect. If you go in direct and get shut down, it'll be in front of a lot of people, and then you'll have to stand/sit there waiting for your next stop awkwardly. However, if it's a compliment on her fashion/style, then I think that's a fine direct opener where a girl is not going to be like, "I have a boyfriend!" You're just commenting on her fashion. Then you can ask if her career has something to do with fashion.

3. Girl on bus/train. Sitting alone, but with other people surrounding her.

Same as #2

4. Girl walking in front of you on the street, alone.

I get side-by-side (shoulder-to-shoulder), and then do direct. It's important to get side-by-side first. Don't talk/open from behind her.

Or, I wait until there is a natural stop (waiting for a traffic light to change).

5. Girl walking in front of you on the street, with friend/s.

This is tougher and is a little dependent on the girl/guy ratio.

If it's 1 guy, I've approached before to the guy and then glanced at the girl I'm interested in and said, "Man, this guy is really lucky to be with so many beautiful women!" After the small laughter, I then said to the girl I liked, "I don't want to disturb your plans, but I just wanted to say that you are quite striking (or some other compliment)" and then after her response I ask for her phone number.

If it's more girls than guys (or only girls), then I have just opened direct to the girl I liked.

Not sure if these are the best, just what I have done. I always try to close fast here and then leave.

6. Girl walking behind you on the street, alone.

How would I know that she's attractive?

Direct or indirect, no preference.

7. Girl walking behind you on the street, with friends.

Direct or indirect, no preference.

Indirect may be, "Hey, you girls know a good bar around here?" or "Hey, do you girls know how to get to X place?"

8. Girl walking towards you on the street, alone.

Direct

9. Girl walking towards you on the street, with friend/s.

Same as 7

10. Girl at cafe, alone. Eating or working on her homework.

Direct. If I do indirect, it feels like I'm just wasting her time. I have approached indirect before, and you can just see it on her face: "Eh, why is this guy wasting my time. I'm trying to study here." If you approach direct, then it's quick and she knows what you want.

11. Girl in queue, waiting for something alone, with you in front or behind her.

Indirect. Usually comment on something about the place or food, and then I comment on her.

12. Girl in any location, standing, appearing like they're waiting for someone or something.

Indirect or direct, but I'd say usually indirect. It's easy to ask, "Do you need help? You looked lost." Or something wittier like, "Waiting for hell to freeze over?" or bold like, "Waiting for Prince Charming? Because I'm right here."

 

[PinotNoir]

I do have to agree with Marty's last paragraph. Direct is usually solid advice for beginners, especially because it gets you out of your comfort zone early and gets you used to rejection without being affected by it much. And usually during indirect-direct openers, it gets a little awkward or you look more cowardly if you are not exuding sexiness. I also like direct because it's efficient; you don't waste your time or the girl's time. This isn't to say that indirect-direct openers are bad; I've read some really great FRs/LRs with them. Since I don't consider myself a "master of seduction," direct just works the best for me.

If I had just tons of time and places (during the day) with buckets of women, it would be interesting to do statistical data on this. Approach with directs and indirect-directs and compare the results. The problem is that it's just a way in and the first step, so it won't give you a definitive answer on what is best overall, but it will give you an approximate answer to what works best for yourself. The results won't help others as much because everyone is on different levels as far as conversation/closing and different styles.

I tend to be impulsive in certain regards, and I just go with what I feel at the time. Direct is usually my first impulse -- my first gut feeling. If I delay and delay, then I usually do indirect-direct as I have built it up too much in my head, and I need an easier way to begin.

 

[Ryan]

My issue with Direct is that fundamentals are the only tool in your arsenal. Her decision to continue conversation or go further is all and entirely down to your fundamentals.

However, with Indirect-direct/Slow opening, you can at least utilise a whole range of techniques used on this site to make her think positively about you, had you otherwise used direct. You can compensate if your fundamentals aren't so good.

 

[Marty]

My issue with Direct is that fundamentals are the only tool in your arsenal.

BUT by using Direct over and over, your fundamentals will progress far faster. It does wonders for your confidence with women, and how you come across (self-assured, outcome independent) is, to my understanding, the most important fundamental of all.

See my response to your earlier post for an idea of how this might play out over time. Personally, I trust Chase and Franco on this one.

If I had just tons of time and places (during the day) with buckets of women, it would be interesting to do statistical data on this.

Pinot, I agree, that's precisely it. Unless we have the luxury of living in a bustling metropolis (Ryan is fortunate in this regard), each approach is too valuable to be squandered by playing it indirect and messing the girl around. The process should instead be: screen them for possible interest, then move on unless it's really worth spending more time. This also communicates confidence and and a sense of self-worth to the woman, which is really important.

It's actually one of the key lessons I've learned from this whole process, whether you call it the Girls Chase method, or the Amante School of seduction science... either way, by "hanging around" a woman without giving her a socially-attuned, implicit reason for why you're doing it, you're subtly communicating a lack of courage and decisiveness, two highly desirable masculine attributes. This marks you as a value-leeching time-waster from the word "go", and rules you out for consideration for any romantic role. By going direct, you distinguish yourself from the massed ranks of clueless males.

It's a problem I run into frequently in social circle, because you can't just lay on the shameless compliments in a social or occupational environment; it forces me to sharpen my body language and other nonverbals to the Nth degree. Also process and matching the pace of an interaction to a girl's signals. Not to mention reputation management.

Finally, for what it's worth, I get the clear impression that following a possible rejection, the girl is generally left flattered and built-up after a direct approach, while having to get rid of a guy being indirect about what he wants leaves her with a bad taste in the mouth.

 

[PinotNoir]

My issue with Direct is that fundamentals are the only tool in your arsenal. Her decision to continue conversation or go further is all and entirely down to your fundamentals.

However, with Indirect-direct/Slow opening, you can at least utilise a whole range of techniques used on this site to make her think positively about you, had you otherwise used direct. You can compensate if your fundamentals aren't so good.

Those are good points and merits discussing.

There may be a middle ground. I think direct openers that aren't about her looks hover in-between direct and indirect-direct. The "fashion compliment" that I used as an example in my post would fit this mold. It's not so direct that she's going to say, "Oh my god! I have a boyfriend!" That's just not socially savvy, and most women understand the social rules more so than men.

In my experience, most of the time a women will converse with you if you give a subtle direct opener like this, even if she has a boyfriend/husband. She'll be thankful for the conversation and curious to see who this (sexy) guy is.

There's another great element to the direct opener; it immediately (even if subtly) adds the below to your character:
boldness, risk-taking, adventure-seeking, courageous, confident, ambitious

And these are definitely sexy to women. Most men don't do this during the day.

But, this can also add increased expectations that you may not be able to fulfill as a beginner. On the contrary, if you never use direct openers, you're going to be missing out on an important learning tool: getting over fear (and moving fast).

In my opinion, there are more pros to the direct opener for myself. But if you're getting buckets full of numbers and dates using indirect-direct openers, then definitely stick to that. Use what works.

 

[Smurf]

Would depend on my mood.

Right now I'm looking for a semi-playful girl, so I'd most likely open up with some ridiculous command or something witty/funny. Not gonna' go through all of those separate examples but if the girl was on her phone or reading... "Whatcha' reading?" Then depending on her response: "You know there's books written about me..." To start up a playful vibe. If she bites, good, if not, I can screen her out. That's what I've been doing recently anyway.

Don't over think an approach. There's a good chance that even if you read about the perfect opening on this forum and put it into practice you still might not get it right. You've got to experiment. So if you are really curious, try some different openers out in these situations and see which one you like best or which one works best. That's my take.

Jake.

 

[Ryan]

hmm.. everyone's made some great points, i think this is something i have to think about a bit more on how i'm going to implement it, or maybe i'm thinking it over too much? I don't know.

Indirect-direct, slow opening, fashion and other various compliments, etc - It's so hard to know where these openers will fit in. I haven't had much success with direct yet, but i'll keep going