Casual/FWB She won't stop playing games

[rideordie28]

This is my 1st post so I just wanted to say I've been reading the archives literally non-stop the last 3 days and probably read 100 articles. I think this site is amazing and it's really pinpointed a ton of the specific issues I've been having where I've not been able to find answers anywhere else. So in short, I think you guys are incredible and wanted to make sure you knew the work you are doing is heavily appreciated.

I have this one specific sticking point and it's been plaguing me for quite some time now. I can get girls interested in hooking up with me, almost never go on dates to get bangs, but right after the first time we have sex, the girls start to try to manipulate me into becoming their boyfriend.

To give you a short background about me ... I don't really ever approach which I know is hurting me a ton, but I still get new lays somewhat consistently because I run a webcam studio so I basically have a revolving door of girls coming and going. I'm 30 years old, I live in a beach house by myself in Southern California, I've made my money independently, I drive a luxury car and I am well traveled. I feel like these things are really hurting me because I cannot get regular sex from the same girl whatsoever. I've tried showing more interest in them after sex and this gets them to try to use the sex as a weapon against me, and I've tried to show little to no interest after sex and then they just go into auto-rejection.

Do I need to move to a run down apartment and get a shitty car? How do I keep getting regular sex from them without having them try to manipulate me into being their boyfriend? I'd be open to potentially having a relationship with some of these girls, but that can't happen until I've known them for at least 6 months--however we never get that far because they just won't stop playing games and trying to get me to chase them which always ruins it and then we just don't hook up again despite the fact that I know they are still into me.

This one specific girl I've been working on...We hooked up twice, both times the sex was incredible. She said she hasn't done it for that long in quite a while (we went for like two hours each time...like 30 minutes each time was spent giving me head (I didn't go down on her) and I dropped my load on her face both times). The second time, she said she needs to come over here more often and suggested that we be friends with benefits. Anyways, after the second time, I ended up being really busy for like 4 or 5 days and was really slow to respond to her and avoided being at the studio the times I knew she would be there. Then she started to go kinda silent so I realized she was going into auto-rejection. I contacted her and told her I didn't mean to be such an asshole and that I knew she felt rejected because of it, so I said that I was sorry. Then told her I just hate when girls play games and said that if she did that I'd be gone so quick. I think I might have been a little incongruent with it when I said it as for some reason I felt kinda nervous and it just didn't come out right. She said that I definitely didn't make her feel rejected and that she had just been busy, so felt like that one kinda blew up in my face...I guess it gave her some hand as now when I try to get her over for sex, she tries to make me work harder for it and she gives me shit tests a lot more.

I don't really care about how to fix it with this one girl, but I really need to know what I'm doing wrong and why I can't seem to get girls coming back after hooking up with them once. I feel like my value is sky high and that I've lost literally hundreds of girls in the past because I appeared too unattainable to them. Didn't learn that til just the other day reading this site so I'm doing things differently now. I just don't understand why if my value appears as high as I believe it does (compared to 90% of the guys who live in this area), why is it that although I seem to frequently get girls chasing me before we have sex, I never have the girls chasing me after we have sex? I see girls going crazy to connect with certain guys but they always seem to go cold on me almost immediately after sex. I guess because they seem afraid to screw things up with me? I just don't get how to avoid either responding too little and having her go into auto-rejection, or responding too much and giving away hand. I really want them just chasing after me and acting crazy wanting to see me yet I can't seem to figure out how to do that.

I'm probably around a 6.5 in the looks department and not muscular at all. The majority of the girls I'm going for are 8s and 9s. I know that might affect your guys advice a little so just wanted to point that out. Please help!

 

[Franco]

rideordie,

How do I keep getting regular sex from them without having them try to manipulate me into being their boyfriend? I'd be open to potentially having a relationship with some of these girls, but that can't happen until I've known them for at least 6 months--however we never get that far because they just won't stop playing games and trying to get me to chase them which always ruins it and then we just don't hook up again despite the fact that I know they are still into me.

Well, the first thing I have to mention is that, if you're thinking a girl is going to give you 6 months of her own time for you to decide whether or not you want a relationship, then you're absolutely kidding yourself. Girls are always on the clock when it comes to finding a guy (because they know age and time is something that is in short supply for them), so if you can't come to a decision within an average of about 3 months (give or take 2 depending on the girl and how well you handle her), you can definitely expect her to go into auto-rejection and move on to more promising prospects.

It was a bit unclear in your post where your problem is. Is your problem that girls are trying to tie you down into relationships after hooking up for awhile (maybe a few weeks or a few months), or are they only hooking up with you one time and then pushing for a relationship? If it's the latter, then there are only two possibilities:

• 1) You are showing to much provider potential. This one you've already pointed out, and it's very possible that a single, successful guy who owns a beach house in Southern California will have a tough time downplaying his value to women. So yes, in a sense, that does hurt you somewhat if you are just wanting casual relationships. Once you've slept with a girl that sees provider potential in you, she will do her absolute best to try to move things forward with you as quickly as possible.
  
  2) You are sleeping with girls who have boyfriends. I only say this one because I noticed you had another post mentioning that the majority of the girls you are sleeping with already have boyfriends. The problem with sleeping with girls like this is that there is no way they are going to be open to having ongoing affairs with you (especially if they are young and inexperienced) while risking the relationship they are already in. So instead, what they might do is have a quick roll in the hay with you and then immediately try to see if you will be exclusive to them. They have to determine this immediately because, if you won't, then they don't want to leave their current boyfriend and risk being left without him OR you. It's a big risk (in their minds) to do something like that, so generally they have to either completely decide against it or make absolutely sure that it's going somewhere before offering more of their time to you.

Anyway, if you are working with webcam girls, then it means you are working with a complete set of outliers that aren't going to give you an accurate picture of what most men encounter with women. If you were to start cold approaching women in the streets or in bars, you would probably experience completely different results with girls as they won't be in extremely unique situations like the ones you are dealing with. Most webcam girls have boyfriends (because they are obviously attractive if they are on a webcam) and are just using the webcam as a way to make money. And of course, a lot of their boyfriends know nothing of their webcam ways (although some might, but usually most guys can't deal with that type of relationship). So it might be worthwhile to begin approaching women outside of your job so that you can get an accurate picture of what it is like to deal with a woman who is not in a unique situation. The other option is to keep trying to tie down these webcam girls, but you're going to get a very mixed bag of results because of the situations these girls are in.

EDIT: As an added note, if a girl is willing to expose herself on a webcam, there's also a greater chance she could be a Cluster B type of girl, and the type of girl that wouldn't be worth taking into a relationship in the first place.

- Franco

 

[rideordie28]

Hi Franco,

Thanks for posting your opinion.

I'm really not sure what the problem is still though. It's like ... I was showing basically no interest in a lot of girls for a long time, even the ones I really liked. Eventually we'd still hook up though, one in particular, I would have given her a chance to become my girlfriend because it was obvious she really liked me. She went so far as leaving a rose in my apartment and suggesting to me that I have a secret admirer when it was her. She seemed a little strange, but I liked a lot about her... we hooked up once and then I went on a trip over the weekend. When I came back 3 days later on Sunday night I invited her over and she was just basically cold. I wanted to keep hooking up with her and see where it went but everytime I'd invite her over or invite her out she'd always decline. So eventually I got agitated and stopped talking to her, but still when I see her and I'm with other girls she acts very rude to the girls by giving them dirty looks and trying to scare them away or something.

This other girl I decided to show interest in sex with her very soon verbally, and we hooked up a couple times, then I showed a bit less interest after we hooked up and it seemed like she went into auto-rejection. So I tried to let her know I still wanted to see her to try to get her out of it, but now it feels like she thinks she has the upper hand and has been turning down my offers to come hang out or even to go out and grab food and pointing out to me subtly that she knows I want her. I don't deny it and I remain non-needy and completely calm when she does this but no idea what that's making her think.

Not all these girls are webcam girls, but they are all crazy and damaged it seems. I haven't met one who wasn't in quite a while.

You said I might be showing too much provider potential but I really never buy them anything and am generally not very nice to them. I have no idea if I'm showing too much interest or too little interest. I'm not really even that worried about casual relationships, just all the advice I read says that if I look for a girlfriend I'm not going to find one. I assumed getting into the casual relationship first was going to segue into finding a girlfriend.

I don't know how to find the balance between too little and too much interest I guess... I'm very confused.

 

[Franco]

RoD,

How you treat a girl after you hook up with her determines much of how her behavior will be toward you afterward. Generally, aloofness is better before you sleep with her but extra warmth and attention is important afterward.

On this website, we generally recommend that guys send a text along the lines of, "Hey Janet, I had a great time last night. I hope I didn't keep you up too late " the next morning after sleeping with a girl. This makes her feel like you didn't treat her as just a sexual object for a one-time roll in the hay that meant nothing more to you than getting your rocks off.

After that, it's generally recommended that you should contact this girl again within 3 to 5 days after sending that text (at most) to let her know you want to continue to see her. From that point forward, you just need to continue to see the girl at least once a week for a few months until she brings up the topic of a relationship, and then you move things forward from there.

As far as the girls who are trying to take you into a relationship almost immediately, it's up to you whether or not you want to do that. In general, you should know after 1 or 2 dates with a girl whether or not she's the type of girl that you'd want to take into a long-term relationship. There's usually just a "spark" there because you two have similar personalities or interests that just mesh well together, so you'll know it when you feel it. If you think it's going to take you 6 months to figure that out, then it simply means you just don't know what you want, which is not an attractive trait to women. In that regard, you might want to make a list of all the women you've liked and write down the qualities that you enjoyed the most about them. Then next time you're screening a girl as a possible relationship partner, see how many of those qualities she has.

Again, the pool of women you might be dipping into might contain lots of women in extreme situations, so you're going to encounter uncommon occurrences. Some girls will be overly warm after you sleep with them, and some might go completely cold on you. It still might be best to learn to cold approach other women so you can get an idea of how a relationship develops regularly so that you don't develop a skewed mindset of how most women behave with men.

- Franco