Should you stop being yourself to get better at game?

[Jeff]

Hey guys,

Hope you're doing well.

Some of you may have read my previous posts on getting stuck at intermediate purgatory - the big plateau that separates the boys from men.

I'm currently making adjustments in my game after already having done one session with Alek (and doing another one soon).

Today's question is a little more "general" or "meta".

How far should you change yourself to get good at game?

Let me explain.

I don't plan on stopping anytime soon...at least not until I get the consistency and quality I've always wanted, and a sense that I've finally more or less handled this area of my life.

So I'm looking at putting another 5-10 years into pick up, game and the social arts.

In the process, I've understood that "being yourself" is garbage and a better way to look at it is "what else can you be?"

A bit about me:

• I'm a writer (and want to get better)
• I play guitar and write for a band (80s hard rock/metal)
• I have long hair
• I'm an introvert and I prefer chilled out settings over clubs any day of the week

HOWEVER, since I decided to commit long term to game, I've found myself in a bunch of situations and environments I never thought I'd be in -

Techno clubs, Night game in general, talking to all kinds of chicks, familiarizing myself with the social frames of as many different types of groups as possible, etc.

In the process, I've begun to feel like an outsider EVERYWHERE I go.

I'm a little afraid to be my old guitar playing, metal-head self because I don't think that's what the girls I want might find "cool"

At the same time, I don't enjoy the things that these social groups seem to be into.

I'm only getting into these situations to improve my game and social calibration.

I'm generally not a fan of "inner-game" stuff and prefer actionable advice but every once in a while, I find myself wondering

"What the fuck am I doing?"
"Why am I putting in all this working instead of being myself?"
"How do I choose between doing what I like vs doing the things that the girls I want deem to be cool?"

Side Note: I've been on low momentum with a few lays and successes here and there since 2022. But my progress has been very slow, with the occasional AHA moment (which I suppose is how things work when you're clawing your way to advanced)

So this might be low momentum thinking as Alek says.

I hope I was clear with my question (it's been difficult to frame my question properly).

If you can relate or have gone through this feeling of being an outcast, do let me know how you went about it.

@Chase @Teevster

Cheers.

 

[Chase]

@Jeff,

When I first started running game in nightclubs, I was a mad-at-the-world rapper who wore a bunch of gold rings and a big jangly gold diamond bracelet and a chunky gold Rolex (all fake, btw!), a gold necklace, etc. The venues I was going to were not my element (except for that one ghetto club they closed down for a while after some guy got stabbed in the heart with an icepick) and it definitely wasn’t me.

What happened was that over time my nightlife attendance (along with a bunch of other things in life) helped mold me into a “new” me. I feel a lot more comfortable hanging out in bars, lounges, nightclubs, etc., now than I do wearing a bunch of bling.

But anyway… who says you necessarily have to give that stuff up?

There was a PUA back in the 2000-naughts named BradP. I trained with him in New York one night on night game and the biggest piece of advice he had for me at the end of the night was that I needed an identity I could use with girls that girls could really get into. He was suggesting I bring back my rap persona, embrace it, and really just own that in clubs… I was already a year-and-a-half divorced from that, working in the corporate world then, and I didn’t want to go back to it, but I ended up turning myself into an artist as “The Writer” in the end anyway. And I discovered a lot of girls really dig guys who are writers. Who woulda thunk? Chicks dig creatives, especially when they are ovulating

Have you tried working your writer / rocker persona into how you present yourself to girls? I would field test the crud out of that. Women go nuts for creative guys… it is like the #1 thing.

GIRL: What do you do?​

JEFF: Ah, you know, I’m in a rock band.​

GIRL: FOR REAL???!​

JEFF: Yeah, it’s not that big, we play shows at venue X and venue Y and venue Z.​

GIRL: OMG THAT IS SO COOL!!!!​

These are the kinds of conversations you need to be having.

Chase

 

[ulrich]

In the process, I've understood that "being yourself" is garbage and a better way to look at it is "what else can you be?"

In the process, I've begun to feel like an outsider EVERYWHERE I go.

"Why am I putting in all this working instead of being myself?"

There is nothing wrong with being yourself.
Your true self.

The problem is that most people take the “be yourself” advice and conveniently bastardize it into a sort of “be lazy and inconsiderate”.

So they go through life doing only what they want to do, talking about what they want to talk and then wonder why the fuck they struggle to connect with people and attract the other sex.

So what kind of “be yourself” are we talking about here?

If you have interests that are uncommon like pickup, 80’s rock and stuff like that… just be mindful who and when you share them with.
Maybe you me guy friends can relate but it will be a mood breaker with girls. Don’t mention it with girls and that’s all.

I like anime a lot… yet, I hardly ever talk about that because:
a) very few people in my circles care about it
b) it makes me look like a nerd
c) it is something I like… not something that defines me

So I just enjoy those shows when I am home alone and that’s all.
I don’t need to pester people about it nor defend my interests.

….

On another point… are your interests really your true you??

If you were to describe yourself, would being a 80s meathead be an integral part of who you are?

You are much more than the things you like… and I think you do a disservice to yourself by conflating the things you enjoy with what defines you as a person.

For example, I like bodybuilding, pickup, anime, history, comedy, rock, electronic music, business theory, parfumerie, cooking, traveling, self-optimization, psychology, football, cooking, sales… and I’ve worked as engineer, salesman, marketer, actor, coach…

And if you were to ask me to describe who I am… I would probably use none of the above.

I think people tend to default to simple systems/states that allow them to spend less mental resources regardless of wether it helps them achieve their goals.
It’s conservation of energy.

Simplifying your definition of who you are to what you do or like is one of those things is one of those kinds of simplifications.
Does it really serve you?

 

[Jeff]

@Jeff,

When I first started running game in nightclubs, I was a mad-at-the-world rapper who wore a bunch of gold rings and a big jangly gold diamond bracelet and a chunky gold Rolex (all fake, btw!), a gold necklace, etc. The venues I was going to were not my element (except for that one ghetto club they closed down for a while after some guy got stabbed in the heart with an icepick) and it definitely wasn’t me.

What happened was that over time my nightlife attendance (along with a bunch of other things in life) helped mold me into a “new” me. I feel a lot more comfortable hanging out in bars, lounges, nightclubs, etc., now than I do wearing a bunch of bling.

But anyway… who says you necessarily have to give that stuff up?

There was a PUA back in the 2000-naughts named BradP. I trained with him in New York one night on night game and the biggest piece of advice he had for me at the end of the night was that I needed an identity I could use with girls that girls could really get into. He was suggesting I bring back my rap persona, embrace it, and really just own that in clubs… I was already a year-and-a-half divorced from that, working in the corporate world then, and I didn’t want to go back to it, but I ended up turning myself into an artist as “The Writer” in the end anyway. And I discovered a lot of girls really dig guys who are writers. Who woulda thunk? Chicks dig creatives, especially when they are ovulating

Have you tried working your writer / rocker persona into how you present yourself to girls? I would field test the crud out of that. Women go nuts for creative guys… it is like the #1 thing.

GIRL: What do you do?​

JEFF: Ah, you know, I’m in a rock band.​

GIRL: FOR REAL???!​

JEFF: Yeah, it’s not that big, we play shows at venue X and venue Y and venue Z.​

GIRL: OMG THAT IS SO COOL!!!!​

These are the kinds of conversations you need to be having.

Chase

Hey @Chase

Great to hear from you

And yes, I generally work the rocker/writer persona into my conversations resembling the example you've laid out.

HOWEVER, after having repeatedly struck out with the girls I was after (as evidenced in my previous posts which you've addressed by the way), I began to think what I had to offer simply wasn't "cool enough"

So, when I tell them what I do, there's no real sense of pride. They can probably smell the lack of conviction/pride/confidence.

These days, it doesn't come out as a humble brag as it appears to come across in your example.

It's more like I'm saying it because I have to (while fully expecting them to think it's lame).

I shall start owning this persona the next time I talk to a girl (especially an attractive one).

Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[ZenRising]

when I tell them what I do, there's no real sense of pride. They can probably smell the lack of conviction/pride/confidence.

These days, it doesn't come out as a humble brag as it appears to come across in your example.

It's more like I'm saying it because I have to (while fully expecting them to think it's lame).

I shall start owning this persona the next time I talk to a girl (especially an attractive one).

Sounds like you've caught the essence of the issue here... it's not what you do that's the issue, it's how you're 'holding' what you do... and with it, how you're carrying who you are... I reckon if someone is a garbage collector, and said it with enough pride and animation, it would probably impress people, because all they would feel is the confidence...

I have a job that a lot of women think is cool or impressive, but I know in the past I've been far too lacking in pride and confidence about it for it to carry real weight when I've been getting to know them... I've also had to embrace the fact that if anyone - including any woman I might be interested in - doesn't like what I do or who I am, well then I have to reject their views and (the hard part) I have to mean it... my relationship with myself is far more important than the acceptance/embrace/approval of anyone else...

 

[rockstar]

Wow, I could write a lot about this.

I used to have a similar image (and still retain some parts of it). But when I started to really get deeper into game and thinking about my image, I was spending time around people with very different images, and I started changing.

Really the first question you need to ask is "What do I want?" "What type of girls do I want?". Look at the types of girls that date guys like you. Are you happy with that? You probably get alt-y, punk-y. goth-y type girls, maybe a few indie-ish or vintage-y girls too right? The occasional normie-looking girl who goes to pop punk concerts every month or who's celebrity crush is 1989 Axl Rose. (I also got a lot of hippie girls back then, but I'm not sure that'd fit your experience or not).

The fact is, you don't have a popular archetype. 99% of girls are not fantasizing about dating someone like you. That doesn't mean you can't have success. You definitely can get good at game and slay metalhead and rocker girls (this scene is very small in most places in 2024 as I'm sure you know). Parts of this image have bad associations for a lot of people. Metal music is often associated with nerds/weird guys. Girls associate classic rock with their dads and old uncool guys. It's not this dreary, but you have to be aware of what you're projecting. Playing in a band can still be a really cool thing, but you still need to have the right vibe and introverted metal nerd is not it.

Do you want to sleep with hot girls? (Maybe you don't care.) If you do, do hot girls in your city sleep with guys like you?

This doesn't mean you really have to change who you are in some fundamental way (though you may have to change your physical style/grooming/appearance). You can still have these secret unique hobbies that she has to dig to figure out.

Personally, gradually hanging around "cooler" people (I mean in terms of status, not in terms of some intrinsic value of a person or quality of their personality), my aesthetic tastes in a lot of things changed, especially in music. I still keep a lot of rock influences in my personal style though.

Weirdly, I feel like this aesthetic is really pervasive in pickup communities? I see a disproportionate number of cold approach guys online with this vibe

 

[Bismarck]

This is a great thread with an interesting topic.

I would recommend you watch “Everybody wants some” (2016) Jeff, and notice how the guys adapt to different tribes to smash diverse specimens of fresh twat.

The short answer is no, you shouldn’t repress your true self. The long answer includes opening your mind and developing yourself by frequently hanging out outside your comfort zone.