re-engage very apologetic girl, after flake? WWYD?

[lao che]

from this FR: https://boards.girlschase.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10824

though it's not necessary to read it. long story short, arranged to pick her up from near her home to come my place to prep food together. she didn't show. 10min after the meet time a short SMS exchange -

her: i am sorry. i'm not at home now. will come back 1 hour later.

me: [my address] let me know when you're near (so far so good. i'm not showing annoyance, i'm leaving a window open, and i'm not losing frame. she can come to me now, that's all)

her: before dinner

me: u said 1 hour. i didn't eat yet but you better hurry. (weak. should have ignored all further texts)

her: i come back, you can eat something. (i think this means she's gone home. not sure, though, so ... i send one more)

me: what's your ETA



ok so this isn't handled well, so far... then, later:


her: maybe i made you angry. i am so sorry.

me: cool

her: sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,

me: forget about it. enjoy your day


then comes a barrage of SMS/IM messages, she sent both to ensure i got them. asked what i'm doing in the evening. i told her working till 8.15.

her: i would be honored to have a date with you after 8.15

me: (at 8.30ish) i guess you can come over.

her: but i don't know the way

me: you got the address already [my address]

her: hmm you are bad friend



obv she doesn't come. later that evening (11ish)

her: ok it's really my fault.

me: (40 mins later) no big deal

then over the course of the next hour (i'm paraphrasing now):

her: you're a bad man.
her: i'm really sad.
her: broken-hearted.
her: if i can't find someone i want to marry.
her: i am a slow person, you know slow people are emotional so now i'm very sad.
her: i tell you my secret. i always wanted love everyday, hold hands, hug each other give each other warmth, just simple like that.
her: i hate a man, who clearly promises to give me happiness, so easily abandons me now (i guess she's talking about me ignoring her messages, i definitely didn't give her any promises though, besides a delicious meal).
her: can you help me give him a black eye?
her: i have to hurry and find a person who can stay with me for a lifetime, then i'll be very happy very happy very happy.
her: now i'm trying to save money to travel, to learn to become a better person but also to meet a better man.
her: you are here, i can only say a secret friend. so i tell you this, i'm going to give myself time to heal and be stronger to face the things in life.
her: bad friend doesn't talk to me. ho hum ho hum ...
her: now i can't sleep
her: hi ...?



so i think my biggest mistake here was inviting her to my place directly, i should have met her outside another time first. there's no wiggle room. after the flake my only option was to move forward, i.e she must now come directly to my place .... anyway i feel a bit one-itis-y about this girl so i know i'm reading into her words rather than looking at her actions. if she was interested she wouldn't have flaked in the first place (although the amount she has invested might be throwing me off). i guess i could have met her another day .. or met her outside after i finished my work but that would have been low value after the preceding events.

anyway, this was two days ago, i expected a "hello" yesterday morning or night but neither came.


ho hum


EDIT: my usual response might be "well, i'm sure you'll think of a way to make it up to me .." but i dunno if that's ...... putting too much emphasis on the fact that she slighted me. like i'm saying "you disrespected me so you have to make it up" when beforehand i basically dismissed it as NBD. does that make sense?

 

[ray_zorse]

I think you might be overthinking this, she's clearly pretty keen, but you might be in a bit of a pickle now because having been a complete a-hole if you now suddenly go "hey can I hang out with you?" it would be a bit incongruent. What if you make up some sort of excuse... "hey a shit ton of work hit me, i have a bit more time now...hbu, got plans for the next few days?"... as a general rule I think if your fundamentals are okay and you're keeping in mind the broad principles of seduction you can also be a bit of a nice guy and get away with it... like after the flake I think you got a bit butthurt, you could've just gone and picked her up as she clearly wanted. But also I think you're on the money about the easy-date proposal being a bit much for her, my impression is Chinese girls want careful handling.
Ray

 

[Chase]

Lao Che-

- Phone call
- Lao Che: "Heeeey, what's going on?"
- Girl: "I thought you were so mad at me"
- Lao Che: "No, no, don't be silly. I just had a bunch of phone calls I had to be on for work."
- Girl: "Ohhh, okay"
- Lao Che: "So what's the word?"
- Girl: "Do you hate me now? Do you still want to meet me?"
- Lao Che: "Yeah, sure. I'd love to see you, though I don't want to sit outside forever "
- Girl: "I'm sorry, I will not be late this time"
- Lao Che: "Okay... cool. Pick you up at XYZ spot?"
- Girl: "Yes"
- Lao Che: "What time - 30 minutes from now? 45?"
- Girl: "30 minutes is good"
- Lao Che: "I will see you in 30 minutes"

When she goes this far into apologizing and explaining herself, she will invariably be early for the next meeting, not late, and you will typically shag her minutes into the date - don't even bother with dinner unless you're just starving and need to eat first.

There's a big value differential at play here. You see it most often when you're traveling and you're the sexy, exotic foreigner, although can also see it if you come across like someone with celebrity value in your home country: DJ, writer, successful entrepreneur, etc.

Chase

 

[lao che]

thanks for replies ...

i've been doing so well lately it's almost got to the point where i expect girls to show up at my door carrying beer and come right in and get down to business. not really, but you get my point. this girl needed a bit more comfort, i think, and i didn't calibrate well.

i'm definitely over-thinking it - i don't think i've ever been stood-up before! i was honestly shocked, i had no idea how to respond. but i wasn't angry i just went and ran some errands and waited a little while.

after i sent my address the second time, in the evening, i expected her to reply "can you come and get me?" but i wasn't gonna do that after she no-showed the first time. i would offer to meet and pay for the taxi, though .. anyway never got that far.


hmmm ... i'll give her a call, see what happens.

this whole thing reminds me of the very first girl (in fact the only girl) who played me hard, and the reason i discovered pickup in the first place.

 

[lao che]

just spent 90 minutes writing FR and then lost it after i pushed send. internet crapped out and ..

long story short. followed your advice and contacted her. she offered to be my assistant next time i cooked. we agreed to meet today. i brought her to my place. very difficult to sex it up though lots of kino. stilted coversation, she was reluctant to talk or make eye contact. we cooked together. it was overall pretty bad, but any date that doesn't end with my jizz on her face is terrible - maybe i'm being too harsh on myself.
she's really young. smoking hot. ridiculousy hot. i was pretty gropey, she didn't seem to mind but would never let me kiss her.
she did the dishes.
i picked her up by her ass at one point, spanked her. wow!@!! her short jean shorts rode right up i checked it out in the mirror. what an ass.
she would not kiss, would not let me escalate physically, would not talk much.
i took her home...... i suggested we meet again this evening, told her call me after her dinner with friend and my work. she said yes. i don't think she'll call

 

[lao che]

to be honest my recent failures have hit me a little hard. not too bad, but caused me to introspect a little. i've definitely got some inner game issues, still.
i thought this girl was "out of my league", and it probably came across in my vibe. even though i was not as bad as i think, maybe. she's way hotter than i realized first time we met. i was stunned when she rocked up with tiny hot pants and high heels

anyway, i had a regular FB come over last night. give me a oil massage with her big-boobs.
now, i'm sexy as fuck, i'm a sexy guy, with that girl last night, and every other girl, pretty much (even the rapey girl, i know she was turned on by my sexy vibe) - except this girl in the report. why?
i was thinking and analyzing last night, while i was busy with big-boobs, trying to memorize the things i say and do to escalate with her.
my conclusion was that it wasn't much different, either with hot girl or big-boobs. the difference was all the other girls were willing participants. they were along for the ride. complicit in the seduction. even though they may require plausible deniability, they may put up token resistance, but there is no doubt we both have the same goal in mind.

so i've been mulling this over the last couple days. i realize many small mistakes i made. non of which, by themselves, are too bad, but compounded together might have been enough to hit my value enough for her to lose attraction. definitely some small frame grabs which i let slide, and i'm sure i rewarded some "bad behaviour", along with some negative compliance ladders, (or whatever it's called)

i dunno... though she did contact me that night -

her: what are you doing?

me: shaving my balls. you?

her: eating in bed

me: require photographic evidence. (this is wishful thinking, she's not sent me a single pic yet)

her: [sends pic - she must be sitting cross-legged on the bed, we can see her room, with her knee and i bit of thigh and calf]

me: not bad. more leg next time

her: [shaking head animation]

me: [chimp pulling dogs tail gif]

her: [tongue sticking out smiley]

me: that's you. i'm the dog

her: that's you man

me: what are you eating

her: ice cream and fried rice

me: that's crazy. i can't believe that

her: why you can't believe?

me: fried rice and ice-cream??

her: yes

me: photographic evidence. make sure you get a bit more leg in the picture

her: no photo


i throw my phone away and watch a movie, pass out. when i wake an our later there's another pic. ice cream and some knee.

her: delicious.. ... i just went out found 10 dollars in the street lucky me.


so she's more compliant now than before. there's no doubt where i'm coming from and she hasn't got cold feet. i dunno. advice welcome. esp advice relating to dealing with girls who are not along for the ride with you. or changing up my game somewhat, to take account of difficult seductions

 

[Chase]

Nice job following up and getting her over, Lao Che.

You can't lay every girl the first date, or the first time at your place, or anything. Always exceptions. In a perfect world, if you ran perfect game, and connected with her perfectly, and knew exactly what her deal was and how to put her completely at ease, you definitely could, but mistakes creep in, you mess up, you find yourself with a girl who's a little cagey and repressed, and the road gets bumpy.

What you do from there depends on what your read on the situation is and how willing you are to continue to pursue. I've had girls I've had come to my place 3 to 5 times before sex happens (with us going as far as I could go each time). Don't really do that anymore, but when I was learning it used to happen sometimes. I think it can be a good mentality to adopt, at least until you're fairly advanced or so, to say, "So long as she'll keep coming over and keep letting me fool around with her a LITTLE bit, I'll keep inviting her and trying different angles to see if I can figure out what works or get her comfortable enough for something to work."

This isn't necessarily correlated to hotness, either. You'll get girls who are "meh" who will pull this stuff, and stunning girls who will come home with you on a day game insta-date and sleep with you right then. Just seems to be a "her vibe and your vibe + whatever else she's got going on" thing. The more electric the vibe between you, the easier it is; or if you happen to meet a girl who just doesn't have any major reservations about sex and you're able to lead her somewhere private, even if the vibe isn't really there, it can happen then and there too.

The cagier ones just require trying out different angles + persistence... if you're up for it.

Assuming you get her over again, I'd try more stuff like:

- Ordering her around to build up compliance (start with small stuff, increase to bigger and bigger things)
- Get her under the covers with you and watch a movie that way; escalate under the covers
- Have her give you a massage, and take your shirt off; then give her a massage... have her take her shirt and bra off and lie face down at first
- Start a pillow fight and throw her on the bed
- If it gets hotter and you can tell she's into it yet you've hit a wall... can always just pull your cock out

etc.

View it as an opportunity to experiment with stuff you maybe wouldn't normally do your first time pulling a girl back to your place, and you might even find something you really like and incorporate into your usual repertoire.

Chase

 

[lao che]

thanks chase,

outcome dependence was definitely a factor here (EDIT: but it wouldn't have been, if there was some cooperation in the seduction) - i really wanted to see her naked. in fact, i wanted her to want me, is what it was. i cared, wanted her to like me.
but i didn't need to fuck her that same day. i'm totally down with waiting, if she's digging the seduction. if we were making out and i put her hand on my dick and she stopped me. cool. or aything. at all. she didn't give much to work with and i just kept trying. it was like trying to seduce a rock. i definitely played it badly though. i should have backed way off. many mistakes because it wasn't going according to plan, and i didn't have a backup. i'm actually embarrassed writing about it. but at least i made sure to not put myself in the friendzone. lol

she was very resistant to any deep diving. many issues were of topic. she wouldn't hold my eye. but not in a playful way. i challenged her to EC and she just said no, refused to play.

i dragged her legs up, made her sit sideways on the sofa, facing me, legs crossed. and motioned her to put her hands together out in front, like me, then played slaps. she was genuinely surprised when i slapped her hand, laughed and tried to hit me back. i told her winner can ask any question and the other has to tell the truth. she stopped playing. said there was nothing she wanted to know about me. if i wanted to know something i can ask. but so many subjects taboo. we'd already spent a while together by this time, plenty of touching etc.
at one point i had the thought that she was avoiding EC and deep-diving because she knew she would wanna fuck me. like she's thinking - this guy's good. he's sexy. if i'm not careful i might be powerless to resist him
but that might just be my ego fucking with me. is that even a thing that she could be thinking?

i decided if nothing else i'd just up the touching, see what happens. i sat behind her with her in between my legs, pulled her back into me, head leaning on my chest. she accepted it, but without emotion. i was breathing on her ears and neck. plenty of times i was touching her thighs, inside and out, but again she was just non-plussed about it. if i tried to go further, like up the back of the shirt or right between her legs, she would swat my hand away.
one time i was next to her on the sofa, hand in hand, just stroking her palm with my finger, her hand in mine with mine on her upper thigh. it was the first time i felt at least a little bit of sexiness. no reaction.
i left her alone several times, and always made sure she had an escape, like she was between me and the door, so she could have left anytime.

later on i left her and went through to the balcony, i was gonna wait and see if she comes through. but after 5 minutes i got bored and called her and to my surprise she came immediately. i welcomed her with my arm open, she came into my embrace and we stayed there for a minute. but when i tried to sexy-up the interaction she turned away a little bit grumpy. probably had enough of my wandering hands. i called her back and had her help my fold my laundry instead. then we put stuff away and i picked her up and threw her onto the bed (placed her gently). she didn't take it too kindly. that might have been the moment to start a pillow fight ...


edit: by the way, chase, you were half right -

When she goes this far into apologizing and explaining herself, she will invariably be early for the next meeting, not late, and you will typically shag her minutes into the date

15 min before the scheduled time she texts -

"i'm ready. do you want to come and get me?"

"are you wearing your prettiest dress?"

"i think it's the prettiest"

"then i'll see you soon"

i was so sure it was on ... i tried as soon as we got back, i wasn't dilly-dallying ,-)

 

[ray_zorse]

I want to categorize this into a girl who's very attracted hence extremely shy and compliant, and gives totally boring answers / resists deep dive because she's nervous and doesn't want to fuck things up. These cases can be pretty hard to pick. I think I had one recently, the date seemed to go pretty badly, couldn't get anything out of her of any interest whatsoever. I asked about her career -- she's happy working in her office job as a legal secretary -- no career plans or any real plans for the future -- no holiday plans -- no hobbies to speak of, or interests -- does nothing on the weekends but play a tetris-like game on her phone -- lives with parents -- no plans to move... et cetera... tried to kiss her on the cheek in saying goodbye, which she rejected and then she left... thought I'd never hear from her again, but to my surprise she texted me later to say she'd had a good time... so I reprimanded her a bit "I'm glad of that, but I must say I found it to be hard work... if we meet again, could you put a little more effort in... like, ask a question, or tell me something interesting about yourself... have you done much dating?"... she was down to meet again and by this time I'd clued onto the situation so I started to escalate and isolate like a boss, FU'd but that's another story. I'm pretty sure you might be dealing with something similar. The brushing your hand off, etc, could be down to shyness, don't forget that inexperienced girls view a seduction as basically a series of dates in which both show their commitment, MAYBE followed by intimacy.

On the other hand, if there are limits to her compliance and you feel she's brushing you off / derailing your attempts to get to know her, rather than just being shy and nervous, then it could well be something else, like she may be shit testing you a bit, or she may just be very boring and unreactive, or she may be good at playing a role like this to get guys to chase. I suppose if she's good looking she could pretty much act like a rock and a lot of people (girls and guys) would still like her. I dunno really. At the end of the day, girls are hard to read, so the advice here is basically just escalate and see what happens. I can't really fault how you carried this out, it's difficult to tell if moving slower, or moving faster, or moving differently, might have won the day here, or perhaps date compression might have been the ticket, since she's clearly quite inexperienced?

I very much like the sound of how you were sitting with your hot breath on her neck and ear, if anything was going to crack her open this would probably be it. You could try some other stuff along the same lines, just in case her neck and ear aren't her favourite erogenous zones, but I find they almost always are. The other thing I would recommend in this scenario, and which I think might have made the difference here, is to give her some jobs to do, to get her involved in the escalation... I particularly like having my nipples played with, so if I feel she's not getting involved with the escalation (but is letting it happen), I'll order her to unbutton my shirt... and then I'll have her put her hand on my stomach, if this goes well I'll give further orders until she's playing with my body. I find this sort of reverse escalation to be extremely powerful, it does not seem to be documented in any seduction resources I've seen? It seems to do a lot of good things, (a) acts as a chase frame because she's escalating on you, (b) gives her something to do, to distract her from any bad thoughts, (c) builds compliance / establishes you as a guy who makes things happen, (d) gets your rocks off in the way you want.

Is she still communicating?

Ray

 

[lao che]

thanks ray, that's the prognosis i'm going with until i know different. she is still talking, yes.

i've had shy inexperienced girls before - love it. this one is just so different. she really doesn't seem to wanna be there. that's where the inner game stuff came in. i thought "if i can't offer her good conversation and she's not down to fuck then what have i got to offer her? i'm just a creepy old dude crawling all over her. why is she here?" i mean it's not like i'm buying her expensive shit, fancy dinners and whatnot, driving around in my sports car. why would she be there?

i did plenty of the putting-her-hand-on-me. it was all just like limp-handed letting me do it. i never had a boner at any time so there would have been no point in going down there. and if i did have a boner it would have been weird, inappropriate, due to the vibe not being sexy between us.

i'm sure she'll chat tonight. she told me her schedule changed so she finishes earlier, and she's free on friday. which, from any other girl, is an invitation for something.


re: date compression - we didn't go straight to my place. stopped off at the market to buy some things, flirted with the old egg-lady and the fruit-lady, good vibe. stopped at a convenience store for some other stuff.

 

[ray_zorse]

I think it's good to use touch in a more nuanced way, in my opinion one of the most valuable parts of Chase's ebook (How to Make Girls Chase) is the section on actually making girls chase. It's also one of the most difficult to implement, I'm still not really there yet, although having occasional flashes of brilliance and I think well on the way. In the early parts of the book Chase recommends that an aspiring seducer get used to using A LOT of touch, and to touch EARLY and OFTEN. I certainly do this!

It's often quite surprising to both the girl herself and the people around me, just how early and often I'm touching (especially as I like Asian girls). For example a conversation on the train last week: I asked the two girls what they're up to, the one (further from me) said she's moving house, turns out she's moving to near me. The other girl was there to help her move. So I reached out (I'm in a seat on the train, they're standing near the door), squeeze her shoulder muscle and say "is she strong?" ... this is one of my favourite manoeuvres, they looked surprised, but they're always down if it's done in a confident way.

On the other hand... in the mid-to-late stages of a seduction, too much touch can really harm you. It cheapens your touch, and as you say, can project the "sleazy old man" vibe. Similarly to when you go for the pants rather than the tits... using a bit less touch can be unexpected and therefore bypass some defenses. Using a lot of sexual vibe can really make up for the lesser amount of touch... try strong strong eye contact, sexy voice and facial expressions... I've found these help me a lot more than just piling on the touch. Franco describes dialing up the sexual vibe so intensely that they were literally dying for his touch.

Especially if you feel they're on the fence about you, as this one probably is/was, or really, just if she's not investing with touch herself... it's wise to ramp it back somewhat, at least until you make your move (such as a manhandle kiss or whatever)... in this case I don't think it's a mater of "more = better", it's good to acclimatize her to your touch, but you also have to treat your touch as a reward. Don't forget also your bored vibe, your body positioning (turning about 10 degrees towards her for every 5 minutes that she talks about something interesting and valuable, and turning away if it tails off)... the touch is a kind of natural extension of this, further reward when she has your interest and most of your body. Also you should be touching on high points rather than just all the time.

About the putting-her-hand-on-you, it's not really the same as ordering her to do it. See the reasons I gave: (a) acts as a chase frame because she's escalating on you, (b) gives her something to do, to distract her from any bad thoughts, (c) builds compliance / establishes you as a guy who makes things happen, (d) gets your rocks off in the way you want... these don't apply, or only apply weakly, if you have to actually put her hand on you... then she has the option of just leaving it there limply as you described. Much better that you order her to do it, and she complies. If she won't comply... well, maybe rotate down to a lesser compliance request... or use an elastic-band strategy (rotate down to virtually disengaging and only build up slowly again)... or whatever, you have plenty of technology at your disposal to handle non-compliance, but she needs to actually escalate on you herself. Well, I guess it's not a "one-size-fits-all" technique, but I've found it very helpful in cases where it was just not moving along, and I felt that my investment level was too high compared with hers. So I made her invest.

About date-compression, it means taking her on multiple dates... like say 3~5 dates... so that she has no logical reason to say "well I can't sleep with him because it's only the 1st, 2nd, whatever, date"... the trick is to not invest too much, like just meet her for coffee for 20 minutes during the day (when there's no possibility of intimacy taking place), it isn't a big amount of investment on your part, and with a certain type of girl it helps to put her at ease. It may also put you in boyfriend territory, but with some girls you're in boyfriend territory by default, the other way you can get there is by moving too slow or whatever. If you're in boyfriend territory there's nothing to lose by date compression if you really like the girl. Although I'm questioning what's to like about this girl other than her looks?

Ray

 

[Sub-Zero]

Nice job following up and getting her over, Lao Che.

You can't lay every girl the first date, or the first time at your place, or anything. Always exceptions. In a perfect world, if you ran perfect game, and connected with her perfectly, and knew exactly what her deal was and how to put her completely at ease, you definitely could, but mistakes creep in, you mess up, you find yourself with a girl who's a little cagey and repressed, and the road gets bumpy.

What you do from there depends on what your read on the situation is and how willing you are to continue to pursue. I've had girls I've had come to my place 3 to 5 times before sex happens (with us going as far as I could go each time). Don't really do that anymore, but when I was learning it used to happen sometimes. I think it can be a good mentality to adopt, at least until you're fairly advanced or so, to say, "So long as she'll keep coming over and keep letting me fool around with her a LITTLE bit, I'll keep inviting her and trying different angles to see if I can figure out what works or get her comfortable enough for something to work."

This isn't necessarily correlated to hotness, either. You'll get girls who are "meh" who will pull this stuff, and stunning girls who will come home with you on a day game insta-date and sleep with you right then. Just seems to be a "her vibe and your vibe + whatever else she's got going on" thing. The more electric the vibe between you, the easier it is; or if you happen to meet a girl who just doesn't have any major reservations about sex and you're able to lead her somewhere private, even if the vibe isn't really there, it can happen then and there too.

The cagier ones just require trying out different angles + persistence... if you're up for it.

Assuming you get her over again, I'd try more stuff like:

- Ordering her around to build up compliance (start with small stuff, increase to bigger and bigger things)
- Get her under the covers with you and watch a movie that way; escalate under the covers
- Have her give you a massage, and take your shirt off; then give her a massage... have her take her shirt and bra off and lie face down at first
- Start a pillow fight and throw her on the bed
- If it gets hotter and you can tell she's into it yet you've hit a wall... can always just pull your cock out

etc.

View it as an opportunity to experiment with stuff you maybe wouldn't normally do your first time pulling a girl back to your place, and you might even find something you really like and incorporate into your usual repertoire.

Chase

Chase I'm confused, I thought you said if you don't sleep with a girl the first night that chances go down, and you can't sleep with them after that.

Here you make it sound like it's something more common.

So how did you get girls to come over, or how do you go over to girl's houses after a failed mating attempt?

And you said girls came over your house 3 to 5 times.
What can I do to get girls to come back to your house or get back to theirs? Because right now if I don't sleep with a girl the first time, there not coming back.

I try to escalate hard, and they never act repulsed, they just give up excuses to not look like a hoe, we leave on good terms, but I never get the second time.

I even read about you saying that if you're not going to seal the deal, then don't make a move, I've done that, and no second date at the crib.

Appreciate the help.

 

[ray_zorse]

The difference is basically if your game was good, you moved decisively and calibrated to her and persisted without chasing, and most importantly, remained alert to any escalation windows... then, she would have slept with you if she was okay with sex on first date... but some girls are very guarded about this, firm logical rules that they stick to, plus never putting themselves in situations where they might weaken (your hand on her pussy being one)... as opposed to, moved too slow, attraction expired... or missed window... or similar FU... then she politely agrees, "yes, we must do this again sometime" but never follows up. Just try to sleep with her on first date, approach lots of women and get as much practice as possible, you'll be golden.
Ray

 

[lao che]

Ray, you're giving solid advice for how to touch and escalate, no doubt.
What I'm not sure is clear is that... I know how to touch a girl, I know how to sex up the vibe... I'm a sexy guy, pretty much with everyone, although this girl.. if I'm honest, doesn't seem interested.
So I guess What I need to know is how to seduce a girl who doesn't want to be seduced.

Which is asking a lot, I suppose. But if a girl won't hold EC, always turns her face away， moves sideways so she isn't face to face... I mean, the 'piling on the touch' was kind of the last act of a desperate man.

''Although I'm questioning what's to like about this girl other than her looks?''

This is fair comment. Looks-wise she is exactly my ideal. And I've never fucked a girl looks like this. Well, some BK hookers but that's about it.
And, yeah, it's completely my ego, I wanna fuck her. Well, i want her to want me so now the frame is all wrong, no doubt she's the prize here.

She's a lovely girl, soft spoken and sweet but apart from that... Well it's easy to find things you like about a girl who digs you. But if she won't let me find out those things it becomes a lot harder.
I forget who said ''guys like a girl who likes him''. I think that's harsh but true.
So the question remains, what is she doing there?

Date compression, as I understand it, means doing several things in a shorter space of time e.g
Coffee, walk, bar, eat something etc all in the same afternoon or evening so it feels like she's experienced more time with you than she actually has. I'm kind of out of ideas here as I can see me getting slotted into orbiter territory. In fact I can see now how guys would get themselves put there, almost like they want it.
I can see me arranging dates with her, which end with me frustrated and horny. Well I'm not gonna let that happen of course but, at one time, long ago...

 

[Chase]

@ Sub-Zero-

Chase I'm confused, I thought you said if you don't sleep with a girl the first night that chances go down, and you can't sleep with them after that.

Here you make it sound like it's something more common.

So how did you get girls to come over, or how do you go over to girl's houses after a failed mating attempt?

Talking in generalities, not absolutes.

There's no surefire way to get a girl back over if you've tried to sleep with her once and it fell through. It will depend on the girl, how she feels about you, and particularly how the last session ended.

If you ended it graciously after trying to sleep with her and her excusing herself, and it was not awkward, and she was laughing and having fun and clearly still liked you, sometimes she'll see you again. Sometimes not.

I don't think it's common a girl will see you again (at least in private) once you've tried to sleep with her and not succeeded... maybe 15%? 20%?

It only happens if a.) she really likes you, feels like there's a great connection, and thinks she probably DOES want to sleep with you, and b.) you didn't end things weird or awkward or needy the last time.

The rest of the time though, your goose will generally be cooked.

So yeah, if you can sleep with her on the first date, that's definitely better.

If not, just avoid bringing her to your place altogether.

I even read about you saying that if you're not going to seal the deal, then don't make a move, I've done that, and no second date at the crib.

If you're not going to seal the deal, better not to invite her to your place at all. Use a different date template instead, and use date compression.


@ Lao Che-

So I guess What I need to know is how to seduce a girl who doesn't want to be seduced.

Which is asking a lot, I suppose. But if a girl won't hold EC, always turns her face away， moves sideways so she isn't face to face... I mean, the 'piling on the touch' was kind of the last act of a desperate man.

You don't have to kiss her on her mouth. Have you tried kissing her on her cheek... neck... shoulder? Just little pecks. Just here and there. Just to warm her up to the feeling of your lips on her body. Then return to normal conversation as if nothing happened. Then another peck. Then normal conversation. Then another peck. Normal conversation.

She'll either get totally weirded out and leave (if she isn't into you), or increasingly aroused and receptive (if she is into you).

Make sure you've made it clear why you enjoy her company and her conversation before you start doing this - you want it to be obvious that you approve of her for reasons she can get behind, and then start rewarding her for it with kisses and affection.

Chase

 

[Kaelos]

You don't have to kiss her on her mouth. Have you tried kissing her on her cheek... neck... shoulder? Just little pecks. Just here and there. Just to warm her up to the feeling of your lips on her body. Then return to normal conversation as if nothing happened. Then another peck. Then normal conversation. Then another peck. Normal conversation. She'll either get totally weirded out and leave (if she isn't into you), or increasingly aroused and receptive (if she is into you). Make sure you've made it clear why you enjoy her company and her conversation before you start doing this - you want it to be obvious that you approve of her for reasons she can get behind, and then start rewarding her for it with kisses and affection.

Chase, is this the Sexual Kiss Transition? I was always curious about a real world example of a Sexual Kiss Transition.

 

[Chase]

Kaelos-

Chase, is this the Sexual Kiss Transition? I was always curious about a real world example of a Sexual Kiss Transition.

Could be part of the build-up to it / part of the transition in, though not necessarily, and only if this gets her riled up. A sexual kiss transition relies on heavy sexual tension build up / electricity in the air... and then you just grab her and dive into a deep, sloppy makeout, grabbing her all over, putting her hands on you and having her grab you all over, wall-slamming her, tearing each others' clothes off, etc.

Sometimes with this one at some point if she's breathing really heavy and I've fingered her a bit, and I think she'll be into it, I might spin her around and push her front against the wall while fingering her from behind, and then pull her pants down or skirt up from behind... just really sexual, really primal, it's just the two of you, and you're fucking. Not making love, not getting it on, nothing nearly that nice. It's just raw sex, a man mounting a woman, because she wants it from you and you want to give it to her.

Loads of fun, but tough to pull off consistently on first lays. Easier to do with girlfriends you've already been seeing a little while. Though makes for some pretty incredible experiences (and memories) when you pull it off your first time with a girl. She'll remember it forever, and so will you.

Chase

 

[lao che]

this girl's a lost cause. i'm gonna back out as gracefully as i can. nothing particularly 'bad' happened. just less and less investment via text. she's clearly not interested. i can't in good conscience keep throwing out crumbs if she's not gonna pick them up.