Stalemate problem with all my dates and matches, solutions?

[JusSayin]

I've tried practising "ball is in her court" approach and it is working out terribly so far.

Some examples (rough translations):

**1.girl** Tried to arrange second date with a girl I saw once (I reached out after a week, no extra texting), a bit of banter and she said:

"about meeting this week idk, maybe sunday"

Since most "puas" said we don't accept "maybes" I replied

"Sunday we can on 18:00. However, if youre not sure you can make it we can do it another time when your schedule is more clear. Let me know "

"Another evening would suit better, because I had planned to see my girlfriends that day and won't be free so soon"

I replied: "Sacred thing, and sure, we can do it another time. If anything changes, let me know"

GHOSTED FOREVER

**2.girl** Reached out 4 days after first date with "Hey, I hope you didn't get cold in the end" (we got in heavy rain)

"No, all good, my immunity saved me "

Then I sent voice note saying: "Well, it was nice meeting you and we should definitely meet again. Check your schedule, let me know when you're free and we'll make something happen"

She gave it a heart like and never heard from her again.

**3.girl** this girl we met on Saturday and then she hit me up on Sunday because she was in town and I thought she wants to have sex, so I met her on Sunday, too, got her over to my house, but she had to leave for her city soon after and we only got to have coffee and flirt a bit. Everything moved quite fast.

Messaged her about 3-4 days later.

"Hey, how is my favorite equestrian doin"

"Good"

Voice message from me: "That's quite eloquent"

her: "Have nothing to say "

me: "Understandable, when I'm not around, nothing fun happens"

her: "yeah yeah yeah "

me: "It was cool together... send me days when you plan to be in city and we will meet again"
[left on read]

**4.girl**. This one is from Tinder, but same issue.

Me: "Hey, what does it look like, on which days its better for you? I can only do evenings."

Her: "I won't be able to say now, very messy, not enough time"

Me: "No problem. Send me days which you can do on second half of the week, I'll check with my schedule and we'll make it happen"

[left on read indefinitely]

**5.girl**. Tinder girl

[I initiated after she showed more interst because I stopped messaging as often]

...

Me: "What's your schedule like this weekend"

Her: "Maybe I will have some free time on sunday "

Me: "Sunday evening is good. If you aren't sure if you can make it we can do it another time. If you can definitely do Sunday, then let's meet at 18:00. Let me know "

I've slept with over 10 women in my lifetime and I'm not completely clueless. I can get dates pretty easily, but usually I get very bad response (ghosting, disinterest) after first date. I have no idea why, I tried correcting for errors, I've also gotten some women to do ONS with me. What I did wrong previously was contacting the girls too soon (that same evening) or trying to organize the next date on the first one (removing mystery). Right now I'm trying Corey's approach, but as you see it is clearly not working. When you "leave ball in her court" it just remains there indefinitely. Before when I double-texted at times or was more persistant, I at least got more dates and sometimes more sex from this. So what's the problem and how to correct this?

I also try to contact in evenings and don't respond immediately.

I feel like these women are all burned, since it's been a week and they all left me on read.

1. What ways are there to send non-needy text (double texting) to reengage?

2. What ways are there to modify my approach for future to increase odds of successful conversion?

 

[Chase]

@JusSayin,

Welcome to the Boards.

First off, your texting could use some work!

These are not “ball in her court” messages. Or at least not the type I teach (i.e., a type that I can say is actually effective). See these to better understand BiHC texts:

When to Throw the Ball into Her Court (and When Not To)

“The ball’s in your court.” You either love uttering that line, or you never utter it. It’s a truly liberating line when you’re using it right – some girl you think likes you, or you think might like you, but who is being coy or difficult about coming out... you’re just going to fire that text...

www.girlschase.com

Tactics Tuesdays: Who Should Use a BIHC Text?

The ball-in-her-court text can be very effective at getting flaky girls onto dates. It’s also easy to misuse, however… and even sabotage your attractiveness with. Recently on the forum we had a relatively new member claiming the ball-in-her-court text “doesn’t work” for him, and that women can...

www.girlschase.com

https://www.amazon.com/How-Text-Girl-Girls-Guides/dp/B07ZRP1DXC/

More tactically…

"about meeting this week idk, maybe sunday"

Since most "puas" said we don't accept "maybes" I replied

"Sunday we can on 18:00. However, if youre not sure you can make it we can do it another time when your schedule is more clear. Let me know "

"Another evening would suit better, because I had planned to see my girlfriends that day and won't be free so soon"

I replied: "Sacred thing, and sure, we can do it another time. If anything changes, let me know"

Feedback:

1. When she says "maybe I can do day X, idk" you don't propose a time on day X and hope she decides she's free. Instead you just say "Yeah sure. If you can do then, LMK by (2 days before day X) & we'll plan something out." Then if you don't hear back, she's either very busy or not very interested, and you need to try something else.
   
   
2. "We can do it another time if anything changes let me know" is not BiHC. It is a totally accommodating message that lacks any sense of you as a valuable man (something a good BiHC text builds into it) and also lacks any clear instruction for her to follow (another aspect of a BiHC text). If you're not sure how to respond to girls flaking on you, see this article or pick up my texting book.

GHOSTED FOREVER

**2.girl** Reached out 4 days after first date with "Hey, I hope you didn't get cold in the end" (we got in heavy rain)

If you're not reaching out to her until four days after a date, there's an excellent chance she's already decided you weren't very interested and has mentally moved on.

Unless there's just zero chemistry (in which case you can wait 2-3 days and hope she's forgotten how little chemistry there was), you want to make it 1-2 days normally.

Then I sent voice note saying: "Well, it was nice meeting you and we should definitely meet again. Check your schedule, let me know when you're free and we'll make something happen"

She gave it a heart like and never heard from her again.

1. This is not the kind of message you want to send. It doesn't frame you as valuable, it doesn't communicate any personal knowledge of her, it doesn't make her feel like there is anything special going on. It is just a bland "hey had a good time if you wanna do it again sometime LMK" message. See this article on writing actually solid texts to girls that hit the right notes.
   
   
2. You never, never, never want to tell a girl to just message you when she's free again and leave it on her unless a.) you are actually writing a proper BiHC text (this isn't, at all) that she has EARNED by flakiness (this girl hasn't; she had a good date with you! Why would you BiHC her???), or b.) you simply do not care to ever see her again.

If I ever got a bland message like this from a girl four days after a date, I would assume she was just being polite and wasn't interested at all, and I wouldn't even bother following up unless she was just absolutely SMOKING hot and I wanted it reeeall bad. I'd busy myself with better prospects instead.

Women are even less likely to message back unless given clear instructions with a clear reason why they should be the ones messaging (i.e., they have already wasted your time by flaking thrice), so this goes double for chicks.

In other words... you think she ghosted you.

But I guarantee you SHE feels YOU ghosted HER!

**3.girl** this girl we met on Saturday and then she hit me up on Sunday because she was in town and I thought she wants to have sex, so I met her on Sunday, too, got her over to my house, but she had to leave for her city soon after and we only got to have coffee and flirt a bit. Everything moved quite fast.

Messaged her about 3-4 days later.

"Hey, how is my favorite equestrian doin"

"Good"

Voice message from me: "That's quite eloquent"

her: "Have nothing to say "

me: "Understandable, when I'm not around, nothing fun happens"

her: "yeah yeah yeah "

me: "It was cool together... send me days when you plan to be in city and we will meet again"
[left on read]

The texting was fine until the attempt to schedule a meetup.

She wasn't super compliant, but your banter was funny and she was at least moderately compliant.

But then you jumped from "light flirty banter" to "send me days when you're traveling back here again" (which odds are she doesn't even know yet... doesn't have planned out yet... or isn't intrigued enough to bother looking up & sending you dates and setting plans with you for a week out or two weeks out or however long it is).

Again, you need to be following proper texting format for scheduling meetups. See those articles I linked or the book.

**4.girl**. This one is from Tinder, but same issue.

Me: "Hey, what does it look like, on which days its better for you? I can only do evenings."

Her: "I won't be able to say now, very messy, not enough time"

Me: "No problem. Send me days which you can do on second half of the week, I'll check with my schedule and we'll make it happen"

[left on read indefinitely]

She's not hooked enough to be giving her that kind of instruction.

You shouldn't be telling her the demands of your schedule until you get her schedule first. Schedule check her first, then go from there.

If she's telling you she doesn't have enough time to meet you, she is NOT going to comply with a BiHC text if you just met and she's not at this point where she's reasonably hooked in (enough to have set 3 firm dates with you then flaked on them, or dodged date setup attempts on 3 different occasions spread across time).

She rejected the date here because she's not hooked enough. That means you need to build more attraction first. Giving a compliance demand ("tell me your schedule") to a girl who's not hooked is most of the time going to get you ghosted, yes.

How do you build more attraction over distance? Audio messages, video messages, bonding phone calls, all work. Some guys like text message bantering... that can work as well if you're good at it. You need a lot more of it than you have here though, and you need to hit a number of notes in it you did not hit.

**5.girl**. Tinder girl

[I initiated after she showed more interst because I stopped messaging as often]

...

Me: "What's your schedule like this weekend"

Her: "Maybe I will have some free time on sunday "

Me: "Sunday evening is good. If you aren't sure if you can make it we can do it another time. If you can definitely do Sunday, then let's meet at 18:00. Let me know "

Jumping the gun. She sent a short, concise message with a "maybe I'll be free this day", and you responded with a whole itinerary and a message 3x as long as hers.

Here's how it should've gone:

YOU: What's your schedule like this weekend?​

​

HER: Maybe I will have some free time on sunday ​

​

YOU: Perfecto. When are we talking here... morning, noon, or night?​

​

HER: Some time after 3 PM I might be able to do ​

​

YOU: Excellent. 6 PM work? I know a groovy little café with bomb-ass decor.​

​

HER: 6 works!​

​

YOU: Nice. Let's meet at 3rd and Aspen by the Zara's. We can walk from there.​

​

HER: Okay!​

​

YOU: Groovy. See you then ​

Doesn't that feel so much better and more natural?

Instead of try to rush to cram everything into a single message when she isn't ready for it yet, you break it up into steps: get her to say when she's free, then specify more, then specify more, until you nail down the date, time, and place.

I've slept with over 10 women in my lifetime and I'm not completely clueless. I can get dates pretty easily, but usually I get very bad response (ghosting, disinterest) after first date. I have no idea why, I tried correcting for errors, I've also gotten some women to do ONS with me. What I did wrong previously was contacting the girls too soon (that same evening) or trying to organize the next date on the first one (removing mystery). Right now I'm trying Corey's approach, but as you see it is clearly not working. When you "leave ball in her court" it just remains there indefinitely. Before when I double-texted at times or was more persistant, I at least got more dates and sometimes more sex from this. So what's the problem and how to correct this?

I also try to contact in evenings and don't respond immediately.

I feel like these women are all burned, since it's been a week and they all left me on read.

1. What ways are there to send non-needy text (double texting) to reengage?

2. What ways are there to modify my approach for future to increase odds of successful conversion?

I don't know what Corey's approach is (I'm assuming Corey Wayne?) and I don't know what he's teaching in terms of "ball in her court." It sounds like he adopted my ball-in-her-court message, but either isn't teaching it right or you didn't understand it properly? Anyway, none of the situations I saw here from you warrant a BiHC text, and it's not being structured properly in any event. I would say you should leave this one alone at your level of text game for now:

Tactics Tuesdays: Who Should Use a BIHC Text?

The ball-in-her-court text can be very effective at getting flaky girls onto dates. It’s also easy to misuse, however… and even sabotage your attractiveness with. Recently on the forum we had a relatively new member claiming the ball-in-her-court text “doesn’t work” for him, and that women can...

www.girlschase.com

You can come back to it later when you're a stronger texter.

I'd really recommend picking up my book and reading through it. The biggest thing I see here is you missing a lot of basic understanding about texting philosophy. Before you can get the texting tactics right, you need to understand what you're doing and what you're trying to accomplish with texts:

https://www.amazon.com/How-Text-Girl-Girls-Guides/dp/B07ZRP1DXC/

It's not hard once you get the main principles down. You just need to learn to communicate properly over this (rather weird) medium of short little written messages!

Cheers,
Chase

 

[JusSayin]

Thanks for detailed response and actually taking time to read through it and reply to each point.

When she says "maybe I can do day X, idk" you don't propose a time on day X and hope she decides she's free. Instead you just say "Yeah sure. If you can do then, LMK by (2 days before day X) & we'll plan something out." Then if you don't hear back, she's either very busy or not very interested, and you need to try something else.

Good point. But I tried this as well and they never got back. I feel like leaving ball in her court doesn't work well with maybe girls in 2023, they have too many options. Maybe you have to reengage later but in a clever way?

1. You never, never, never want to tell a girl to just message you when she's free again and leave it on her unless a.) you are actually writing a proper BiHC text (this isn't, at all) that she has EARNED by flakiness (this girl hasn't; she had a good date with you! Why would you BiHC her???), or b.) you simply do not care to ever see her again.

I got this advice from Corey Wayne. He stands by it. But maybe its suboptimal in 2023?

If you're not reaching out to her until four days after a date, there's an excellent chance she's already decided you weren't very interested and has mentally moved on.

I followed Corey's advice. Maybe he isn't suited best for zoomers.

If I ever got a bland message like this from a girl four days after a date, I would assume she was just being polite and wasn't interested at all, and I wouldn't even bother following up unless she was just absolutely SMOKING hot and I wanted it reeeall bad. I'd busy myself with better prospects instead.

Women are even less likely to message back unless given clear instructions with a clear reason why they should be the ones messaging (i.e., they have already wasted your time by flaking thrice), so this goes double for chicks.

In other words... you think she ghosted you.

But I guarantee you SHE feels YOU ghosted HER!

Hnm, very interesting perspective. My voice message carried the idea of "check your schedule and we will plan a date", because I didn't want to propose a specific day. If she is busy on that day then I had to propose another and that boxes me in. So when I say "check your schedule", I want to know which days she is available ,so I can figure out which days we can see each other on. How to reengage with this girl in most optimal way?

The texting was fine until the attempt to schedule a meetup.

She wasn't super compliant, but your banter was funny and she was at least moderately compliant.

But then you jumped from "light flirty banter" to "send me days when you're traveling back here again" (which odds are she doesn't even know yet... doesn't have planned out yet... or isn't intrigued enough to bother looking up & sending you dates and setting plans with you for a week out or two weeks out or however long it is).

Again, you need to be following proper texting format for scheduling meetups. See those articles I linked or the book.

Still a bit confused about this one. How would you have handled the banter -> meetup with equestrian better?

She's not hooked enough to be giving her that kind of instruction.

You shouldn't be telling her the demands of your schedule until you get her schedule first. Schedule check her first, then go from there.

If she's telling you she doesn't have enough time to meet you, she is NOT going to comply with a BiHC text if you just met and she's not at this point where she's reasonably hooked in (enough to have set 3 firm dates with you then flaked on them, or dodged date setup attempts on 3 different occasions spread across time).

She rejected the date here because she's not hooked enough. That means you need to build more attraction first. Giving a compliance demand ("tell me your schedule") to a girl who's not hooked is most of the time going to get you ghosted, yes.

How do you build more attraction over distance? Audio messages, video messages, bonding phone calls, all work. Some guys like text message bantering... that can work as well if you're good at it. You need a lot more of it than you have here though, and you need to hit a number of notes in it you did not hit.

I know I ask a lot with this. Would it be a problem to show me an example of how you would have handled this better? So I know what to follow next time.

Jumping the gun. She sent a short, concise message with a "maybe I'll be free this day", and you responded with a whole itinerary and a message 3x as long as hers.

Here's how it should've gone:

YOU: What's your schedule like this weekend?HER: Maybe I will have some free time on sunday YOU: Perfecto. When are we talking here... morning, noon, or night?HER: Some time after 3 PM I might be able to do YOU: Excellent. 6 PM work? I know a groovy little café with bomb-ass decor.HER: 6 works!YOU: Nice. Let's meet at 3rd and Aspen by the Zara's. We can walk from there.HER: Okay!YOU: Groovy. See you then
Doesn't that feel so much better and more natural?

Instead of try to rush to cram everything into a single message when she isn't ready for it yet, you break it up into steps: get her to say when she's free, then specify more, then specify more, until you nail down the date, time, and place.

This is REALLY GOOD example. Thanks!!! How do I reengage after my failed message?


My target range is 18-22 yo girls. What is most optimal time to reach out after date in 2023? You say 2-3 days. Possibly. I will try 2-3 days next time.


Now tell me - how do I reengage with these girls that left me on read and didn't respond? How long do I wait to reengage? If they are maybe girls, then there must be more optimal and less optimal messages within more optimal and less optimal timeframes to increase the odds of a positive response and second date. My main goal is to figure out these messages as so far this has been my main sticking point.

 

[Chase]

Hey man,

Thanks for detailed response and actually taking time to read through it and reply to each point.

You're welcome!

Good point. But I tried this as well and they never got back. I feel like leaving ball in her court doesn't work well with maybe girls in 2023, they have too many options. Maybe you have to reengage later but in a clever way?


I got this advice from Corey Wayne. He stands by it. But maybe its suboptimal in 2023?

I followed Corey's advice. Maybe he isn't suited best for zoomers.

I don't know why Corey Wayne is calling that a "ball in her court message."

My guess is he misunderstood the technique. But anyway, while technically that is "throwing the ball in her court", it doesn't contain any of the elements in it that would actually make the girl respond back.

Just telling a girl to let you know when she's free isn't good game for any generation of girl or guy, unless the girl is already extremely hooked in.

I talked to a guy who went through Corey's stuff and he said it's good for girls who are already way into you. So that may be the problem you're having here... you're using simpler stuff more geared toward girls who're already strongly hooked -- but these girls you're talking to are not strongly hooked.

Hnm, very interesting perspective. My voice message carried the idea of "check your schedule and we will plan a date", because I didn't want to propose a specific day. If she is busy on that day then I had to propose another and that boxes me in. So when I say "check your schedule", I want to know which days she is available ,so I can figure out which days we can see each other on. How to reengage with this girl in most optimal way?

You're not understanding what I said here, man. Did you read the articles I linked?

Asking a girl her schedule is what you SHOULD be doing, yes. You'll have a much higher hit rate with that then proposing a date that she then is busy on.

However, you are NOT doing the other things you should be doing, that would actually get her to give you her schedule and work to set a date with you.

When you fail to write solid messages, the only girls you can get are ones who are already extremely hooked. Girls who just like you a little bit or are on the fence you'll lose.

Read the articles I linked you or my book for how you should be structuring messages you're sending to get dates.

Still a bit confused about this one. How would you have handled the banter -> meetup with equestrian better?

I know I ask a lot with this. Would it be a problem to show me an example of how you would have handled this better? So I know what to follow next time.

She's not compliant enough to be asking out after just a "yeah yeah." So you need to banter more.

I'm not able to type out a 20-minute banter + breakdown example right now (time shortness). I go into banter a lot in my Impulse Texting course, but that's not going to be available again for a few more months. I have an article you can check out here that will give you some pointers.

Basic rundown I would give you though -- you need to stretch the banter out longer here and get her actually talking about her day / week / trying to build rapport with you before you go for the date.

That can be with texting, video messages, audio messages, etc.

This is REALLY GOOD example. Thanks!!! How do I reengage after my failed message?

I'd use a video message to rebuild attraction again.

Then use a proper "scheduler" text to set up a date after that (see my texting articles or book).

My target range is 18-22 yo girls. What is most optimal time to reach out after date in 2023? You say 2-3 days. Possibly. I will try 2-3 days next time.

Depends how good the date is. Here's my advice on when to schedule a next date:

How Soon to See Her Again (After a Previous Date)

When should you plan your next date with her for? It depends on a few “next date determiners”, including her eagerness, both your busyness, and more. How soon should you see a girl again after the date you just had? Should it be the next day, a few days later, a week, or more? Timing for your...

www.girlschase.com

Based on when that date should be, you'll have to start texting her with enough lead time to make it into that window.

If she's very eager you may want to be texting her the next morning... for instance.

Now tell me - how do I reengage with these girls that left me on read and didn't respond? How long do I wait to reengage? If they are maybe girls, then there must be more optimal and less optimal messages within more optimal and less optimal timeframes to increase the odds of a positive response and second date. My main goal is to figure out these messages as so far this has been my main sticking point.

Not sure how long it's been since you last talked to them, but see this article:

Ghosting, Part 3: How to Raise the Dead

Can you turn around a ghost, and get dates or a relationship from your ghost? Oftentimes, yes, you can. How? With these five (5) “ghosting turnaround” strategies. In Part 1 of this series, we looked at some interesting statistics on ghosting that came courtesy a survey we ran on American men and...

www.girlschase.com

If you have my book, look up the chapter on ghosting resurrection texts.

I think it's also in the "14 simple ways to text" article too.

Good luck!

Chase