Self-belief creating loser effect avoidance

[Kaida]

The latest article by @Chase hit the nail on the head. It helped me realize that when I fail to approach girls it’s really me avoiding the loser effect due to my overly-ambitious goals.


I’ve been watching a good amount of Tate recently (he’s an amazing orator with phenomenal frame control. I avoid all of his “woman advice” and exaggerated red pill videos however) and recently I’ve been hammering certain beneficial mindsets he’s talked about into myself. Particularly one that says “I am capable of doing absolutely anything I put my mind to”. This mindset does wonders for my confidence, but it also has the negative effect of making my goals too high like it talked about in the article

Even though the mindset is giving me rock-solid confidence, I never have the courage to actually “put my mind to something” or say it out loud and “accomplish it” because I can sense that I’m avoiding the loser effect and the subsequent loss of self that @Will_V recently posted about. If I actually put my mind to something my goal will be sky high due to my current goal and if I don’t reach the goal the loser effect will kick in.

Any ideas on how I combine incrementally goal setting while still having a strong self-belief mindset?

 

[Beck Bass]

It's a tough balance to strike, honestly.
My current take is you just gotta grind, specially after a certain level.

Like you shouldn't care at all about winner/loser effect. Even if the loser effect is in full force over you, you still have a small chance of winning, right? And once you win, you break the streak. So stressing over it and not approaching or trying hard just to not stack loses actually harm you long term, even if it hurts your ego short term.
Also our egos can take way more than we care to admit or think initially. Rejections can sting a lot in the moment, but one or two months after, specially if you got results with a girl of similar or higher value, you won't even care about it (and if you really keep on grinding, you will get). Of course this also depends on your journey long term, maybe you're getting burned out of some many rejections and need to take some time off gaming, but for the most part, if you feel able to keep going, I think you should give it your best and not stress too much about this.

Me myself, for example, I was taking it slow lately (since I just broke up with my girl and I'm very rusty), like last night I went out solo with the goal of being at least 3 hours gaming, approaching a few girls. I actually managed to approach quite a few, and got loads of AIs, even from the hottest girls at the club. But I was kinda trying to protect my ego a bit, I feel like, I was like ok people are reacting good enough to me, I'm able to approach, so that's good for tonight. But then I started feeling bad because I knew I could pull a girl or at least try harder, like put more intent into my approaches, risk myself more, but just wasn't willing to risk this little "victory" of going out by myself and at least being able to stay there and talk to a few people. On my next outings, I'll make sure my goals are way higher and I really put myself out there, because this small stuff is not doing it for me anymore.
So I think you can start having smaller goals when you go out (if you're like a beginner, or out of the game for a while), but eventually you will feel like you can achieve more and should put yourself out there more.

“I am capable of doing absolutely anything I put my mind to”

That's very true, anything is possible, really, and our biggest constraint is time, but most of us have way more than we need for pretty much anything, like think how many days we live, and how much we actually do in our lives, it's crazy how mundane most people are.

I never have the courage to actually “put my mind to something” or say it out loud and “accomplish it”

You deff should try, at least. One thing to keep in mind is, in general, what we achieve tends to be slightly lower than what we really go for, that type of "shoot for the starts to reach the moon" type of thing. So it's not a terrible idea to have ambitious goals and go hard for those, just keep in mind you probably won't get quite there, but if you're happy getting like 80 to 90% there than it's all good.

 

[Will_V]

The latest article by @Chase hit the nail on the head. It helped me realize that when I fail to approach girls it’s really me avoiding the loser effect due to my overly-ambitious goals.


I’ve been watching a good amount of Tate recently (he’s an amazing orator with phenomenal frame control. I avoid all of his “woman advice” and exaggerated red pill videos however) and recently I’ve been hammering certain beneficial mindsets he’s talked about into myself. Particularly one that says “I am capable of doing absolutely anything I put my mind to”. This mindset does wonders for my confidence, but it also has the negative effect of making my goals too high like it talked about in the article

Even though the mindset is giving me rock-solid confidence, I never have the courage to actually “put my mind to something” or say it out loud and “accomplish it” because I can sense that I’m avoiding the loser effect and the subsequent loss of self that @Will_V recently posted about. If I actually put my mind to something my goal will be sky high due to my current goal and if I don’t reach the goal the loser effect will kick in.

Any ideas on how I combine incrementally goal setting while still having a strong self-belief mindset?

Start small, like cleaning up the backyard, doing some admin you've been avoiding, scheduling something you've already decided to do and sticking to it.

Start off with things that you can say and then do immediately in 15-30 minutes. When you can do a day of that, go to week long tasks. And so on.

It's not about battering your ego right away, it's about being decisive about your choices and training your mind and body to respond immediately. A part of you will take pride in that, no matter how small the thing is, even if it makes you angry to do it. And that's what you build on.

 

[HoofHearted]

There's a little too much jargon and mental masturbation in this for my liking.

I feel i have done incredible things in the last 6 months, and each peak has been higher than the last.

How? I washed the dishes. I vacuumed. I did laundry. I took a walk. I drank more water. I went to social night. I talked to many people. I got two phone numbers from girls. I...

You may not see the inter-relatedness of these actions. But I promise you it's there.

Each action added momentum. The effects got larger and the efforts got easier. It's like dancing forward and doing acrobatics on balance... the momentum itself keeps you upright, until you yourself become a force.

The feedback loop was the effect the actions had on my emotions, on my internal state. Have you ever noticed how life changes when your house is clean? Go clean your house, then go out into the world, and report back.

There is a master secret to be learned. But first of all, yes, doing the dishes makes you feel better, which as I've suggested allows you to do more in life. You feel better; you are changed.

But the master secret is this: there is an actionable aspect of thinking. We may not control which thoughts arise in our mind... but we do control which ones blossom under the gaze of our own focus. We choose certain thoughts from among the lot of them to get nurtured. Which thoughts we embrace define our baseline, and to change them is the most immediate, fundamental, tangible change. And allows real change to occur.

This is the first dish.

 

[Destiny]

This mindset does wonders for my confidence

I never have the courage to actually “put my mind to something”

That's the difference between ego and actual confidence. You're constantly hitting yourself with the losers effect by not actually trying anyways, because you already feel like you're losing when you don't try.

Put in another way, you're already getting hit with the loser effect when you want someone but don't try for it, so go for it anyways.

Right now I feel like the real reason isn't avoiding the loser effect, but avoiding damage to your mental self image you built up.

Focus your goals on the bigger picture you can control through your own actions instead of each individual girl "I can learn to get girls I want" is a more valid goal than "I can get that specific girl right now" because the 1st depends on your own practice while the latter relies too much on luck.

focusing too much on building up confidence and mindsets without actually approaching and getting results can do that to people, swinggcat mentions it in real world seduction.

Aside from that, wins and losses are not always equal.

Small losses from rejections are not even close to the big wins you can get from a successful seduction. Lots of us can talk about the big win we got that lead us to go out day after day to rack up more rejections for the next lay.

For example, @Gunwitch talked about how getting a lay on his first approach lead him through the many rejections he racked up afterwards while still learning.

 

[Kaida]

Start small, like cleaning up the backyard, doing some admin you've been avoiding, scheduling something you've already decided to do and sticking to it.

Start off with things that you can say and then do immediately in 15-30 minutes. When you can do a day of that, go to week long tasks. And so on.

It's not about battering your ego right away, it's about being decisive about your choices and training your mind and body to respond immediately. A part of you will take pride in that, no matter how small the thing is, even if it makes you angry to do it. And that's what you build on.

Ahh okay. So the concept is gradual escalation, and you’ll eventually hard condition yourself into making your word iron.

Thanks for your response. I get in the habit of battering my ego. I think its because I keep trying to skip steps in my seduction journey but life keeps showing me it doesnt work that way.

In the beginning stages of me learning this new skill, I’m already messing up a bit. I need to strt watching what I say more.

I’ll say something like “I will clean…” and then after it leaves my mouth I remember that I just locked myself into it. It’ll take some getting used to.

Now people will probably start hearing me use more words like “I’ll try”, “maybe”, and “no promises” instead of saying “I will” lol

quick question: when by yourself, do you say what you want to do out loud in order to solidify it or do you just make a mental note to do it.

 

[Will_V]

Ahh okay. So the concept is gradual escalation, and you’ll eventually hard condition yourself into making your word iron.

Thanks for your response. I get in the habit of battering my ego. I think its because I keep trying to skip steps in my seduction journey but life keeps showing me it doesnt work that way.

In the beginning stages of me learning this new skill, I’m already messing up a bit. I need to strt watching what I say more.

I’ll say something like “I will clean…” and then after it leaves my mouth I remember that I just locked myself into it. It’ll take some getting used to.

Now people will probably start hearing me use more words like “I’ll try”, “maybe”, and “no promises” instead of saying “I will” lol

quick question: when by yourself, do you say what you want to do out loud in order to solidify it or do you just make a mental note to do it.

Out loud. If someone's around, tell them.

It's not complicated. If you can move your arm and shake your leg, you can say something and then do it. Enough thinking, time to start getting stuff done.

 

[Rakehell]

Chasing feelings, confidence, trying to force beliefs, motivation, etc, I’ve found is like trying to hold onto water.

It’s going against the flow of life, like trying to swim upstream the river of whatever it is you’re predisposed to feeling.

And after all of that you still have to climb the mountain of whatever it is you're hoping to achieve.

In the end you have to do the things despite whatever it is youre feeling. Flow with the river, climb the mountain.

Then look back & say ya did it. No point in swimming upstream, when you’ll have to swim back the other way toward the mountain of whatever it is.

Despite this being potentially motivating, I wouldn’t let it be, because water is meant to flow. Motivation, self belief, is meant to come and go.

And its a good thing!! Its what provokes you to go and do things thatll get you those feelings.