Socializing Slow social brain: how to deal with it in the social arts and seduction?

[DArtagnan]

Cheers everybody,

I feel I need to share with you an important obstacle that I have in learning seduction and social skills: I'm simply a slow thinker. I have always been like this, and I'm not sure if I will be able to change that.

I've had good results in the past in many intellectual areas: was a good student, went to study abroad, did a PhD, have a lot of knowledge in music, psychology, and in other interest areas. This has never been because I'm "smart" though, it has never been easy, but rather because I'm more calm, more confident, more disciplined, and I just pay more attention to the info presented to me, and I am capable to sit down, process the info, and learn from it. I have the confidence that "given enough time", I am able to learn it. The problem is the "given enough time" condition...

I don't think I'm autistic. At least not in the standard definition of the term. I consider myself to be very sensitive and empathetic. I've said it before in my journal: I think I'm good at reading people, detecting their intentions, picking up hints. I know when girls are showing signs of interest, throwing approach invitations, flirting with me, testing me. This applies to male friends or competitors too.

The problem is that, even though I detect these social cues from others, I never know how to react to it, I'm usually speechless.

I feel that I'm simply too slow. A girl flirts with me, and I start thinking "how the wheck am I going to flirt back"? A girl tests me, and I think "she's testing me, but her argument holds at first glane, I don't know how to counteract it", a male guy challenges me in some debate, and I know deep down that I'm right, but don't know what to say at the time.

I would like to know if anybody here resonates with this, and what do you do to deal with it?

Here are a few ideas already, and I feel like many of you, as more experienced seducers and social artists, will probably say yes to many of these ideas, or at least I hope so. I would still like to have a confirmation, and some hope that these are actually feasible with time.

* Do you spend a lot of time alone at home writing down everything that goes wrong, and thinking of what you could have said, word by word? I can detect where things went wrong from post-analysis, yes, but for actually finding a solution and the exact thing that I should have said or done, I can easily spend hours. Does this get better over time? I hope so.

* Do you pre-hone your arguments, do you think things very deeply before even saying anything about it, until the logic and arguments are crystal-clear? This is not at all my way of reasoning. I'm a very "intuitive" thinker. Most of times I can describe an idea, a feeling, an opinion in a draft, fuzzy, cloudy manner, even though I know I'm right many times, at least with respect to my inner values. However, once again, if I have to stop and pre-refine the arguments, I can spend a lot of time on it.

* Do things just get better with time, by approaching and socializing massively? For example, at some point do things just start to click and you find ways of handling tests and teasing girls, naturally, by experience? I've had my share of girls testing me, and I'm a more or less social guy. However, I still fall over and over again for the easiest of the tests or challenges, coming from male or female. Does doing it in a "massive scale" change things?

* Do you consciously work on improvising, wining debates, frame control, bullshitting, or similar things? Such as taking classes and so on? (I'm thinking of Monty Python's "Argument Clinic" here

Thank you all for any input!

 

[empath]

I am like this.

These days I have made peace with myself I will not win every argument or social situation.

But now I have decided to be most aggressive in the moment but if I fail. Can try again in the next interaction.

But will not delve on it.

Also, it gets better with time and exposure.

But if anyone has solution to become fast in the moment, like guys who are naturally very I am very curious to hear.

 

[DArtagnan]

Thank you so much, @empath. It feels good to have even a single answer like yours, it really does. It's good to know that I'm not alone.

I realize that writing this message was already a good exercise by itself. I've kind of came up with the same conclusion that you: it's not worth putting too much expectations on ourselves. It's like you say: it's better to accept that we might reach a certain limit and live with that.

With this in mind, it's already more motivating to think about improving. It won't be about reaching an absolute goal, but a relative one: relative to our abilities and investment.

I've also thought about another important point, which is obvious and teached over and over in this community: focus on fundamentals. I will continue trying, at least at this first moment, to improve my fundamentals, and hope to go as far as possible with them, that is relying on nonverbal game, since the verbal part is my weak point.

I'm still curious to see how others dealt with it too.

 

[KJ Francis]

did a PhD, have a lot of knowledge in music, psychology, and in other interest areas. This has never been because I'm "smart" though

I get what you're saying but still have to call a little bullshit on this one, Dr. d'Artagnan!

Do you spend a lot of time alone at home writing down everything that goes wrong, and thinking of what you could have said, word by word

I don't spend a ton of time deliberating, but I do try to type out the interaction as soon as possible afterwards, and will definitely add little one sentence notes in between on what I forgot to do, and maybe little things I could have said instead.

Here is an example from night game. See they are just little comments, so not much added time, but helpful.

Slim cute girl wandering alone in a house music lounge, looking at the wall. When she turned I waved up a hand

Me: Hi, how's your night going.

{Forgot to smile. She was a little reserved.}

Her: Good. How's yours?

Me: Good, thanks. I was wondering what you were looking at

Her: Oh the plants. I was wondering if they were real

Me: And are they... real?

Her: Yes they were

Me: Not surprised. What brings you out tonight?

{Forgot to tease on plant expertise or cold read on gardener}

Her: Oh my friend knew about it

Me: Celebrating anything?

Her: No, are you celebrating?

Me: Oh no, I recently moved to the city and am just checking it out. Did you come out to dance?

{Forgot to pace her reality and ask why she's wandering around away from her friends}

Her: Not really, but I do like to dance.

Me: Oh what type of dance?

{Should use less questions more statements}

Her: Jazz and ballet

Me: What got you into dancing?

Her: Oh my mom got me into it when I was younger and I was a full time professional dance teacher for years.

{Summarized words a bit. Got her name here with hand hold. Learned should reach with left hand if she has a drink in her right}

Me: Do you still dance?

Her: Not so much anymore. I changed to cardiology.

Me: Oh you're studying for it now?

Her: No I finished.

Me: So what do you do exactly?

Her: {some technical words, monitors pacemakers}

Me: Nice, so you must be out to let loose. Must be stressful

Her: {explained not really, not on call, still does emergencies, says which hospital}

Me: Oh I work on the same street at {work}.

{Should have moved her earlier and not have forced commonality. Too attainable. Conversation lulled and she was it was nice talking to you.}

This is why I made the Process thread in the tactics section. It is a checklist. So when I'm thinking over everything I did wrong, it is not all over the place, but has a focused list of things I can quickly go over, as if I was training an apprentice at work or something.

But yes I ALWAYS come up with some idea of something I could have said and sort of kick myself for not thinking on my feet quickly enough in the moment.

***

To be honest, I think the only way to deal with it is practice. Partly to just get better at being witty, but mostly because there are only so many permutations to what a girl can respond.

When Mystery talks about "calibration", he is actually talking about this. This is why his newbie drill is to do TWELVE sets in a SINGLE night, FOUR times a week for SIX weeks! That's a LOT!

A big part of the reasoning is that because you are practicing the same game plan, you are going to hear the same five or so responses to the things you say over and over. And you will learn how to respond because you've heard some variation of it all before.

So he says that gives you natural calibration because you will adjust to the situations automatically from so much exposure.

I am struggling to hit this level of volume, but maybe some of the guys who do long sessions can offer insight into how their wit has developed from repeated practice after extra high volume.

In the meantime, a good default response to tests if you can't think of anything is from 60 Years of Challenge - just shrug and say fair enough. Kind of look to the side in a bored way. And this:

Tactics Tuesdays: Breaking Women's Tests with "Only"

When women test you about “other girls”, there’s one simple but powerful teasing response you can use: “only the girls who… [FILL IN THE BLANK]!” Wouldn’t it be great to have a super SIMPLE one-size-fits-all teasing formula you could use to defuse a large number of the most common tests women...

www.girlschase.com

 

[KJ Francis]

focus on fundamentals. I will continue trying, at least at this first moment, to improve my fundamentals, and hope to go as far as possible with them, that is relying on nonverbal game, since the verbal part is my weak point

This is a great idea too. Consistent with the law of least effort, a simple smirk and nonverbal communication with the eyes can go a long way if you have good posture, unreactive slow movement, etc.

 

[DArtagnan]

Thanks for sharing your take, @KJ Francis.

Interesting to see your report notes.

But yes I ALWAYS come up with some idea of something I could have said and sort of kick myself for not thinking on my feet quickly enough in the moment.

***

To be honest, I think the only way to deal with it is practice. Partly to just get better at being witty, but mostly because there are only so many permutations to what a girl can respond.

When Mystery talks about "calibration", he is actually talking about this. This is why his newbie drill is to do TWELVE sets in a SINGLE night, FOUR times a week for SIX weeks! That's a LOT!

I see, and such feedback is what I was hoping to get. It gives me hopes to know that indeed some kind of calibration starts to happen, and you just start knowing how to react. I guess I'm still far from doing a volume which allows for such thing, but that is motivational!

 

[James D]

@DArtagnan

My suggestion is to stop thinking altogether.

In other words: presence.

Buy The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle. He explains everything.

Stop thinking, become present and act.

You will make mistakes.

When you're out of the society situation, that's when you switch thinking on again and you analyse.

Once you're done, you switch it off and get back to socializing.

The reflection you make after operating with maximum presence tends to be the most accurate one.

Try and let me know.

Your thinking mind might reject this because the one thing it hates is to stop thinking.

Go read Tolle's book asap and get started on breaking identification with your mind.

 

[Chase]

@DArtagnan,

This is probably just lack of experience, man. Not some kind of brain defect or anything, haha.

I went through this for years, always being a step behind, feeling a bit bewildered in all kinds of situations.

I started getting a lot sharper in pickup after I'd been going out 3-4 nights a week for a year-and-a-half, but then I got this high-powered wingman with his crew of party people and we'd be hanging out with them and once again I didn't know what to do with these people.

So then I went hard on social circle for a couple years and got a lot sharper there. But I ended up around really wealthy people, hyper ambitious business folks and social climbers, and once again I was constantly a step behind. It took me a few more years before I was at that level.

Yes, there's analysis, there are shower thoughts / shower debates, there's the "Oooh, I should've said this! Darn it!" moments (then hopefully you remember and actually do say it next time).

But there are also important mindset shifts you go through that disinhibit you in those situations, which is really where the reaction speed comes from. Like, if I remember beginner pickup me it was like, "I don't want to say the wrong thing and piss this girl off." But then you reach a point where you are like, "I know how to talk to women in ways they like," and you don't think that way anymore.

Same deal with social circle: "I don't want to say the wrong thing and make them think I'm weird." Later it's, "The more I talk, the more these people are gonna like me."

Same with business: "I don't want to misspeak and betray my inexperience or scare off a potential great connection." Later: "The more clearly I speak the more we're going to find out if there's actually a match here, so let's get into it."

I don't think there's any shortcut there.

You just have to gain enough skill + enough positive reference experiences that you naturally disinhibit yourself in similar situations.

Chase

 

[empath]

One more thing that came to me is just having more focus on outside world.

Like observer physical changes around you. Share your thoughts theories etc.

Observe how different people are dressed differently, share that observation to your friend, tell them if its cool or looks out of place.

Then share those, to people around you become talktive to extream for once.

Don't think just run your mouth.

After a while you get good enough sense from reaction of people whether they are laughing or getting annoyed.

Keep tweaking until you get desired reactions.

Make friends with extreamly talktive people.

Naturals I have observed they just talk.

They like to share.

Its just early social exposure.

Thats all.

Basically all humor is just

1) Absurdity/over amplification or misinterpretation of something someone said

Also, stop taking these conversation seriously

Amuse yourself while out with people.

Its that simple.

Its not even related to seduction, normal human behaviour.

People like to talk, even if the conversation is meaningless.

Not every conversation needs to purposeful.

Also, listen to others and see if your thoughts align with them or are they different.

 

[DArtagnan]

Thanks mates, lots of good input here.

Buy The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle. He explains everything.

@James D, that's a great reference, I've actually read it a few years ago and found it very interesting. However I had some trouble understanding the core concept: being in the present, even though I like psychology and resonate with other buddhist and spiritual ideas. That's maybe a hint that this is exactly my blocking point: the present, the now.

Yes, there's analysis, there are shower thoughts / shower debates, there's the "Oooh, I should've said this! Darn it!" moments (then hopefully you remember and actually do say it next time).

But there are also important mindset shifts you go through that disinhibit you in those situations, which is really where the reaction speed comes from. Like, if I remember beginner pickup me it was like, "I don't want to say the wrong thing and piss this girl off." But then you reach a point where you are like, "I know how to talk to women in ways they like," and you don't think that way anymore.

Thanks, @Chase. I think you are right: I need a lot more experience and exposure. I have been very introvert in the past. It's good to know that a shift comes with time. I will keep this in mind as a motivation.

Also, stop taking these conversation seriously

Amuse yourself while out with people.

Its that simple.

Its not even related to seduction, normal human behaviour.

People like to talk, even if the conversation is meaningless.

Not every conversation needs to purposeful.

Good points, @empath. I see what you mean, I also have this impression sometimes. Extroverts and naturals just talk as if they are thinking aloud. Indeed they don't seem to care too much. That's a good way to go about it.