When I read about preopening from the experienced guys, it sounds so smooth but I have no idea how to see it in my mind's eye and therefore it's hard to recreate. Is there a video out there that has a good example or maybe just an article that makes visual sense?
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I think this is part of a wider discussion about absorbing the lessons we learn here through audio-visual aids.
I can't advise you as regards pre-opening, and most of the videos I've seen on YouTube are way too high-energy, gimmicky and "fun", going completely against what Chase teaches.
However, if you haven't already done so, take the time to listen to Chase's recent podcast, which Knight was good enough to cross-post—first, you can absorb the same lessons in a different format, which is useful; and second, you can hear what a "gravelly voice" should sound like... it's nice to have a solid auditory impression of this young man who has influenced us all here so deeply with his invaluable guidance.
There's also this prank video which is obviously meant to be a joke, but nonetheless, I was impressed by the masculinity, dominant body language, and commanding vocals of the protagonist.
Another thing I noticed, as regards posture: watch a "street scene" from a movie, where the background is populated with cameo actors, and then compare it with a stock "street scene" from a newscast, showing rush-hour commuters to illustrate a story about mass transit, for example. You'll notice that in the movie version, even the bit-part actors hold themselves properly, whilst in the "real" clip from the bulletin, the "ordinary people" are slouching and trudging as per usual.
I can't advise you as regards pre-opening, and most of the videos I've seen on YouTube are way too high-energy, gimmicky and "fun", going completely against what Chase teaches.
However, if you haven't already done so, take the time to listen to Chase's recent podcast, which Knight was good enough to cross-post—first, you can absorb the same lessons in a different format, which is useful; and second, you can hear what a "gravelly voice" should sound like... it's nice to have a solid auditory impression of this young man who has influenced us all here so deeply with his invaluable guidance.
There's also this prank video which is obviously meant to be a joke, but nonetheless, I was impressed by the masculinity, dominant body language, and commanding vocals of the protagonist.
Another thing I noticed, as regards posture: watch a "street scene" from a movie, where the background is populated with cameo actors, and then compare it with a stock "street scene" from a newscast, showing rush-hour commuters to illustrate a story about mass transit, for example. You'll notice that in the movie version, even the bit-part actors hold themselves properly, whilst in the "real" clip from the bulletin, the "ordinary people" are slouching and trudging as per usual.
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Tom,
As a note, I feel like pre-opening isn't nearly as effective in day game as it is in night game, and to be honest, it can actually be a hindrance -- I mention this because I know you work day game from your previous posts.
Waiting for a girl to eyeball you during the day and send you a "signal" is just going to prevent you from opening, when it is likely that girls are just minding their own business during the day. If you're lucky, you might catch the glance of an interested girl in a non-socialized environment, but it isn't worth relying on.
Pre-opening is something that is very effective during night game because girls are expecting (even looking to be) approached, so they'll make an extra effort to send signals to the guys who intrigue them the most. I often use pre-opening, but that's because I usually game at bars or nightclubs, and it's the easiest way to filter out women who are looking to be approached.
Anyway, my point here is, don't rely on pre-opening for giving you indications as to which girls want to be approached during the day. For day-game, assume all women are open to approach, and open the ones that you find attractive.
- Franco
As a note, I feel like pre-opening isn't nearly as effective in day game as it is in night game, and to be honest, it can actually be a hindrance -- I mention this because I know you work day game from your previous posts.
Waiting for a girl to eyeball you during the day and send you a "signal" is just going to prevent you from opening, when it is likely that girls are just minding their own business during the day. If you're lucky, you might catch the glance of an interested girl in a non-socialized environment, but it isn't worth relying on.
Pre-opening is something that is very effective during night game because girls are expecting (even looking to be) approached, so they'll make an extra effort to send signals to the guys who intrigue them the most. I often use pre-opening, but that's because I usually game at bars or nightclubs, and it's the easiest way to filter out women who are looking to be approached.
Anyway, my point here is, don't rely on pre-opening for giving you indications as to which girls want to be approached during the day. For day-game, assume all women are open to approach, and open the ones that you find attractive.
- Franco
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Franco said:
Franco,
I might be wrong here but you make it look like pre-opening is only possible when a girl is already looking at you. The goal of pre-opening is getting a girl looking at you first, this can be done by good eye contact but also by touch. I pre-open to almost every girl i talk to, mostly by touch because that's what i'm most comfortable with. I do admit that i mostly approach at night, in clubs and bars.
I think of pre-opening as every thing you do before you start a conversation with a girl, to make her look at you first. Like putting your hand on her arm, nudging her, squeezing her shoulder, etc. which make her look at you. Then look at her back, smile and start conversation.
As you said, pre-opening is not as effective in day game, you can't always use pre-opening because it could weird them out. In day game its better to casually say hi and start conversation in stead of pre-opening unless this is done by eye-contact but again as you said this is rare in day game.
You're absolutely right that pre-opening is much more useful during night game then during day game but you made it look like pre-opening is only possible in the situation that a girl has already noticed you without specific action coming from you. Of course this is good because it shows that she is attracted to you because she things you're a sexy man for example, because you got your fundamentals down. But i don't think that this is the only thing pre-opening is about.
Maybe we just have a different opinion about the meaning of pre-opening and the things i qualified as pre-opening are something else for you.
EDIT:
Tom,
i looked up this article from chase about pre-opening, i think it can certainly help you.
https://www.girlschase.com/content/pre-opening
Cheers, Supah
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Supah,
I probably could have been a bit more clear, but I wasn't inferring this. I consider pre-opening to be everything you do before you approach a girl to set the right vibe to make her want to be (and open to being) approached by you. Once you begin to actually approach her, you are now past the "pre-open" phase and have entered the "opening" phase. So any physical contact you make or verbal openers you use to initiate conversation with her is part of the actual "opening."
The point I was trying to make here is that doing things like "waiting for a girl to notice you" or trying to be "mysterious" and "locked in" somewhere during the day isn't going to necessarily get you noticed all that much because girls aren't looking for that during the day, which is something they certainly do all the time at a bar or club when they are looking to meet a new, sexy man. So you'll miss opportunities to approach girls who could be extremely warm and receptive to you because you felt like they wouldn't be that way since they didn't notice you first.
EDIT: I just took a look at the article you linked by Chase; I believe it's one I read a long time ago. Our definitions of pre-opening do differ a bit, and I still consider it to be anything you do prior to approaching a girl to engage in an interaction with her. This includes things like using sexy eye contact, using pre-selection, having good posture while giving off a mysterious, but warm, socially approachable vibe, etc. Anyway, it's a small difference in defining the terminology, but it's all the same stuff. =)
- Franco
I probably could have been a bit more clear, but I wasn't inferring this. I consider pre-opening to be everything you do before you approach a girl to set the right vibe to make her want to be (and open to being) approached by you. Once you begin to actually approach her, you are now past the "pre-open" phase and have entered the "opening" phase. So any physical contact you make or verbal openers you use to initiate conversation with her is part of the actual "opening."
The point I was trying to make here is that doing things like "waiting for a girl to notice you" or trying to be "mysterious" and "locked in" somewhere during the day isn't going to necessarily get you noticed all that much because girls aren't looking for that during the day, which is something they certainly do all the time at a bar or club when they are looking to meet a new, sexy man. So you'll miss opportunities to approach girls who could be extremely warm and receptive to you because you felt like they wouldn't be that way since they didn't notice you first.
EDIT: I just took a look at the article you linked by Chase; I believe it's one I read a long time ago. Our definitions of pre-opening do differ a bit, and I still consider it to be anything you do prior to approaching a girl to engage in an interaction with her. This includes things like using sexy eye contact, using pre-selection, having good posture while giving off a mysterious, but warm, socially approachable vibe, etc. Anyway, it's a small difference in defining the terminology, but it's all the same stuff. =)
- Franco
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Franco,
I completely agree with you on this.
Yes i understand what you consider to be pre-opening. And i agree with you that you can definitely call this 'pre-opening', its just something different then what i thought of as pre-opening. I read chase's article a while ago, before i read your point of view about pre-opening. So i still had these things in mind when i thought of pre-opening. I agree that the pre-opening chase talks about is indeed a part of opening but i still like to call this pre-opening because it's prior to really start a conversation which i consider opening.
After reading your post i now think of it as Pre-opening 'phase 1' and the things i read about in chase's article as pre-opening 'phase 2'
It doesn't actually matter how to call these things, they both are important and it's not always easy to draw the line between both, especially when we are talking eye contact.
Thank you for explaining Franco, i do now clearly understand your point of view.
Cheers, Supah
Franco said:
I completely agree with you on this.
Franco said:
Yes i understand what you consider to be pre-opening. And i agree with you that you can definitely call this 'pre-opening', its just something different then what i thought of as pre-opening. I read chase's article a while ago, before i read your point of view about pre-opening. So i still had these things in mind when i thought of pre-opening. I agree that the pre-opening chase talks about is indeed a part of opening but i still like to call this pre-opening because it's prior to really start a conversation which i consider opening.
After reading your post i now think of it as Pre-opening 'phase 1' and the things i read about in chase's article as pre-opening 'phase 2'
It doesn't actually matter how to call these things, they both are important and it's not always easy to draw the line between both, especially when we are talking eye contact.
Thank you for explaining Franco, i do now clearly understand your point of view.
Cheers, Supah