Should I Worry About This Guy?

[Train]

Hi all,

Been living with family for these past few months. One of them is the BF to a relative. And I can't help but feel gaslighted. And like something is off with him. I was looking for y'alls thoughts and/or experience. Is this guy dangerous and is he gaslighting me?

So a description of this guy. Charming, charismatic. Tall, dark, handsome. Preaches good will, karma, family values. But has some dark vibes at times. Like glimpses here and there that pop out like dark topics or hostile "jokes" (hitting people, having killed people, some "demons"). He's been nice to me with advice, paying for things here and there.

Description of the relationship. The girl is like under a spell. He holds the power because she's investing in him constantly by paying stuff for him. He's pulling his own weight now financially. But she has sunk a lot of money into him. He's affectionate with her. Though stern. And defends her as well.

Seems like she is gaining more leverage in the relationship though. But he would sometimes pull the "I will leave then" card if he didn't get his way. Says he loves her and stuff though.

She also had mysterious bruises on her arm and thigh a while back. They do play fight a lot and he's strong but yeah... Not to mention a black eye she had after an argument they had when they were away. She says she did it herself for attention. But I dunno.

Context done. Now to the scenarios.

First one is when I got angry he drank my shakes without asking. Then some time later (days/weeks) when I went to get a shake, I find an empty shake in the box.

I rack my brain wondering if I did this. How did this happen? I suspected it was him out of payback. So I confront and the girl says she doesn't remember. Then she asks him and says it was a "joke" to see if I noticed. I didn't like said joke. Their frame was I am sensitive and it was just a joke. But I moved on.

Next scenario is when they were cleaning. They were told to clean the house. I didn't. But the guy kept bringing it up in a butthurt way a couple of times.

Well, later I shower and toss an empty box on the floor of our bathroom. I later find the box on my bed, crushed, where I usually sit to dress after the guy showered in the same bathroom.

Kept wondering "Did I leave it there? Was it me?" I am 99% sure I did not pick it up OR crush it like that. I think it was payback for not cleaning.

Upon confronting, they said it didn't happen and that maybe it was me that did it. And they said I am being dramatic. But I am almost 100% sure I did NOT put that thing on my bed. I have checked my memory like over a dozen times. I did NOT put that shit there. I feel I am going crazy.

Have you guys had experience with this kind of behavior? Am I crazy here? Should I watch out hard for this guy?

 

[DarkKnight]

She also had mysterious bruises on her arm and thigh a while back. They do play fight a lot and he's strong but yeah... Not to mention a black eye she had after an argument they had when they were away -> Seems like a big signal to me that there is something off dude.

Train you are not going crazy.. your gut feeling is probably going haywire.. He is definitely gaslighting you.. I know you as a well balanced guy.. if you find it necessary to write a post about this something is definitely up. Next time give him no more room to evade and come with consequences.

Trust me when I say that he has probably tested you over and over again without you even noticing and somewhere he has thought of you as gullible. Don't take it personally it is just the mental framework of such people and not a true reflection of you. This guy is probably trash.

Next time: Wait for an opportunity where he will make a mistake, which he will, and double down on him, be relentless. Ignore the apologetic behavior of the girl who excuses him, she is concerned with her own interests not with yours. Double down on him and show him consequences for his actions if you find it worth it to do so. But take heed.. this is a strategy that he pas probably used over and over again.. people like this can be very persistent in their actions. You have to shock them out of it and show that you mean business.

How I know this? People who should pay me have tried the same tactics over and over again until I showed them I mean business.. And as if by wonder these "irrational, emotional" people suddenly become the most well behaved rational people when they know their game is over.


I also think you are the kind of guy who wants to 'proof" that he is justified.. you are trying to calibrate where you are still reasonable or unreasonable. That other guy doesnt work that way.. he takes what is coming to him. Short sighted trash mentality

 

[Train]

Thank you for the insights and perspective, DK. Glad to know I'm not going crazy and you see what I see.

I will use that strategy you mention to confront hard and heavy when I come across something similar again in the future.

I actually just confronted them earlier and they seemed pretty believable in that he didn't gaslight me. Seemed pretty authentic, and they were genuinely surprised that I was so "paranoid". He didn't seem angry, just kinda confused and kinda entertained at the thought that it sounded like a horror movie. I accepted that they have their "reality" but also stood by mine. Agreed to disagree.

It seems smooth for now. Usually he's direct but I will keep an eye out.

I think what will help me is keeping better record and track of things too.

This is such a nasty tactic, if it is gaslighting. It unhinged me so easily. Maybe a sign that I need better mental fortitude. But I will practice stronger frames so I can shock people out of it when they see I won't budge.

 

[DarkKnight]

You dont need to track and record on a spreadsheet or anything like that.. you just need to stand your ground. Also has nothing to do with better mental fortitude but with previous experience with such people.. You are a black and white thinker while these people operate on the grey, purposely blur everything.. When you have more experience with this you see more clearly and notice that people are bullshitting you. Which is clearly the case here. You don't discuss these things with them.. this gives them space to further bullshit you and to gauge you. You're message should be -> I know you are fucking around.. you are not going to get away with this.

 

[Train]

Ah I see, thanks for clarifying that, it makes sense. I think I was able to stand my ground, albeit my conviction wavered a bit. I have not accepted the frame of "You must have forgotten, silly!" Need to practice better standing of my ground.

 

[DarkKnight]

Ah I see, thanks for clarifying that, it makes sense. I think I was able to stand my ground, albeit my conviction wavered a bit. I have not accepted the frame of "You must have forgotten, silly!" Need to practice better standing of my ground.

They probably notice this.. You just have to encounter more of this kind of people unfortunately... You are still quite young.. You need reference experience. You'll be fine

 

[trashKENNUT]

Have you guys had experience with this kind of behavior? Am I crazy here? Should I watch out hard for this guy?

Yes. He is gaslighting.
How is your feeling when you are near him, them?
Feeling Something uneasy and negative?
That's the secret to know if someone is toxic.

At the core, You must be willing to fight, That's the weakness he is smelling from you.

Body language:
Never ever face him direct. Always side.

On the girl:
Don't reason with the girl. She is under a spell. Don't Attack her either. Because she is gone.

What to do:
1)Tell him to knock it off. And don't drink your shakes. Just keep it fairly neutral voice.
2)When you go, make sure you go, all out. Make him bloody, and quick.

The idea to think about this people is that they are dead. And when you fight dead people,

Here's great advice on fighting dead people.

z@c+

 

[Train]

Thanks for the inputs, Zac!

I feel usually at ease near him. And when he's angry, it's usually noticeable. It's rare I feel weird around him. Just sometimes I get worried or paranoid with him. It's subtle triggers.

Sounds like the strategy is to put my foot down in a stern yet calm/unreactive way. Hit hard but indifferent.

Thanks for chiming in with your thoughts! Good to know I am not going insane haha.

 

[DarkKnight]

Anger is useful as well in stead of indifferent... If it convinces the otherside that you are going to strike in some form... Anger is only bad when it comes across as a bluff or manipulatable by the other side... Indifference sometimes makes dumb people believe you are going to stay passive. Controlled anger is the way to go.. in a congruent way. Your getting worried or paranoid is exactly what Zac mentions with toxic feelings. You are not exposed that much to him but when you get exposed more this spider sense will become more intense.

 

[trashKENNUT]

He's pulling his own weight now financially. But she has sunk a lot of money into him.

My advice still stand BUT

People who are hard headed, starting to get financially better, often has the occasional ball busting, see what I can get away with. And if they are socially uncalibrated, they are terrible until they are called out on. Because they are not aware of it.

There is 3 variable if the person is NOT oozing toxic

- People who likes ball busting
- Socially uncalibrated
- Assessing Social Hierarchy between people in the same location

I'm pretty sure that if he is not toxic, this guy is all 3, with temperamental problem because he beats women, assumedly, which is still bad.

z@c+

my advice is solid. I am a GAWD. lolx

 

[Chase]

@Train,

Can't tell from reading this if the girl is the type to hurt herself "for attention" or not. I've seen girls start hitting themselves when they got mad enough. Girls who are normally very sane / don't have any crazy personality disorders, and you would not expect to do that. It's a little unsettling to witness.

About the "abusive male" thing in general I will just say that while it happens, I'm skeptical of the "she has bruises so that must mean he's beating her" thing simply because it's harped on so much in the media it leads to people seeing it there when it isn't much of the time. Mystery arm/leg bruises are pretty normal in most people... they happen to me, they've happened to every girlfriend I've ever had (and I don't hit!), they happen to just about everyone I know ("Hey, where'd you get that bruise?" --> "Huh... Oh. I have no idea!").

I've had charismatic friends who made off-color jokes. Some of them that would rub you the wrong way. Not bad dudes. But not everybody appreciates dark humor. Dark (or "mean") humor is one of the six dimensions of humor. A lot of people get a kick out of it.

The crushed-box-on-the-bed sounds like he's just being petty about you leaving garbage on the floor when you knew he was cleaning. If you're not a neat freak or it's not your job to clean you might not see the big deal about leaving trash wherever and then whoever picks it up, whatever. But if either a.) you're a neat person or b.) it's your job to make the place neat, you will tend to resent people dumping stuff wherever (rather than, say, placing their garbage in the bin).

It's possible this guy may be some nefarious dude who is secretly a killer and is turning your (cousin? sister?) into his personal Manson girl.

It's probably a lot more likely he's a charmer with a petty streak (and a possible neat-freak/perfectionist streak) who makes risqué jokes and has rubbed you the wrong way, as people are wont to do when they stay in close proximity too long.

Chase

 

[Train]

Hi @Chase! Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts on this one.

This particular relative (sister) sometimes fits the "crazy gf" trope, but I think her behavior just stems from insecurity. I've known her forever, so I could totally see her hitting herself for attention.

That's a good point about the bruises. There was one where it did not seem like it came from a punch / slap. It would have to have been like a two-finger jab or something. I think the mainstream has embedded the "if bruises then abuse" logic for sure.

Totally, I love dark humor myself. I guess part of this is the lens I am seeing this guy through that could make me interpret things as worse than they are. I do talk with another relative that can't stand this guy and thinks he's dangerous. But they may be projecting things onto him. He does mention some dark topics in a non-joking way that are concerning but not in a serial-killer / Manson-ish way.

I can see where there would be resentment definitely if someone is cleaning and the other is dumping. Usually I am decent with cleaning. And this person did voice their resentment. My thing is I rather handle issues directly instead of series of passive aggressive, subtle things that drive me insane.

After some thought with your post, I think he is skewing to petty charmer instead of the former you mention. That seems more consistent with the behavior I've seen these past few months.

I had a bad reaction to the potential gaslighting and the fallout was severe enough that if it did happen, he won't do it again. He denies it. But I put an ultimatum of "I'll leave if it happens again. Please be direct next time". If I leave, they'd be forced to leave as well, which will cost a lot of money. And they saw how sensitive I was to this and how I still don't believe their reality. So hopefully it discourages similar behavior.

On a side note, my reaction was pretty bad. Flew into a blind rage. The couple was not around of course. Not sure what I can do to curb the anger, which felt like not a normal reaction. Almost like my body and mind were doing their own thing. Need to meditate on the daily again...

 

[trashKENNUT]

- Petty behavior from him
- Pet peeves from You
- Crazy relative sister
- Clean Pet peeve

Definitely a middle child/narcissistic parents/toxic family

Does he have a 'this must be this way'?
Example: David Beckham cannot have 10 rows of coke in the refrigerator with one missing from one row.

this is like what Chase noted 'neat freak'.
i add to Chase notes that there's 2 types of 'neat'

- 'this must be this way'/process must be this/must be 10 cans straight line up Infront of refrigerator
- my bedroom must be clean type

I have a pet peeve where I hate people for people drying clothes near my clothes when there is a ton of fucking space. (You can feel the painbody right there, lolx)

z@c+

 

[Train]

This was more him being forced to clean because the head of the house instructed him to do so. So not necessarily a neat freak.

So I think the resentment is more due to "unfair" living conditions.

But I can relate to pet peeves. I like my own things to be a certain way without people disturbing them. Not necessarily objects but also habits. I hate having my routine interrupted lol.

 

[Chase]

On a side note, my reaction was pretty bad. Flew into a blind rage. The couple was not around of course. Not sure what I can do to curb the anger, which felt like not a normal reaction. Almost like my body and mind were doing their own thing. Need to meditate on the daily again...

It sounds like clashing personalities trapped in a house together.

I'd suggest you get this guy to sit down with you and the two of you clear the air. Or maybe you've already done that. Sounds like you talked about being direct, at least.

You'll get outbursts like that when there's some annoyance hanging over you that grows and grows. Then something triggers it and BOOM!

Third best way to deal with that is to get more aware of it. Then get better at airing grievances when it's early, before they turn explosive.

Second best way to deal with it is to remove yourself from the situation. In this case, sounds like that'd be moving out. No more annoying petty guy, no more annoying petty guy problems.

Best way to deal with it is to figure out what emotion this is affecting and let it go. Which you can do with meditation. "Why does this affect me so much? What is the lesson for me here?" If you can figure it out, and it becomes clear, and you can let it go, you can greatly lessen its ability to affect you.

Chase

 

[Train]

Hi Chase, thank you for the suggestions on this. I did talk it out with him to clear the air. He's usually pretty direct. The convo ended amicably. We sorta agreed to disagree about what happened, though.

There might be a 5% chance I put the box there instead but I honestly racked my mind many times and do not recall.

I hadn't considered that there would be a build-up to the rage or outburst. Now that I think about it, there is some built-up suspicion or tension regarding this guy. I do also have another cynical relative who doesn't like him and complains to me about it. Some of that ill will probably sticks to me and messes with the filter I see things through.

Thank you for tips on how to deal with it. I have the second best option as the "nuclear option". The third I plan to run concurrently with the first best option. Meditation has done wonders for self-awareness but I definitely could consciously dig into why this bothers me.

I think it was a mix of disrespect but also fear of "What comes next?" I like my "dangers" where I can see them, lol.

I do have some mild neurosis and a tendency to fixate/obsess, so it can lead to significantly incorrect perceptions of reality. Basically, I can gas myself into an explosion. I find distance from significantly emotional events also gives me clarity where I can see "Oh yeah, I was actually a douchebag there and deserved it."