Social burden

[flowerpower]

Since Chase hasn't yet written an article on what makes a social burden, I'd like to discuss the idea here in the meantime.

Being a social burden. The concept of the social burden is a pretty interesting one, and one I'll probably do a post on at some point. Basically, when you've just met someone there's often a fear that you're going to stick around and not leave and be a burden on them socially, even if you seem like a really cool guy. Socially calibrated men are very good at defusing the fear of the social burden, and thus move past this quite quickly.
There are ways to adroitly hang onto a woman while simultaneously defusing the fear of the social burdens, which I'll cover more in-depth when I get a post on this up, but for now, suffice it to say that speaking slowly and with lots of pauses is a very good place to start. It allows women to relax and know that they'll be able to get a word in and end the conversation if they need to, which is freeing for them to know and alleviates much of the fear.

And I have a quick question about creepiness. Just following the quote above, Chase writes that a factor for creepiness is "being truly indirect verbally, while communicating interest nonverbally". I've known people who never really state their interest verbally yet couldn't be called creepy and are very successful, so how do you reconcile the two? Can you be suave and sexual enough without having to say you like the girl? Isn't getting to know her, asking the right questions, moving her, etc. good enough?

 

[Thedoctor]

Here's a good article Chase wrote on creepiness:

https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-not-be-creepy-guy

Hope it helps

-Doc

 

[Thedoctor]

And I just realized that quote is from that article. oops.

Chase does address your concern in that article though. The whole non-direct verbal with direct non-verbal is basically just conveying to someone what you want from them. If you sit there talking to her, never showing much interest verbally (flirting etc), chances she's going to wonder why you're talking to her. Especially if non-verbally you're coming on very strong (Turned directly facing her, excessive staring etc.)

It's no different than one of those texts where someone just sends "Hey."
The first thing you wonder about that text is: What does this person want?
A better text is: "Hey! Haven't heard from you in a while. Are you free sometime soon to grab a coffee and catch up?"
That way you know exactly what it is they want and you can respond accordingly.

If you convey more direct interest a girl she has 3 choices:
-to return the interest
-to see where it goes (you'll have to work a bit harder)
-to reject you

But she knows what you want.

That's not to say that indirect openers don't work. Nor does it mean for you to go up and profess your undying love for a girl. But by being a bit more direct, then she'll at least have some idea why you're talking to her.

 

[flowerpower]

Hi Doc,
As you say, she knows what you want. And I'm wondering if using non-verbals like what I mentioned (sexy voice etc) isn't enough, without having to express your interest directly - which would be less romantic and could kill the vibe in a way, especially if you've managed to make her feel like you know she knows what you want (1) and know she's interested too (2).

 

[Thedoctor]

Well if you know she's interested, you shouldn't be concerned about coming off as a social burden or creepy. Creepy is more of a problem for beginners. If your fundamentals are fairly solid and you are a decent conversationalist then it really shouldn't be a problem. The more social you become, the less you'll worry about coming off as a social burden. Just examine your results. If she talks to you, enjoys herself, and things escalate, then you're not being creepy. Can I ask for an example or a reason as to why you're concerned about this?

 

[flowerpower]

It's just a feeling I get sometimes. And there's been a few times when I didn't actually try to seduce a girl but just talked in a sexual way because I think it's fun talking that way to women, and they told me or other people I was hitting on them - quite alarming when they aren't my type. But anyway, feeling like a bit of a creep happens to me now and then.

 

[Thedoctor]

I'm assuming these are girls that are in your social circle? If that is the case, why are you talking to them in a sexual way if you have no interest in them sexually?

Again, this is the same problem: your verbals and non-verbals aren't matching up.

If you are just doing that to practice talking to girls in a sexual way, then make sure these are girls that are outside of your social circle. There's absolutely no harm in making mistakes or being perceived as "creepy" if you're never going to see a girl again. I don't spend as much time with social circles these days anymore since I was tired of the inevitable drama. But when I do, I'm very social and friendly, but completely platonic with all the girls in it. Personally, I don't think it's worth the headache.

 

[flowerpower]

Not exactly social circle girls, more like friends of friends. And I perhaps shouldn't have said 'sexual' but I don't know how else to describe it. It's just the way I speak to any girl (sales clerks, waitresses, ...). Maybe "normal suave" might be better, I don't know. Well, as a matter of fact, not any girl, but girls I have no objection with taking to bed as opposed to girls I wouldn't date in a million years (with whom I behave as I would toward an old lady).

How would you make verbals and non-verbals match up then? Or rather, are you really sure that is the problem, cause then it means you can't be indirect, and telling a girl outright that you like her cannot possibly be a good idea, at least not in a social context. On the street, in the mall, it's different, you've got to be quick and decisive, but when the girl's is a good friend of your pal's girlfriend, it's not the same. By indirect, I mean savvy indirect, which is all innuendos and so on. Why I'm stubborn about this idea is I've experienced it a few times, that "I know you know what I really mean" kind of vibe that direct, not so subtle invitations would kill.
Do you see what I mean?

 

[Thedoctor]

If it's a friend of a friend, I would still consider that your social circle.

Ill try to break give examples of verbals/ non verbals:

Creepy guy:
Verbally: making small talk that doesn't lead anywhere, no sexy vibe, no flirting
Non-verbally: Entire body facing girl directly, too much eye contact

-This is how verbals and non-verbals don't match up. Verbally, whether direct or indirect, he isn't indicating any interest. But his non-verbals are showing way too much interest

Suave guy:
Verbally: small talk transitions smoothly to deep dives, with the right amount of flirting and sexy vibes
Non-verbally: Some of his body facing her, just a little more eye contact than she is giving him.

-His verbals are just the right amount to let her know he's probably interested, just like his non-verbals are showing he's probably interested. Which is most likely going to peak her curiosity in finding out if he actually is interested.

Super confident guy:
Verbally: Tells a girl directly that he likes her
Non-verbally: Walks right up, fully facing her when doing so

-Verbals and non verbals match up directly again. This can actually work if done correctly. But if you walk up confidently, and talk softly and less direct, it comes off creepy.

There's a lot of potential scenarios here of verbals / non-verbals. I'd suggest experimenting with varying degrees of interest verbally and non-verbally.

To answer your question: No, It's not necessary to directly tell a girl you like her, nor are you forced to use direct openers.

But, It's going to be a lot more helpful in your learning curve if you try them as well. Try both direct and indirect openers and conversations. This allows you to learn girls' reactions to both and you'll learn what works best for you. You may think you're coming off suave and charming when being indirect, but without much experience you might not coming off that way at all. That's why you try out everything. Maybe you overdo your directness and come off a bit try-hard, maybe you under-do it and you come off a little creepy. Find the right balance and you come off suave. That's the difference between a social burden and a social guru. The social guru has fined-tuned himself until he got it just right, with consistent results, time and time again. So, experiment with coming on a little stronger, as well as a little softer than you normally have. The more you do it, the more you'll notice all the subtle nuances and it all begins making sense on its own.