Steroids and Getting Girls

[Rage]

What’s up guys, thought I’d write a post discussing a fun topic…

Eddie

I have a friend that’s a few years older than me named Eddie who lifts at the gym (I’m 20 and Eddie’s 28). Eddie’s a chill dude, who I look up to a bit because I’ve been lifting for 2 years now, same as Eddie, but Eddie has made way more progress in that time. Eddie used to be skinny like I used to be but in only 2 years he got way buffer, and weighs 200 lbs and can squat 400 lbs and deadlift 500 lbs (really ridiculously great gains for 2 years of training and below average genetics). In 2 years I’ve made significant gains, gaining a little less than 40 lbs over the 2 years and a ton of strength; I’ve made more gains than the average gym goer but not quite at Eddie’s level.

I used to think that Eddie was a natural lifter but found out from him recently that he’s actually not and has been on steroids for the last 6 months.

A recent conversation with him:

Eddie: Ey dude you look bigger

Me: Thanks bro, been eating and training hard and stuff haha

Eddie: Ey you should jump on, jump on that bicycle, get on some tren

Me: I’m down bro let’s do it together (playing along, but not thinking he’s serious)

Eddie: No I’m serious like you should get on

Me: Wait you’re actually on (it suddenly hits me hard why Eddie has gotten to make the ridiculous gains he has in 2 years)

Eddie: Shhh shhh yeah I have been for like the last few months

Me: What seriously what are you on (guys will first never admit what they’re on, and the odd chance that they do, they will never reveal their stack)

Eddie: Test, and tren and masteron, I’m cycling gonna get shredded!!

Me: That’s cool dude… I had thought you were natural dude, you used to be my hero bro (telling him jokingly)

Eddie: Haha dude, get shredded you’ll get so many bitches

Me: Hmm well keep it for me dude, maybe one day… (I don’t tell him no outright, but I don’t have the intention of ever jumping on anything)

I was surprised at first that my friend was on, but subsequently after that it just felt more and more obvious and I felt silly and naïve at not having guessed it in the first place.

Regarding steroids, you can use steroids to get big or to get shredded (i.e. really lean). Genetics plays a big part in steroids and weightlifting. The big guys and the guys with the genetics for it train and get huge and will take steroids to put on even more mass like http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/ ... 478dwu.jpg

The skinny guys like me and eddie, with weight training and with steroids will just look more like a fitness model, more aesthetic look like: http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-a ... 7359_n.jpg . Skinny dudes have the genetics to get lean easily and naturally get cuts and striations in their body while the big dudes naturally get mass.

Regarding Steroids Specifically

Curiosity killed the cat; ever heard someone say that before? The thing with being curious is that, you tend to get curious about everything: good things and bad things, beneficial things and potentially detrimental things.

Curiosity can make you someone who is easily tempted to do things and quite prone to peer pressure and saying “haha fuck it, let’s do it”. It’s something that’s led me to have some fun experiences but led to me to get into trouble and some really risky experiences too.

I’d always known that getting big was never the answer to getting girls, and I knew that I didn’t really want to get big past my natural limits (in my opinion I had felt that for myself a natural body looked good and enhanced wouldn’t look good to me).

But my curiosity, had led me to get really close to jumping on something. For me it was because imagine how much stronger I could get… it would be at a price but imagine, damn I’d get strong as shit…

I researched compounds and the pros and cons and the effects of steroids and what it took and how much it would cost and all of that…

And found that (in my opinion) it’s a tremendous price to pay for some gains and not at all worth it if you’re not doing it for career. You have to pay hundreds that rack up to thousands really quickly, and have your balls shrivel up and risk acne and bacne and losing your hair and getting bitch tits and gyno… and then there are the compounds themselves, you’re injecting some unknown liquid into your body, fake gear is a very big thing and it’s hard to find pharmacy grade steroids that work. You have to get blood work done and your hormones are fucked up and half the time you might cry like a bitch and the other half of the time you’ll get pissed as fuck and angry at some dude just for the way they look at you or talk (much of this was stuff that I’d observed and talked to user friends of mine about, and seen them experience first-hand).

Getting Big to Get Girls

Ask the average gymrat why they started lifting. Why’d you start brah?

They’ll probably tell you it was to get girls.

My reason was similar, my reason was to look better to girls (but I realized, had realized for a long time that getting girls is a process and a skill and that just getting buff or getting a nice body wouldn’t just grant you that skill; you could get better looking but you’d have to get better at the skill of getting girls just like you had to get better at the skill of lifting).

So you get these guys that jump on stuff because they’ll get bigger much faster and they’ll put on their muscle really quickly and they’ll be able to get huge and get girls in that way (and they go through all the problems and side-effects of it ultimately just to get girls; that’s the reason for my friend and for many of them at least)….

And what happens is you see those same guys curling heavy weights and then finishing set and longingly, yearningly looking at me or one of the stripper dudes at the gym chatting up one of the hot girls at the gym (all the guys I know that are or used to be male strippers get a ton of tail lol random thought).

Will girls like you if you get buffer? If you jump on and get huge at a certain point most girls will say you’re too big and too buff and would look good if you lost some muscle. If you stay natural, yes the body you can get can be good and appealing to women.

But an odd sort of thing often happens when you get in shape (well that I’ve seen happen to me at least). You stop wanting girls to like you because of your body and want them to like you for your character and charm and what’s on the inside and stuff.

Hot vs. Beautiful in Bodybuilding

https://www.girlschase.com/content/youre ... lest-girls was a particularly inspired and intriguing recent article of Chase’s. I had a theory upon reading it pretty much that what Chase describes in the article is a phenomenon I’ve seen in bodybuilding too. Some guys will flaunt their bodies (quite often, usually the guys that have jumped on steroids) and will post incessantly about it on Instagram and will always be wearing tank tops and posting shirtless pics and really letting their bodies show.

And what seems to have happened to me is kind of like what happened to the beautiful girl: I got a good body through putting many hours of hard work and eating in, and I wanna hide it. I don’t like flaunting it not at all.

Often I catch myself now trying to not show off my figure much because some part of me doesn’t want girls hooking on to me just for my body (and prefers it be for my game and skill with women). I’ve gone out wearing clothes that don’t compliment my figure too much or are more subtle so that I don’t get that extra attention. And I love it now when I meet a girl and go out with her and she doesn’t even realize that I have a nice body until we sleep together and she gets my shirt off. I prefer that and just really have the urge to get girls with purely my game (it’s weird and odd and amusing that it’s like that but can’t help but feel that way).

Naturally beautiful vs. Makeup Beautiful… how would this translate in bodybuilding? I have theories, nothing more than that, but I’ll expand on them…

Could be being natty vs. enhanced. The guys who took the shortcut and took steroids just to quickly get big seem to be the ones that match the makeup girls (and I realize there are exception guys that took steroids specifically for their sport after training natural for many years; by users I refer to the bulk of guys on gear who did it for fast gains and promised bitches). And the effect is the same, you take the steroids away and the guys will lose their muscle and go back to being where they once were. Take the makeup away from the hot girl and she’s just generic Jenny again.

But maybe there’s something else, maybe it all goes a little deeper. The guys that got their gains through steroids and the girls that got their looks through makeup and fake titties, were insecure, were needy inside and changed their outside to try and fix it.

That’s an insecurity that I never really had, and that the beautiful girls never had. I’ve always felt good to be me, glad to be me. I’ve always felt attractive to girls and that I look fine, content with my looks and gotten attention from girls before I ever learned how to deep dive or manhandle kiss or any of that. Same with the beautiful girl, they have no need to flaunt their bodies because they are gratified and contented and don’t need that validation from Facebook and Instagram and the opposite sex that plastic girls or roided guys need.

And I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately, something very true about life is that insecurity is a battle you conquer on the inside. It would be quite funny to watch a roid user try and explain to someone “oh no I’m not insecure, see I take these injections and have to get bloodwork done and take these estrogen blockers” and together they fix the crippling insecurity that I once had.

Nothing on the outside fixes the inside. Trying to better yourself on the inside by fixing the outside is like trying to fix a car that won’t start by giving it a paintjob; you have to fix the inside and fix the problem at its root, treat the cause not the symptoms.

You need an inside-out approach to fix the problem: fix your character and your contentment and your values on the inside and then you can be deserving of whatever you choose to get on the outside (similar to how Chase conquered depression by choosing to feel differently, change his mental model and change on the inside).

Fast cars, nice jewelry, breast implants, steroids all these material things exist in the world... stuff that people feel that they need to feel better about themselves.

I’ve heard it explained this way somewhere before: make up the problem and then you can sell the cure: here, take these steroids, buy this TV or this fancy car and you won’t feel empty inside anymore.

One thing that I’ll close with it is that seduction works the same way. If you change yourself on the inside make yourself a man of better character, more empathetic and courageous and caring and all that, then you can become great with women. Make yourself a worthy man on the inside and you can become a man who connects with and has a powerful impact on the lives of many women in that way.

Hope I got my points across at least half-decent and that some of you got something out of it

-Gem

 

[Big Daddy]

This guy says in video way, way better what I would say about this subject in text (which is somewhat the same thing that you said):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWZy_DeGwx8

 

[Raqimus]

This was really insightful to read, really interesting because I would like to be bigger but I'm still rather skinny and I though about steroids decided against it and your post has helped me understand the mindset and difference between the two. On a side note for getting bigger as a naturaly skinny guy if you don't mind me asking.

 

[Rage]

Ooh haha I had forgotten about this thread; would be glad to give a few thoughts

This was really insightful to read, really interesting because I would like to be bigger but I'm still rather skinny and I though about steroids decided against it and your post has helped me understand the mindset and difference between the two.

One important distinction that I probably should have included is that steroids vs. natty does not necessarily have direct correlation to insecure vs. not insecure.

i.e. I have natural friends who are quite insecure who might’ve decided that they don’t wanna take steroids for whatever reason (could be cost or health effects etc. whatever their reasons may be) but still train and obsess about their health to the point where their sanity almost depends on it and if they stopped working out they would instantly feel worthless.

Similarly I have friends who just like the effects of being on steroids and are cool with the side effects and just prefer the blown up traps and 3d shoulders and stuff. They might stop working out for two months and then come back and begin again and hop on cycle again and not really give a shit about it or have it affect them mentally.

My point specifically is that it’s imprudent to try to fix a lacking on the inside of you by fixing the outside… and this applies to lifting, whether you are natural or enhanced; I may have noticed more insecure guys on steroids than natural but it’s certainly not an absolute rule that users will be insecure and naturals will not (there are plenty of insecure naturals, and content users out there to go against that).

Getting Bigger As a Skinny Guy

Honestly there’s a ton of things to be said; it’s like asking someone on this site how can I get good with girls?

It’s a general question that you ask and there’s a ton that could be said to answer it; I’ll share a couple of links and then give you some tips that have specifically helped me out.

Links

http://www.livestrong.com/article/18010 ... ectomorph/ a link with some thoughts on gaining muscle as an ectomorph

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UehSdi5 ... CNKl32f4cQ a guy with practical advice who trains as a bodybuilder and gives thoughts on gaining; he’s a skinny ectomorph body type himself

http://www.amazon.com/Starting-Strength ... 0982522738 this is the book that everyone recommends to someone wanting to start out lifting and building some muscle; it’s good from what I’ve heard although I personally haven’t read it myself

http://azizshavershian.net/downloads/Zy ... -Bible.pdf this was the book on lifting I had read and had a lot of good tips in it (and it’s free too); although I’d learned a lot from reading articles and watching youtube videos, I never read a ton of books on fitness and most of what I’d learned had been practically, going out and training with other guys in the game longer than me

My Tips

All the main process and steps to follow are in the last link (and the other links too that I gave you); that book gave me a good foundation and place to start.

I’ll include some other tips now about specific stuff that helped me out:

• First off you should know and determine that you are a true ectomorph: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Q84cem13blo/U ... 4019_n.jpg ; if you are, it’s harder for your body type to put on muscle than the other two body types, but still very doable.

• Eat a lot and eat clean (healthy whole foods and not fast food/processed food)… oh and it’s a good idea to get a mass gainer protein powder. Gainers help to get in all the protein and calories you need and were made specifically for skinny guys looking to build muscle… also you need to train heavy with weights to accelerate your appetite. If you don’t train hard and often, you won’t be able to bring yourself to eat as much as you need to, and it will take a lot of eating to build muscle on your body.

• Train hard and heavy… as ectomorph you have to train harder and eat more than other body types do to gain weight… your body is designed to be leaner so it really is an uphill battle gaining that weight.

I say train heavy with intensity specifically because ectomorphs need the heavy weight to drive the body to adapt to lifting and growing. You’ll see a lot of the bigger guys and mesomorphs and endomorphs do less weight and gain mass, but ectomorphs need to specifically push heavy weight to grow (especially when starting out).

• Do compound lifts and train legs hard; you hold your testosterone in your legs and training them will make you grow… compound movements help you to grow as well, and the squat and deadlift will be critical especially for you getting stronger and building a strong foundation.

• Train with friends, preferably with friends that have been lifting 6 months to a year and aren’t too far ahead of you. Training with friends will help you to come regularly and get in to the habit of lifting. It will also help cut a lot off of your learning curve and will teach you form and finding a workout split that works well for you.

• Meet other guys in the gym occasionally and find out what they are doing (and just make friends and stuff).. there’s a lot to be learned from other dudes at the gym and even the biggest dudes are usually friendly; you can ask guys in the gym for thoughts and advice and you will be able to hear new ideas and helpful hints and tips from them.

• Don't do cardio; any intense aerobic exercises like running and stuff will work against you trying to gain weight...

Those are some points of mine, hope I gave you some good ideas to at least get started

-Gem

 

[BarryS1]

Awesome post about getting bigger as a skinny guy Gem! I'm skinny myself, but after power eating clean food went from 150-170lbs. in three months. It works!

 

[Rage]

Awesome post about getting bigger as a skinny guy Gem! I'm skinny myself, but after power eating clean food went from 150-170lbs. in three months. It works!

Barry that's awesome! You’ve gotten through the hardest part, that first 12 weeks is a grind getting that consistency down, going to the gym regularly and stuff.

Thought I’d include one last thing, sort of something to look forward to for future years of lifting:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle ... ntial.html

http://www.weightrainer.net/bodypred.html

There is a thing called genetic potential which is basically the maximum amount of muscle that you can gain naturally through putting in years of training and eating right and all that stuff.

-The first link looks at genetic potential and how much muscle you can look to gain each year as you train.

- Second link lets you calculate your own genetic potential weight and measurements.

It ends up being like seduction and how Chase describes that most guys will get a little better but won’t have the ultimate goal of getting to an elite level of mastery.

Maybe you decide you only wanna gain 20 or 30 lbs of muscle and that’s fine; personally I love that I started so skinny because even getting bigger I never look really stupidly huge. I’ve gained 40 lbs so far and have roughly another 20 or so left to reach my genetic potential (which I can realistically get to in another 3-5 years).

Anddddd once you reach that genetic potential you can keep it fairly easily; maintaining is much easier than gaining.

You can get to any previous muscular prime of yours by consistent training for 16 weeks (no matter how much time you take off); and for whatever weight you are, you need that many calories to maintain muscular weight (for example if I weighed 190 lbs, it would only require me 1900 calories a day to maintain that, which to contrast would take more than double that to keep putting on size).

Worth the journey and worth the hard work and all the blood/sweat/tears... in my opinion at least

 

[Raqimus]

Wow amazing, thanks for all the info gonna do body weight exercises until I find a gym and can put the weight to use. Thanks man :,D

 

[Big Daddy]

Gem,

I'm an ectomorph myself and I can tell that that formula is off for people like us. Casey Butt (whose calculator you liked above) wrote a book in which he provided a second formula for ectomorphs (instead of a meso bodybuilder). Using that second formula, my max weight sits at around ~175 lbs for 8% body fat, whereas using that calculator it'd be an absurd ~195 lbs. I'm almost 6ft for reference.

Check you this link where he discusses ectos in-depth: http://www.weightrainer.net/plateau.html

I noticed that I can mysteriously lift way more weight than it would be proportional for a guy my size and that people that lift as much as I lift are way bigger, so that "train heavy" advice is spot on. You just have to lift motherfucking more whatever you are lifting now if you wanna grow. No other way around it.

Barry,

Mother of fucking god. Did you take weight gainers as well during that time? There's no fucking way my body would put that much weight in that time frame. Also, you started working out at 150 lbs?

 

[Rage]

This was really insightful to read, really interesting because I would like to be bigger but I'm still rather skinny and I though about steroids decided against it and your post has helped me understand the mindset and difference between the two. On a side note for getting bigger as a naturaly skinny guy if you don't mind me asking.

Hey Raquimus, it’ll be good for you to do bodyweight exercises (will help you stay lean and get stronger with your own bodyweight)… but make sure you know that you won’t really put on any mass with bodyweight exercises (particularly with skinny-guy genetics) and that you’ll only be able to put on size by training progressive overload with weights.

In addition, while you do your body weight exercises, don’t try to bulk by eating a lot of calories. Since you won’t be pushing any extra weight other than your own body weight, if you force-feed yourself to eat a surplus you will really only gain fat.

Bodyweight training is great, and once you get to doing weights you should still continue to incorporate bodyweight training alongside your weights… my warnings are from experience though; I’ve lifted since august 2 years ago and the 2 years prior to that I would regularly do pushups and pullups but learned that even doing 100 pullups and 100 pushups regularly, I couldn’t put on any muscle weight and that when I would eat at a caloric surplus I would get fatter but again not have it go to my muscle; that only comes with the weights.

I'm an ectomorph myself and I can tell that that formula is off for people like us. Casey Butt (whose calculator you liked above) wrote a book in which he provided a second formula for ectomorphs (instead of a meso bodybuilder). Using that second formula, my max weight sits at around ~175 lbs for 8% body fat, whereas using that calculator it'd be an absurd ~195 lbs. I'm almost 6ft for reference.

Hey Big Daddy, yeah I’d be willing to believe what you say quite honestly (and thanks for the link, it seems more accurate, you’re right)… I’ve been training almost exactly 2 years, started at 120 lbs (5’9 height) and now weigh 160 lbs (with a touch bit more fat, like a pound or two but quite lean enough to have abs). It’s been extremely difficult though to gain the last few pounds that I have and it feels like it wouldn’t be possible for me to end up more than like a lean 170-something pound guy.

Anecdotally, I’ve met a couple of experienced lifters with almost exactly my genetic type frame (like guys my height and with similar limb lengths and wrist ankle measurements and all that) and the heaviest guy was less than 180…. And these were guys who had lifted 6 plus years… so I don’t wanna say it’s impossible, just that we’ll see and I’m cool getting however much more lean mass I have the potential to.

I noticed that I can mysteriously lift way more weight than it would be proportional for a guy my size and that people that lift as much as I lift are way bigger, so that "train heavy" advice is spot on. You just have to lift motherfucking more whatever you are lifting now if you wanna grow. No other way around it.

Yeah quite true, same for me man… I learned it some months into lifting that while I had so far to go in my lifting career and so much more potential and all… your body shape/frame and what you will look like is determined by genetics... guys that are my height who lift and are mesomorphic or endomorphic will nearly always be much heavier than me because the genetics factor in.

But strength is something I have no trouble with, and a lot of strength is up in your head and strengthening neuromuscular responses…I like to powerlift (alongside lifting for looks and functional movements like calisthenics), and seeing natural guys with shit skinny genetics like mine deadlift 550-600 lbs and squat past 4 plates makes me eager to get way stronger and eager for just what the future may hold for me

 

[Big Daddy]

Check you this link (...)

Oops, meant "check out."

Yeah, I just got my mindset VERY into progressive overload recently. I thought that I was progressing just because I was recording my workouts, but now I do it in a way that makes very easy to focus a little bit more on every session. I wasn't eating enough and blamed my plateaus for it, but realized that fuck it. Your chest is gonna look motherfucking awesome when you incline bench 300 lbs for 6. I kept worrying about my weight and realized that I should worry about how much stress my muscle needs to GROW, motherfucker. The moment my bench doesn't go up anymore, then I double my caloric intake. Problem solved.

Bodyweight training is great, and once you get to doing weights you should still continue to incorporate bodyweight training alongside your weights… my warnings are from experience though; I’ve lifted since august 2 years ago and the 2 years prior to that I would regularly do pushups and pullups but learned that even doing 100 pullups and 100 pushups regularly, I couldn’t put on any muscle weight and that when I would eat at a caloric surplus I would get fatter but again not have it go to my muscle; that only comes with the weights.

Yeah, Raquimus, I'd recommend searching Bar Brothers on Youtube. If you want to go into bodyweight training you should keep in mind that you have to increase the stress on the muscle over time (and doing 100 reps is not increasing the stress in a way that makes muscle grow. They should focus on stressing the muscle on powerful movement, so that they focus on the type of muscle fiber that have the most potential to grow. If lifting weights, a good metric is straying in the 5-10 rep range, but other metrics must be applied in bodyweight training), and the BEST way to do that with bodyweight training is decreasing the speed of the movement to take out the momentum out of the equation. The dudes on BB do pullups repetitions that lasts 2 motherfucking minutes, do isometric holds, jump from bar to bar, human flags, pullups with a girl hugging them and all kind of shit to increase the stress. Being able to do hundreds of pushups ain't gonna do it. I really can't relate to getting fat no matter what, so I can't really say what would happen to me if I ate 4500 kcal a day doing only bodyweight training.

 

[Anonymous]

Gem,

I'm an ectomorph myself and I can tell that that formula is off for people like us. Casey Butt (whose calculator you liked above) wrote a book in which he provided a second formula for ectomorphs (instead of a meso bodybuilder). Using that second formula, my max weight sits at around ~175 lbs for 8% body fat, whereas using that calculator it'd be an absurd ~195 lbs. I'm almost 6ft for reference.

Check you this link where he discusses ectos in-depth: http://www.weightrainer.net/plateau.html

As a very skinny guy (5' 11" 130 lbs) who's only started weight training recently, I just realized that according to this calculation, having one of the smallest wrist circumferences for a guy (5.6" and 5.9" for each wrist) mean that the best I could hope for is a plateau at 12.5" biceps and 10" forearms (at <10% bodyfat), and that's assuming I train harder than most people for the next few years. (My forearms are already 9.5" without training)

Although I've learned to accept the reality that there's probably not much I can do about it, it's still discouraging to learn that with all the effort put in, I will still end up looking skinnier (for my height) than most average guys who probably don't even train much.

I'd love to hear if you guys have any thoughts/opinions about this.

 

[BarryS1]

Barry,

Mother of fucking god. Did you take weight gainers as well during that time? There's no fucking way my body would put that much weight in that time frame. Also, you started working out at 150 lbs?

Hey BigDaddy, I used a couple supplements suggested from GoodLookingLoser to increase my testosterone:

http://www.gll-getalife.com/get-ripped/entry/mainstream-and-non-mainstream-ways-to-optimize-your-testosterone-levels

I used weight gainer protein as well, to keep the fats down.

I started working out 6 yrs. ago, but never got anywhere besides increasing strength. In April, I started researching more, tracking calories with myfitnesspal app, ate 3.5-4k calories/day, and switched up my workout routine. I am only 5'8'' and an ectomorph (my wrists are 5'' circumference - that's like dainty victorian-era girl small). You can definitely do it.

 

[Raqimus]

Okay so if I wanted to gain using body weight I'd have to increase the weight or strain. Ok sounds cool, I was mainly using body weight to maintain some level of fitness for when I start hitting the gym which is Friday and I'm Fuckin pumped. Thanks for the info Gem n Big Daddy :,D

 

[Big Daddy]

As a very skinny guy (5' 11" 130 lbs) who's only started weight training recently, I just realized that according to this calculation, having one of the smallest wrist circumferences for a guy (5.6" and 5.9" for each wrist) mean that the best I could hope for is a plateau at 12.5" biceps and 10" forearms (at <10% bodyfat), and that's assuming I train harder than most people for the next few years. (My forearms are already 9.5" without training)

Although I've learned to accept the reality that there's probably not much I can do about it, it's still discouraging to learn that with all the effort put in, I will still end up looking skinnier (for my height) than most average guys who probably don't even train much.

I'd love to hear if you guys have any thoughts/opinions about this.

That's exactly where I started at, but I have very long limbs and that made me look even skinnier. I have 6.7" wrists, which is somewhat good, but only have 8.45" ankles. My max predicted thigh size would be 22" then, but I doubt that will the case for me. I'll probably end up closer to 23-23.5" because I know that my thighs grow much more and much faster than anything on my body. My calves, however, are non-existent and might plateau at the circumference given by that formula. What I'm trying to say is that they're just predictions and you may end up bigger than them or may not. You might end up bigger biceps than 12.5".

There's only one way to know: if you train motherfucking hard. I'll tell you this: even if you train hard you're gonna look skinnier than most people, right? Well, you'll look even skinnier than guys your height if you do not train hard. Even if no one realizes that you hit the gym by the time you plateau, YOU will know, and you'll go out KNOWING that you're so much better than you used to be and that will be sufficient for you to feel good and change your body language completely.

You're seeing things from the wrong perspective: learning what your max size would be should be freeing you from worrying about getting bigger for the rest of your life. You reach those measurements and stop worrying about THAT much about putting size and go focus in other areas of your life.

I started working out 6 yrs. ago, but never got anywhere besides increasing strength. In April, I started researching more, tracking calories with myfitnesspal app, ate 3.5-4k calories/day, and switched up my workout routine. I am only 5'8'' and an ectomorph (my wrists are 5'' circumference - that's like dainty victorian-era girl small). You can definitely do it.

What do you mean increasing strength? You put 100 lbs more to your bench and ended up looking the same?

I tried to maintain a high calorie diet, but unless I was having pizzas and shit I wouldn't reach 4k. You're considering your gainer in those 4k as well?

 

[Rage]

As a very skinny guy (5' 11" 130 lbs) who's only started weight training recently, I just realized that according to this calculation, having one of the smallest wrist circumferences for a guy (5.6" and 5.9" for each wrist) mean that the best I could hope for is a plateau at 12.5" biceps and 10" forearms (at <10% bodyfat), and that's assuming I train harder than most people for the next few years. (My forearms are already 9.5" without training)

Although I've learned to accept the reality that there's probably not much I can do about it, it's still discouraging to learn that with all the effort put in, I will still end up looking skinnier (for my height) than most average guys who probably don't even train much.

I'd love to hear if you guys have any thoughts/opinions about this.

Hey Timo,

Sure I’ve got some thoughts/perspective I could share.

I’m the same actually, personally my arms are my lagging bodypart and I’m skinnier than the average guy who lifts. Bodybuilding is all about illusion however and because your wrists are smaller, smaller sized arms will still look bigger (based off of the wrist to arm ratio). Skinny waist and v taper and skinny wrists are bodybuilding ideals; the genetic freaks of bodybuilding had these traits alongside having good genetics for putting on mass, and freakish muscle insertions (for example frank zane 5.5 inch wrists; Sergio oliva 28 inch waist).

In addition to this you have the option to stay lean or stay bulked and will be bigger looking when bulked (at like 12% bodyfat). I like staying bulked and probably will for a while, because I get to have much more mass when I am bulked (and my bodyfat does not go up too much; and if it does or if you choose to do so, it won’t show much because you’ll still look like you have little bodyfat from the outside).

I could tell you more to reassure you and make you feel better (I had to for myself at some point) but I think it’s more effective to just look at it from a broader perspective. In modern day people are unhappy with their looks all the time; and to fix them they can fix them either artificially or naturally (or both). If a girl’s unhappy with her small tits or her long nose she can go and get a boob job or a nose job… if you’re unhappy with poor eyesight you can eat more carrots and/or eventually go and get eye surgery. I like doing what I can to take care of myself naturally in all parts of my health, and then accept whatever happens after that (so if I’m 70 and can’t deadlift 4 plates anymore I’ll think “cool, it was nice while it lasted”). If you’re not satisfied with being skinny, you can train and make amazing gains and gain 40-50 lbs over the next couple of years (and if that’s not enough you can choose to take steroids and get even bigger than that).

Also I can tell you in bodybuilding that no one is particularly satisfied with themselves from the outset (because if they were, well then there would be no purpose in training in the first place). Endomorphic and mesomorphic friends will tell me “hey fuck you for not having to do cardio dude” and will wish they could get cuts and lines in their muscles like I can. Similarly I would really like it at times if I could put on mass easily like they can.

Everyone will by nature have their genetic strengths and shortcomings and yeah you have to sort of just accept what’s yours is what’s yours and live with it…

And as for having to work harder than everyone else, I think that that’s a plus (in my opinion at least). There has to be struggle for growth, and the more shit you were at something from the beginning and the harder you had to work to achieve your successes the sweeter your successes will tend to be.

Chase alludes to this several times how because he was shit with girls from the beginning and it took him forever to get good, when he did finally get good it was that much more satisfying and worth it.

I feel the same way; I love weight training because it really never does get easier, I’ll have to train harder than most of the guys at the gym and it kicks my ass on a regular basis… but I’ve had to work much harder at it than I have at anything else, and really will continue having to do so for quite some time (if you want to keep making gains it only keeps getting tougher; any time you start getting used to it you can up the weight, or change the routine or do new exercises and it’s incredibly difficult all over again).

I enjoy it that way because it makes me stronger and I get to put that work ethic into everything else that I do.

-Gem

 

[BarryS1]

BarryS1 wrote:
I started working out 6 yrs. ago, but never got anywhere besides increasing strength. In April, I started researching more, tracking calories with myfitnesspal app, ate 3.5-4k calories/day, and switched up my workout routine. I am only 5'8'' and an ectomorph (my wrists are 5'' circumference - that's like dainty victorian-era girl small). You can definitely do it.


What do you mean increasing strength? You put 100 lbs more to your bench and ended up looking the same?

I tried to maintain a high calorie diet, but unless I was having pizzas and shit I wouldn't reach 4k. You're considering your gainer in those 4k as well?

Bigdaddy, I didn't put that much weight on the bench , but aesthetically didn't look different - especially arms. I was curling 50lbs. dumbells for 6 reps, and doing tricep pushdowns 100lbs (machine) for 6 reps. Here's a video that helped me train my arms: http://youtu.be/tww4rVkR6fc.

Richard argues that goes for higher reps gives that "pump" that works the arms better. Richard said that he put 100lbs. on the curl bar, but still looked the same (similar to my experience).

Eating that much made me feel sick the last couple weeks - I'm back to 2.5k now. I put the gainer in the plan as well.