FR++ She's just not that into you..?

[jdoc]

Hey fellas,

Another FR coming right up. This is my third ever pull. Read about the lead up to this girl here... I actually bumped into her on the street twice: FR: Pole dancer: bumped into her twice in a row. https://boards.girlschase.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11465

Jess ended up flaking on me last minute 20 minutes before our arranged date. She said that she was sick and forgot to tell me she couldn't make it. She felt genuinely bad that she didn't show up. We ended up re-arranging. We meet at a cafe close to where she lives. She's about 5'10 (I'm 5'5) and she's got a bangin' blond bombshell body. I try not to let her looks intimidate me.

I'm standing near the cafe on the phone to my friend, whilst Jess walks towards me from a distance. I pretend not to notice her. She then stops right by me and I tell my friend that I have to go. I say hello to Jess and we hug. We then walk into the cafe and order our coffees. We sit down and talk about ourselves. She's wearing moderately heavy make-up and a dressed-down outfit (a hoodie). I deep-dive about her accent, her origins, her ambitions (she has none), what her personality is like at parties (loud and extroverted). The vibe seems slightly tense and unnatural - I think much of it is on my behalf. As a result of this, the eye contact she gave me was evasive, and darting. It didn't feel natural, and it was hard to inspire her to chase me.

I think that I might actually be misapplying Chase's advice where I over-do it on being smooth and generating sexual tension. Sometimes I feel like I'm moving too slowly, or that I'm using too many pregnant pauses and speaking too slowly. Our conversation felt a little tense and uncomfortable, which I suspect might've been detrimental to my game. It felt like there was a large barrier between her and I. I figure that dates are meant to lean more towards light conversations mixed with moments of sexual humour and sexual tension - but comfortable for the most part. What do you guys think? Would love some insight about this.

In the mix, I seed some ideas which will be useful for the pull.

(talking about dancing)
Me: Ah, so you do pole dancing and burlesque, that's cool! Did you ever get into other types of dance?
Her: No, not really!
Me: Well there's this really awesome dancer that I want to show you. His moves are absolutely mesmerising.
Her: Oh, we can look it up on your phone!
Me: I have no data... maybe I'll show you a bit later.

Fast forward more deep-diving and undirected conversation with little moments of sexual tension...

At one point I demand compliance and tell her to give me her hands as I inspect her patterned nails. She occasionally scans between my left and right eyes. At the peak of the conversation, we're talking about drunken states.

Me: So you're saying that a couple of years ago you would've been the person looking after all your drunk friends?
Her: [laughs] Yeah!
Me: So for example, if we knew each other a couple of years back, you would've helped out drunken Jeff?
Her: Yeah! [laughs]
Me: What would you do? Would you make sure that I had lots of water?
Her: Probably. I'd probably just give you a cup of water.
Me: Would you leave it right beside me, or would you bring the cup to my lips and feed me it?
Her: I think I'd feed you it. [laughs]
[2 second pause]
Me: You know what? You seem like a really interesting gal.
Her: How?
Me: I dunno. You're just not what I expected.
[1 second pause]
Me: [enthusiatically] What do you think about me!
Her: You're cool... you've got a very unique insight to life.
Me: How do you mean?
Her: I dunno... you're just unique.
[sexual tension builds, and we change the conversation threads and talk for 20 seconds]
Me: You know what! I really wanna show you this dancing video!
Her: Oh okay! [grabs her phone]
Me: Hey do you have speakers at your place?
Her: Yeah.
Me: Well your place is closer than mine. What say we just head back to your pad and kick back a bit?
Her: Okay.

No objections. We walk out and I focus on building comfort. We small talk on the way back. Eventually I'm in her apartment. Her room mate is at home, but he's in the bathroom at the moment, so luckily, I don't have to deal with him. "Cool place you have here. Give me a tour." I say, and she leads me to the balcony with a not so fancy view. She then leads me to her room and I sit down on the bed. I ask for compliance. "Hey, grab us a cup of water would you?"

I was trying to set up the situation that Franco talks about here: https://boards.girlschase.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1255
She ends up just bringing back one glass of water. She joins me on the bed. Eventually I put the glass down and I move closer. Tension is soaring... mostly the uncomfortable variety. We speak slowly. After 5 minutes of being in her place:

Me: I like your hair.
Her: Thanks! It's a bit longer than the last time you saw me. Can you notice?
Me: Where?
[I lean in closer and play with her hair a little]
Me: I like it. It's nice.
Her: I used to be brunette too.
Me: No way!
Her: Yeah I'll show you.
[she shows me a picture of her brunette self on her phone]
Me: Ah cool.
Her: Which do you prefer?
Me: [pause] Does it matter what I think?
Her: I'm just curious as to what people think!

I remain silent and then take the phone out of her hand and place it on the bed. I lean in closer and place my hand on hers. I then not so smoothly put my fingers on her chin and I pull her in. In hindsight, my face should've been closer to hers before going for a kiss. Also, prior to the kiss, there was little physical contact (even in the cafe). She pulls back.

Her: Sorry... did you mean for this to be a date?
[I give her a skeptical look]
Her: Sorry, I've got a boyfriend.
[1 second pause - the tension is fucking insane that I need to restrain myself from shaking]
Me: I don't care.
Her: Well not really a boyfriend, but I'm kind of seeing him.
[I give an even a more skeptical look and I make a "pffft" noise, and I pull her in by the chin again. She leans way back.
Her: I'm sorry.

I lean way back and let my eyes drift off. A long pause ensues and I cut all eye contact. Tension engulfs the both of us. I break it by talking about the paintings in her room. We then talk for 20 minutes about subjects like movies but it's clear at this point, we're just talking for the sake of talking - avoiding awkwardness. She still occasionally scans my eyes, but her body language in close off, and there is no opportunity to try kiss her again. Eventually:

Her: Well I gotta head off to the gym in a bit.
Me: Right.
Her: Sorry, I don't mean to kick you out.
Me: No, that's cool, I better peace out anyway. Big day ahead.

She walks me out to the lift where things are still very uncomfortable. I enter the lift.

Me: Well it was nice to meet you.
Her: Yeah, me too.
Me: Always nice to meet interesting new people.
[the door closes slowly]
Me: Bye.
Her: Bye.

No handshake, hug or anything. The goodbye seemed cold and we both knew we'd never see each other again.

I sent her a good wishes text for the hell of it:

Me: Cool to have met you
Her: You too!

Didn't expect a positive response.

Final thoughts:
I'm a little bit upset that my first 3 pulls ever have resulted in LMR or the girl being outright uncomfortable or just not that into me. A couple of points:
1. I need to screen for girls who are attracted to me in the first place. When I pick up girls on my job, I don't directly show interest and I think Jess may have genuinely just not have been into me. I think I need to screen better and polarise harder.
2. I'm thinking that my overall vibe is too smooth and aloof such that it creates a barrier between the girl and I. Seems like there's an enormous awkward gulf between us at times.
3. I should not put so much pressure on the lead up to the kiss. This might amplify the already uncomfortable tension.
4. Not sure if I should put my fingers on her chin to pull her in for a kiss. What do you guys think is the path of least resistance to a kiss?
5. The conversation seemed pretty boring. Should I have added a sexual edge to it to keep it interesting?

All in all, I'm happy that I'm making progress with pulling successfully. I just gotta polarise better and tweak a few things here and there.
Anyway, let me know what you guys think! As always, insight is always welcome and appreciated. Peace out homies!

- J

 

[Sophisticated Gent]

jdog,

You did some really good things here but you also had some mistakes. I am new to this stuff put I will give you my opinions. I see that you are struggling with nerves at times. I like to approach the hold thing as a game. The goal to win the game is to have sex with the girl of your dreams. From a guys perspective this makes it a challenge and something obtainable. It is like beating a level in a video game. You have to figure out all the rules and actions to win. It also takes putting the girl on a pedestal out of the equation. If you fail at a level you start over but more intelligently so as you progress you continue to get closer to the goal until you win. From this perspective you feel each girl is just one more step instead of feeling like it is a life or death situation. Ok that said here are some observations.

The compliance and moving to her place where excellent. It is hard to completely evaluate sexual tension without being there but I actually think there could have been a little more.

Me: You know what? You seem like a really interesting gal.
Her: How?
Me: I dunno. You're just not what I expected.
[1 second pause]

It is good here that you didn't go into listing your interesting shit. It would have been good to do an credibility building statement after she said how. Like, "Your a pole dancer (pause) but I am not sure if you are a sexy pole dancer." Put her on the defensive to prove herself to you.

You needed to have physical contact before the kiss. You didn't escalate in order. It is like asking permission without verbalizing it. Even though she was on your bed you still needed to have the physical contact before the kiss.

Her: Sorry... did you mean for this to be a date?
[I give her a skeptical look]
Her: Sorry, I've got a boyfriend.
[1 second pause - the tension is fucking insane that I need to restrain myself from shaking]
Me: I don't care.
Her: Well not really a boyfriend, but I'm kind of seeing him.
[I give an even a more skeptical look and I make a "pffft" noise, and I pull her in by the chin again. She leans way back.
Her: I'm sorry.

[/quote][/quote]

Shit test one and shit test two back to back. Both are bullshit. It was a date and she wouldn't be there if is wasn't. You shouldn't have reacted negatively. A teasing statement like "You brought me here to seduce me. lol" after the date comment. Throw it back on her.

Sorry to say but she took away all you dominance with the boyfriend shit test because of your reaction. Again another teasing statement like "Sorry, I am not into a two guys and one girl three ways. We'll leave him out." Slam the boyfriend shit is out.

Shit tests are the hardest for us new guys. They are on purpose to see how we react.

Keep on working at this and have fun doing it.

BDSC

 

[Seppuku]

Hey man,

It seems that you start touching her late in the process... unless I misread your report. It will help when you physically escalate. Because at that time she will already be comfortable with your touch.

I try to touch her very early. If I'm about to say something I gently touch her forearm before to catch her attention then speak. If she's a bit fatty I just touch her belly and joke her "what's this?" with a playful tone and half smile. If we walk and not too much people around, I just take her hand in mine. Within ten minutes max of first meet. Sometimes right away. If you take her hand and lead her you will feel if she's comfortable with your lead. By the time you're home, she's already familiar with your touch. Then you can go progressively. Arms around her. Touch her hair. Touch her legs. For the kiss, approach your mouth from hers, wait and observe reaction. If not ready, kiss the neck and try again later. Etc... It's a lot of fun. And they loved to be touched.

No worries, you're near and you will soon make it.

Cheers,
Seppuku

 

[Teparus]

This actually all sounded really good up until the botched kiss transition, and I think even that was salvageable with the right game and a bit of persistence.

This especially tells me that she was just feeling hesitant/tentative:

Her: Sorry, I've got a boyfriend.
[1 second pause - the tension is fucking insane that I need to restrain myself from shaking]
Me: I don't care.
Her: Well not really a boyfriend, but I'm kind of seeing him.

She's trying to back off of her boyfriend frame so she doesn't seem slutty if something happens. Because she's starting to think something might happen.

I think that a lot of this "bad tension" you're describing isn't actually bad. The reality is that sexual tension isn't generally comfortable. That doesn't mean it's bad.

This, though, wasn't very smooth:

[I give an even a more skeptical look and I make a "pffft" noise, and I pull her in by the chin again. She leans way back.]

It looks to me like she was starting to back off of her boyfriend frame, but she needed you to logically lead her away from it before engaging further. I actually think the skeptical look was a fuckin' sweet move, but the "pfft" and going for the kiss again so tenaciously seemed both dismissive of her feelings and a bit overeager.

A better response would have been to cut thread and then slowly escalate again. Backing off nonchalantly after amping up the tension to insane levels like you did with the "I don't care" statement screams non-neediness. That's like crack for her. You let the tension simmer but slowly release through some other innocuous topic. Something that I do that works really well when there's a lot of tension but they've rejected a kiss from me is to verbally state that I'm resisting the urge to kiss them while making strong eye contact, smirking, and then going right back to the conversational topic. I had one girl go from saying somewhat dismissively "I don't kiss on the first date" to "I actually don't...not...kiss on the first date" dripping with lust after dropping lots of statement of intent like that, at random, whenever it came up, for the better part of an hour.

If you're in a highly sexual mood but you can control it, it's actually very powerful. Women are highly empathetic creatures and have a hard time resisting emotions being pumped into them from the outside. They also have a tendency to have little micro emotional meltdowns and feel put upon if you try to shove too much emotion into them too fast, which is kind of what happened when you kept pushing in the moment.

Still, backing off when you did was a good move. You weren't boneheadedly eager. You were just slightly too eager to seal the deal. I don't think it would be a big tweak to train yourself to be just a bit more ready to back off and then reengage physicality a bit later.

Overall, I would say that she pretty into you judging by the exchange you described. Obviously I'm seeing it from your perspective and not getting the raw data of her body language etc but I think that she wanted something to happen on some level and you were just ever so slightly miscalibrated.

 

[jdoc]

Fellas, thanks for your input! I really appreciate insight from other seducers on the forums.

BDSC,

You needed to have physical contact before the kiss. You didn't escalate in order. It is like asking permission without verbalizing it. Even though she was on your bed you still needed to have the physical contact before the kiss.

In hindsight, I think you're correct. Throughout the coffee date there was minimal physical contact. All it was was just a few incidental taps to her arm, inspecting her hand at one point, and 10 seconds of sensual touch prior to the kiss. It was difficult to touch during the date so I should've reduced the proximity between us. The kiss would've seemed jarring and unnatural, yes.

Shit test one and shit test two back to back. Both are bullshit. It was a date and she wouldn't be there if is wasn't. You shouldn't have reacted negatively. A teasing statement like "You brought me here to seduce me. lol" after the date comment. Throw it back on her.

Still figuring out how to deal with last minute resistance, but keeping the vibe playful seems like a good idea!


Seppuku,

It seems that you start touching her late in the process... unless I misread your report. It will help when you physically escalate. Because at that time she will already be comfortable with your touch.

Spot on. It was really hard to touch her smoothly because she was sitting so far away. I should've asked her to move her seat closer to me... the extra compliance is useful also. These days touch is not a huge issue for me, but it was just difficult in this case considering the seating proximity. Something I'll definitely avoid next time round.

Haraklus,

She's trying to back off of her boyfriend frame so she doesn't seem slutty if something happens. Because she's starting to think something might happen.

I think you're right.

It looks to me like she was starting to back off of her boyfriend frame, but she needed you to logically lead her away from it before engaging further. I actually think the skeptical look was a fuckin' sweet move, but the "pfft" and going for the kiss again so tenaciously seemed both dismissive of her feelings and a bit overeager.

Do you think logically leading her away is the correct move? In cases of LMR, articles seem to suggesting upon trying to play upon girl's emotions rather than convincing her logically... I'm not really sure about this one. The last time I logically tried to move past LMR ended up dreadfully. But, you're right, the "pfft" at the end was the sloppy.

A better response would have been to cut thread and then slowly escalate again. Backing off nonchalantly after amping up the tension to insane levels like you did with the "I don't care" statement screams non-neediness. That's like crack for her.

Will give this a try next time, maybe I'll keep it a little more playful next time round as well. It's just a kiss right? No big deal.

You let the tension simmer but slowly release through some other innocuous topic. Something that I do that works really well when there's a lot of tension but they've rejected a kiss from me is to verbally state that I'm resisting the urge to kiss them while making strong eye contact, smirking, and then going right back to the conversational topic.

This actually sounds really fun - seeding in the thought so that it's less jarring the second time round.

If you're in a highly sexual mood but you can control it, it's actually very powerful. Women are highly empathetic creatures and have a hard time resisting emotions being pumped into them from the outside. They also have a tendency to have little micro emotional meltdowns and feel put upon if you try to shove too much emotion into them too fast, which is kind of what happened when you kept pushing in the moment.

This is fantastic insight. A+.

Still, backing off when you did was a good move. You weren't boneheadedly eager. You were just slightly too eager to seal the deal. I don't think it would be a big tweak to train yourself to be just a bit more ready to back off and then reengage physicality a bit later.

Overall, I would say that she pretty into you judging by the exchange you described. Obviously I'm seeing it from your perspective and not getting the raw data of her body language etc but I think that she wanted something to happen on some level and you were just ever so slightly miscalibrated.

Glad to hear it! Hopefully, things will be easier from here on out. This particular pull was an incredible learning experience.

 

[Teparus]

articles seem to suggesting upon trying to play upon girl's emotions rather than convincing her logically

Yes. But logically staying on topic solidifies the current emotion (in this case, resistance/hesitation). You say,

Cool. Anyway, what do you think of my curtains?

So that she's no longer thinking about the boyfriend or how awkward she feels or whatever. Take the logic somewhere else so the emotions don't become concrete. Breaking the tension so you can rebuild it later. That's my $.02 anyway. I actually feel like this is generally a strong suit of mine and can say that with invested girls it has helped me overcome a lot of resistance.

That said, kickass pull, dude, keep it up.

 

[Sophisticated Gent]

I think the hardest thing for guys to overcome is the negativity that was pounded into our heads as we were growing up about how girls don't like you. Every time we get even the slightest negative comment we take it as rejection. Instead if the girl has shown interest in you it is her issue and not yours. If you pull yourself out of the I am getting rejected thought process and put your mind on how am I going to help her get past her issue, you can work pass the negative.

Following this line of thought us guys like to take straight lines to a solution. Step 1, Step 2, Step 3 and so one. This is preached in here. Where this changes is in getting around the LMRs. You have to think laterally and backwards. Change directions. Think more in terms of playing chess in three dimensions. There are multiple solutions to the problem. In this example the straight line solution didn't work. Get her in your room, then on the bed, then kiss, make out and fuck. Her emotions said no to the bed, kiss, fuck directions. Maybe is should have been, room, kiss, lift her up, bed fuck like Anatman suggestion. Or it could have been room, bed, movie, touching, make out, fuck. Or is could have been .... The point is to try different approach when as one fails. Then another approach and so one. It is important to make this feel to her like it is a natural process. If she feels like all you care about is the fuck you will probably get rejected.


BDSC

 

[jdoc]

Actually bumped into Jess coincidentally on the street today! Aaaand hot damn... the vibe was pretty damn awkward. We were talking whilst walking. She was walking along pretty fast, and I was walking slowly.

[Whole conversation had whilst walking, with an uneasy atmosphere. Long pauses were had.]
Me: Jess!
Her: Oh hi!
Me: What are you up to today?
Her: Oh, I'm on my work break, about to grab some dinner.
[5 second pause]
Her: Have you heard of China Bar?
Me: Yeah - good rice and noodles.
Her: Well I gotta cross the street now.
Me: Fancy bumping into you again. See ya.

Haha, funny shit.

Haraklus:

Yes. But logically staying on topic solidifies the current emotion (in this case, resistance/hesitation).

Interesting thought at that. I guess I could've have taken advantage of the fact she said that it wasn't really a boyfriend, and that she was kind of seeing him.

So that she's no longer thinking about the boyfriend or how awkward she feels or whatever. Take the logic somewhere else so the emotions don't become concrete. Breaking the tension so you can rebuild it later.

Good stuff! Breaking and rebuilding tension after a rejection is not a strong suit of mine... something to work on in the future.

That said, kickass pull, dude, keep it up.

Thanks, bro

BDSC:

I think the hardest thing for guys to overcome is the negativity that was pounded into our heads as we were growing up about how girls don't like you. Every time we get even the slightest negative comment we take it as rejection. Instead if the girl has shown interest in you it is her issue and not yours. If you pull yourself out of the I am getting rejected thought process and put your mind on how am I going to help her get past her issue, you can work pass the negative.

This has pretty accurately represents my dating experience and has been hugely limiting for me as well. You're right, I guess as dudes we gotta lead. Sometimes that means we gotta guide them past bullshit objections, but I guess that's all part of it.

It is important to make this feel to her like it is a natural process. If she feels like all you care about is the fuck you will probably get rejected.

This is a pretty big take-home message. I guess girls are extremely sensitive to even slight-off vibes, which I think amounts to a big factor in LMR. I agree - the more seamless and natural, the better.

 

[jdoc]

So I just found out that Jess actually passed away today at the young age of 21. Really made me realise the preciousness of life and how you may never get a second chance.

- J