Question To The Pros about Relationships

[King]

Hey boys, hope you're all doing well

Have been pondering something the last few months as I go out into the field, meeting new women.

One thing I've noted from say 10+ years ago and now is the mindset/state shift of younger women. Perhaps its the modern era of societies narratives of making more independent women, which has lots of positive for women that can't find a quality man, so she can take care of herself.

But then there is the negative.... It honestly seems to me that women are just much colder than ever before, especially the younger ones. Like they give way less f*cks about men in general. Not to mention all the men I meet that have gotten obliterated by divorce or even are in an unhappy marriage where there is no sex / the wife calls the shots at home and the man is downright miserable (I know how these could have been solved but that's not the point of this thread)

I mean am I wrong? Or are have like 90% of the young women of todays era just developed this zero f*cks given about men attitude. I meet more and more girls aged 18-28 saying they're not even going to get married because f*ck that.. whats the point. Their attitudes and behaviors towards men in general is quite a solid reflection of this belief their holding onto, from what I am able to gather from close inspection in field.

Game is great and all but I do want to try and screen this type of shit out and not be surprised down the line. Is the only solution to just set/own the frame... be manipulative as f*ck to mold them and be a masculin dominant man? Because f*ck.... hot girls do not = good quality partner. Good quality women are extremely hard to find is what I'm realizing...

Any thoughts?

 

[Chase]

@King,

A fair bit of it is acting. A lot of women feel like they have to / are supposed to act this way, like if they don’t do it no one is going to respect them. You get into a relationship with them and the shield comes down quite a bit.

But it is definitely the case that the sexes have androgenized a lot. Women are provably more masculine than in the past (higher T levels and more masculine jawlines) and men are provably more feminine (lower T levels, lower libidos, and way more emotionally sensitive). This has been a continuous trend for at least 30 years and it shows no signs of stopping. Women growing more masculine means women who are going to tend to be a lot harder edged.

I will say, as a guy who has always liked relationships with women who have that very “zero fucks given about men” attitude… because I enjoy the challenge of dominating a chick who dominates other men… she has to be worth it. If a girl’s going to put that attitude on, she’d better be bringing a lot to the table. Gorgeous, highly intelligent, charismatic, great body, sane, and she’d better be quality in a relationship. Otherwise she is just not worth the trouble.

If you get a girl like this, and she is worth it, you just shag her, then pull her into your world, set a very clear frame that you care about her and respect her yet nevertheless your world is your world: you’ve got things that are important to you, you’re going to do them, and also you have certain expectations of her. She can buck against that and balk but it’s up to her if she’s going to stay. Assuming you do this right, she is going to stay. Very few men are able to show her both care and firmness. They’re either rigidly insensitive or pushover dweebs — genuine men who are chill but firm are very rare.

If she is not worth it, you just shag her if it isn’t too hard / she isn’t too annoying, then move on. If she makes it challenging and starts to really get on your nerves, just eject and go find a girl who isn’t as grating. There’s no seducer bylaw that says “You must bang chicks even if they totally suck.”

Women aren’t being trained to be good for men these days. Like you find the old “how to be a good girlfriend” / “how to be a good wife” guides, and a bunch of websites will be laughing and mocking them as sexist, then you read them and are like, “How is this funny, exactly? This is actually a pretty good list. Weird!”

So what ends up happening is you have to train them yourself:

• "Hey, think you can cook me some dinner if I come over tonight?"
• "Pick me up some donuts on your way over, would you? I like cinnamon and chocolate glazed."
• "Would you mind tidying the place up a bit while I hop in the shower?"
• "I'd like it if we kept our phones silenced and put away while we were eating or doing something together. Is that a lot to ask?"
• "I like your body, but I think it'd be even better if you exercised more. Are you down to come to the gym with me or do calisthenics together?"

Etc.

Then you just use operant conditioning to reinforce desirable replies or disincentivize undesired ones.

Operant Conditioning in Your Romantic Relationships

Something I've noticed that a number of individuals untrained in relationship management theory tend to engage in is arbitrary (that is, seemingly random) punishment and reward inside of relationships. These sort of variable reward and punishment structures inside relationships generally lead to...

www.girlschase.com

The main thing to consider is that women haven't gone through some kind of rapid de-evolution or something. They are still drawing from the same sets of genes they had 50, 100, 200, 500 years ago. So everything you are seeing with them (beyond whatever their latent personalities are) is environmental. Once she is with you, you become a BIG part of her environment, and can start to shape her to be what you want.

She may push back on that, tell you it's not very modern, that it is anti-feminist, or whatever. You don't argue this, you just shrug and keep using operant conditioning.

Like, if you ask a girl if she thinks she can cook you dinner, and she gives you some flak about it not being very modern to ask a woman to cook for you, you can just tell her, "Oh, okay. Well I don't want to inconvenience you. I'll probably just go get some take-out then and we can hang out another night." 95% of the time, assuming she is hooked on that cock (and if she's not... step your bedroom game up!), she is going to suddenly be willing to cook you dinner, and extremely happy and girlish to be doing so. And the 5% of the time she holds firm... good, take-out food is yummy! Perhaps you ought to use your just-freed-up night to go game some additional chicks, too -- just in case this one doesn't come around (IME, they can sense when you are doing that, and come around soon after. You have to mean it though... I legitimately do not want to be with a chick who cannot do these basic things for me. So if she literally is not going to, then yes, she is getting replaced. But they all do them, and are glad to).

You know with children, they have the saying of "spare the rod, spoil the child." Parents, wanting to be extra nice, spoil their children, but it leads to the children actually being unhappy and unfulfilled. The same thing is happening with women. Men are trying to be these sensitive allies who avoid putting any pressure or expectations on women, and chicks end up unfulfilled. People don't want to be doing nothing with their lives. They want to be USEFUL to someone, and IMPORTANT.

You can give her that, and give her the best relationship of her life.

Chase

 

[Will_V]

Hey boys, hope you're all doing well

Have been pondering something the last few months as I go out into the field, meeting new women.

One thing I've noted from say 10+ years ago and now is the mindset/state shift of younger women. Perhaps its the modern era of societies narratives of making more independent women, which has lots of positive for women that can't find a quality man, so she can take care of herself.

But then there is the negative.... It honestly seems to me that women are just much colder than ever before, especially the younger ones. Like they give way less f*cks about men in general. Not to mention all the men I meet that have gotten obliterated by divorce or even are in an unhappy marriage where there is no sex / the wife calls the shots at home and the man is downright miserable (I know how these could have been solved but that's not the point of this thread)

I mean am I wrong? Or are have like 90% of the young women of todays era just developed this zero f*cks given about men attitude. I meet more and more girls aged 18-28 saying they're not even going to get married because f*ck that.. whats the point. Their attitudes and behaviors towards men in general is quite a solid reflection of this belief their holding onto, from what I am able to gather from close inspection in field.

Game is great and all but I do want to try and screen this type of shit out and not be surprised down the line. Is the only solution to just set/own the frame... be manipulative as f*ck to mold them and be a masculin dominant man? Because f*ck.... hot girls do not = good quality partner. Good quality women are extremely hard to find is what I'm realizing...

Any thoughts?

We do live in a pretty unstable time when it comes to the messages guys and girls get about who they should strive to be.

But I agree with @Chase that frame control is most of what determines how well you can do with a woman in a relationship. As much as there are young girls running around thinking they don't need men, there are so many dudes around with zero frame control. So much that it's hard to tell which one came first. So it's really two sides of the same coin.

Problem is society tells guys that having frame control is bad, it's 'controlling' and 'manipulative' and 'mansplaining' or whatever nonsense terms they come up with. But the reality is that girls respond to it very well, it's built into their adaptive psychology to mold themselves to the desires of the man they love, and when you do it with finesse she becomes a real trooper and loves to get affirmation and attention and rewards for doing things well.

But guys never seem to require anything of women these days. They just sort of exist there alongside her and hope things go well. They don't think of how the words they say hint to her at what they want and need from her. Or how to use a little bit of pressure to steer her in the right direction, or how to see when something undesirable is building up and how best to nip it in the bud, or how to 'grandstand' in a way that doesn't annoy her but instead makes her feel motivated and enthusiastic.

You know with children, they have the saying of "spare the rod, spoil the child." Parents, wanting to be extra nice, spoil their children, but it leads to the children actually being unhappy and unfulfilled. The same thing is happening with women. Men are trying to be these sensitive allies who avoid putting any pressure or expectations on women, and chicks end up unfulfilled. People don't want to be doing nothing with their lives. They want to be USEFUL to someone, and IMPORTANT.

You can give her that, and give her the best relationship of her life.

The same way that a man needs the right challenges in his life to develop him into what he needs to become, and suffers and aches for lack if it, a woman feels the same for the lack of a man with a strong will and the ability to impart the enthusiasm in others to fulfill it.

 

[King]

@King,

A fair bit of it is acting. A lot of women feel like they have to / are supposed to act this way, like if they don’t do it no one is going to respect them. You get into a relationship with them and the shield comes down quite a bit.

But it is definitely the case that the sexes have androgenized a lot. Women are provably more masculine than in the past (higher T levels and more masculine jawlines) and men are provably more feminine (lower T levels, lower libidos, and way more emotionally sensitive). This has been a continuous trend for at least 30 years and it shows no signs of stopping. Women growing more masculine means women who are going to tend to be a lot harder edged.

I will say, as a guy who has always liked relationships with women who have that very “zero fucks given about men” attitude… because I enjoy the challenge of dominating a chick who dominates other men… she has to be worth it. If a girl’s going to put that attitude on, she’d better be bringing a lot to the table. Gorgeous, highly intelligent, charismatic, great body, sane, and she’d better be quality in a relationship. Otherwise she is just not worth the trouble.

If you get a girl like this, and she is worth it, you just shag her, then pull her into your world, set a very clear frame that you care about her and respect her yet nevertheless your world is your world: you’ve got things that are important to you, you’re going to do them, and also you have certain expectations of her. She can buck against that and balk but it’s up to her if she’s going to stay. Assuming you do this right, she is going to stay. Very few men are able to show her both care and firmness. They’re either rigidly insensitive or pushover dweebs — genuine men who are chill but firm are very rare.

If she is not worth it, you just shag her if it isn’t too hard / she isn’t too annoying, then move on. If she makes it challenging and starts to really get on your nerves, just eject and go find a girl who isn’t as grating. There’s no seducer bylaw that says “You must bang chicks even if they totally suck.”

Women aren’t being trained to be good for men these days. Like you find the old “how to be a good girlfriend” / “how to be a good wife” guides, and a bunch of websites will be laughing and mocking them as sexist, then you read them and are like, “How is this funny, exactly? This is actually a pretty good list. Weird!”

So what ends up happening is you have to train them yourself:

• "Hey, think you can cook me some dinner if I come over tonight?"
• "Pick me up some donuts on your way over, would you? I like cinnamon and chocolate glazed."
• "Would you mind tidying the place up a bit while I hop in the shower?"
• "I'd like it if we kept our phones silenced and put away while we were eating or doing something together. Is that a lot to ask?"
• "I like your body, but I think it'd be even better if you exercised more. Are you down to come to the gym with me or do calisthenics together?"

Etc.

Then you just use operant conditioning to reinforce desirable replies or disincentivize undesired ones.

Operant Conditioning in Your Romantic Relationships

Something I've noticed that a number of individuals untrained in relationship management theory tend to engage in is arbitrary (that is, seemingly random) punishment and reward inside of relationships. These sort of variable reward and punishment structures inside relationships generally lead to...

www.girlschase.com

The main thing to consider is that women haven't gone through some kind of rapid de-evolution or something. They are still drawing from the same sets of genes they had 50, 100, 200, 500 years ago. So everything you are seeing with them (beyond whatever their latent personalities are) is environmental. Once she is with you, you become a BIG part of her environment, and can start to shape her to be what you want.

She may push back on that, tell you it's not very modern, that it is anti-feminist, or whatever. You don't argue this, you just shrug and keep using operant conditioning.

Like, if you ask a girl if she thinks she can cook you dinner, and she gives you some flak about it not being very modern to ask a woman to cook for you, you can just tell her, "Oh, okay. Well I don't want to inconvenience you. I'll probably just go get some take-out then and we can hang out another night." 95% of the time, assuming she is hooked on that cock (and if she's not... step your bedroom game up!), she is going to suddenly be willing to cook you dinner, and extremely happy and girlish to be doing so. And the 5% of the time she holds firm... good, take-out food is yummy! Perhaps you ought to use your just-freed-up night to go game some additional chicks, too -- just in case this one doesn't come around (IME, they can sense when you are doing that, and come around soon after. You have to mean it though... I legitimately do not want to be with a chick who cannot do these basic things for me. So if she literally is not going to, then yes, she is getting replaced. But they all do them, and are glad to).

You know with children, they have the saying of "spare the rod, spoil the child." Parents, wanting to be extra nice, spoil their children, but it leads to the children actually being unhappy and unfulfilled. The same thing is happening with women. Men are trying to be these sensitive allies who avoid putting any pressure or expectations on women, and chicks end up unfulfilled. People don't want to be doing nothing with their lives. They want to be USEFUL to someone, and IMPORTANT.

You can give her that, and give her the best relationship of her life.

Chase

Incredible reply!! This was exactly what I needed. Appreciate you taking the time and writing this @Chase. You the man!!!

 

[King]

We do live in a pretty unstable time when it comes to the messages guys and girls get about who they should strive to be.

But I agree with @Chase that frame control is most of what determines how well you can do with a woman in a relationship. As much as there are young girls running around thinking they don't need men, there are so many dudes around with zero frame control. So much that it's hard to tell which one came first. So it's really two sides of the same coin.

Problem is society tells guys that having frame control is bad, it's 'controlling' and 'manipulative' and 'mansplaining' or whatever nonsense terms they come up with. But the reality is that girls respond to it very well, it's built into their adaptive psychology to mold themselves to the desires of the man they love, and when you do it with finesse she becomes a real trooper and loves to get affirmation and attention and rewards for doing things well.

But guys never seem to require anything of women these days. They just sort of exist there alongside her and hope things go well. They don't think of how the words they say hint to her at what they want and need from her. Or how to use a little bit of pressure to steer her in the right direction, or how to see when something undesirable is building up and how best to nip it in the bud, or how to 'grandstand' in a way that doesn't annoy her but instead makes her feel motivated and enthusiastic.



The same way that a man needs the right challenges in his life to develop him into what he needs to become, and suffers and aches for lack if it, a woman feels the same for the lack of a man with a strong will and the ability to impart the enthusiasm in others to fulfill it.

Thank you for your reply @Will_V, will think a lot about both the replies I've received from you two. Appreciate y'all.