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Sex - big deal...?

Drck

Cro-Magnon Man
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Just curious, why is sex considered such a big deal?

IMO, if a guy doesn't see anything special in sex he wouldn't put a high value on it. He would care less whether the girl sleeps with him or not, he would care less whether he messes up somewhere or not... which would actually make him much more attractive, less needy - thus more likely to get sex...

So is sex overrated? In which way is sex more special than jerking off in a bathroom?
 
a good date brings a smile to your lips... and hers

Smurf

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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First time I had it it wasn't a big deal. It was alright.

Second time I had it it was alright.

Third time was a bit better, and that's when I really wanted to please the girl.

I don't find the act of sex to be all that great, because it's not. What I find great is that the girl is partaking in it, and half of it is her liking me in that way, and then the other half is me pleasuring her. I almost get off on her getting off, if that makes sense.\

So to me it's different in those ways, the act itself is really not something to put extreme importance on though, I agree.

Jake.
 

Franco

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Drck,

I think it's mostly scarcity.

If any guy could come home to three girls greeting him at the door offering him sex every single day, he would probably never chase sex or talk about sex. It would be something he just routinely does every day, like brushing his teeth or going to the bathroom.

When you have guys in this era that are reaching their 20s without even experiencing sex once, sex suddenly becomes this huge pot of gold that forever seems difficult to reach. And even if they end up getting one "coin" from the pot of gold, they relish it and put it on a pedestal as something that took ages of blood, sweat, and tears to get, so they don't want to lose it.

- Franco
 

Xerud

Space Monkey
space monkey
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For me it was big deal because I watched to much porn, I couldn't get it hard, I fucked her in some rocks and I was little scared because I didn't saw a shit. So haha I've made bad decision to fuck in some bushes :)
 

Smith

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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I think it's more than just having abundance. I have recently realized how important it is to be grounded in your purpose. It's almost like if you got a problem, then you should get a bigger problem, so that girls don't seem like a big deal anymore. Of course, I don't want anyone to take this the wrong way and use it as an excuse to ignore the dating part of your life and not creating any action. Still go out and meet girls too, but develope core autonomy at the same time so you're more well rounded. =)
 

Indian Race Troll (IRT)

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Drck said:
Just curious, why is sex considered such a big deal?

IMO, if a guy doesn't see anything special in sex he wouldn't put a high value on it. He would care less whether the girl sleeps with him or not, he would care less whether he messes up somewhere or not... which would actually make him much more attractive, less needy - thus more likely to get sex...

So is sex overrated? In which way is sex more special than jerking off in a bathroom?

I am in that situation right now and I think it is the intimacy and validation, feeling the body of a hot girl and having her grind on you along with kissing her and licking her as you pound that pussy. BTW, I am a virgin and I've tried to not give a fuck for months but at times I feel like some of us might not be meant to have success with women.

:(
 

Lotus

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I used to be able to relate to sex being not that big of a deal... feeling wise.( before it was always the validation)

But now I genuinely enjoy the pleasure involved in the act 100x more.

Being present in the moment while penetrating a girl and having your bodies rubbing against each other in full passion.... There's not much else in that replicates that feeling. Jerking off in the bathroom certainly allows for the release but it doesn't feel the same. I wouldn't even consider the emotions involved comparable in my opinion... but again that was only recently.
 

Drck

Cro-Magnon Man
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Makes you also wonder about the whole relationship philosophy... If we men, in general, stop chasing women, the whole situation would turn 180 degrees - they would be chasing us because they need us much more than we need them.

A guy sees pretty girl. In his mind, he has the need to "get her", "have her", be connected with her emotionally, feel the sweet feelings (love), have sex with her, have family with her, protect her and so on. That's a normal mind set of a normal guy. All these things are important to him, which unfortunately places very high value on this pretty female...

But do we really need a woman? We don't. We don't need to "have" her, as a matter of fact, I believe that once a guy becomes more independent and less needy, and more self-sufficient, he has no need to have classical family. Once he is more mature he doesn't need to be emotionally connected.... I went through love several times, and my current believe is that I don't really need it. I don't even want that sweet feelings of love anymore. I can survive on my own in a city, on an island, or in wilderness. I can get a good job, or with some basic tools that I can build myself I can protect myself from most dangerous animals. I have skills to build many useful tools to make my life easier, and I know that most guys can do the same.

On the other hand, girls really need us. They can't live without us men: They need somebody to protect them from bad people, they need protection from wild animals. They wouldn't survive in nature for too long. They need somebody to build a house for them. They can get decent jobs today - thanks to men that allowed it - but there are still many jobs they can't simply do no matter what. They also need sex, not just for pleasure like we guys, but mainly to have children as that is their biological drive which we men don't have...

So if I can put it in numbers and generalize it, say that men are 80% self-sufficient, and they "need" women only for the 20%. But women truly NEED men 80%, and they are self sufficient only 20%...


Can you even imagine a society where not a single man is chasing woman, no matter how pretty she is? Where each man's primary focus is his own life, his health and wealth - while ignoring all females? I can, you guys most likely can't because you are busy working on seduction. There would be tons of girls going after each man, begging for attention and protection of herself and her child.... They would be begging for and offering free sex, they would be begging for simple roof above her head, bringing to the table seduction skills which we males can't even comprehend...

In such society, Males would need 0-10% seduction skills and effort. Females would need 90-100% seduction skills and effort. Unfortunately, in current society it is the exact opposite because, somehow, an average male believes that he "needs" to have a woman in his life... Anyway, I would call such society: Piece of Heavens on Earth...

Just a thought :)
 

Drck

Cro-Magnon Man
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Hi Altair, don't give up man, keep rolling...

Try moderate approach. If you don't do anything, chances are that nothing will happen. If you do too much, you will be easily perceived as needy and chase-y, hungry for women... women can feel it, and once they feel it they simply run away... So you can't really do much, you can't go overboard with seduction...

In analogy, if you don't go to fitness you will never make any progress. If you do too much, if you go there and try to lift the heaviest weights with the most reps all the time, you will burn yourself down very fast. You'll go twice-three times, and you will never come back, you will be hating fitness... Moderate approach is more about being consistent and persistent: You always go 3-4 times per week, and you go week after week, month after month. You always lift some weights, even if it is mild or moderate. And once in a while, you simply try your best... That's the key to success...

So just relax, "be around" girls physically, talk to them, joke with them, tell them something about you, listen to them, make some inappropriate comments here and there so they know you are not afraid of them... and you'll be fine.
 

Franco

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Drck,

Can you even imagine a society where not a single man is chasing woman, no matter how pretty she is? Where each man's primary focus is his own life, his health and wealth - while ignoring all females? I can, you guys most likely can't because you are busy working on seduction. There would be tons of girls going after each man, begging for attention and protection of herself and her child.... They would be begging for and offering free sex, they would be begging for simple roof above her head, bringing to the table seduction skills which we males can't even comprehend...

Yes, I can imagine this, and it would probably be true. But I don't spend much time thinking about it because it's never going to happen -- at least not in our lifetime. =)

- Franco
 

Chase

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Sex will always be a big deal.

Sure, we do noble things like make art and enjoy fine dining and go on adventures, but we're more or less gene vehicles. Some of us don't produce offspring but contribute to the species in other ways, like invent things (Tesla) or contribute ideas (Newton) or art (Da Vinci). Or just the guy that does his small part to contribute to society and the economy by working and creating value, then one day dying and leaving his estate to his nieces and nephews or, if they don't exist, to the state.

For most people though, their greatest contribution to the species will be their offspring.

The higher genetic quality their mate, the more superior their offspring.

Because mate quality is so difficult to assess (people lie and inflate mate value any way they can - makeup, clothes, hair, money, game, status, etc.) and happens across so many different dimensions (looks, health, height, intellect, savvy, charisma, creativity, etc.), sex becomes a delicate dance where members of the opposite sex are scrutinizing one another and using offers they've accepted or rebuffed to increase their apparent mate value and get access to even better mating options (e.g., pretty girl gets seen rejecting a bunch of guys - she must be high status and a high caliber mate; cool guy is known to sleep with lots of hot girls - he must have something special about him).

For women, the balance of power shifts dramatically after sex:

Commitment Points: Why You Must Avoid

Once she's sleeping with you, she's more or less stamped you with "Approved for Mating", because at any time, really, you could get her pregnant. Take off the condom, forget to put one on, put one on shoddily and it slips off mid-act, put on a defective one (or one that's too small or too large) that breaks mid-act, go raw but get too excited and fail to pull out, go raw and drip some pre-cum into her, plan on using the Plan B pill but don't use it within 24 hours and efficacy drops to 90% or lower (only 70% if used 72 hours later)... a hundred ways she could end up with your baby in her belly. And once it's there, all bets are off what you do. First world countries lower risk for single mothers by giving them ways to enforce child support payments from fathers, but even then, no guarantee you'll be able to make him pay, and parenting is arguably much more important than financial payments, and no one can force the guy to be a dad.

This reality impacts how sex affects women's social status, with women who hook up easily and a lot essentially telling anyone who will listen "Hey, almost any guy is good enough to make ME pregnant!" which communicates low mate value. Thus, most girls want to restrict their hooking up, while every guy wants to sleep with a girl who sleeps around, but no one wants to marry her, and every girl will mercilessly slut-shame her to differentiate herself and imply that she isn't like that (in other words, that she is picky about mates, and thus high mate value, and thus deserving of a high mate value male).

This also impacts men's status, because if a guy sleeps with lots of girls, that means a lot of girls have stamped him "Genetically Approved." Which means even more women will now want him for their mate. And the hotter and more desirable and less-slutty the women who've stamped him as such, the higher value women presume he must be (thus, why if you tell a new girlfriend that your ex-girlfriend was a raging slut who cheated on you mercilessly she'll recoil in disgust at what a low mate-value man her boyfriend is, whereas if you tell a girlfriend your ex-girlfriend was a beautiful girl with only 2 prior partners, who doted on you and held you in high-esteem, she feels confident her man is a high value one).

That puts men and women into a battle where women's statuses go down as they have sex (unless the man can sleep with her totally discreetly... "off the books" - then he "doesn't count"), while men's go up. The more men a woman sleeps with, the more her ultimate potential mate quality drops (to an extent... she also gets more charisma, bedrooms skills, etc., that help compensate), while the more women a man sleeps with, the more his ultimate potential mate quality rises.

The only time you find sex not a big deal is in communities where sex is divorced from reproduction, like the gay community, where men can not uncommonly have 1000+ lifetime partners if they live in big cities. Even then, it's still kind of a big deal, in that it's something people want a lot and go after a lot. And the pill / condoms don't change this for male-female sex, because even if you can prevent pregnancy, that doesn't mean you will... women are terrible about taking their pills on time, and just because a guy says he'll pull out doesn't mean he will.

Ultimately... until we start budding again or we all turn asexual, sex'll be a big deal.

Chase
 

Jason

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Drck said:
Makes you also wonder about the whole relationship philosophy... If we men, in general, stop chasing women, the whole situation would turn 180 degrees - they would be chasing us because they need us much more than we need them.

A guy sees pretty girl. In his mind, he has the need to "get her", "have her", be connected with her emotionally, feel the sweet feelings (love), have sex with her, have family with her, protect her and so on. That's a normal mind set of a normal guy. All these things are important to him, which unfortunately places very high value on this pretty female...

But do we really need a woman? We don't. We don't need to "have" her, as a matter of fact, I believe that once a guy becomes more independent and less needy, and more self-sufficient, he has no need to have classical family. Once he is more mature he doesn't need to be emotionally connected.... I went through love several times, and my current believe is that I don't really need it. I don't even want that sweet feelings of love anymore. I can survive on my own in a city, on an island, or in wilderness. I can get a good job, or with some basic tools that I can build myself I can protect myself from most dangerous animals. I have skills to build many useful tools to make my life easier, and I know that most guys can do the same.

On the other hand, girls really need us. They can't live without us men: They need somebody to protect them from bad people, they need protection from wild animals. They wouldn't survive in nature for too long. They need somebody to build a house for them. They can get decent jobs today - thanks to men that allowed it - but there are still many jobs they can't simply do no matter what. They also need sex, not just for pleasure like we guys, but mainly to have children as that is their biological drive which we men don't have...

So if I can put it in numbers and generalize it, say that men are 80% self-sufficient, and they "need" women only for the 20%. But women truly NEED men 80%, and they are self sufficient only 20%...


Can you even imagine a society where not a single man is chasing woman, no matter how pretty she is? Where each man's primary focus is his own life, his health and wealth - while ignoring all females? I can, you guys most likely can't because you are busy working on seduction. There would be tons of girls going after each man, begging for attention and protection of herself and her child.... They would be begging for and offering free sex, they would be begging for simple roof above her head, bringing to the table seduction skills which we males can't even comprehend...

In such society, Males would need 0-10% seduction skills and effort. Females would need 90-100% seduction skills and effort. Unfortunately, in current society it is the exact opposite because, somehow, an average male believes that he "needs" to have a woman in his life... Anyway, I would call such society: Piece of Heavens on Earth...

Just a thought :)


Wow. That was one of the most well thought out and incredibly realistic and rational posts I've ever read regarding men and women relations throughout the world. Thank you for that gem brother. I agree 1000%
 

Ezio

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When you posted this, Drck, I was thinking to reply with almost 100% what Chase said.

Bitter or not, the very true truth is that we are nothing more than gene vehicles. Our only purpose in life is to reproduce. Almost everything else is tied to that, if not everything. So, in fact, the real truth about the purpose of life is that there isn't any purpose. Our purpose in life is no different than that of a bacteria's.

This is the scariest thing I realized. Being such a scary thing to know, our minds create different illusions in order to divert this truth.

Yes, we create goals like aiming to be a great actor, singer, physician or become a millionaire, and I understand them all, but these in fact are only illusions or if one has geniune desires to create something, those would be merely attempts to create better enviroments for better potential offsprings to be produced, which is corely connected to the purpose of reproducing. Some might have geniune curiosity to know about something, like exploring the space, and they could get very commited to that, but without fulfilling the genetic need of reproducing, with any possible exception, most of them are not truly happy and they live in denial. You know Nerdy Virgin Nice Guys? You could argue with them all day and they would keep telling you that they don't care about girls because they care more about learning at school. They are lying and they won't admit it to you and themselves. I know this, because I have been a nerd myself. They are not happy. They dream of sex, they are craving it, but yet they repress themselves. Which means that whatever they pretend to be, their DNA boss kicks in. This leads us to sexual repression.Sexual repression is the most dangerous of all. It creates monstrums-pedophilia, incest, raping, in some cases even homosexuality, are results of sexual repression, but until now, I have not seen anybody giving that much importance to sexual repression. It can also lead people to mental disorders. Which leads us to= yes, sex is actually a big deal, and it can turn into some sort of disease if not treated. Because of the fact that it is a biological need just like breathing, eating, drinking water, means that if you don't give that to your body, you will start to feel sick.


So, what is going underneath, is that no matter how far we run, we will always come back to sex. "Not everything is about sex, but everything ends with sex"- a singer in my country, sings it. How much you can control it, depends on how much you get. Like thirst or hunger. We think we can control it, but actually at some point we can't. The same way our mind creates illusions to divert us from some truth, just that way, our mind creates other illusions to make sure we always get back to sex. We then start to think with our dick.

"In which way is sex more special than jerking off in a bathroom?"- Virgins and I being a virgin, can answer to this best. The physical sensations and experience that you get while penetrating a female are deeply printed into our genetical code, and as much as we can try to fool our mind with other sexual stimulations, you will not manage to fool it for a long time. When reality hits you, you crave the sensation of your balls hitting her soft ass and filling your chest with her upper body and hearing her sexy moaning while having your head cheek to cheek. Dominance is also a primary need for a man. It is fully fulfilled only through sexual dominance. We NEED to make the female energy to submit to us. When you have your dick inside a girl and you are close to orgasm, you get an indescribable feeling of importance, confidence, worthiness, manliness, dominance, that you cannot get in that intensity from only jerking off. As a practical example, I would mention one when a man who was very unmanly, pussy, taking everybody's shit, once he fucks some girls or once he gets married, he starts to raise his voice and feels more entitled and behaves cockier. The underlying reason why he feels like that is merely the pussy he fucks.

The interesting thing is that this is different between men who get a lot of sex, men who do less, and men who do not get any at all. It is the same with hunger or thirst. It is different for somebody who has not eaten since a month compared to someone who only skipped two meals at a particular day. The intensity of hunger differs and no matter how much of an empathic and relating person you are, you can't comprehend the intensity that the starving person is experiencing.

What is more interesting is that when the starving man eats enough and gets rid of his hunger and the other one who was eating enough so far, stops eating for a month and he reaches the point of starving, and then he complains to the previous starving man who now has his stomach full, what happens is that even though the previous starving man was at the same intensity of hunger, he would not still be able to comprehend that intensity mentally, even if one month ago he was feeling the same. Perhaps, apparently, our mental capacity as human beings is only able to comprehend the current reality.

Therefore, importance put on sex varies between persons, especially when it comes to virgins-and it is tricky for a man who has enough food on his table and has his stomach full to understand the one who is looking from the other side of the window, left only in the aroma and sight of the food while starving for a tiny piece of it, even if just to see what it tastes like. So, when a man has enough basic food in his stomach(sex), he could be curious to try other kinds of food like chips, sweeties etc..(jerking off, sex toys and so) but when he is not getting that basic healthy food, in no time he will get frustrated and sick. Then, he loses control over it, goes off the road, gets confused, does not have enough desire and motivation to follow the logical goals, until he gets that need met. Starving is more intense than being horny but I think you get my point.

And so it goes. The way life works. Sometimes I think that at some point, we are slaves of our DNA and biological needs. I wonder if people would get castrated, how faster and easier their journey towards their logical goals in life would be.

-Ezio.
 

Drck

Cro-Magnon Man
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True. I tent to agree more with Franco, it is about scarcity. If a guy doesn't get laid and he really wants to, he is most likely trying too hard. Chances are that he is chasing, he is too anxious, he does too many things to get that girl, he appears too perfect and so on. So he basically puts too much value on sex...

----------

Ezio: "So, in fact, the real truth about the purpose of life is that there isn't any purpose. Our purpose in life is no different than that of a bacteria's. ... This is the scariest thing I realized. Being such a scary thing to know, our minds create different illusions in order to divert this truth"

Yep, that's quite a deep though, agreed. From this point of view we can actually claim that most people are just hallucinating, dreaming, by constant imagining of different things and of future we are creating "realities" - that don't really exist... We humans are Dreamers, through our imagination we fool ourselves into better worlds...

Who said there are rich and poor people? Who said we have to work 8-4, and to be successful? Who said we have to reach moon, build tall buildings, have $$$ for retirement, have good grades in college, get laid by age 21, or have president and/or nation? Who said that money have some Value? Who said that we have to nail that 9/10 to be happy? All these are just mass hallucinations, voluntary illusions of our minds. We BELIEVE that these things are important, we want them to be real because we are afraid of the true reality...

We imagine that all these things as real, sometimes we assign them high value - and if they then don't fit into our imagination, we get mad, upset, stressed and depressed...

So we are chasing things that are not real, we are imagining better worlds because we are simply trying to avoid the real one...

We can ask in the same way, from this point of view: is there a God? Is there some higher Justice, better Life after this one, Heavens with everlasting happy Life? All this might be just an illusion, just a simple desire to avoid the pain and emptiness of the real world...
 
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