Sleeping With & Dating Prostitutes

[Troy]

Hey Everyone,

I went out Friday night to pick up at a bar and nightclub and I had a totally different experience. I was flocked and harassed by prostitutes and damn did it feel good. Luckily I overcame the temptation to buy pussy. I had the money to buy and my dick was ready to slap some pussy but I held back. I feel like a big man for doing that.

Question now, I have thought about the experience and wondered if it would be a good idea to hire a prostitute/escort. I don't believe in paying for sex but maybe I could give it a chance. I have a needy vibe around girls and I'm thinking that sleeping with a couple girls will reduce that. It's not a fix for my issues but more like a band aid to make me feel more confident while I really work on improving. Girls can't solve my issues, neither can money. Only a positive mindset can solve everything.

Do you think I should hire a prostitute?

Should I even kiss them? ( the thought of kissing a girl that has swallowed cum and ate a lot of cocks is meh for me. Can kissing a prostitute cause any disease?

I'm the type of guy that can't have sex without french kissing lol. What do y'all think?

Finally has anyone on here dated or slept with a escort ( sounds nicer )?
I wouldn't like to just have sex then cut (leave). I'd want to at least have lunch/dinner with her and treat her like a person worthy of respect. I value women and therefore hate that sort of lifestyle. What should I do?

Thanks

Troy

 

[Drck]

Just be careful with the STDs. Most spread through sexual contact, specifically vaginal/anal/oral sex with no protection (condom) through bodily fluids - such as semen, blood, vaginal secretion but also saliva. You can get herpes and warts just by skin contact, even without sex or kissing.

There is about 65 millions of Americans who have STD. Each year there is about 20 million new cases diagnosed, about 10 mil are young adults of age less than 25.

The more sexual partners you have the higher chances to get STD is there, that is just straight forward logic.

Prostitutes have higher probability of having STD as they have sex on more regular basis with different men, but at the same token 'good' prostitute is very careful and always uses condom.


From the point of view of seduction, if you go out and sleep say with 20, 50, 100 or 200 different young girls as a seducer, you do have much higher chances to contract STD than when you hire an escort here and there as a regular guy, simply because those seduced girls also sleep around and they may not be so careful as escort.

STDs is quite common among young girls (relatively speaking) who are younger than 25 years old, IMO it is because these girls are simply inexperienced and careless. Ages between 15 and 24 are particularly risky, for example chlamydia cases are almost double in those age groups when compared to age 25-29. Example from CDC:

Chlamydia cases, number of females per age groups (rounded numbers):
Age 15-19 >>>> 346,000
Age 20-24 >>>> 400,000
Age 25-29 >>>> 146,000
Age 30-34 >>>> 38,000

As you can see, females in age group 30-34 have roughly 10x less chlamydia occurrences than females in age groups 15-19 and 20-24. IMO it is safe to assume that similar numbers are with other types of STDs.

That is something to think about, younger females are simply more reckless and the probability of getting STD is much higher with younger females than with females say 30-40 years old. Said differently, older and experienced females are much more careful, IMO the same with escort...

The logic is obiously somehow twisted, but you could be actually quite safer with an escort than with random cute/sweet/sexy girl that you meet on the street...

 

[PrettyDecent]

Hey Troy,

Yeah, it's a tempting one. I remember before losing my virginity, I'd been contemplating the same question.

Reason I ended up not paying for sex has to do with a philosophy of mine, which is this: if you can't replicate the results reliably, it ain't worth it.

So -

Losing virginity through cold-approach: I now have the tools to have sex again with a new girl for free whenever I want to, if I put in enough hard work.

Losing virginity through prostitute: To have sex again, I must now either pay for it again (which I don't the money for) or sharpen my skills to cold-approach (which I could have done to lose my virginity in the first place).

There was another thought that I struggled with as well: if I can just lose my virginity, will I be be more relaxed/confident around women?

The answer feels like "yes", but I think it's just your mind playing tricks on you. You would feel a step-up in your vibe, but it goes away after a few days - and then you're back to square one again. Only this time your brain has a new excuse why you can't be relaxed/confident around women: I can't sleep with a girl unless she's a prostitute.

Just some time and elbow grease, I already see you grinding on the self-improvement.

Hope that helps, bud!

~Nick

 

[Troy]

Just be careful with the STDs. Most spread through sexual contact, specifically vaginal/anal/oral sex with no protection (condom) through bodily fluids - such as semen, blood, vaginal secretion but also saliva. You can get herpes and warts just by skin contact, even without sex or kissing.

I definitely will be careful with the STDs. It makes no sense to have one roll in the hay and end up sick or worse off in the end. The part you said about getting STDs easily without even kissing sounds scary. What if a random girl came up and kissed me in a club? They do that a lot and quickly escalate on the man. They put their hand on his crotch, make him shoot a plantain, french kiss him, then take him back to her room.

NO!

There is nothing that could possibly be worse for your Frame than to pay a woman for sex. Think about this...

That totally came as a surprise. I could hear someone shout "no" at me when I read that.

When a man and a woman have sex, and the man gives the woman money, he is saying that he is literally so low in value that he has to make up for it by compensating her with money he worked hard for. He is valuing himself BELOW ZERO.

That is the main reason I did not pay even though I could. No matter who the woman is: regular girl or prostitute; I don't ever want a woman to think I'm so low value. I can understand a man at age 60 who has lost his wife for example to go buy pussy. I kept telling myself that for my age I should be with some other chick I didn't even have to pay for. Mhm funnily it seems like everytime I hear of a club somewhere and I go it just happens to be a cover up for what really goes on there. It's not the first I've been cat called by prostitutes. Plus the club scene is just one big mess. Every girl in there wants something from you before you get anything.

I would encourage you to do everything you can to pick up a real woman and not pay for a prostitute

What can I do? It's no fun masturbating nor is it fun going out alone to chat up chicks all the time. Any other solutions that could help me quickly pick up?

There was another thought that I struggled with as well: if I can just lose my virginity, will I be be more relaxed/confident around women?

Exactly what I thought and I'd been planning to visit this Friday. For only $15 I could spend 3 hours fucking a girl while taking the periodic rest to talk to her like a real person. I thought that if i'd get sex from a girl, any girl I'd be confident with all women. My first time made me feel horrible because there was no talk, just action. I didn't even know the girl's name. Sigh moving on from that experience still.

Hope that helps, bud!

Thanks bro for the encouragement.


Extra Thoughts
On a serious note, I believe very much that women should be respected and should not have to live a life selling her body. Recently I've been curious as to what it would feel like to date a prostitute. It feels like a fantasy; though I wouldn't date these girls long term. It would be more like a fun experience. What do ya'll think if I was to visit there and give it a shot to seduce these girls on the job without paying? I know I know sounds ridiculous but I had to ask. It would be like walking into a store and telling the cute cashier to give me the drinks on the shelf for free while everyone else has to pay for it.

I'd love to just ask out a prostitute out for dinner and see how she behaves and dresses. Who knows I could learn a thing or two. Also I've heard a lot of guys on here say that women who sleep with a lot of men know how to seduce. Do you think I could/should take a prostitute out and ask her to teach me how to pick up? ( of course the only trade I'd be willing to give her is a free dinner, a fun time hanging out with me and good sex ).

Troy

 

[wardog]

NO!

There is nothing that could possibly be worse for your Frame than to pay a woman for sex. Think about this...

Absolutely second that.

What can I do? It's no fun [...] going out alone to chat up chicks all the time. Any other solutions that could help me quickly pick up?

There is no magic pill, no shortcut. Learning seduction is learning a skill. And that does take time. No one can do this work for you, you have to do it yourself. It's not gonna be a cake walk, but the price is fucking worth it.

 

[ray_zorse]

Go out alone to chat up chicks all the time.



Works for me. Best cure for loneliness there is

-Ray

 

[Drck]

It's quite an interesting topic, I never really thought about it much. IMO you guys are putting too much importance on sleeping with the girl, for money or not. Girls like sex, some do it for money, others not, but all like money. They are just pussies, who really cares?

Actually, when you think about it, most 'honest' girls find providers and even though the guy doesn't pay directly for sex, he pays A LOT for being with that girl. Sometimes it costs the guy his retirement money, house he paid for, the salary he spent on her for X years...

So I don't see the issue with paying, you always pay for having 'fun' anyway - whether you go to a concert, to have a good meal and couple of drinks at your local restaurant/bar, to see hockey or football or baseball, bungee jumping and so on, you simply always pay for fun. I would be much more concerned about the possible STDs.

Also, it is just a matter of an opinion, but hiring a girl like that is much easier to get some experience and mainly the needed confidence. You simply start low, with 'easy' girls, boost your confidence and experience, and work yourself up to more difficult level. The confidence boost can be quite significant, let me tell you, with this confidence you can easily jump many steps ahead... Paying could damage the guy, true, but only if he considers the interaction as too serious. If you go to a concert and pay $150 for tickets, you probably don't consider the money to be that important, as long as the concert is good. You simply just enjoy while learning new things that will help you in the future, and that is the whole point.

 

[Chase]

Drck-

IMO you guys are putting too much importance on sleeping with the girl, for money or not. Girls like sex, some do it for money, others not, but all like money. They are just pussies, who really cares?

The reason why Drexel and Franco and the others and I are putting so much importance on this is because we've been around a long time and have witnessed one guy after another after another go down this road and what the effects are.

It always starts off with someone who's frustrated because he isn't seeing the results he wants with women and figure this'll be a convenient shortcut, or someone who's tired of going through the dating process and reckons this'll be a nice break from it. Where it ends up is what we've talked about before.

It might be the case that a guy has just decided he's "over" women and doesn't care about getting good with girls or being able to get the women he wants in some kind of stable long-term relationship. If that's the case, and he's certain about it (maybe he's got big fish to fry and women really just aren't a concern of his, but he needs his sexual needs tended to), then more power to him. Obviously he probably won't be a guy hanging around here much, because he's going one path ("I'd rather just buy the women who are for sale at the prices I can afford so I can focus on XYZ other thing I'm focused on") while the folks on this board are on another ("How do I get and sleep with and date women I genuinely like, who are not for sale for anyone who isn't an Arab prince?").

Now, if he desires some kind of happy, stable long-term relationship, or to be able to bed women who aren't charging money, this is a bad road to go down for any guy who isn't already extremely skilled with women. I've known a few guys who can handle it okay, but it's sort of like being the guy who does coke and says, "Hey, I've been doing coke for years and I'm not addicted; what's the big deal? Just give it a snort."

I've seen some guys who are very skilled with women "dabble" with hookers and be fine. So long as you continue to pick up and sleep with more non-working girls than you do working girls, it seems like it doesn't impact your abilities or mentality. If you go over a 50/50 mix though, it changes you in a way that anyone who isn't a hooker or a whoremonger considers "unfruitful".

Ultimately, people have varying levels of addiction sensitivity, but the guys most tempted to get into mongering are nearly always the one most vulnerable to addiction - that is, the ones who aren't able to consistently attract and bed the women they want anyway.

Chase

 

[Troy]

Go out alone to chat up chicks all the time.



Works for me. Best cure for loneliness there is

-Ray

I spend over 10 hours at school 5 days a week. So I'm putting much focus into learning how to attract and date girls in a big social circle. Everyone knows each other so you wouldn't have to talk to someone to know their social value.

Slightly unrelated question: You talk about going out alone. I just took a walk around school alone to get to a class that I'm volunteering to teach.. And a girl that I know likes me, saw me alone and suddenly I felt bad. Everyone walks in groups everywhere they go. I feel I'm making it harder on myself to attract the girl's since I'm up and down alone so often. I'm just wondering if there is a lack of social proof that is causing me to not improve faster.

I'll usually be walking with a acquaintance. Then we part ways and I'm walking alone till another acquaintance who is cool with me sees me and we walk together. I keep thinking that people are watching these things and might have realized that I'm just a guy with many acquaintances, no close friends unlike everyone else.. What's your thoughts on all this?

Troy

 

[Franco]

Troy,

Slightly unrelated question: You talk about going out alone. I just took a walk around school alone to get to a class that I'm volunteering to teach.. And a girl that I know likes me, saw me alone and suddenly I felt bad. Everyone walks in groups everywhere they go. I feel I'm making it harder on myself to attract the girl's since I'm up and down alone so often. I'm just wondering if there is a lack of social proof that is causing me to not improve faster.

I'll usually be walking with a acquaintance. Then we part ways and I'm walking alone till another acquaintance who is cool with me sees me and we walk together. I keep thinking that people are watching these things and might have realized that I'm just a guy with many acquaintances, no close friends unlike everyone else.. What's your thoughts on all this?

It's fine building up your social circle appeal to women you engage with regularly, but I believe Ray was referring to cold approach when he talks about "going out alone." This doesn't mean walking around your school by yourself because you'll be encountering people who have a social tie to you in some form or another. Instead, you want to head to your local mall or high traffic area where you can meet lots of new women and practice opening them. Grocery stores are also good places to open women and give you easy situational openers (i.e. "Oh, so you're into Ragu sauce also, huh?")

Also, from my personal experience, walking with "acquaintances" usually just makes it harder for me to approach women because I give myself more excuses not to. The only time it's helpful is when the guy I'm walking with is also there to pick up women (or knows that I'm there to do it), so he comes with me as more of a supporter and morale booster rather than a random guy who's going to prevent me from taking action.

- Franco

 

[Drck]

I see what you are saying Chase. IMO it depends on the particular person anyway, if Troy or any other guy decides to go down this road (or any other road), sooner or later he will do it regardless.

Sometimes it is all about choices we guys can make, and we can chose the best only when we have the best information available. Not having enough information is perhaps the biggest obstacle most of the time, that's when people go down the lesser or least optimal way. For some, forbidden or unknown fruit taste the best; others are happy with good advice...

There are always different views to see the same thing, there are always different ways to reach the same destination. Sometimes a person is frustrated because he just can't overcome one obstacle, he's got to keep doing the same thing over and over until he becomes successful, which may unfortunately take many months, if not years... Other times it is much easier to do something that is frustrating less; that actually makes the person perhaps even happy. And with that attitude, with that boost of confidence, a person could move forward on with more ease...

And guy shall move forward, forward into the Kingdom of Seduction!

 

[Franco]

Troy,

Exactly what I thought and I'd been planning to visit this Friday. For only $15 I could spend 3 hours fucking a girl while taking the periodic rest to talk to her like a real person. I thought that if i'd get sex from a girl, any girl I'd be confident with all women. My first time made me feel horrible because there was no talk, just action. I didn't even know the girl's name. Sigh moving on from that experience still.

I re-read this part and wanted to comment on it.

The only reason you would feel "horrible" about this experience is that you didn't have a tangible "goal" going into it OR your goal was unattainable and out of reach. If your goal was, "I want to experience what sex is like so I no longer fear the act of sex itself," then the experience would have been perfect. You would have experienced sex, realized it was no big deal, and now gained the confidence to go talk to women knowing that you know how sex works and what it feels like.

If your thought process instead was, "I want to do this so I can feel what it's like to connect with women beyond a deeply sexual level," then your goal was exceeding what the interaction was supposed to be; a prostitute is not there to talk to you and give you the "girlfriend" experience in between rounds of sex. She's there to get your rocks off -- for a price. (NOTE: Maybe there's some higher quality prostitutes who will attempt to give you a full "girlfriend experience," but even then, you're attempting to emulate a girlfriend-like experience with a girl who may not even have qualities or interests that attract you, so it's a gamble in the dark)

Make sure that when you choose to take an action (especially a costly one), you have a clear goal in mind of what that action is supposed to accomplish. If you don't have a clear, attainable goal attached to your action, you're going to end up feeling miserable when things don't go as you thought they would.

- Franco

 

[Troy]

A lot of information to process before making any decisions.I agree with at least one thing that everyone has to say here. I think there is 3 sides to this ( & every ) argument: the right, the wrong, and the real truth from god ( for those who aren't religious it's going to be your belief of a right and a wrong ). For me to properly analyze this and decide what to do I'll have to put myself in all of your shoes now and think why you said what you said.

that actually makes the person perhaps even happy. And with that attitude, with that boost of confidence, a person could move forward on with more ease...

Starting I'll agree with Drck that being happy is first and foremost important. Being happy can boost your confidence sky high and cause you to be successful a lot faster than if you're going through one rejection after another and fighting the losers game. However Drck, I disagree with what you said about me going down this road no matter what anyone tells me. I'm a person that weighs advice then listens to it and test it out to see if it's logical. I can only speak for myself; while it may or may not happen will ultimately depend on how I feel in the future. And when the feeling does come up I'll make a decision before going through. All respect to what you said still; every man to his own opinion. Might I ask if you have the same idea of paying for a prostitute?

It's fine building up your social circle appeal to women you engage with regularly, but I believe Ray was referring to cold approach when he talks about "going out alone."

Right I didn't realize that. Thanks for the clarification. I'm more into social circle stuff since I know I'd be happier in that niche so I just assumed that was what he meant.

Personal opinion: I think social circle can provide more benefits if you're not overly ambitious to sleep with a lot of girls than if cold approach was the main focus. I've had girls ask me for my number in a social circle environment, had them approach me, had a girl ask me out, and had a couple give me kisses on the cheek.It might sound cheesy to some people, yet for me these litle things boost my confidence. None of those things I've experienced while doing a cold approach. Also for things like deep diving and really getting to know a girl I practise doing social circle game. Things like these can't really be done during cold approach on the street. Anyway Blah blah blah..... that's for another post, another day.

Troy I actually like the idea you had at the end of your response to me. Paying for a hooker for her time (with sex maybe off the table) and just being open-heart vulnerable and saying to her, "Please tell me honestly, I am paying you to learn this...what is it about me that girls aren't attracted to? What could I be doing now that would make you more interested?"

I don't know, you'd have to find a really honest one, but that might also be the only honest feedback you'll ever get from a woman regarding your attractiveness. most just give the "women like flowers and nice guys" bullshit, so if you tell the hooker you know that's BS, I don't know. Could be worth exploring

Definitely I would pay a prostitute to teach me what to do to attract women. I'm not so much interested in the sex. I'm more interested in talking to her and treating her like a human being unlike she was a piece of meat to be fucked and done. If I'd pay I know I'd be in a room with her and before we had sex I'd ask her to take a good look at me all naked and tell me what I could do to attract more girls. I'd prefer if the sex was more like lessons. She would show me how to grind, how to dip it in and how to pull it out.

I know man because no matter how confident and straightforward those regular girls are they won't be honest with you and tell you what needs improvement. Especially the girls that know you already as a friend, they would be most guilty of lying. I would prefer to take out a prostitute and treat her to dinner and get to know her.

there is no QUICK way to learn besides consciously re-wiring your mind and the beliefs that are holding you back. Everything emanates from your MIND and what you BELIEVE to be true about how men and women interact, and what your value is, and what a woman's value is. Trust me when I say it doesn't have to be based on "reality" as you perceive it, you can shortcut "reality" and begin to think like someone who is successfully without any evidence for your being able to do so...and it will still change you from the inside

How do I do that? How would a man who has never experienced something convince himself 100% that he is successful and confident?

The only reason you would feel "horrible" about this experience is that you didn't have a tangible "goal" going into it OR your goal was unattainable and out of reach. If your goal was, "I want to experience what sex is like so I no longer fear the act of sex itself," then the experience would have been perfect. You would have experienced sex, realized it was no big deal, and now gained the confidence to go talk to women knowing that you know how sex works and what it feels like.

A girlfriend experience is definitely what I would want but only for a date. Prostitutes are broken women and brokedness brings only disaster so I wouldn't stick around to hear all their issues.

This is a gamble: I could learn something or I could lose something. Mhmm I'll have to think this through and get back to letting everyone know what path I will take.

Here is my goal: " Go out with no money to buy sex. Let the prostitutes approach me ( they do that everytime ), and I'll talk to them. I'll flirt with them then ask them out. They might put up a price for saying yes to go out with me and I'll counter offer that I pay for their dinner ONLY and give them a good time.

Does that goal sound too complex?

By the way, there has been a change of plans for Friday. I asked out two girls yesterday who are besties and they said yes to go get dinner.

For whenever again I have this temptation I'll come back to this tread and think carefully before acting. And again, as Drexel said " NO! " I'm still hearing it everytime I read it over, I might just pick that option.

Troy

 

[Franco]

Troy,

Here is my goal: " Go out with no money to buy sex. Let the prostitutes approach me ( they do that everytime ), and I'll talk to them. I'll flirt with them then ask them out. They might put up a price for saying yes to go out with me and I'll counter offer that I pay for their dinner ONLY and give them a good time.

Does that goal sound too complex?

Your goal should have a "lasting improvement effect" on you though. So honest question: what are you hoping to gain from doing this that will improve your life with women?

- Franco

 

[Troy]

Your goal should have a "lasting improvement effect" on you though. So honest question: what are you hoping to gain from doing this that will improve your life with women?

What I aim to get from the experience is getting a honest opinion on how attractive I am, what I should fix immediately, and learn what these women are like. Also I'd want a professional to teach me how to have better sex.

Those are my goals.

Troy

 

[Franco]

Troy,

What I aim to get from the experience is getting a honest opinion on how attractive I am, what I should fix immediately, and learn what these women are like. Also I'd want a professional to teach me how to have better sex.

I don't think you'll be able to get a single one of these from a prostitute, unfortunately. You might get some better tips on sex, but even that won't be better than what is already provided on Chase's website (if read and practiced correctly).

Also, it's the same answer with anything having to do with "attractiveness." If she comments on any genetic features (i.e. "eyes, face shape, hair type/color"), how is this going to help you? You cannot change these features, and getting one woman's opinion is not going to define what the other 4 billion women on this planet will think of your physical attractiveness.

If she comments on your fashion, then that is something that is already taken care of on this website by reading through Darius Belejevas's articles and understanding his fashion tips. Chase also has a few articles on grooming/fashion if you search for them.

As far as knowing what these women are like, I guess that's fine. But again, how does this help improve YOU?

I think you're expecting these prostitutes to give you resolute answers to questions that they don't have the answers to. The only gain you might get out of the interaction is practicing your sexual technique, but even that is hard to replicate with a woman of whom you are paying money to sleep with. There is no prior emotion/thrill/connection there, so I'd say the only thing you might be improving is your stamina during intercourse.

If any of us thought you would get some truly valuable information from hiring prostitutes, then it would be one of the first steps we would recommend on this website instead rather than what we already do recommend. =)

- Franco

 

[Drck]

IMO it is about having fun, not about having argument about what is better approach. Girls are girls, IMO nobody really cares if you pay for sex or not, that is your choice. What I meant is, that you choose whatever you want to choose anyway, based on your previous experiences, what you read here or some other places, what is your morale that you grew up with, whether you feel up to it on that particular day, how many factors you include in your logical decisions and so on. There are thousands of factors.

It would be actually quite a good philosophical question, to argue whether we really have 'free will' or whether every of our choices are already pre-determined based on past and current experiences. Any new factor you include in your thinking process may influence the final results...

Personally I wouldn't go for a date with prostitute, unless you find something interesting on her personality. I doubt that she (or any other girl) will tell you much about you or how to attract other women. She might, but even at her best you won't find better answers that you already have on GC. IMO she will just try to make you feel good about yourself. I had girl telling me that I look sexier than Italian - yet she went and fucked another guy. She said it only so I don't feel bad about myself, LOL. On the other hand, she could teach you sex quite well...

I don't see any problems with practicing first before going to 'real' world though. Actors are practicing acting before they go on a podium, pilots are practicing before they flight real planes, bikers are practicing on the parking lot before they go on a busy street, doctors are practicing on fake patients before they are allowed to touch real one, lawyers are practicing fake cases before they go for trial...

It would actually be a great business idea to open a school where guys can practice dating, perhaps even sleeping with girls. Practice approaching, conversations, overcoming resistance, getting her to a place, sleeping with her... All fake with properly trained girls, 1-2 months courses are good enough... I'm not talking about a boot camp, this would be a regular school. At the end the guy would get a report card: MF for Miserably Fail, LL for Lucky Looser, EA for Excellent Asshole and so on. Hey, anybody out there wants to make millions the unconventional way??? There you go, just don't claim that it was YOUR original idea! Good luck with getting a license though, LOL



Anyway, there is only one Truth - it only depends which part of it we are allowed to see

 

[Rage]

I suppose that everyone’s entitled to their opinion… found that this was an interesting topic and did wanna chime in with my 2 cents though.

I liked Chase’s analogy on the other post about the Odyssey and strip clubs.

Another analogy came to my mind when reading this thread and the other thread (again this is just in my opinion and with myself in mind, but if a friend made choices otherwise or did things differently, then any positive or negative ends that would befall him would happen so from them).

I thought of sleeping with strippers or prostitutes in the pursuit of quickly level up on your game, as similar to taking steroids to quickly get big and strong in the gym.

I’ve been lifting for 2 and a half years now plus a couple years behind that of doing calisthenics. Many guys (perhaps half or so) take roids in their first couple of years training.

They never take them with the purpose of taking them and staying on them, it’s always just trying them just to try them and stay natural or just to see what happens. None that try in this way do get off them right away when they do get on, because they work and work well, really well!

With girls the end goal is lots of hot sex; gym the end goal is lots of size and strength.

The guys that try roids try and they can’t get off. They love it because it’s just incredibly better in every single possible way than being natural is. They're better looking, stronger, fuller, bigger, more vascular more horny, so many upsides with little downsides! (With the strippers and prostitutes I imagine it’s equivalent that you're getting laid with hot women left and right and enjoying it and potentially learning a number of things too)

They personally identify with the gains they make on roids: how big and strong they are and all they’ve gained from them… all the progress and results, they identify with them …

They could have gotten there usually (if not abusing) with 5 years of hard training but are instead getting there with 1 or 2.

The problem here is that they haven’t earned the rewards; nothing in life you can really truly get with all the fulfillment and satisfaction and rewards of without truly deserving them. If they come off the roids, they lose the gains… they lose the strength and size and it sucks all of a sudden.

I‘ve made gains the past 2 and a half years some 40 plus pounds of muscle plus a few of fat. And see now, finally, that I’m quite a bit stronger than many of the guys on roids… and I had to work way way harder than them and it was incredibly difficult took much longer and 5-6 days a week in the gym since forever plus the smartest methods of training.

It’s hard work and not fun and that’s the point it’s not supposed to be easy or fun; it’s a grind but in doing it you eventually one day progress bit by bit and achieve higher heights (and you learn to take satisfaction in the hardship of it).

Now I’m satisfied because the gains I've made I get to keep while the shortcut guys sure got what they did but at a cost and they have to keep “paying for the sex “if they wanna keep getting it.

…

In regards to once you're a master going back to strip clubs:

Mastery is said to take 5-7 years; or roughly 10,000 hours according to Malcolm Gladwell. The proper way to use roids and how many pros have used them is to train for 7-10 years or even more than that naturally first and then try steroids when they want to up their game and try next level shit.

Sounds similar to the strip clubs and prostitutes in my opinion: when you’ve been at it for 10 years like Chase and are a master you can go and try out fucking strippers and prostitutes and getting them to pay you even …

But till you're a master, they’re better avoided because of the dependency and because of the negative effects that come from them (which in terms of roids are not very much at face vaue but in accumulation over periods of months or years have a snowball effect and are quite detrimental … same would be to the guys that get addicted to dropping bank every week for sex with a hooker I imagine)

Again all this in my opinion; but in my opinion for myself, yeah not worth the risk because one try could get you hooked at how much better and easier it all is (especially if you are a rather addictive personality like myself)… and not worth fucking around with till I've put all the blood sweat and tears in and am at some higher level up, near mastery.

-Gem