Punished a girl, punished my Penis

[IrishConrad]

Gentleman,

1 week ago I was out with some friends when I got a text from a girl who has Not been following logic: https://www.girlschase.com/content/why-g ... llow-logic.

Her text came late on a Friday night with the words..."should we get together tonight"

I explained to my friends that she has been acting interested one day, cold the next, and it just so happens she is moving to another city in a couple weeks.

We all agree that I shouldn't answer and I should respond the next day with something aloof of my own and say sorry we missed each other, was busy.

That is what I did. Responeded with a "that's ok"......fast forward to now.

This weekend rolls around(her last one in town) and I mention that we should get together. Little to no talk during the week and I don't hear from her.

In short, I basically punished her for being hot and cold with a no response, and a cordial ,"sorry we missed each other" the next day.

I did not get laid, nor did she chase more.....

I thought I was in the right track to re-frame the attraction and her to make a move beyond a friday night drunk text.

What is the lesson here?

 

[Franco]

IC,

We all agree that I shouldn't answer and I should respond the next day with something aloof of my own and say sorry we missed each other, was busy.

That is what I did. Responeded with a "that's ok"......fast forward to now.

Well, I can't say that you guys came to a good conclusion!

You only want to be aloof to girls over text when they are avoiding getting together with you. However, this girl sent you a very direct text about getting together that night, so you need to reward that behavior by, ideally, agreeing to see her and closing the deal since she is obviously putting herself out there or AT LEAST responding and saying that you would really like to, but you're busy at the moment. Then suggest another time to get together (just as a girl might do if she really wants to see you but she's genuinely busy).

In short, I basically punished her for being hot and cold with a no response, and a cordial ,"sorry we missed each other" the next day.

I did not get laid, nor did she chase more.....

Yep... this one will bite you in the ass a few times before you realize it isn't worth it. You rarely ever want to punish girls you haven't slept with for anything at all. You can be aloof and have more of a "sorry, I forgot about you" attitude toward things, but going out of your way to punish a girl is probably one of the best ways to send her straight into "auto-rejection hell."

I thought I was in the right track to re-frame the attraction and her to make a move beyond a friday night drunk text.

What is the lesson here?

Always reward the girls who make an effort toward getting together with you. Also, never punish a girl for flaking on you. Just act non-chalant about it -- because you're a high-value guy that has other dates lined up anyway, right?

- Franco

 

[IrishConrad]

Thanks Franco.

I want to keep this one as an option. She is only moving a few hours away and I have some friends in her new place as well. It would be great to have a a date lined up anytime I'm around or she's back in town.

ep... this one will bite you in the ass a few times before you realize it isn't worth it. You rarely ever want to punish girls you haven't slept with for anything at all. You can be aloof and have more of a "sorry, I forgot about you" attitude toward things, but going out of your way to punish a girl is probably one of the best ways to send her straight into "auto-rejection hell."

I left out that we've already slept together. She has invited me to hang out but nothing ever came of it. The hot and cold after we slept together made me act aloof. The last time I received a text to hang out from here "sometime" I was in bed with another girl so I'm continually working on the other dates part.

I was honestly surprised and it was a nice ego stroke to get the text, at the time I thought if I ignored her on her request after her subsequent, ambiguous requests to hang out that it would flip the script.

It did not...but she was nice about it as well and responded to my texts.

I don't want to put much more mental energy in this one but I'd like to patch it up so future dates and for the sake of patching it up.

Should I let her know her behavior and aloofness was a factor in me not answering her direct "should we hang out tonight".

Ego, alcohol, and frustration got the better of me. Rather than going over to her place and doing what I love to do most.

Who doesn't want a great lay they can count on when they travel? If you have some patch up material in your garage I'll listen, just don't tell me to let her go. Because I will be a stubborn ass and not listen.

We've joked around a bit since she left about missing the boat on sleeping together. And I told her to let me know how things are going for her once she is settled in.

Do you think I need to explain what happened and why we didn't hang out or just let it takes it's course?

 

[Franco]

IC,

Was going to write more on this, but then I saw this:

We've joked around a bit since she left about missing the boat on sleeping together. And I told her to let me know how things are going for her once she is settled in.

Do you think I need to explain what happened and why we didn't hang out or just let it takes it's course?

If you guys are back to joking and texting back and forth, then I wouldn't worry about having to explain anything (not that I necessarily would have tried to explain things anyway, but now it seems like you definitely should not).

One thing that I want to mention is that a girl generally should never be "hot and cold" with you after sleeping together unless you made a mistake somewhere. But it gets hairy because you need to pinpoint the mistake... and that could have occurred anywhere after you two finally hooked up. If you took too long to send her a warm text after she left, or if you took too long to invite her to come over again, she might be hesitant about your intentions and play games to see where you're at. At the same time, you have to be careful how you treat her so that she doesn't feel like you're throwing her under the bus, especially if you set the expectation that you'd like to see her again.

It sounds like you've mostly patched things up, so I wouldn't worry too much about it. Hopefully she'll be warm when you're in town to visit. =)

- Franco

 

[Grand Pooba]

Franco,

This thread caught my interest. Your revelations of when to be aloof and when not to be aloof has me a little confused, so I was hoping to get some clarification on the following, as it is relevant to a girl in my life.

You only want to be aloof to girls over text when they are avoiding getting together with you. However, this girl sent you a very direct text about getting together that night, so you need to reward that behavior by, ideally, agreeing to see her and closing the deal since she is obviously putting herself out there or AT LEAST responding and saying that you would really like to, but you're busy at the moment. Then suggest another time to get together (just as a girl might do if she really wants to see you but she's genuinely busy).

so situation 1 is:
- You haven't slept with the girl.
- She is interested (or not interested) but trying to make you chase by avoiding getting together with you.

In this case it is okay to be aloof, because you're a high value guy.

should you be aloof and disinterested when she is avoiding getting together because to be interested would be chasing her?

situation 2:
- you haven't slept with her but she is chasing you and has made herself available.

In this case you should definitely NOT be aloof and go with her plan. If you're busy, tell her and reschedule, correct? In this case you do not punish her, but reward her investment.

One thing that I want to mention is that a girl generally should never be "hot and cold" with you after sleeping together unless you made a mistake somewhere. But it gets hairy because you need to pinpoint the mistake... and that could have occurred anywhere after you two finally hooked up. If you took too long to send her a warm text after she left, or if you took too long to invite her to come over again, she might be hesitant about your intentions and play games to see where you're at. At the same time, you have to be careful how you treat her so that she doesn't feel like you're throwing her under the bus, especially if you set the expectation that you'd like to see her again.

This is what I would really like an explanation and elaboration on. I am in this situation, where I slept with a girl and she is maintaining contact yet being hot and cold. How do you pinpoint the issue at hand?

This girl is definitely playing games. I do not understand what her goal is or what she is trying to figure out.

Why would she feel like a man would throw her under the bus? Why is it more important after you set an expectation to see her again?

 

[Franco]

ozzo,

My question: why should you be aloof and disinterested when she is avoiding getting together?

You set yourself up to answer your own question here, but I'll connect the dots for ya:

She is interested but trying to make you chase by avoiding getting together with you.

When she's avoiding getting together with you, there's only two possibilities:

• 1) She's not interested in you
  2) She's trying to get you to chase her

If it's the first one, texting her more is going to waste your time anyway because she's simply not interested. If it's the second one, you want to not give into her frame, which lets her know that you're not a man who wastes his time chasing women. Texting her more without the purpose of getting her out is only going to validate (to her) that you're chasing. So aloofness wins here.

situation 2:
- you haven't slept with her but she is chasing you and has made herself available.

In this case you should definitely NOT be aloof and go with her plan. If you're busy, tell her and reschedule, correct? In this case you do not punish her, but reward her investment.

Correct. Whenever a woman gives you investment, you need to reward that investment. The bigger the investment, the bigger the reward. Remember, it takes a lot out of girl to give huge chunks of investment (because it risks her social status and reputation). If you don't properly decline large investment when you have to decline, it can send a girl straight into auto-rejection so that she can protect that reputation.

This is what I would really like an explanation and elaboration on. I am in this situation, where I slept with a girl and she is maintaining contact yet being hot and cold. How do you pinpoint the issue at hand?

Again, this is hard to pinpoint. You'll have to think back to everything that happened during and after sex. Was your sex good? Did you treat her well after sex? Did you let her sleep over and/or contact her the next day? Did you invite her to see you again shortly after the first sexual encounter?

A lot of these things come into play when a woman is deciding how she feels about you after you two have become intimate. It's a delicate stage in the sense that you can still mess things up, but it's also a pretty straightforward stage that just requires you to do everything correctly if you plan on seeing her again.

Why would she feel like a man would throw her under the bus? Why is it more important after you set an expectation to see her again?

Well, she's just given up the one thing she had as control over you (sex), and you can use that to judge her (by seeing her as slutty for giving it up so soon, assuming you got to it quickly) or somehow blab about it to other people (which again makes her look bad in the eyes of society). She may not feel like YOU will do that if you set yourself up as a man who kisses and doesn't judge -- which is what you should always do -- but she can certainly end up feeling like you judged her if you set the expectation that you wanted something longer term and then only slept with her once and didn't contact her again.

I think this stuff becomes more comprehensible if you've been around guys who treat women like crap. There are literally guys out there who will sleep with a girl and then kick her out of their own apartment right after for "being a whore." It's sad, but it's true. Women have to do everything they possibly can to prevent that situation from happening (for both their own emotional sanity as well as their social reputation).

The only reason I say it's extra important to manage all of this after sex is, well, because you want to see her again! If she gets buyer's remorse, then she's certainly not going to make another purchase from the same seller, right?

Hope that clears things up. =)

- Franco

 

[Grand Pooba]

Correct. Whenever a woman gives you investment, you need to reward that investment. The bigger the investment, the bigger the reward. Remember, it takes a lot out of girl to give huge chunks of investment (because it risks her social status and reputation). If you don't properly decline large investment when you have to decline, it can send a girl straight into auto-rejection so that she can protect that reputation.

This is what i was looking for, and helps explain the meaning of investment. Now, is it ALWAYS the case to reward her when she invests? What if she has been behaving badly and then decides to invest?

You'll have to think back to everything that happened during and after sex. Was your sex good?

Yes. It was long and intense. I brought her to climax at least once.

Did you treat her well after sex? ?

Yes. We cuddled and she slept right away.

Did you let her sleep over and/or contact her the next day??

I let her sleep over, cooked her breakfast in the morning, and drove her into the city. I did not contact her after dropping her off until nine days later.

Did you invite her to see you again shortly after the first sexual encounter?

I waited about 9 days before contacting her again. I didn't send any kind of text to thank her or inquire how the rest of her day went. When I contacted her it was to see how she is doing and for her to come over. No reply from her. I tried again a few days later, she replied that she is busy but asked how I am doing. When I said it would be great to see her again, no response from her.

It seems that something went wrong at the very end.

She may not feel like YOU will do that if you set yourself up as a man who kisses and doesn't judge -- which is what you should always do -- but she can certainly end up feeling like you judged her if you set the expectation that you wanted something longer term and then only slept with her once and didn't contact her again.

I think in my situation I set her up as a long term interest, yet also told her that I am enjoying being single till I get things in order. But in this case I also did contact her again. And she doesn't seem receptive.

Perhaps what you also mean is that maybe she will change her mind if you set and expectation and then backed out?

 

[Franco]

ozzo,

Well, this one was easy:

I let her sleep over, cooked her breakfast in the morning, and drove her into the city. I did not contact her after dropping her off until nine days later.

Your issue was right there. For a one-night stand, this probably would have been okay. If you want to see her again, however, nine days is way too long to wait to contact her again. You'll always want to send her a text message the next day after you had sex (regardless of whether or not she slept over and whether or not you plan on seeing her again) as a warm "that was amazing and I appreciate that it happened" type of thing.

The next time you contact her after that initial message (if you want to see her again) should be within 3-5 days of you two getting together. At the very most, it should be less than a week. If you wait any longer than that, she's going to develop some negative feelings about the situation because she isn't sure what it is you want from her, and she doesn't want to feel used for sex (i.e. you hit her up again because you couldn't find another girl to sleep with that night).

When we emphasize that you should only be seeing "casual" girls every 7-10 days, that doesn't mean you shouldn't be not talking to them in between. It's just that you're actual meet-ups (in person) should occur at that rate. This girl definitely had reservations after you not only did not text her the day after, but then you proceeded to wait way too long to contact her in general. It's pretty easy to see why she's being very hot and cold toward you.

- Franco

 

[Grand Pooba]

Thank you, Franco. After your post I realized that I had entirely the wrong kind of mindset about what this girl was doing, and that the principal problem was actually that I didn't treat her well after I last saw her, and was approaching her in a manner that made her seem used. It's funny, because after realizing this, she stopped being hot and cold and I actually did see her again this past weekend; cooked her brunch, we had sex, and then she left, after which time I sent her a thank you that she actually responded to. Things feel like they're on a much higher note.

 

[IrishConrad]

Ozzo,

It seem like we are in a similar situation and mindset. Or at least operating from the same a similar frame when it comes to building attraction with a girl we are really into.

I've got to study up/read up and get it into my head that women are emotional creatures and they don't think like we do. I've noticed with a lot of the time, it's not that they are hot and cold, but their emotions are dictating their day.

I'm trying to get better at mirroring there behavior while holding the frame that I have shit to do, conquests to conquer. Basically, if she is short with me or I get a no response to a one word response, respond the same. If she is approaching me, joking, asking me about my day, reward that behavior with the same.

I started this thread because I had the wrong frame. I was trying to build attraction by being aloof. I should have responded that night with a sorry I'm too but lets catch each other tomorrow. Or see you at your place in 1 hour.

As far as her girls being hot and cold after sleeping with you, It sounds like the girl you're with is into you as well. And the girl I'm with seems to be also.

If you can't pinpoint the mistake, or if the mistake is found and it's a small one, how many times does it come down to the simple fact that she's an attractive girl with options, orbiters, and men pinning for her all the time>?

In the case of a girl I was sleeping with last summer, we were going to get a hotel room that week after some good banter and great sex 2 weeks prior. That ended abruptly with a, "I guess we've got to stop this, I've sort of started seeing someone else". Which means the entire time I thought I was doing everything right and things were good, so was another guy. Lesson learned.

 

[Grand Pooba]

GIRL: "I guess we've got to stop this, I've sort of started seeing someone else."
YOU: "That's cool babe, I don't mind another man. So we still good for Saturday at 4pm?"

Her statement could have been a test.

 

[IrishConrad]

GIRL: "I guess we've got to stop this, I've sort of started seeing someone else."
YOU: "That's cool babe, I don't mind another man. So we still good for Saturday at 4pm?"

Her statement could have been a test.

Could have been. But we didn't speak for 4 months after that.

My response: "That's cool, who's the lucky guy?"

That was my disappointed, butt-hurt answer. Dumb.

But doesn't communicating that, "you don't mind another man" communicate that you'll take whatever scraps and crumbs she can give?

From what I understand you want to communicate that you know she's probably talking to other guys and not even mention it. You're talking to other girls so NBD.

I think my best answer should have been a no-response.

 

[Grand Pooba]

GIRL: "I guess we've got to stop this, I've sort of started seeing someone else."
YOU: "That's cool babe, I don't mind another man. So we still good for Saturday at 4pm?"

Her statement could have been a test.

Could have been. But we didn't speak for 4 months after that.

My response: "That's cool, who's the lucky guy?"

That was my disappointed, butt-hurt answer. Dumb.

But doesn't communicating that, "you don't mind another man" communicate that you'll take whatever scraps and crumbs she can give?

From what I understand you want to communicate that you know she's probably talking to other guys and not even mention it. You're talking to other girls so NBD.

I think my best answer should have been a no-response.

The core issue that she presented is a frame issue. She framed it as "I cannot see you anymore because I am seeing someone else." In the response that you gave her, you both accepted AND rewarded her frame by communicating that you're both okay with the new setup she proposed (ending things with you) and also calling the other guy lucky and making her feel good about seeing him over you.

This is also why she didn't speak with you for four more months. You basically gave in to her frame and didn't challenge it, or turn it on its head.

What I was advocating is to be more ballsy, take her frame and take it one step further, essentially communicating that you're cool with her seeing other men, that you won't judge her for it and you understand, but that nothing has changed situation ally between you and her.

The worst thing she will do is say no and stick to her frame. Best case, you can stay with her on a casual basis and see other women yourself. Nothing to lose either way.

 

[IrishConrad]

The core issue that she presented is a frame issue. She framed it as "I cannot see you anymore because I am seeing someone else." In the response that you gave her, you both accepted AND rewarded her frame by communicating that you're both okay with the new setup she proposed (ending things with you) and also calling the other guy lucky and making her feel good about seeing him over you.

This is also why she didn't speak with you for four more months. You basically gave in to her frame and didn't challenge it, or turn it on its head.

What I was advocating is to be more ballsy, take her frame and take it one step further, essentially communicating that you're cool with her seeing other men, that you won't judge her for it and you understand, but that nothing has changed situation ally between you and her.

The worst thing she will do is say no and stick to her frame. Best case, you can stay with her on a casual basis and see other women yourself. Nothing to lose either way.

Gold. Thanks, the thought of challenging that frame didn't enter my mind. My thoughts were directed at not being needy and acting like it was no big deal to me.

Do we have anything on the board or site on challenging a girls frame like the point you just made?

https://www.girlschase.com/content/walk-line <<<<<this is the closest I could find for required reading on that matter.