Relationship going off, Is this the end?

[devlish]

It's been six months with my gf (I'd give her above a 9 on looks), she's been very sweet, very good in bed, she goes out a lot and is very busy but I'm extremely unclingy and she knows I have no issues about that and nor does she with me being busy. I let her chase me in the relationship at the start and then I asked her out. It's always been her initiating most things, her doing the nice things, me kinda not giving a shit about her that much... up until now. I've always known that I haven't been treating her that well (subconsciously) partly because it's ingrained into my personality, but also because she is the type of girl that if i'm cheesy with or too nice to she gets turned off. She's becoming a bit more aloof now (one reason could be because she told me that she feels like she isn't that important to me and that I put other things before her and don't talk to her every night...which she told me about 3 weeks ago now and I have only been getting a bit nicer over the past week due to her {small but noticeable} aloofness).

I am kinda unsure of what to do now because I would like to keep her as a gf and I'd also like to treat her a bit better because I know that's where I was slacking in the past, however now that she's got this constant (small but noticeable) aloofness I'm not sure that treating her better is the right step as she may take it as needy (Yes/No???)

I will not mind too much if the relationship ends and, and I know that me being a pussy and trying could make things worse?

SO do I put in a bit more effort? (not loads just a bit),
is it TOO LATE?

suggestions? (thanks in advance)

 

[Franco]

devilish,

I've always known that I haven't been treating her that well (subconsciously) partly because it's ingrained into my personality, but also because she is the type of girl that if i'm cheesy with or too nice to she gets turned off.

This all depends on what you mean by "not treating her well." Just because you aren't being cheesy or aren't constantly showering her with gifts and attention does not, by any means, indicate that you are not treating her well. In fact, this is probably the way you should be handling things.

Not treating her well can be a variable of other things, including making promises to her and not keeping them (which is why you generally want to avoid making too many promises -- especially big ones -- in general). It can also be talking down to her constantly, or not being attentive to her emotions and addressing issues where she's obviously feeling neglected/insecure in front of you.

In order to diagnose the problem, we would need to know where you think you are "not treating her well." Give us some examples. (NOTE: It may turn out that you are actually doing everything just fine, and the problem may be that she's actually just testing you to see if you'll be firm in your stance or if you'll cower and capitulate to her demands)

In general, remember, the idea is never to ignore her concerns or get angry at them; instead, it's about addressing them directly, being firm in your stance, and taking care of the problem right when it shows up. That's what shows the girl that you indeed care, but it also shows her that you're strong and unwavering as well.

- Franco

 

[devlish]

Not treating her well... I've had to have people tell me this as I didn't realize on my own:
Haven't given her a single gift in the whole six months we've been going out (maybe a cheap bracelet ages ago) and seeing each other once a week.
She invites me out all the time and I always act like I can't be bothered to go with her and act like meeting her friends is a chore - it looks like I don't care.
She moaned to me twice about how I never initiate texts/calls and I told her how busy I am studying, then she said it only takes a few minutes to talk to your gf...which is true but it just feels strange for me to initiate, not sure why but I think it's something to do with my strong inability to show girls I care about them.
My response rate is in the range of 2 minutes to 5 hours and she gets annoyed when I don't text back reasonably quickly. She always texts back fast.
She has told me that when we're not together it is as though we're not going out because we don't text and call a lot.

After me doing one of these things she has usually acted aloof but brushed it off... more recently she acts much more aloof if I do one of these things.

Also from some of the stuff you mentioned: I talk down to her sometimes by treating her like a little baby who's stupid (just saying how it is), I'm rude to her sometimes and am rarely attentive to her emotions (she's actually pretty emotionless kinda like a man so I suppose this isn't that important). She also seems to not really have any insecurities, only if she has a tiny spot on her perfect little face but that's about it. I am also nice to her sometimes though. I think one of my problems is that I don't know how to show interest without me feeling that I'm being needy, which is why I let her initiate stuff. With hot girls like this who everyone loves I also feel if I show even a shred too much interest it's off putting?

Am I treating her badly? or that badly? do I need to show more interest when enough people are already? and should I put my fears as coming across needy by showing interest aside?

Thanks a lot for the advice Franco

 

[Franco]

devilish,

For the most part, it seems like you're doing just about everything right, actually. I'll address some of it:

Haven't given her a single gift in the whole six months we've been going out (maybe a cheap bracelet ages ago) and seeing each other once a week.

You're fine here. Only times I've ever given gifts to my girlfriend were on Christmas, Valentine's Day, or her birthday. That's really about it. No need for excessive gifts without a purpose to them.

She invites me out all the time and I always act like I can't be bothered to go with her and act like meeting her friends is a chore - it looks like I don't care.

You can't deny all of these requests without seeming like you don't care. As long as you occasionally do some of the things she wants to do with you, then she won't have much to complain about. But if you've been dating for six months and still refuse to meet her friends, then she's definitely going to feel put off by it.

She moaned to me twice about how I never initiate texts/calls and I told her how busy I am studying, then she said it only takes a few minutes to talk to your gf...which is true but it just feels strange for me to initiate, not sure

Nothing to worry about here as long as you handle this correctly. You tell her that you only contact her when you really have something important to tell her because you have other things to do. Also, you don't enjoy spending time talking on the phone and would rather save the good conversation for when you see her in person. Tell her that people who talk on the phone too much don't really have other things going on in their lives, and you're the type of guy who keeps himself busy so that he can have free time to spend with her in person. If you spent your week talking to her on the phone, then you'd just be putting off your other things to do that would take up the time you actually spend in person with her. (Remember, the concern here isn't so much that you don't talk to her enough as much as it is a shit test to see if you care about her... if she feels like you address the problem well, then she sees that you care enough to give her an explanation)

My response rate is in the range of 2 minutes to 5 hours and she gets annoyed when I don't text back reasonably quickly. She always texts back fast.

Your answer: "Babe, you know I don't always check my phone all day long. I know a phone is like a third hand to a girl, but I'm just not that way. You know I always eventually get back to you when I check my phone, too."

She has told me that when we're not together it is as though we're not going out because we don't text and call a lot.

Your answer: "So are you trying to say that our relationship's strength is based on the amount of time we spend on the phone together? Just because we don't spend a lot of time on the phone together during the week does not mean I don't care about you. Too many couples waste their time talking on the phone and then don't spend enough quality time together sharing laughs and conversation in person. As I already mentioned, I just prefer to take care of all of my other responsibilities during the week so that we can spend time together on the weekend."

I'm rude to her sometimes and am rarely attentive to her emotions (she's actually pretty emotionless kinda like a man so I suppose this isn't that important). She also seems to not really have any insecurities, only if she has a tiny spot on her perfect little face but that's about it.

Be careful with this assessment. Just about every girl I've ever met on the planet is actually extremely emotional, and they have plenty of insecurities. As a matter of fact, the whole point of your post is that you're making your girlfriend feel neglected and insecure, right?

The only difference is that some girls are much better at hiding it, and it sounds like this girl is pretty good at it. Just know that any time she isn't smiling or happy around you, there's a good chance that she's concerned/worried about something. If she makes any passive-aggressive or snide remarks, then there is definitely something bothering her, and you should attempt to address it directly by asking her what's bothering her.

Am I treating her badly? or that badly? do I need to show more interest when enough people are already? and should I put my fears as coming across needy by showing interest aside?

I think you're doing fine in terms of not being needy. If anything, you're leaning more toward "not caring" than you are "needy." You just need to make sure you aren't ignoring your girlfriend when it's obvious that she wants you to stand up and explain your actions (and she'll do this by covering it with stuff like, "you don't call me enough" which is a translation for, "I'm not sure if you care; please do or say something to explain your actions and show me you care").

- Franco

 

[devlish]

So from what you say: (and just to put everything I should do in one place)

I should go out with her sometimes and meet her friends.

You tell her that you only contact her when you really have something important to tell her because you have other things to do. Also, you don't enjoy spending time talking on the phone and would rather save the good conversation for when you see her in person. Tell her that people who talk on the phone too much don't really have other things going on in their lives, and you're the type of guy who keeps himself busy so that he can have free time to spend with her in person.

"So are you trying to say that our relationship's strength is based on the amount of time we spend on the phone together? Just because we don't spend a lot of time on the phone together during the week does not mean I don't care about you. Too many couples waste their time talking on the phone and then don't spend enough quality time together sharing laughs and conversation in person. As I already mentioned, I just prefer to take care of all of my other responsibilities during the week so that we can spend time together on the weekend

Perfect I'm going to say these things to her

If it looks like there's something bothering her I'll ask her to explain and be nice.
If she thinks I'm ignoring/neglecting her, I'll explain that I do care.

Many thanks Franco

 

[devlish]

I told her all that stuff about how amount of time spent on phone doesn't determine relationship strength and that I'd rather see her in person... etc. She says once a week doesn't feel like it's enough and it doesn't feel like a proper relationship (apparently her friends bf's live like 10 mins away so it's much easier for them, whereas I live an hour away). She also said a bad thing is that we have different friendship groups and she doesn't know my friends that well?

I think she doesn't trust me either because she said she doesn't know what I'm up to when I'm out without her.. maybe because all her ex bf's were complete dicks to her (loads of games and cheating) and she said she doesn't want to get hurt. She only admitted this stuff in a really deep convo and seemed quite scared of opening up even just a bit. I told her I care about her and that stuff and opened up a bit as well about past things that had happened with girls where I felt shit and that kinda stuff. She ended up crying but then we had really good sex later and told each other we love each other blah blah and now it's fine.

But those problems are still kinda there, have any suggestions?

 

[Franco]

devilish,

You need to make sure you verbalize everything. A lot of times when you're talking to a girl about this stuff, she knows what the issues actually are and why she shouldn't be worried, but she NEEDS to hear you verbalize them TO her because she wants to hear YOU say it first; this gives her some relief to hear it from you so that she can feel like you're both on the same page.

So when you said this...

(apparently her friends bf's live like 10 mins away so it's much easier for them, whereas I live an hour away)

...I hope you actually verbalized this to her as well. She probably KNOWS it's harder to see you, but she wants to hear you say this also so that she feels like it's not some other reason that you're hiding. If you did say this, then that's good.

She also said a bad thing is that we have different friendship groups and she doesn't know my friends that well?

How you want to respond to this can vary, but you need to be clear about what your response is. You can tell her that most of the things that you do with your guy friends are things you know she wouldn't be interested in being a part of (but only say this if it's actually the case), and that when she comes to visit you, you just prefer to spend time with her instead of become distracted by your friends. If she says she still feels like she would like to get to know them better, then you can probably make a little effort to arrange an engagement or two with her and your friends where she can feel a little more comfortable around them. Just know that if she complains at all about your friends even after you've arranged a meet-up, you need to be strict on her the same way you were with the phone thing (i.e. "so you complained that you don't know my friends well enough, and then when I go out of my way to make sure you get to know them better, you complain that you don't like them or they were distracting me? This is why I did not want to do this, so if you're going to be in a bad mood when I try to do it, then I'm not going to do it again.")

As you can see from all of these examples, one thing I always do is VERBALIZE exactly what the issue is; you need to point out the flaws in her logic... she knows the flaws are there, but the way you give her that relief is by stating them directly to her when the problem comes up. Of course, don't do anything pre-emptively and only bring it up if she gets upset.

I think she doesn't trust me either because she said she doesn't know what I'm up to when I'm out without her.. maybe because all her ex bf's were complete dicks to her (loads of games and cheating) and she said she doesn't want to get hurt. She only admitted this stuff in a really deep convo and seemed quite scared of opening up even just a bit. I told her I care about her and that stuff and opened up a bit as well about past things that had happened with girls where I felt shit and that kinda stuff. She ended up crying but then we had really good sex later and told each other we love each other blah blah and now it's fine.

But those problems are still kinda there, have any suggestions?

That just sounds like an insecure girlfriend with baggage, bud. It's something you want to screen out before you even start seriously dating a girl if you can. Some guys don't really mind dealing with the constant drama if they love their girlfriends enough, so if that's you, then you should be fine. You just have to decide whether or not her insecurity is infrequent enough that you don't mind having to manage it. If you feel like it's becoming more stress than she's worth, then it might be time to end things with her. That is your decision.

I hope that helps.

- Franco

 

[Andres]

I just came across this post and realized it is similar to what I am going through in some ways. My own g/f has told me some of those exact lines to me. Now we are just 2 months shy of making a year and a half and I have pretty much done what Franco said and it has worked. With my girl though, she keeps bringing up those same shit tests a few months later when she starts to get annoyed with my habits. So it seems like these are temporary solutions for a hard case like herself. Is there a reason why they drag out these shit tests or repeat them? Is it out of complacency on my end? Also, Devilish, check the post I made. Its similar to yours and It might give you some insights into the future. Or u may find more advice Franco has given that didn't show up here. Best of luck.

 

[devlish]

Cheers Andres I read your post. It's kinda similar in the way that neither of us will bow down to the other and do what the other wants... maybe occasionally I go to her party, she comes to mine or we just both miss our parties and chill.

Franco- I have been verbalizing the issues better now and addressing them directly. On the point you made about ending things with her:

Up until recently I didn't realize she would be such bad long term relationship material (didn't screen hard at start). She goes out very frequently and sometimes gets completely smashed (e.g it was Halloween yesterday and we went to separate parties and there's pics of her with boys round her and she comments stuff like 'lol can't remember anything'). She was a once a week hard drug user, she's stopped recently - apparently I'm turning her into a good girl (but I've never tried convincing her, she just knows I don't and will not take substances that turn me into a retard).

Just wondering what I should do if my girls cheating (I've heard she's kissed someone else-don't really mind this so have I) and is in high risk situations constantly-goes clubbing and parties a lot, and the drugs, so will undoubtedly cheat again. should I put up with her promiscuity and treat her as a more friends with benefits? or end the relationship-because even though I am quite hard I know her behavior will make me feel needy at some points? (I would not know the best way to end it, either way I think it's ending in about half a year anyway when we both go to separate colleges)