Regarding Tactics

[happynanako]

I am curious, how many guys here have managed to secure a relationship through tactics?
How long did this relationship last?

How many guys here have not used any tactics yet and secured a relationship?

 

[ulrich]

You mean like all tactics, no skills?

 

[Will_V]

I don't know what you mean by tactics, or at what stage of the relationship you mean. But in my longest LTR (ended after 2 years) it started during the time I was reading many of Chase's articles on relationship management, and I used them to very good effect. She's a very strong personality, ambitious, eldest child from a very female-dominated household and it took plenty of management to keep things going well. Especially she was very bad at communicating when she was upset, and expected to be comforted when she was angry. So it was a lesson for me in balancing frame control and emotional availability.

Personally though, I take every effort to avoid thinking of what I do with women as 'tactics'. If something I do works, I try to reshape my own reality to make it a natural part of me, after all that's what I think I'm here for, to become 'what works'. Otherwise, is the 'real me' something disfunctional? That's how I look at things.

Anyway, without clarification on what you mean exactly, it's hard to be specific.

 

[Alpha13SC]

I don't know what you mean by tactics, or at what stage of the relationship you mean. But in my longest LTR (ended after 2 years) it started during the time I was reading many of Chase's articles on relationship management, and I used them to very good effect. She's a very strong personality, ambitious, eldest child from a very female-dominated household and it took plenty of management to keep things going well. Especially she was very bad at communicating when she was upset, and expected to be comforted when she was angry. So it was a lesson for me in balancing frame control and emotional availability.

Personally though, I take every effort to avoid thinking of what I do with women as 'tactics'. If something I do works, I try to reshape my own reality to make it a natural part of me, after all that's what I think I'm here for, to become 'what works'. Otherwise, is the 'real me' something disfunctional? That's how I look at things.

Anyway, without clarification on what you mean exactly, it's hard to be specific.

I'm interested in how you approach the situation when she wanted to be comforted while being angry.

 

[Will_V]

I'm interested in how you approach the situation when she wanted to be comforted while being angry.

So this was a great girl, full of energy, very sexy and great fun in bed, but a bit of a handful when she got emotional. And she would sometimes get very wound up about something and try to force me to give her attention by seizing the frame like a tiger and trying to get me to 'comply' with her demands, which weren't all that clear.

One time in particular, when we went on a sailing trip I didn't bring something it turned out we needed, and when we got back she went beserk, shouting aggressively. Even though I took complete responsibility, any comment I made on her attitude she considered to be me 'turning it on her'.

Obviously this is typical relationship shit-testing, especially since I was self-employed at the time and not doing all that great, and my frame was shall we say 'under development', but I'm guessing it was on a different level to what most guys deal with. I could see in the family dynamic that her father was very easygoing, dominated by her mother, and protective of his daughter, and her mother a very strong personality and there was always friction and drama with her daughter that you could never tell if it was good or bad. This isn't the best type of upbringing to find a girlfriend with, I believe it causes her to have a bad sense of boundaries, but that said, they are all very good people and her parents together since they were young, so she was brought up with some good values about family and relationships in general.

Anyway, so a few times I didn't deal well with her behaviour, and it got worse. Until one time, I threw her out on the street (she was living with me) when she was so confrontational I thought she would get physical. I'd already told her (at a different time when she asked curiously what would cause me to end a relationship) that a woman hitting me was one of the things that would automatically end things, because I was not interested in either retaliating or accepting it. And I meant it. So it was partly to save her from herself and give her a chance to see what it would be like if she pissed me off too much, without it being the end of things.

This was something I had read about in one of Chase's articles, and it made sense. I don't know if that was the right move, it wasn't easy for either of us, but I think the results were in its favor. She definitely behaved afterward as if there were limits on what she could do, no matter how much she wanted to vent. And she regularly alluded to my 'strong personality' in positive ways afterward.

But while this was a good way to set hard boundaries, the main problem was that she expected a lot of attention when something upset her, regardless of her behavior. The simplest thing I did was to not give her that attention - while telling her how she could get it. I would calmly tell her that I wasn't going to get into a shouting match with her, that I wanted to hear her out but we could talk about it when she calmed down, and then I'd go and do something else and ignore her.

This way of verbally clarifying and then acting on a principle, rather than just getting into an escalating competition, is something Chase often talks about in articles, and it's an extremely good method because it isn't cold (you tell her clearly why it is the case) but it is very firm. It worked wonders. When she saw me set a clear frame and then walk off she would lose steam very quickly and start floundering around trying to negotiate for my attention. She would even keep stomping past me grumbling about how I 'always do X with her' trying to get my attention again.

Another thing I learned from Chase is to always make sure you understand what the problem is (by getting her to clarify it to you, and helping her to clarify it, and actually trying to understand it) before trying to bring up anything she did wrong. It's something Jordan Peterson deserves a mention for as well, I was watching a lot of his stuff at the time as I tried to develop my internal frame and he talks about this in a very articulate way. This is very good for giving her the feeling that I am looking out for her wellbeing rather than simply trying to be dominant. Some girls, like this one, become angry and kind of vicious when they feel scorned in any way, and it's important to avoid putting her in that state by bringing out a problem and dealing with it before it becomes a storm. It took some patience because I have a short temper and sometimes I just wanted to come down hard on her.

I tried a lot of methods with this girl, which all essentially boil down to setting a frame in which both out needs were met, clarifying it to her, and sticking to it no matter what. And when I did that well, it worked spectacularly.

One last thing that looking back was extremely effective, and probably my biggest failure in the relationship, was to reward her when she behaved well. Like many guys I took her for granted a bit when she did nice things for me, when I should have stamped in her mind that it was exactly what I valued from her. I really wish I had done this better, since she was very hungry for validation, and when things were good between us, she was a wonderful woman. Very diligent and responsible, enthusiastic, adventurous and always game to try a new experience with me. I think I could have avoided some bad episodes just by making sure I met her needs better when things were going well.

She still calls or messages me every once in a while and wants to get back with me, but I think our personalities don't mesh together well enough, which is what caused things to end.

Interestingly, I heard that she recently dumped a guy who got very reactive when she shit tested him and responded with a nasty insult, really hurting her. So that's kind of the opposite of everything I've mentioned here, and something that I think doesn't work especially with this kind of girl, since she has a lot of pride.

That's about all I can think of. In this relationship, it was very much me trying to learn fast, and manage things consciously and with my eyes open. I've always liked women who have a strong will to get what they want, the kind who don't settle or submit easily, but I didn't always know how to deal with them, and the main thing I value from Girls Chase is not just helping me build a great frame but making me realize how much I enjoy managing them, since they are the best and most satisfying companions when you have their respect.

Hope this was useful!

 

[Alpha13SC]

So this was a great girl, full of energy, very sexy and great fun in bed, but a bit of a handful when she got emotional. And she would sometimes get very wound up about something and try to force me to give her attention by seizing the frame like a tiger and trying to get me to 'comply' with her demands, which weren't all that clear.

One time in particular, when we went on a sailing trip I didn't bring something it turned out we needed, and when we got back she went beserk, shouting aggressively. Even though I took complete responsibility, any comment I made on her attitude she considered to be me 'turning it on her'.

Obviously this is typical relationship shit-testing, especially since I was self-employed at the time and not doing all that great, and my frame was shall we say 'under development', but I'm guessing it was on a different level to what most guys deal with. I could see in the family dynamic that her father was very easygoing, dominated by her mother, and protective of his daughter, and her mother a very strong personality and there was always friction and drama with her daughter that you could never tell if it was good or bad. This isn't the best type of upbringing to find a girlfriend with, I believe it causes her to have a bad sense of boundaries, but that said, they are all very good people and her parents together since they were young, so she was brought up with some good values about family and relationships in general.

Anyway, so a few times I didn't deal well with her behaviour, and it got worse. Until one time, I threw her out on the street (she was living with me) when she was so confrontational I thought she would get physical. I'd already told her (at a different time when she asked curiously what would cause me to end a relationship) that a woman hitting me was one of the things that would automatically end things, because I was not interested in either retaliating or accepting it. And I meant it. So it was partly to save her from herself and give her a chance to see what it would be like if she pissed me off too much, without it being the end of things.

This was something I had read about in one of Chase's articles, and it made sense. I don't know if that was the right move, it wasn't easy for either of us, but I think the results were in its favor. She definitely behaved afterward as if there were limits on what she could do, no matter how much she wanted to vent. And she regularly alluded to my 'strong personality' in positive ways afterward.

But while this was a good way to set hard boundaries, the main problem was that she expected a lot of attention when something upset her, regardless of her behavior. The simplest thing I did was to not give her that attention - while telling her how she could get it. I would calmly tell her that I wasn't going to get into a shouting match with her, that I wanted to hear her out but we could talk about it when she calmed down, and then I'd go and do something else and ignore her.

This way of verbally clarifying and then acting on a principle, rather than just getting into an escalating competition, is something Chase often talks about in articles, and it's an extremely good method because it isn't cold (you tell her clearly why it is the case) but it is very firm. It worked wonders. When she saw me set a clear frame and then walk off she would lose steam very quickly and start floundering around trying to negotiate for my attention. She would even keep stomping past me grumbling about how I 'always do X with her' trying to get my attention again.

Another thing I learned from Chase is to always make sure you understand what the problem is (by getting her to clarify it to you, and helping her to clarify it, and actually trying to understand it) before trying to bring up anything she did wrong. It's something Jordan Peterson deserves a mention for as well, I was watching a lot of his stuff at the time as I tried to develop my internal frame and he talks about this in a very articulate way. This is very good for giving her the feeling that I am looking out for her wellbeing rather than simply trying to be dominant. Some girls, like this one, become angry and kind of vicious when they feel scorned in any way, and it's important to avoid putting her in that state by bringing out a problem and dealing with it before it becomes a storm. It took some patience because I have a short temper and sometimes I just wanted to come down hard on her.

I tried a lot of methods with this girl, which all essentially boil down to setting a frame in which both out needs were met, clarifying it to her, and sticking to it no matter what. And when I did that well, it worked spectacularly.

One last thing that looking back was extremely effective, and probably my biggest failure in the relationship, was to reward her when she behaved well. Like many guys I took her for granted a bit when she did nice things for me, when I should have stamped in her mind that it was exactly what I valued from her. I really wish I had done this better, since she was very hungry for validation, and when things were good between us, she was a wonderful woman. Very diligent and responsible, enthusiastic, adventurous and always game to try a new experience with me. I think I could have avoided some bad episodes just by making sure I met her needs better when things were going well.

She still calls or messages me every once in a while and wants to get back with me, but I think our personalities don't mesh together well enough, which is what caused things to end.

Interestingly, I heard that she recently dumped a guy who got very reactive when she shit tested him and responded with a nasty insult, really hurting her. So that's kind of the opposite of everything I've mentioned here, and something that I think doesn't work especially with this kind of girl, since she has a lot of pride.

That's about all I can think of. In this relationship, it was very much me trying to learn fast, and manage things consciously and with my eyes open. I've always liked women who have a strong will to get what they want, the kind who don't settle or submit easily, but I didn't always know how to deal with them, and the main thing I value from Girls Chase is not just helping me build a great frame but making me realize how much I enjoy managing them, since they are the best and most satisfying companions when you have their respect.

Hope this was useful!

I read all of it and see myself in it, and also my ex in the same behaviour. Strong and ambitious, but so much drama when it appeared. First year I managed it very well. If we had something to bother us, we talked and then after that I always finished with "are we cool now?", but then I went into break up cycle which wasn't very good for me. Second year, after a few bad precedents + being egoistic and your same mistake, not rewarding her good behavior + things that they weren't great in my life somehow affected me. One mistake I've made is that I blame a sad event in my life for not managing some emotional states of mine and hers as well, now I know that I should just accept and take more responsability for whatever comes in my life. In our last months I started to yell as well at (2-3 times actually) and I knew from that point things were pretty bad. When you're down that road, it feels a little bit different to break up.

If only I ve encountered Chase's article about drama, things would be different, or would end different. Somehow, I'm grateful for my mistakes because now I know what to do and what to not do. Learning curve was so big in relationship.

It definitely was useful! Lots of thing we agree and now I internalize them more.
One question: how were you feeling when she became angry, maybe shouting? This thing I still can't cooperate with, even if it was something I was responsable for.

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

I am curious, how many guys here have managed to secure a relationship through tactics?
How long did this relationship last?

How many guys here have not used any tactics yet and secured a relationship?

Sorry Fam, you don't seem to understand relationships or pick up.

Nobody here is "tricking" a girl or using tactics to get and keep a girlfriend.

You can't trick a girl into bed either.

That's an adolescent fantasy, Revenge of the Nerds type thing.

To get a girl interested in a long term relationship, she has to be interested in you sexually at the beginning, and then discover long term things about you that she wants.

Once that happens, the relationship happens because both parties want to spend more time with one another.

If you think a pick up artist with a long term girlfriend or wife is constantly running attraction routines to keep her engaged - you don't understand what's going on.

WIA

 

[Will_V]

I read all of it and see myself in it, and also my ex in the same behaviour. Strong and ambitious, but so much drama when it appeared. First year I managed it very well. If we had something to bother us, we talked and then after that I always finished with "are we cool now?", but then I went into break up cycle which wasn't very good for me. Second year, after a few bad precedents + being egoistic and your same mistake, not rewarding her good behavior + things that they weren't great in my life somehow affected me. One mistake I've made is that I blame a sad event in my life for not managing some emotional states of mine and hers as well, now I know that I should just accept and take more responsability for whatever comes in my life. In our last months I started to yell as well at (2-3 times actually) and I knew from that point things were pretty bad. When you're down that road, it feels a little bit different to break up.

If only I ve encountered Chase's article about drama, things would be different, or would end different. Somehow, I'm grateful for my mistakes because now I know what to do and what to not do. Learning curve was so big in relationship.

It definitely was useful! Lots of thing we agree and now I internalize them more.
One question: how were you feeling when she became angry, maybe shouting? This thing I still can't cooperate with, even if it was something I was responsable for.

Yeah it's tough to deal with a yelling woman. Even though I have a temper, when it boils over I usually feel very cold rather than wanting to yell or anything like that. But I still did feel like giving it back to her.

And one time I did end up in a yelling match with her in the car. The thing is it made me feel so weak, so chaotic emotionally and uncontrolled, I even started saying stuff that I hardly even meant just to get under her skin. And I realized this is how she felt when she was doing it - weak, afraid, desperate. I swore I would never let myself do it again. And I decided that it wasn't actually making her feel better, it wasn't making her stronger, and I shouldn't see it as her really having any frame.

The other thing to remember is: shouting is not a form of physical combat. Anyone can do it, even a woman or child, or a completely irrelevant, weak man. Why then should I take it seriously? And silence is not a form of retreat - if someone is yelling and you ignore them, and they can see that your resolve is only getting stronger, where can they go from there? Every avenue is a defeat.

Really the answer is very simple, you just have to know that you are stronger than her and she is desperate, you have to formulate a clear idea of what you are going to say to her (something that takes into account the possibility that she has a legitimate issue), say it calmly, and then walk away (or ask her to leave) until she has calmed down.

 

[Alpha13SC]

Yeah it's tough to deal with a yelling woman. Even though I have a temper, when it boils over I usually feel very cold rather than wanting to yell or anything like that. But I still did feel like giving it back to her.

And one time I did end up in a yelling match with her in the car. The thing is it made me feel so weak, so chaotic emotionally and uncontrolled, I even started saying stuff that I hardly even meant just to get under her skin. And I realized this is how she felt when she was doing it - weak, afraid, desperate. I swore I would never let myself do it again. And I decided that it wasn't actually making her feel better, it wasn't making her stronger, and I shouldn't see it as her really having any frame.

The other thing to remember is: shouting is not a form of physical combat. Anyone can do it, even a woman or child, or a completely irrelevant, weak man. Why then should I take it seriously? And silence is not a form of retreat - if someone is yelling and you ignore them, and they can see that your resolve is only getting stronger, where can they go from there? Every avenue is a defeat.

Really the answer is very simple, you just have to know that you are stronger than her and she is desperate, you have to formulate a clear idea of what you are going to say to her (something that takes into account the possibility that she has a legitimate issue), say it calmly, and then walk away (or ask her to leave) until she has calmed down.

That's my conclusion as well, also being deflective with matters that make her yell is also a very bad decision.

I find interesting situations when she's getting upset because of her failed tries to make me "a better boyfriend" because some of her friend's boyfriend did one on more things to her partner that I didn't. To the point where I actually find it funny to be compared.

Some I accepted, because I actually was being an asshole, meanwhile other request like "why don't you put a photo with us on Facebook?" just turns me off and makes me question the whole relationship. I just see myself as a different type of guy. How did you managed those?

Another thing that I experimented is that many fights can alter her self esteem. I have a very good self image, and some fights and reactions from her(from a weak position) can drag you down, something I didn't anticipate.

Regarding Jordan Peterson, I saw a clip with him saying that when somebody's impulsive is because there's so much negative stuff in his/her(or whatever alien is nowadays) life that when it have a moment of peace and happiness, he/she/alien grabs it with every power and try to hold it, resulting in some very reactive actions. This also made me see things differently.

I hope I don t came across too personal with questions since it's a past relationship of yours, I'm just trying to see another points of views and references.

 

[Will_V]

Some I accepted, because I actually was being an asshole, meanwhile other request like "why don't you put a photo with us on Facebook?" just turns me off and makes me question the whole relationship. I just see myself as a different type of guy. How did you managed those?

Funny how relationships always seem to have the same kind of moves!

The first thing is, so what? She's a girl, she likes photos, she likes validation, she likes to try and find things that mean that the relationship is 'moving forward' or 'becoming official'. It's very normal. Men and women are not the same. Also, I look at it as validation of myself, she wants to show me off, so that means she's proud to be my girl.

But things you just don't like, just tell her. There's a reason women complain about 'mansplaining', it's because it works. When she respects you, she's always looking to fit into your frame, open to all kinds of negotiations, and when you repeat something a few times with certainty she'll generally just accept it after a while.

It's not just a man's job to manage dates and trips, it's also his job to set the themes of how the relationship will be, and he does this by learning how to control the narrative of who he is, who she is, who they are as a couple. It's all back to setting frames again. And if she really doesn't like his style, well, it's certainly not going to work out in the long run.

I never tire of making declarations and telling women my view of things, a good lecture even turns a woman on, as long as it's not annoying and it has a level of playfulness.

Another thing that I experimented is that many fights can alter her self esteem. I have a very good self image, and some fights and reactions from her(from a weak position) can drag you down, something I didn't anticipate.

Yes very true, women can have such a naive certainty about something absolutely illogical that it makes you question which one of you is actually seeing reality. My gf would simply skip to a different point as soon as logic had her cornered. Several times I've ended up in a sort of 'debate fight' that wore me out and kind of left me depressed and deflated, feeling like I was playing whack-a-mole.

In this kind of situation I found that remembering two things helps: 1) you're the leader, your job is to lead and hers is to follow, so all you need is her compliance - not always her understanding and 2) she always wants something - validation, attention, a show of care of some kind, gifts (my ex loved surprises and gifts of any kind, not even anything expensive just the stimulation of it, which I personally just don't care for) and if you give it to her she'll realize she doesn't have a problem any more, that it's all suddenly fixed.

And also, there is the art of treating a woman as 'silly and cute', sometimes if you just ignore what she is saying and focus on how cute she is being all fiery and battling for your attention, and just smile indulgently and look deep into her eyes until she starts to get flustered, and then walk slowly toward her and give her a cuddle, she'll find it very hard to pull herself together (especially if what she wanted can be solved in the bedroom).

Regarding Jordan Peterson, I saw a clip with him saying that when somebody's impulsive is because there's so much negative stuff in his/her(or whatever alien is nowadays) life that when it have a moment of peace and happiness, he/she/alien grabs it with every power and try to hold it, resulting in some very reactive actions. This also made me see things differently.

Interesting, I never read about that, but it makes perfect sense. Having spent a long time with a lot of negative emotion myself, especially when I was younger, this rings true.

I hope I don t came across too personal with questions since it's a past relationship of yours, I'm just trying to see another points of views and references.

Not at all! I enjoy talking about these things, especially relationships which I think many guys don't take full advantage of. There are things you can do with women over the long term that are very satisfying and lead to plenty of self development, and different to the usual pickup experience.

 

[Alpha13SC]

The first thing is, so what? She's a girl, she likes photos, she likes validation, she likes to try and find things that mean that the relationship is 'moving forward' or 'becoming official'. It's very normal. Men and women are not the same. Also, I look at it as validation of myself, she wants to show me off, so that means she's proud to be my girl.

Interesting pov, never thought about it. I have mixed feelings about this because I feel it like a step in the process of betaization and becoming a better boyfriend type, which is not something I want to be really. I don't really like classic relationship because, I associate them with a little bore and somehow taking for granted. I don't want to take for granted my girl and don't want to be as well.

I see many boyfriends being disrespected while they're still doing their job. I'm different than that kind of shit. A couple-friend of ours were togheter for 5 years and sometimes she showed him the middle finger and he was like "why are you doing doing?" and laughing. Kind of cool move, to not get mad and make a joke, but still, can't do that.

In this kind of situation I found that remembering two things helps: 1) you're the leader, your job is to lead and hers is to follow, so all you need is her compliance - not always her understanding and 2) she always wants something - validation, attention, a show of care of some kind, gifts (my ex loved surprises and gifts of any kind, not even anything expensive just the stimulation of it, which I personally just don't care for) and if you give it to her she'll realize she doesn't have a problem any more, that it's all suddenly fixed.

Haha, mine too. One time she asked me whenever I went to shop, to take her something, just for the sake of it. Or before leaving the house, I should always kiss her, even if I was leaving just for 5 minutes. It was kind of silly and cute and the same time, especially because I don't really care for this things.

And also, there is the art of treating a woman as 'silly and cute', sometimes if you just ignore what she is saying and focus on how cute she is being all fiery and battling for your attention, and just smile indulgently and look deep into her eyes until she starts to get flustered, and then walk slowly toward her and give her a cuddle, she'll find it very hard to pull herself together (especially if what she wanted can be solved in the bedroom).

I somehow subestimated the importance of sex. When I was injured and a little bit unable to have good sex, for 2-3 months, that period somehow intersected with a lot of fights between us and I was asking wtf is happening. Now I know.

Tbh, one of the scariest things for me is the marriage. I'm seeing my parents how less they talk, even if they are a happy couple, or others couples. The process of betaization as well, it makes me angry to a point and I need a way to handle with it next time.

Also, I ve made sexual attraction a goal from a relationship and in this point of my life, I think it's the most important thing between a man and a woman, no matter for how long they are together. A friend of mine, at the end of his 4 years ltr, told me that his ex told him she s no longer attracted to him. This thing left a mark on me, couldn't imagine how it affected him.

I saw my ex Tinder profile updated 1-2 weeks after we broke up. At that point, a part of me just died, was traumatic. Now I'm laughing at it, thinking "Man, I really fucked up"

 

[Will_V]

Interesting pov, never thought about it. I have mixed feelings about this because I feel it like a step in the process of betaization and becoming a better boyfriend type, which is not something I want to be really. I don't really like classic relationship because, I associate them with a little bore and somehow taking for granted. I don't want to take for granted my girl and don't want to be as well.

I definitely think it's always necessary to manage her impression of why you accept or reject some idea, not just do it because 'why not', for example publicizing the relationship in any way would be something I'd only do if I was on board with it advancing. Something that seems trivial for you might mean something implied to her that you don't want her to believe.

For example my ex used to talk to her parents a lot and always wanted me to be joining in, and maybe I did it a bit too easily because it kind of establishes another level of pressure (from them) about what you're doing, where the relationship is going, and kind of involves them in things. This has implications. So it's always good to try and understand what each thing means to her or the relationship, also so that she doesn't get the wrong idea.

I see many boyfriends being disrespected while they're still doing their job. I'm different than that kind of shit. A couple-friend of ours were togheter for 5 years and sometimes she showed him the middle finger and he was like "why are you doing doing?" and laughing. Kind of cool move, to not get mad and make a joke, but still, can't do that.

Yeah, it's always good to let a girl know if there's something you don't like (and I encourage her to tell me if there's anything she doesn't like that I do as well). It's too easy just to kind of think 'it's just a party of two, we're just having fun etc' but if it really irritates you or you just feel disrespected by it, and you encourage it at all, where's that going to lead?

Haha, mine too. One time she asked me whenever I went to shop, to take her something, just for the sake of it. Or before leaving the house, I should always kiss her, even if I was leaving just for 5 minutes. It was kind of silly and cute and the same time, especially because I don't really care for this things.

I actually think these things can be good for a relationship as long as they aren't over the top and you don't mind doing it for the rest of the time you're together. But I do think spontaneous acts of showing attraction or appreciation are more powerful for a girl, especially when it is a result of something she's done.

Tbh, one of the scariest things for me is the marriage. I'm seeing my parents how less they talk, even if they are a happy couple, or others couples. The process of betaization as well, it makes me angry to a point and I need a way to handle with it next time.

Yeah the whole thing of marriage and very long term relationship is something I'm still figuring out. There are so many people with boring relationships who appear to sort of anchor eachother to a mundane existence.

I was listening to a guy on youtube once who said that girls need drama and although he would be reasonably happy in a monogamous LTR/marriage, he'd probably keep banging other girls every now and then to keep his main girl on her toes.

I don't know if that's necessary, but I think the idea is correct, both a man and a woman need to feel a bit apprehensive about whether they are 'good enough' for the other one. Otherwise the woman stops taking care of herself and the man turns into a fat couch potato.

A good way to put a bit of pressure on I've found is fairly sudden trips or adventures of some kind. It keeps the relationship feeling like it's novel, like it's associated with new experiences. It's hard though, it takes effort to do that especially if there's any long term friction or resentment going on.

Also, I ve made sexual attraction a goal from a relationship and in this point of my life, I think it's the most important thing between a man and a woman, no matter for how long they are together. A friend of mine, at the end of his 4 years ltr, told me that his ex told him she s no longer attracted to him. This thing left a mark on me, couldn't imagine how it affected him.

You know what, I don't know the specific details of that one of course, but I have a lot of sympathy for women who end up with a dud after marriage. I see it a lot, the guy completely loses his edge, ambition, stops striving for anything, turns into a 'home bum'.

One time I went along with a friend of mine to visit one of his friends. This guy was thirty something, not long married, and he had a 'game room' in which he spent virtually all the time he had to spare after work playing Call of Duty matches. The woman sat on the sofa watching TV and looking miserable.

Was he escaping from her, or just decided he wanted to neglect her and the relationship? I don't know, but whatever it was, it was his fault. He was going nowhere in life and she was tied to him.

When the red pillers carry on about women abandoning guys for no reason, I bet half the time he turned out to be a dud. A woman marrying a man is like betting on a horse, either the horse will go somewhere good (and fast) or just stop and start eating grass. Why does the horse need to go anywhere if it has a nice field to chew on for the rest of its life? This to me is the ultimate betrayal of a woman's trust. If I'm in charge of a relationship, I expect a woman to be in my frame, but if she has any character at all she'll find a way to make my life very hard if I'm not doing my job.

Ultimately, if you keep a woman feeling a little bit apprehensive, keep her stimulated with new experiences, keep her jumping through little hoops for you, keep giving her a good hard railing in bed, and above all if you lead your own life as if you're an independent man with places to go, enterprises to manage, and ambitions to realize, then I think it's very hard for attraction to expire. In the end, whatever happens is usually a man's fault, one way or the other.

 

[Alpha13SC]

When the red pillers carry on about women abandoning guys for no reason, I bet half the time he turned out to be a dud. A woman marrying a man is like betting on a horse, either the horse will go somewhere good (and fast) or just stop and start eating grass. Why does the horse need to go anywhere if it has a nice field to chew on for the rest of its life? This to me is the ultimate betrayal of a woman's trust. If I'm in charge of a relationship, I expect a woman to be in my frame, but if she has any character at all she'll find a way to make my life very hard if I'm not doing my job.

Ultimately, if you keep a woman feeling a little bit apprehensive, keep her stimulated with new experiences, keep her jumping through little hoops for you, keep giving her a good hard railing in bed, and above all if you lead your own life as if you're an independent man with places to go, enterprises to manage, and ambitions to realize, then I think it's very hard for attraction to expire. In the end, whatever happens is usually a man's fault, one way or the other.

Agree on that. My philosophy of a relationship is that from the moment when you enter in one, you must just improve. I used to think that if for some reason something happen to me(by accident, which wasn't in my power of will, but I can recover from it) and I'll not be the same person, at least temporary, I m not even mad if the girl leaves. Now I think this mindset is half flawed because as long as I can keep the frame and be better than I was, everything's good.

Now, taking advantage of this topic, I have another question. Due to their nature, how much their emotions are more intense? Taking a break up for example, yeah, for man I think it can mess up him harder, but her experiencing a break up can really make her go crazy. Is this emotion of loss so much more harder for her? Or maybe the fear of loss?

 

[Will_V]

Agree on that. My philosophy of a relationship is that from the moment when you enter in one, you must just improve.

That's another reason why I like women who don't let things slide. There's nothing like having a woman you want to keep, who is sniffing out all your weaknesses, to help you get around real quick to fixing them.

I think a lot of guys go around thinking this means they are in the woman's frame, but that's nonsense. The woman is simply a reflection of him.

And just because you fix a problem as a consequence of your woman, it doesn't mean you need to go around pedestalizing her, in fact I reward her by being even more dominant and strong - I want her to feel like her reward for being a strong woman is having a stronger man on top of her.

I used to think that if for some reason something happen to me(by accident, which wasn't in my power of will, but I can recover from it) and I'll not be the same person, at least temporary, I m not even mad if the girl leaves. Now I think this mindset is half flawed because as long as I can keep the frame and be better than I was, everything's good.

That's a good point. There was an article Chase wrote some time ago, I can't remember which one, but it had some theme of how if you don't care, you still failed, you still gave up. I think the example was Elon Musk and his wife, and how him letting her go and not 'winning' the battle was still a failure - because she was someone who he had selected and he had not succeeded in keeping her.

I agree with this fundamental point, that a man should never stop caring about successfully maintaining whatever he has any dependency on, it's weak and hypocritical. It's like a champion not caring when they lose a competition. Even when you can't stop her leaving, even after trying everything you can and it's not enough, if it doesn't stay as a scar, you never had any chance to begin with.

For me, life is a battleground of me against the obstacles to my will and desires. One day it will be over, but during that time my job is to find a way to win, no matter what, in every single thing I do.

Now, taking advantage of this topic, I have another question. Due to their nature, how much their emotions are more intense? Taking a break up for example, yeah, for man I think it can mess up him harder, but her experiencing a break up can really make her go crazy. Is this emotion of loss so much more harder for her? Or maybe the fear of loss?

I think it depends. Look up 'cluster B' women, there are good articles on Girls Chase about it. For these especially, emotions can be very strong, both good and bad.

The girl I've been talking about is somewhat of cluster B. It's very easy to say that this is a bad thing, but I disagree. Many guys are simply not capable of handling women with a stronger contrast of emotions, who can be both colder and more needy at the same time. It's not easy. But in the end, if you find a way to deal with the bad times, the good times are very, very good. They offer parts of themselves to you that most girls don't. And I believe these girls are capable of far greater loyalty and devotion, and creating stronger bonds with you, than typical girls.

In general, I think the way that a girl experiences a breakup depends on how you treat her, whether she feels deeply betrayed or whether she can understand that somehow it didn't work out. Girls who are closer to you emotionally, who are more dependent, will need a lot more care in the managing a breakup if you want to reduce how much it affects her. If she has opened up herself to you deeply, lost some of her identity for you, then it's very easy for her to have a very bad time when it's over, especially if it's sudden.

For me, the main way I managed it was to keep giving her a bit of validation on things that were independent of us, making her feel like she was a capable girl, and not blaming her directly as the cause of the breakup. She was not able to make me insult or hurt her, even though she tried. I simply created a frame in which both she and I were capable, attractive people, and it hadn't worked out between us for whatever reason.

She still enjoys trying to get my validation when she calls or messages me, and sometimes I give her a little bit, but it's not in a desperate way, and the feeling between us is warm and relaxed.

 

[trashKENNUT]

How many guys here have not used any tactics yet and secured a relationship?

Values, Same Niches.

Most relationships are this. ALSO because you just won't like her if she has too far of different values, beliefs, interest.

z@c+