Seducers: Are We Wrong? A Philosophical Question On Our Pursuit

[TomGray]

I always try to see both sides of an argument. The truth is more important than our individual confirmation biases. Since discovering this website, my life has changed and been affected in ways that I'm proud of. I've learned things about men and women and have challenged myself in more ways than I can think of.

But have I been doing it wrong?

I had a discussion with my female teacher whom I consider a mentor and we discussed the topic of men and women. I came to her because she's always a fount of meaningful conversation. It made me realize more fully than ever before that the default of most people in meeting each other is simply in social situations, not necessarily from walking up to her on the street or library or club or wherever. Whereas I come from the side of actively trying to improve my skill with women, she and most people seem to think that it's not all that necessary. She says that all people are different, that different people have various preferences, and that there's a danger in generalizing all women as liking the same type of person, in the GirlsChase example, that would be the sexy bad boy.

This is definitely true. Not to mention, research (and common sense) tell us that for friendships and relationships, people choose people that are most similar to them.

So then what are we doing when we learn seduction?

I grew tired of being uninvolved in school and staying home so this semester I joined a few clubs. I've gained friends and had a good time. To be perfectly honest, I did it not without a hope of meeting someone. But how is this different from what other people do? You don't need to be a seducer to get involved with organizations.

Likewise with how I improved my fashion. And voice. And how I chose to get back into filmmaking. And become a teacher after I graduate. Lots of people do this. And lots of people are attracted to people who have goals and take care of themselves. Why study seduction?

What is seduction? What is it when you distill it from all these other commonplace elements? Is it just approaching random girls? Trying to have one-night stands?

This website helped me break out of my shell and realize what was possible in life. But I was (and still am to an extent) socially stunted and many of the men who discovered it were too. Are the things we learn here really just ass-backwards, the culmination of limited experience and narrow vision from a bunch of sexually frustrated weirdos? Or is it mainstream society that's been wrong all the time, as most of us would claim, leading men to become sex-starved wimps? And is it okay to be a wimp? Do some women have that preference?

And if we are wrong, have we wasted all of our time?

I'm in a strange place in my seduction career where I've improved my fundamentals but still lack experience. That's my problem and I'll work on it. So maybe these questions are all the product of some mid-seduction-career crisis. Maybe if I had more success to show for it, I could argue for seduction effectively and extol its virtues. But I'm not at that place.

So I turn to you, seducers and would-be seducers. Help me to fill in the gaps in my knowledge. There's something to seduction, I can feel it, but I need your help to express it.

Cheers, Tom.

 

[trashKENNUT]

Here's what I know.

Women are "unobjective", and they operate not from the level of consciousness. If I ever want to listen to a women, i listen by being passive. (Article on Passive Screening)

No disrespect to your teacher. Fundamentally, She's a women.

p.S: My answer is off topic because i'm away.

Zac

 

[Mr.Rob]

Not to mention, research (and common sense) tell us that for friendships and relationships, people choose people that are most similar to them.

Yes very very true. However what most people don't get is that "us", our personality, who we are... are all very fluid things that are constantly changing due to whatever forces we happen to find ourselves in. Constant but slow.

People choose people that are most similar to them. Well if you suck shit then you'll get women similar that also suck shit... hence how I lost my virginity (wish the best for the girl and would do my best to point her in the right direction but if we're going to be real she sucked shit in life).

On the other hand since we constantly changing if we decide to intentionally direct that change we as well can upgrade and attract people that we want in our lives. Lets be honest even when I sucked shit in life (depressed, scarcity based chump) I still wanted to date the fine 10's. But I wasn't similar to the tens and vice versa (still going off of your quote).

So you change until you are similar to the people you want in your life.

Also seduction itself is a skill in which you learn interpersonal skills that help you be a gangster in everyday life. Most people's social skills suck bawlz and you can really open up doors by developing these skills.
Not to mention the personal growth that ensues as a result.
No reason not to learn seduction.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tom I see you mention that this post is more theory based than experienced based and that got me thinking about when I first joined these boards a year and a half (give or take) ago.

I remember when I first got on the boards here you were going out on a somewhat regular basis and were racking up little successes more so than I was. I remember reading your posts and being jealous/motivated to go out and get some of my own little successes. I remember being quite anxious thinking I might fall off the straight and narrow and you'd end up killing it and I'd be eating dirt. Since we were close in experience/skill level at one point.

The only difference is that I never quit and you did.
Not putting myself over you or trying to belittle you but I thought it was an interesting observation that just hit me.

Like I can't help but wonder that if you would've stuck with it perhaps you would've been killing it harder/faster than me while I ate dirt.

Only difference between us is that I hung in there.

I know you had your reasons for getting out of the game and to be honest I think you had more inner game issues/turmoil that needed figuring out and I can't say that if I were in your shoes I wouldn't have done the same thing.

What I'm getting at is I think you should consider getting back in the game. You learned a lot and grew a lot just from the while you were in here. Perhaps now you have the inner game better worked out and more willpower to make shit happen.

Either way sooner or later I think you will get back out there and I think you will figure this shit out, but why wait?

My 2 cents.

Good to talk to you Tom, cool topic.

-Rob

 

[Troy]

Tom,

You aren't the only one who feels that way. I actually feel taken back these days when I have to read an article, listen to a podcast, or talk to someone about improving my social skills. I don't see guys going out to stop girls on the street. And if it did happen they were on some other mission and were probably with a group of friends.

I think of all this seduction thing as some guy going out loner man style with good fundamentals, chatting up 20 girls in a outing ( because his batting rate is low ), and then scraping it to finally get one girl to come home and sleep with him. Only for the girl to leave the following morning. Or worse she sticks around only to see that this guy doesn't have a whole lot going on.

This guy doesn't have a social circle, doesn't have real friends, only acquaintances, and has slept with a lot of women. That's it. I feel like just going the route that everyone else is going. Social circle. Heck! I know for sure that if all these guys on girls chase had a strong social circle support and a girlfriend or two and managed to sleep with other girls they would not be here studying seduction. You know what happened to me too? I find myself beginning to hate " seduction ".

Let me make it clear that this website has really helped me understand things better. I love the site and the advice. What I don't like is studying something that should come natural. Like breathing air. Except for exercises and yoga, no one sits down and studies how to take in oxygen and release gas. It's just natural.

God made sex to be a natural thing and for people to come together naturally. That doesn't mean we should wait on hope, the man should still approach but why does this all feel so mechanical?

Cold approach is something I'm hating more and more daily. Going out alone I hate. The only reason why I continue to hold my head up and learn all this stuff is?

Not to sleep with a lot of women and not to become some womanizer. The only reason I'm here is to get the social skills so I can get a girlfriend anytime I want, be recognised by people and have a social circle, and build close friendships with men and women. That's all.

So Tom, I get what you are going through. I couldn't agree more with you. All I can say is at least learn this to get good social skills. Don't give up. Whatever your goal may be. Whether that be getting a girlfriend, wife, or a social circle with lots of close friends then do it. That's all I'll say now. I hope this post doesn't sound like I'm complaining or being negative. I only meant to express myself in a quick manner. I do believe in perusing this from the right angle. To simply be happy. And I'm happy now. Just reflecting on what you said. I love reading your posts Tom.

And Mr. Rob you had quite a few points in there that ties in well with what I believe in. Since it's late now I'll share that another time. Good night!

Troy

 

[Smith]

Hey Tom,

I was wondering the same thing when I went out today just to do "cold approach pick up".

I still felt like learning seduction had turned my life around, so I don't hate it, but sometimes, without the right inner belief, I think it can lead you astray and make you a validation-seeking addicts or worst.

I have been thinking a lot about just creating a big social circle and meet new girls through it, because frankly, meeting girls solely through on the streets/stores/supermarket can be time consuming when you have other things going on in your life. BUT, it's still a useful skill to have because being able to meet girls anywhere is a powerful feeling. Plus, seduction is much more than just getting girls. I learned more about psychology, sociology, biology and meditation when I'm learning seduction.

Like Troy said, seduction is supposed to be a natural thing that humans do. Cavemen didn't have to learn seduction to reproduce. so what changed? Why do most guys keep being 'nice' even though it's clearly not working for them?
The easy and difficult answer is social conditioning, the way media feed us beliefs that we didn't bother to check and cross-reference with our own experience. As a result, the whole culture of madonna/whore complex, nice guys and friend zones are created. I doubt cavemen got friendzoned back in the days.
Movies, media and even our parents tell us that you have to find that one special girl then you hold onto her forever,and when u've been fed with that idea for 15+ years, you literally become your own prisoner. It's how you see the world and you don't even question it. That's why guys get frustrated when girls don't react the way movies and society portrays them to, and they blame the girls for being girls.

I don't believe that girls will settle for a wimpy guy, like in the movies. Simply look around you, and see the world as it is.

So I think this whole seduction thing is about removing all the wrong beliefs, getting back to your core self and actually see the world as it is. Not the way our society frames it. Think about it, most guys can already do all the seduction stuff, but they're too scared to do it. They're too scared to lead, touch a girl, escalate...etc.

There were many moments out on the field when I just wanna quit this stuff and go home and take the easy way out, but deep down I know I can't.
It's probably too late for you to quit now, because you know what's possible! you've already seen behind the curtains.

- Smith

 

[Drck]

When an average guy looks at hot girl, he probably thinks something like: Wow, she's really hot, what do I have to do to have her as a GF/Wife? And he has no clue. He might not have the confidence to approach her. If he is not shy he goes and chats with her, perhaps gets a date or two... On the date, he tries to prove himself to her, he tries to show her that he is a great provider, he pays for her, he tries to take things with her slowly so that sweet and cute girl doesn't get scared away... That is what he knows, that is what he learned from his peers, and he hopes that it will work.

And it works, sometimes, for some guys. Sometimes he gets lucky, she becomes his GF, they kiss, they have sex, she becomes his wife, and he is happy...

But most of the time for most average guys it doesn't work that way. Usually what happens is that he gets dumped not even knowing why. So he thinks it is him, it must be his personality, and thus his self-esteem and confidence get shot down. Then he is even more afraid of talking to pretty girls because he doesn't want to face another rejections. He might get angry and very frustrated because he can't get any girl, but no matter what he does, nothing seems to work...

He just have no clue, he doesn't understand why, he might think that getting a hot girl is just a coincidence, that those guys who date hot girls were just lucky, or they have much better personality... He might be hurt and depressed, sometimes for couple of weeks, sometimes for many many years...

Then he discovers seduction, PUA material. Now he learns about Nice Guys, Assholes, Alphas and Lovers. Now he understand that being a Nice Guy or a Provider is not really the best way to present himself to the girl he likes. Now he knows that most Nice Guys get dumped right away, perhaps they don't even get any chance to date. Now he knows that girls really desire sex and if he wants to get the hot ones he's got to move fast. Very fast. Now he learns why most guys get rejected, and he learns how to deal with rejections in the best possible way, so now he suffers much less...

So why seduction? Well, if you were raised as a Nice Guy and want to keep relying on Miss Coincidece, you don't need seduction at all. Just keep patiently waiting till Mr. Luck knocks on your door. But if you want take your fate in your hands, if you want to avoid the pain from rejections, you simply have to learn some new stuff about girls and dating, and you have to start approaching girls in some systematic way...

 

[Mr.Rob]

This guy doesn't have a social circle, doesn't have real friends, only acquaintances, and has slept with a lot of women. That's it. I feel like just going the route that everyone else is going. Social circle

You don't have to abandon your social circle and become a weird loner PU man... you can do both. All the best guys on the forum have awesome social circles and peer groups.
You sound bitter because this person your portraying is you I'm assuming?'
If you want a social circle and you have no friends your going to have to cold approach anyway lol.

The reason you don't want to do social circle like everyone else is because then your dating options are limited to the 5 fucking girls in your social circle/at work and your going to be a needy little bitch.

Do both!

Me personally I am that weird PU loner guy but I have so much fun when I'm out that I (and everyone else) doesn't notice I'm alone. I know over time I'll meet cool people and women and have the life I want.

why does this all feel so mechanical?

because you suck. lol not hating but that's the answer. Whether you like it or not social conditioning is massively impactful on you from an age where you don't know any better and fucks your mind. Your on the path to overcome it and doing fine, in time you'll be natural.

Cavemen didn't have to learn seduction to reproduce. so what changed?

You really think cavemen were like natural seducers? I mean maybe they were but I think back then mates were chosen more by who was the most gangster man and was going to produce results that kept the tribe/family alive.
Obviously this is all theoretical and can't be proven but its fun to speculate!

I think cavemen's "game" is probably to get an erection and take whatever girl he wants and rape her but since there wasn't rape back then it was just normal shit. Haha theoretical!

Also I'm sure some cavemen could definitely have benefitted from learning seduction. Seduction teaches you to become a man (at least on this site) and if all the retarded beta male cavemen stepped it up and started producing results as well as how to relate to a woman then they too could probably rape the hot cavegirl. Lol.

We are the retarded beta cavemen that won't reproduce without some outside guidance. Luckily for us we won't fucking die off without offspring because we suck shit... we have the PUA community. Yeah! ahahahaha

But seriously I don't think every guy from the caveman days could mate with the quality girl. If you were a retarded beta male that couldn't produce shit then you probably got extricated from the tribe and banished for being a loser... these days we just call it friendzone.

This is my opinion do yall agree or disagree?

Curious thread gentlemen.

-Rov

 

[Drck]

Great topic. Cavemen had it much easier. He saw the girl he liked, he hit the girl he liked with his bamboos, and then he brought the girl to his cave the same hour. She was his. Great old times, no seduction skills were needed.

Unfortunately the social dynamic shifted a lot, especially recently in the past what, 50-100 years? Compare "Men" from 1960's (old movies) to today's "Men". There is a huge difference. Men used to be more manly, more masculine, physically stronger and mentally tougher...

There were wars, the most recent was World War II. Many men had to fight for their lives, and many lives were lost. There were many many changes in the world and especially in west (i.e. USA) resulting in more freedom for women, more education... At the same time, the new generation of men was raised mainly by women...

There is of course much more to it, but the result is that in general today's men are much weaker, physically, mentally and emotionally... Manliness disappeared, and instead lots of Nice Guys appeared.... Today's guys don't go to war, they play with Nintendo and iPhone...

Thanks to advances in technology, there is simple access to porn - while Caveman was looking only on painted tits in his cave and your grandfather was browsing through handful of black and white pictures of naked women, you can jerk off to thousands of movies every single day - see different fetishes, groups, anals, chains...

So men in general got fat and lazy; obesity actually have a huge influence on levels of testosterone as it decreases the male hormone women crave for, and increases the female hormone estrogen... In longer term, porn actually restructures man's brain, it makes him less horny and more impotent... And man's sex fantasies exploded - can he really deal with a normal girl, normal woman and normal sex - after watching porn for years...?

At the same time women got more freedom, they are more financially independent, they have lots of laws that protect them... Today they are doing many jobs created for men - they are CEOs, they command Army and Navy, they lead men in politics...

There was a time not so long ago that most of us remember: The whole world was respecting and admiring USA, and USA was leading, and most countries wanted to follow the strong lead... However, if you have open eyes and try to see clearly for a moment, you can easily recognize that those times have also changed. Today USA is being disrespected by many, there is really nothing that reminds of reminds of a strong lead, and the leaders themselves are perceived rather like a joke...

In essence, there is a huge rise in feminine men and masculine women. The sexual attraction is still there, but it is much weaker than it used to be. Many men are less dominant and less leading. Many men are less horny, many men can't get dates because they are less aggressive and less masculine. And even if they eventually do, their dick won't stand up anyway... Perhaps blue pills will help...?

So maybe learning seduction is a good answer for individual guys - but it may not be the needed solution to lots of arising problems...

 

[Franco]

Tom,

I figured I should probably comment on this thread as I'm probably the most qualified example of why this material is important.

While our way of thinking and views on society align very well, Chase and I have a very different background when it comes to women. While he was somewhat of a troubled, lonely child going through depression all the way through high school, I was actually extremely popular and well-known by everyone at my high school (and even college). I had plenty of friends, participated in athletic sports, joined many organizations, attended a handful of ragers/parties and did just about everything you'd expect a "normal social kid" to do by his early twenties. This even included a few "secretive" trips to Mexico with the boys for under-21 drinking and cheap strip clubs. I've pretty much seen it all.

But you know what I hadn't seen yet? A beautiful girlfriend in my Facebook pictures. I had flirted with tons of girls (as I'm actually naturally quite charming, hence my popularity) and even had girls chasing me, but I COULD NEVER, for the life of me, end up with a girlfriend. I would say I was raised mostly by my mother (who did a great job in my opinion by the way), but the only advice she ever had for me when I asked her about women was, "she's just not the 'one,' don't worry about it. You'll find her!"

Worst. Advice. Ever.

I actually bought into this mentality well into my early 20s because my mom was rather intelligent, and just about every other piece of advice she had given me on anything other than dating/women was on point. I had no reason to doubt her! But for some reason, I still couldn't manage to get girls. I didn't have sex with a girl until I was almost 20, and it simply had to do with the fact that I was getting so sexually frustrated at that point that I just kinda said 'fuck it' and hooked up with some average-looking chick at a "hangout" where me and about 5 other friends were all getting trashed. So here I had put in all this work to become extremely charming and socially adept so that women would flock around me (which they did), and I still couldn't get laid. Yet I spend 2 hours at a hangout with a buddy and meet some random chick who was willing to fuck me right there that night. That's when I had to start questioning things.

While I had seen guys make plenty of progress with women in college by entering giant social circles and at least being more aggressive by pushing for sex, I also noticed that many of them began to fail drastically when taken outside of their social circle. They had no idea how to approach women at bars or out in broad daylight, and while they might have been "studs" in their fraternity life in college, they absolutely suck at meeting women and getting girlfriends after that lifestyle. I know this because one of my current co-workers was a very social guy who was in a fraternity at my college, and ever since his (pretty hot) girlfriend broke up with him his senior year in college, he hasn't been able to get a hot girlfriend since. And that's simply because he never developed an understanding of how to meet NEW women outside of social circles.

The reality of the matter is, you can rely on social circles to meet new women, but social circles do NOT guarantee you sex and/or girlfriends. Do they give you opportunities? Of course they do. But you'll be working PRETTY damn hard to get a girl in your social circle who not only may not be up to par with what you actually WISH you could have, but she also won't view you NEARLY as dominant as a man who has the balls to approach her without having any idea who she is, show his interest, and move things forward at a rate that sweeps her completely off her feet. The men capable of that skill will always have the upper hand.

So what it really comes down to is, do you want to be in CONTROL of your love life for the rest of your life? Or do you want to rely on statistics, probability, and hell of a lot of effort developing social circles in hopes that an attractive girl not only enters your social circle at some point, but is also willing to sleep with you?

I can tell you that I have been down the second route. And after all of my hard work and experiences, I very much prefer the first route.

Remember, part of what Chase's material does is turn you into a genuine man. Whether or not you want to use that ability to give yourself an endless supply of women or just a few social circles and friends so that you can be happy is entirely up to you. At the very minimum, having an understanding that women love men who have great fundamentals and push for sex is an important insight that will get you much further than the "nice guys" out there, so going out and perfecting yourself may not be necessary. You use this material in whatever way you want; the material is here so that you can achieve your own desired goals.

- Franco

 

[Troy]

Mr. Rob,

I won't bother to quote what you already said because I feel insulted. Why answer my question and telling me that I suck? I have been through a lot my entire life. I've been teased, embarrassed and ostracized many times that I prefer not to put myself in dangerous situations that might lead to being rejected. Now that I'm on the board's I prefer not to be ridiculed. I won't go into any details because if I did right now it would just sound like I'm complaining. . If I must be corrected, please make your responses more considerate.

I actually prefer social circle over cold approach. I get the opportunity to meet lots of girls at my school without wasting time because they are like only 10 steps away.

I was referring generally to guys that get this seduction thing wrong and go too far to one side. There are the guys that have no hope in social circle and still remain in that same circle. While there are some guys that abandon their social circle and become a weird PUA guy walking down the street and trying to kiss random women for example.

I'm just generalizing and not picking on anyone including myself.


I'm refraining from saying anything negative here because I don't want to bring bad vibes to the board's. One thing I will say though is that I get a lot of girls calling me cute and attractive but my biggest problem all my life is that I struggle to get any of them to talk with me. It's like their interest is fleeting.

I do have friends but it's like a one sided friendship. I do all the phone calls, texting, and planning events. Me and my friends go out and have a good time. Then the few times they plan something I don't know about it until afterwards. I've lived a life with this going on over and over again. Making close friends who reciprocate interest is not happening for me. But again if we link up we have a good time.

As for me doing day game, I quit doing that about two months now. I don't see the point in stopping people on the road to socialize. People go to social events to socialize, not the street. If I cold approach I do it while waiting at the bus stop and transport centres. I hope that clears up a little of my background to you. I'm still feeling insulted but nevertheless I'll take the constructive criticism out of your comment. Maybe you have a point that I could use to improve myself.

Troy

 

[Mr.Rob]

While there are some guys that abandon their social circle and become a weird PUA guy walking down the street and trying to kiss random women for example.

Whoa bro what are you trying to say? I'm insulted take it back!

I'm kidding .. funny thing is that literally is me.

Maybe you have a point that I could use to improve myself.

Yes, don't take yourself sooo seriously. Rejection is hilarious, acceptance is cool to. People make fun of me, mock me for being a weird PU dude, I do my best to see it from their eyes and laugh at myself in the same way. Actually genuinely finding the humor in my own flaws.Literally life changing as all the petty bullshit that we are taught to care about becomes very trivial and not a big deal.

You see what I did above in bold? If I took my self seriously and had a self-image your comment would've hurt.

If I was serious about that comment don't you think I'd sound stupid? You think I want to be the weird PUA guy? Fuck no! It's just kind of where I'm at in life right now. I could pity myself about it or I could try and find the humor in it and keep doing what I'm doing... no judgment of thyself.

Obviously take the serious parts of your life and treat them accordingly but that accounts for a very small amount of life.

Why answer my question and telling me that I suck?

Because it's the short simple true answer.
You asked "why does seduction have to feel mechanical?".
When you get decent-good at seduction it feels natural.
When you suck it feels mechanical.

Wasn't trying to hurt your feelings dude but I think your a tough enough guy you'll survive

Cheers!

-Rob

 

[PrettyDecent]

Hey Tom, long time bro!

Yes, when you haven't experienced success yet, its easy to doubt whether or not learning seduction is beneficial or possibly necessary.

A level down, you're question is: "does learning seduction reliably produce results for those who learn it?"

And the answer to that is: yes! We've seen it work with multiple people on this board - Chase, Franco, NJ, Anatman, Zphix, etc. They went from getting no action, to living in abundance.

And even further underneath that question, the one that you're REALLY wondering is: "can learning seduction reliably produce results for ME?"

And the answer to that is entirely personal. It depends on sheer hard work and intense analysis, of course. That's the path that every single person on this board who is experiencing success has in common.

Just because you know how to lift weights, doesn't mean you get jacked instantly. It takes time.

~Nick

 

[ray_zorse]

I'm with Mr.Rob, Drck and PD on this one... (and Franco I must admit I was curious about your background so thanks for the interesting portrait)... well I am also the weird PUA loner guy and I kind of like it, the best times I've had have always been by e.g. travelling internationally alone, and outside the comfort zone of travelling with buddies. Same applies to going out to clubs, I usually make a few guy friends here and there although I wouldn't normally exchange numbers, just have fun with them on the night.

I think cold approach is awesome, for one thing it's really fun and for another the occasional rewards are addictive, having said that I haven't gone out cold approaching for a number of weeks. I just open the occasional girl around the uni or in cafes, often situationally, or flirt with attractive female staff*. I haven't been pushing for the numbers or the close lately, due to confidence issues, but even my current level of approaching is 1000x better than it was before I discovered GC, so studying PU is a real win for me.

cheers, Ray

*The other day I was buying a belt, I had about 5min before class and I was wearing one of my killer outfits but had forgotten to put a belt on before leaving home... so called into a trendy shop in the city, found a suitable belt and the register chick was hot. So I told her I really love her outfit. She said "oh, it's just from the shop here" so I replied "oh? how do you get to the shop, in the nude?" and she laughed... then she started cold reading me based on what I was carrying, I felt fantastic. Pity I had to leave then

 

[Troy]

Mr. Rob,

Sorry about that if I insulted you. I didn't mean to insult anyone for what they believe in. I could have put my statement another way. But maybe another time is more suitable. However the main point I have in all that I said are ( in bold, noteworthy ):

I live in a city where everyone is well connected to each other. In my country guys get a bad reputation for going around and doing pua stuff. When I said that it's bad for some guy to go out lone style I meant in terms of seeing him suck at trying to kiss random girls. I have high empathy for people and I don't like to see them fail. That's why I don't like the beginning stages of doing new things. It sucks. As for when I see guys kissing random women I think it's cool.

Finally, location and population is important part to how successful a guy will be at PUA. In a small town a guy has no hope. In a large town he has more hope. My town is relatively big but everyone knows somebody that knows somebody. Reputation is key where I live so going around town and cold approaching girls is a bad thing to do. In my opinion at least. Correct me if I'm wrong guys? I appreciate correction


I think balance is key. Reputation is even more important. If someone has great fundamentals but bad reputation it can hinder him from much success. Moving to a bigger town is what would give me the freedom. If I'm going to be walking on the street and kissing random girls then it needs to be done somewhere that my reputation isn't at stake.

I believe in that to be fully efficient a man SHOULD do cold approach and social circle. It's a win win combination. Certain things a man cannot learn from cold approach that only social circle will teach and vice versa.

Ray_zorse has a good point too that shows how cold approach could be helpful. For things like travelling the world where you will be anonymous to damn near everyone. I hope that clears up what I meant to express . Agree?

Troy

 

[Mr.Rob]

Troy,
You didn't insult me I wrote that as a joke to give you an example between the difference between taking yourself seriously and not really caring either way. If you didn't read all of my last comment I suggest you take a look.

Yeah I am the weird PUA guy but I don't really but a judgment or label on myself I just do what I do and as long as I'm acting from my heart I'm happy.

Yes your right about the small town thing to a certain degree but make sure your not using that as an excuse when you could find ways around it. Whats the population of the place you live?

-Rob

 

[Smith]

Troy,

Finally, location and population is important part to how successful a guy will be at PUA. In a small town a guy has no hope. In a large town he has more hope. My town is relatively big but everyone knows somebody that knows somebody. Reputation is key where I live so going around town and cold approaching girls is a bad thing to do. In my opinion at least. Correct me if I'm wrong guys? I appreciate correction

If your town is relatively big, then your reputation shouldn't be a problem. I have cold approached a lot of girls who happen to be friend of a friend, but the thing is your reputation probably won't take a huge hit even if you're being aggressive. Always be discreet and think about her reputation as well. Try not to escalate in front of her friends. If you do screw up badly (which is pretty unlikely if you read GC), you can always move to a new city and start fresh.

Moving to a big town definitely helps a lot, especially in the beginning, but then as you get more experience, it won't feel like 'cold approaching', it will start to feel natural and you're that cool sexy guy she met at the book store/supermarket/street.

 

[Troy]

Rob wrote:

Yes your right about the small town thing to a certain degree but make sure your not using that as an excuse when you could find ways around it. Whats the population of the place you live?

In my community the population is about 11,000 people ( about 1000 being girls between age 16 and 24 and otherwise elderly people. The guys are around 2700, by far more than girls)

At the community central town it's 5400 girls ( overall population is 9000 )
And the City has about 11,000 girls daily but increases on a Friday ( age 13 to 24 ).

Some additional background why I take a break from cold approach. The numbers sound a lot yeah I know. The city has a heavy traffic of girls at around mid day.. In my country every school wears a uniform so telling who goes to which school is straightforward. I go school in my community so it would be obvious that I leave from my community to go approach girls in another town. The distance is 25 kilometers away. Only the guys that go to school in the city have a genuine reason to be there and talk to girls. Every time I leave from my community after school to go in the city girls ask me why I'm even there in the first place. I have to be on some mission to not make it look obvious that I come in the city everyday just to approach chicks. Let me give an example of when that can be bad:

" A guy goes out alone to a cosmetology show to meet girls. When he arrives he is the only male at the function. All the girls will be wondering why he is into cosmetology shows. Come on now. It's obvious he is there to get laid. And all the girls know that."


It's like that with me. I have to have a reason. I usually lie saying " Oh I live in the area. I stay by my grandmother. Or I say " I come here to pick up some stuff for my mom then head back home. Since I don't got a real reason it's hard to keep up appearances. And going out alone is a drag. Girls ask me why I'm alone and if I'm a loner which just throws me off. I don't know any guys that would be willing to go chat up girls with me. Going out with a wingman would be easier.

 

[Ross]

" A guy goes out alone to a cosmetology show to meet girls. When he arrives he is the only male at the function. All the girls will be wondering why he is into cosmetology shows. Come on now. It's obvious he is there to get laid. And all the girls know that."

Ohh shit. Sounds like a fun situation to be in. Gives me some ideas for attending a few cosmetology shows in my area .

To put this in perspective, me walking into a cosmetology show is like a hot girl in red walking into a car show full of greasers. Any one of those men is going to be receiving a major value hit if the only hot girl in the area goes up to him to chat him up. It's all about fundamentals, my friend.

Even a normal guy in a cosmetology show has a lot of value, unless he opens his mouth in the wrong way a few too many times. Same thing with girls making mistakes, but you wouldn't usually think of it like that because most girls show a much higher social IQ than boys, though we certainly demonstrate the aptitude for dominance.

But how is any boy with a low social IQ going to improve upon it? By sitting at home? Nay; he'll go out and take risks, encounter mistakes, and make progress.

 

[ray_zorse]

My go-to when asked why I am somewhere/alone somewhere is "oh I'm meeting friends, they're not here yet" or "oh I'm meeting friends, I have a bit of time though". Although I basically never lie I consider this acceptable due to deeply ingrained social prejudices against loner guys that killed some interactions when I was starting out, but I am sure there are better ways to deflect the question or turn it back on them.

Anyway this lets u end things easily on a high point if u want.

Ray

 

[Mr.Rob]

Yeah dude you do live in a really small town but if you don't know the girls at the cosmetology shows and on the street and you know you'll never see them again it doesn't matter.

" A guy goes out alone to a cosmetology show to meet girls. When he arrives he is the only male at the function. All the girls will be wondering why he is into cosmetology shows. Come on now. It's obvious he is there to get laid. And all the girls know that."

As aforementioned by Ross that's not an issue. I used to get asked that question all the time. You simply reframe it in a way where it's not creepy "yeah girl I'm 18 and have a high sex drive and overwhelming love for women... naw I'm kidding I'm a misogynist anyway I'm X" doesn't really matter as long as you move the conversation on. It's just a question. A shit test to see if you'll freak out and be at ease in your skin. If your cool with the fact your alone so will she, I promise.