Solo 'n sober: can you be as social as if in group 'n tipsy?

[lux7]

I tend to think no.

The whole question would be:
If you go out alone and without drinking anything alcoholic in a bar/club or in a social gathering where you don't know anyone and where people mostly go in group and drink: can you be as natural and social as if you were with friends and/or knew people there and/or were able to drink something?

Unless you're a maverick of some sort, which can be either good or bad, I tend to think no for a number of reasons, but I'd like to hear your opinions.

 

[Richard]

Re: Solo 'n sober: can you be as social as if in group 'n ti

Why not?

 

[MonsterzRock]

Re: Solo 'n sober: can you be as social as if in group 'n ti

Good response, Zphix, LOL!

I haven't had a drop of alcohol in 25 years and I go to bars frequently to watch live bands. As a musician, I'm around this on a weekly basis whether I'm playing or not. It's never an issue when I'm socializing with men and women at the clubs. Does anyone ever give me shit about not drinking? Rarely. If someone does give me shit about, it's usually someone who doesn't know me well and I don't give shit about what they think anyway.

 

[Light]

Re: Solo 'n sober: can you be as social as if in group 'n ti

Why not?

What Zphix says...

I can socialise in any environment with any condition. This isn't an opinion.

 

[lux7]

Re: Solo 'n sober: can you be as social as if in group 'n ti

I believe it's unlikely because this is not one of those example of "mental blocks".

Even if analyzed rationally, it makes sense to be "more cautious" if you're alone rather than with friends.

As an example:
If you go to talk to a first group of people and can't get socializing (for whatever reason, might even be they like you but don't speak the same language), your value for the people around goes down much more strongly than if you were in a group for 2 reasons:
1 there's a higher chance people around will think of you as weirdo/bothering person if you don't have anybody and
2 now that you failed a first time, you don't have a group to go back to where you can "regain social value" and go back to the next group/person in a stronger or neutral position.
Now you either have to sit alone (not really good if everybody is in groups) or you have to go directly again to someone who's already seen you failing. In that case their barriers will be much higher as they'll be thinking "here it comes the weirdo who's already been refused once".
You fail to make friends 2-3 times in a row in small group environment and you've basically burnt your bridges there for a while.

And there are one million more examples why it's easier with a group of friends (might write some I have in mind later).

That's what I meant that it's hardly possible without being a maverick of some sort: because to be completely as natural and have as much fun as if you were with friends, chances are you don't realize about these basic social dynamics, such as you might lack basic social intuition.

I can socialise in any environment with any condition. This isn't an opinion.

Even under heavy enemy artillery fire?

Jokes aside, sure you can socialize, and maybe you can meet as many great people.
But can you regularly be as effective, as confident, as natural and even have as much fun in an unknown environment where you don't know anyone as you'd have if with a group of friends?

I'm not saying you can't, just openly asking.

 

[Richard]

Re: Solo 'n sober: can you be as social as if in group 'n ti

Well Light is a demi-god so he doesn't have problems with anything lol.

I won't get into all the dynamics but social psychology takes a lot of precedence here, and if you're in a group and tipsy, you'll fall into a plethora of traps which, even if you say 'Im not one of those people who will fall into these traps,' you are.

I won't actually mention them because Id rather avoid the usual, "that won't happen to me" response.

Anyway, you say solo has a plethora of problems, you need to understand that it has an almost infinite amount of possibilities that a group doesn't have, and groups have a lot of setbacks as well.

The problem here for most people is, they don't know how to get into a an already established social group. You don't approach the entire group, more often than not, its best to approach a single person in the group before joining the group itself.

No offense for what I'm going to say, but, your problem (if this post is about a struggle you're having) seems to be your fear of judgement and rejection. In actuality people don't care, if you're seen getting booted out of one group, everyone around isn't going to notice, and if they do, they don't care. Going out alone without a group to fall back on is actually one of the best ways to learn because their is no cushion, you're forced to learn to socialize, and you're forced out of your comfort zone which leads to progress. Having a group to catch you will halt your progress.

Chase mentions this in his article about people who actually fix themselves, and people who say they want to fix themselves. Ive been out in both settings, with a group and without, and solo for sure is the best way to go because it allows you to and forces you to learn fast!

Also, if you know how to socialize at all, then groups are always excited to have one more person contributing to the fun. Your state is completely determined by you, your ability to generate fun, and socialize is completely internal, whether you're in a group or not, that ability is still there.

-Enjoy,
Richard

 

[lux7]

Re: Solo 'n sober: can you be as social as if in group 'n ti

I won't actually mention them because Id rather avoid the usual, "that won't happen to me" response.

Honestly, that's the same feeling I had when I wanted to open this topic and I was sure everyone was going to say it's the same or even better and it doesn't apply to them .

I'm not talking about what's better for you, or why and if your group clip your wings (and BTW I don't agree with that, it all depends on your friends ).

Yes you're right, it's much harder for me approaching groups and becoming part of groups when I'm alone in bars/clubs at night time and, strangely, I do fear rejection from mixed groups (strangely because I don't mind too much rejections from girls), and that's one of the reasons why I do wonder if it's even possible being exactly at the same level no matter if alone or with friends.

Having been out often either alone or in different kind of companies and having also met many social people who do go out alone as well, it just comes difficult to me believing it can be as easy to be natural and enter new groups when you're alone than when you've got your own group*.
*Not every situation is the same of course, quite easy going to evening (flat) parties alone and meeting people, so are other private events and places with areas where the music is low and you're almost supposed to meet new people.

I live abroad, it happens quite often that the bar I go to people don't speak English and at beginning of the evening they all sit in (more or less big) groups.
If you approach a group of 5 and you're alone, it's my belief it's much harder to enter that group than if you had friends (Some reasons why: a guy alone is a first small red flag about him being a weirdo/loner; people will wonder if you're going to with them since you don't have anybody; a guy alone is almost always a sign of danger for other guys in the group, while another group especially if mixed can just be there for socializing; your friends can start parallel conversation with other group members thus "opening" it; etc. etc.)
Do you guys have a different view?
In my special case there's also the fact my friends are all from different Countries, speak a bit of the local language and several different foreign languages and that does help a lot in opening groups.

So now my question changes, from "is it possible" I'd ask: how would you make sure that you socialize and you're as natural (and possibly have as much fun) as if your friends were there (and avoiding being the clown of the situation Mystery style)?

 

[Richard]

Re: Solo 'n sober: can you be as social as if in group 'n ti

Maybe I will have to get into the dynamics lol.
Groups do a lot of things, and provide many "traps," and I mean groups of friends.
[*] Groups give you an excuse to not socialize with other groups because you're already having a good time within your own group, you have no reason to go socializ
[*]Unless your friends have social skills, they can hinder progress you may make while opening a group
[*]Group vs. group approaching creates a lot of tension, if 5 people approach another 5 people, it feels like a subconscious challenge, and puts them on edge
[*]If your group of friends isn't comprised of people who can open women or people in general like you, they'll inhibit and halt your want and ability to do so. Friends are people, and if they see you doing something they can't do, they'll compare themselves to you, and will feel jealous of you for doing what they can't. Be careful of who you choose to take out with you, because it can bite you badly!

When you're out and about by yourself, I believe you have to have a few mindsets or even lifestyles in order to succeed.
[*]First off, you have to be an overall positive person
[*]With that, you have to be a person who doesn't rely on others to create your emotional state
[*]On top of that, you have to be someone who can control his emotions. Meaning, you have to be able to motivate yourself, enjoy your free time, and be able to add value to others.

If you've got the above, you don't need a group at all to have fun. Having a group is an easy way to have fun, and is a great way to get your energy flowing. But, think about it. If a woman sees this:
- Guy A laughing and enjoying himself in the presence of his friends. He's exuding a lot of fun energy, and is seemingly exciting
or
-Guy B who is walking confidently, exuding a calm and warm aura. This guy is emanating an exciting energy, and doesn't need to rely on others to make him happy, or let him have a good time...

The girl is going to be more attracted to the latter because he's ALONE in the same state as he would be if he had a group with him, but, his solo vibe is magnetic and alluring to women. The group takes away from that vibe because it's expected that you're happy, and having fun in a group, and if you approach a girl who has noticed you in a group, she'll subconsciously lower your "exuding value" because it's common for her to think you're only happy because you were with friends, and not because you were talking to her...

Likewise, approaching a group is all about how you say what you say to open it, and how you seem when you're approaching the group. If you walk up to 5 people laughing and hollering, and stand around waiting for an opportunity to join, you'll come off as a weirdo. It doesn't matter what a group thinks about you on your initial approach, all people question it, because it's shocking to most people, but what you say afterwards, when you keep talking and adding value to the group, they openly allow you to join them.

The problem most people have when they go out alone is they recognize that they're alone, and they let that thought seep into their being and it takes over. They start to feel nervous, they start to feel like a weirdo and thus come off as one. However, if you go out, and you're smiling, laid back, seemingly care free and enjoying your time, you'll come off as a cool cat, you'll come off as a social man and will be accepted as one. When approaching a group, it's best to have your fundamentals down pact, and have your mind in the right light as, it takes more precision to pull off a group opening, but it is only as hard as you make it Lucifer.

-Richard

 

[Desert Eagle]

Re: Solo 'n sober: can you be as social as if in group 'n ti

If this website has taught me anything, it's that you can have success in any arena.

I don't like to compare things in these scenarios. They are entirely different, so it's a collective shot in the dark to try and figure out which one is easier. For one guy, group 'n tipsy may be all he knows. For the next, solo 'n sober may be all he knows. Go with whatever you want to and do it well .

 

[lux7]

Re: Solo 'n sober: can you be as social as if in group 'n ti

Maybe I will have to get into the dynamics lol.
Groups do a lot of things, and provide many "traps," and I mean groups of friends.
[*] Groups give you an excuse to not socialize with other groups because you're already having a good time within your own group, you have no reason to go socializ
[*]Unless your friends have social skills, they can hinder progress you may make while opening a group
[*]Group vs. group approaching creates a lot of tension, if 5 people approach another 5 people, it feels like a subconscious challenge, and puts them on edge
[*]If your group of friends isn't comprised of people who can open women or people in general like you, they'll inhibit and halt your want and ability to do so. Friends are people, and if they see you doing something they can't do, they'll compare themselves to you, and will feel jealous of you for doing what they can't. Be careful of who you choose to take out with you, because it can bite you badly!

When you're out and about by yourself, I believe you have to have a few mindsets or even lifestyles in order to succeed.
[*]First off, you have to be an overall positive person
[*]With that, you have to be a person who doesn't rely on others to create your emotional state
[*]On top of that, you have to be someone who can control his emotions. Meaning, you have to be able to motivate yourself, enjoy your free time, and be able to add value to others.

If you've got the above, you don't need a group at all to have fun. Having a group is an easy way to have fun, and is a great way to get your energy flowing. But, think about it. If a woman sees this:
- Guy A laughing and enjoying himself in the presence of his friends. He's exuding a lot of fun energy, and is seemingly exciting
or
-Guy B who is walking confidently, exuding a calm and warm aura. This guy is emanating an exciting energy, and doesn't need to rely on others to make him happy, or let him have a good time...

The girl is going to be more attracted to the latter because he's ALONE in the same state as he would be if he had a group with him, but, his solo vibe is magnetic and alluring to women. The group takes away from that vibe because it's expected that you're happy, and having fun in a group, and if you approach a girl who has noticed you in a group, she'll subconsciously lower your "exuding value" because it's common for her to think you're only happy because you were with friends, and not because you were talking to her...

Likewise, approaching a group is all about how you say what you say to open it, and how you seem when you're approaching the group. If you walk up to 5 people laughing and hollering, and stand around waiting for an opportunity to join, you'll come off as a weirdo. It doesn't matter what a group thinks about you on your initial approach, all people question it, because it's shocking to most people, but what you say afterwards, when you keep talking and adding value to the group, they openly allow you to join them.

The problem most people have when they go out alone is they recognize that they're alone, and they let that thought seep into their being and it takes over. They start to feel nervous, they start to feel like a weirdo and thus come off as one. However, if you go out, and you're smiling, laid back, seemingly care free and enjoying your time, you'll come off as a cool cat, you'll come off as a social man and will be accepted as one. When approaching a group, it's best to have your fundamentals down pact, and have your mind in the right light as, it takes more precision to pull off a group opening, but it is only as hard as you make it Lucifer.

-Richard

That won't happen to me!

Ehehe just kidding, I like your post Zphyx, I really do, and especially the boldened part.
I might open a new thread in the future on how to be completely independent of people around you and feeling completely free of going out solo, as I don't remember seeing/meeting anyone who could do that 100%.

However, the part of your message saying "The girl is going to be more attracted to... " made me think of one thing I don't really love about the PUA community, and that's putting the woman at the center of everything.
I love women, I really do (and that's maybe why I dislike part of the PUA community), but I don't have to mold my life around them: when I go out I don't have to do a catwalk for women disregarding all the rest, I also want to have fun, and I'm still wondering if it's possible to be as social and as natural and have as may chances to have fun going out alone as if you do when in a group (and if yes, then I'd wonder why on earth would anybody need any friends? You just go out and meet new ones every time you want to go out... ).
I guess I'll force myself a couple of nights to insert myself socially in new groups on my own and see what happens, maybe it will be great .

 

[Richard]

Re: Solo 'n sober: can you be as social as if in group 'n ti

Lucifer, I completely understand, most guys join the site just to meet women so I have a tendency to throw that in. Anyway, like yourself, I'm not always out to meet women, I'm out to meet everyone, I'm out rebuilding my social circle, and when you can successfully meet new people, its so much better going out alone and meeting many new people!

-Richard

 

[Light]

Re: Solo 'n sober: can you be as social as if in group 'n ti

I believe it's unlikely because this is not one of those example of "mental blocks".

- It is a mental block, and its currently yours.

As an example:
If you go to talk to a first group of people and can't get socializing (for whatever reason, might even be they like you but don't speak the same language), your value for the people around goes down much more strongly than if you were in a group for 2 reasons:
1 there's a higher chance people around will think of you as weirdo/bothering person if you don't have anybody and
2 now that you failed a first time, you don't have a group to go back to where you can "regain social value" and go back to the next group/person in a stronger or neutral position.

- Please note the bold and highlighted words under your own statement. These are nothing but probabilities of your "If's" and "whats".
They are nothing more than just your own opinion and with the thought of failing. This is clearly your mental block.
There is no room for failing in my book.

Light wrote:I can socialise in any environment with any condition. This isn't an opinion.


Even under heavy enemy artillery fire?

- That is where the FUN is, and that's what I do all the time. Its also the main reason why I am so good at it. I'm not saying I haven't failed. But failing is part of the process of learning, and once you've failed over hundreds of time, you will become good at anything. Thomas Edison once said that he didn't fail 1000 times inventing the light bulb. He just simply found 1000 ways which didn't work.

The point I'm trying to make is, all these are your excuses and opinion. Anything and everything can be done as long as you do it enough times.

 

[lux7]

Re: Solo 'n sober: can you be as social as if in group 'n ti

I believe it's unlikely because this is not one of those example of "mental blocks".

- It is a mental block, and its currently yours.

As an example:
If you go to talk to a first group of people and can't get socializing (for whatever reason, might even be they like you but don't speak the same language), your value for the people around goes down much more strongly than if you were in a group for 2 reasons:
1 there's a higher chance people around will think of you as weirdo/bothering person if you don't have anybody and
2 now that you failed a first time, you don't have a group to go back to where you can "regain social value" and go back to the next group/person in a stronger or neutral position.

- Please note the bold and highlighted words under your own statement. These are nothing but probabilities of your "If's" and "whats".
They are nothing more than just your own opinion and with the thought of failing. This is clearly your mental block.
There is no room for failing in my book.

Light wrote:I can socialise in any environment with any condition. This isn't an opinion.


Even under heavy enemy artillery fire?

- That is where the FUN is, and that's what I do all the time. Its also the main reason why I am so good at it. I'm not saying I haven't failed. But failing is part of the process of learning, and once you've failed over hundreds of time, you will become good at anything. Thomas Edison once said that he didn't fail 1000 times inventing the light bulb. He just simply found 1000 ways which didn't work.

The point I'm trying to make is, all these are your excuses and opinion. Anything and everything can be done as long as you do it enough times.

What do you mean by "there's no failure in my books".

Yes, I do have to admit to myself that I do have some issues in these circumstances, but I do also honestly believe it can be more difficult when you're alone in several situations (it's only normal that some situations will give you higher chances and some lower chances).

I also find it hard to improve it because, simply, I'm no so interested in meeting new people all the times. After a while you've heard all the stories and you really don't care much about having some shallow talk with some guy with poor language skills that you'll never see again -and don't even care about seeing again-.

 

[Light]

Re: Solo 'n sober: can you be as social as if in group 'n ti

What do you mean by "there's no failure in my books".

It means I don't dive in with a single thought of even failing, because I don't plan to fail.
I know if I want to socialise with anyone, given any circumstances, I can do it.

Tip: You need to be Relatable.

I also find it hard to improve it because, simply, I'm no so interested in meeting new people all the times. After a while you've heard all the stories and you really don't care much about having some shallow talk with some guy with poor language skills that you'll never see again -and don't even care about seeing again-.

That is your main problem. It has nothing to do with difficulty or not. You just simply don't want to, hence you won't.
My advice? Don't even bother.