Stuck on escalation windows in dates

[johndoe]

Hi guys,

I'm a frequent reader of GirlsChase and I've recently drove myself to start cold approaching more and pushing for numbers / meet-ups quicker. This aspect has been going well so far - far better than I'd expected. I've gotten numbers that I didn't expect. The problem I'm having is escalating during meet-ups (I'd call them dates, but hey it ain't a date until you kiss the girl or something).

I'm a rather passive guy, and all experience I've had with sexual intimacy has come from girls taking the initiative, disarming my doubts and "closing" me. The tactics you see written in articles like Moving Faster and Handling Objections are tactics that girls have used on me (which is why I totally relate to them). I'm the guy who's usually asking them silly questions like Are You Sure? It might seem like an enviable prospect at first, but this happens really rarely; on hindsight I let go of many girls who were interested in me, but who weren't aggressive enough to push for something to happen with me.

So, recently, I went out with 2 girls who kind of pulled the breaks on my attempts to escalate, and I'm looking for advice on how fellow seducers here would've had handled these objections:

Girl A
We share a class together, and I noticed her from day 1; so I sat near her and started talking to her. She was responsive and laughed quite a bit at the things I say, but also always had something lined up after class so I couldn't hang out with her. By the 3rd or 4th class (it's college, so I see her once a week), I got her to have lunch with me. On hindsight, she seemed to be trying to evade my attempts to get her to have lunch with me (I just assumed her objections were purely logistical, no time to second guess yourself at that time); on the day that we were supposed to have lunch, I actually set it up with her the class prior (free your schedule for me!).

So on that day we were supposed to have lunch, she didn't mention anything about lunch and tried to leave hoping I'd forget the lunch, so I asked her again "You wanna have lunch?" and she flashed a smile (it looked more like a genuine smile than a sheepish, oh-dear-I-got-caught smile) and we headed off for lunch.

She was a little aloof during lunch, so we made small talk (I tried to do Deep Diving, but that takes two hands to clap) and I got exasperated really quickly and just asked her "Are you single?"

She said yes, and I told her I "found her incredibly adorable", to which she looked away and flashed a smile. I asked if she wanted to grab a bite outside of school, and she said yes. We exchange numbers. Then she told me she wasn't looking for a relationship. That's the reason for her aloofness.

To be fair, all I wanted was a fling and I wanted to get intimate as fast as possible. I also thought it was possible because it seemed as though she was attracted but thought that whatever I was going for didn't fit in with what she had in mind. I just didn't set the right frame.

I didn't ask her out afterwards. I'm pretty busy with school and some other things on the side so I didn't think it was worth trying to chase a girl who wasn't completely on board with me. Not that I was bitter with her response; its just hard work chasing someone who isn't completely sold on you. I've tried that before.

So here's my question: what could I have done in this situation to tell her "hey, I'm not looking for a relationship too, but you're so darned cute I just want to sip on your lips all day" and make things happen?

Girl B
This one's short. I saw her while I was out and said "hi" because she was an Asian with blonde hair who looked like a character out of an anime. She was also very attractive. We hit it off and I got her number after 10 minutes or so; then I set up a meeting through text.

Pretty straightforward right? Nope!

We met up at a mall pretty close to my place (it takes her quite awhile to travel there) and I could tell she put in effort to dress up. I told her she looked fantastic and reminded her several times of that as we got takeaways (there was a scenic balcony at the mall) because she was quiet and I thought she was nervous (the compliments were meant to put her at ease). So before we sat down she told me that she was attached, to which I responded "it's alright".

We sat down and made some conversation (and laughter). I touched her lightly throughout. When we hit a conversational high point I grabbed her hand and she freaked out (she gave a face like O_O; it was pretty amusing), saying that she was uncomfortable with that. I smiled and listen to her explain why she was uncomfortable, but man I keep thinking that there was something that I could've done to just blow past this obstacle.

I didn't have an answer to that. The frame was set, so after about 15 to 20 minutes more of talking I cut the meeting short and asked her if she wanted to go. She gave a slightly disappointed "yeah" and I felt bad for making her travel all this way without making anything happen.

Master seducers and expert don juans alike: what could I have done to make something happen?

P.S. I understand that the modus operandi here is kind of to link people who have questions to existing posts on GirlsChase.com, but I'd appreciate if you didn't do that. Firstly, I've already read a lot of posts on the site already and I'd likely have read the links before. Secondly, I learn a lot faster by having people share actual, in-field experiences with me - so you charmers and seducers out there, I really appreciate you sharing your experiences with me. Its not that the GirlsChase posts aren't up to par, but examples help me learn a lot quicker.

 

[Lotus]

Sup Bro,

Sounds like you and I pretty similar, and nice guy that is already pretty social calibrated but just trying to get better with women because we have been programmed by society to be soooo nice? Anyway you correctly ID'd the problem.

Girl A

I just didn't set the right frame.

Luckily there are numerous ways to tweak yourself to set the right frame... a sexual frame! Since you don't want article links, I get to assume you have read all of them.

You already briefly touched on LEADING with the "are you sure?" article, but I just want to re-emphasize that being a leader and not asking those questions is an easy way to help stay away from the BF zone. Change your "should we have lunch? from a question to a statement... "lets get lunch".... just a slight tweak.

Setting a sexual frame can be most easily done with tight fundamentals; strong eye contact, slow speaking, slow moving, sexy smile, confident walk. Everything taught here connects back to them. If you fundamentals aren't in tune with what you are trying to accomplish you won't find consistent results. IE- there's no point learning how to run if you cant even walk.

The great part about fundamentals is, besides slowing your speech, you get to send the message with out opening your mouth. It's all nonverbal. When you are have fundamentals down you will ooze sex making the "framing" problem, less of a problem

Verbally you can set sexual frames within the context of the conversation, but if everything else isn't there you won't appear congruent so it won't matter anyway.

Girl B

So before we sat down she told me that she was attached

Do you mean she has a BF already? or she was attached to you?

When we hit a conversational high point I grabbed her hand and she freaked out

because it was unexpected so you either did it so fast that it scared her(fundamentals) or misread the situation and she wasn't interested. I'm going to assume you read it right and just moved a little too quick and it made her jump.

We met up at a mall pretty close to my place (it takes her quite awhile to travel there) and I could tell she put in effort to dress up. I told her she looked fantastic and reminded her several times of that as we got takeaways (there was a scenic balcony at the mall) because she was quiet and I thought she was nervous (the compliments were meant to put her at ease). So before we sat down she told me that she was attached, to which I responded "it's alright".

Compliments aren't necessarily going to make her more comfortable and over doing it probably made her more nervous. She will naturally become comfortable as the date settles in and she sees your just another normal guy.

asked her if she wanted to go

don't be so accommodating, just lead, you ask too many nonessential questions

-brum

 

[johndoe]

Hey Brum,

Thanks for the quick reply man.

Sounds like you and I pretty similar, and nice guy that is already pretty social calibrated but just trying to get better with women because we have been programmed by society to be soooo nice? Anyway you correctly ID'd the problem.

Yeah, I also realised that being a nice guy makes you a really frustrated man over time, because you don't go after what you want and wait for things to come to you. As a result, you take things more seriously because opportunities come by rarely and you're just very uptight in general. Just the act of going after what you want, career-wise and romance-wise, is so much more empowering. Still hurts when you fail, but you get over it fast - you got no time to stop man.

You already briefly touched on LEADING with the "are you sure?" article, but I just want to re-emphasize that being a leader and not asking those questions is an easy way to help stay away from the BF zone. Change your "should we have lunch? from a question to a statement... "lets get lunch".... just a slight tweak.

That's a great idea. I'll try that. It seems though that Willie Beck (he has a Youtube Channel) does this in one of his videos and it works out for him. What are your thoughts on that?

Setting a sexual frame can be most easily done with tight fundamentals; strong eye contact, slow speaking, slow moving, sexy smile, confident walk. Everything taught here connects back to them. If you fundamentals aren't in tune with what you are trying to accomplish you won't find consistent results. IE- there's no point learning how to run if you cant even walk.

The great part about fundamentals is, besides slowing your speech, you get to send the message with out opening your mouth. It's all nonverbal. When you are have fundamentals down you will ooze sex making the "framing" problem, less of a problem.

I get what you're saying. I find it really hard to get a handle on these fundamentals when you're reading about them on a screen though, because everyone has a different way of doing it. Plus, it really all has to mesh together with who you are. You can't fake a confident walk, sexy smile or strong eye contact without enough notches on your belt - people see through you. On the other hand, I find that if you understand the mentality behind why, say a guy has a confident walk and make changes in your life to emulate the mentality instead, it's much easier to get that confident walk.

Plus, it seems like everyone has a different way of doing it. I look to movies for inspiration much of the time. Ryan Gosling in Crazy Stupid Love seems like he has got his fundamentals down pat, but they don't show much of him after he walks up to a girl and says "hi". Robert Downey Jr. (in Iron Man) seems like a guy who gets by on groupies, so I imagine he gets away with being really direct in his intentions. Thor seems like he's got his fundamentals down just based on his upbringing, but aside from his washboard abs and oversized hammer I don't think he sets much of a sexual frame - when he's not looking for his hammer he smiles too much and acts like prince-charming. What do you think?

I would tell you more about where I'm at with my fundamentals, but we're not accurate judges of how we appear to others, so what I think of myself doesn't really matter. Many guys have told me about how blown away they were with how comfortable I am opening girls (I'm Asian. Almost nobody does what I do here, and those who do tend to give up after awhile and chalk it up to "our culture's too conservative"; which I don't agree with), and it irritates me that I can't make more out of this.

A guy has also told me that I appear incongruent at times though. Something along the lines of "sometimes its obvious I'm trying to think of the right thing to say to people". He couldn't really put a finger on it when I probed, but I reckon it has something to do with me dropping girls too many compliments. But more on that below.

Do you mean she has a BF already? or she was attached to you?

She has a BF already. Where I come from being "attached" means being in a relationship.

Compliments aren't necessarily going to make her more comfortable and over doing it probably made her more nervous. She will naturally become comfortable as the date settles in and she sees your just another normal guy.

Compliments (on appearance) are how I gauge whether a girl is interested. Seems like girls who like you respond positively to them anyway, and girls who aren't... saves you the time you would've spent going out with them and not being able to make things happen. I learnt it from girls who did it to me to get me to open up (I understand that the dynamics of a girl seducing a guy can be very different, and that I might need to change this).

I think she was dealing with some cognitive dissonance because she had a boyfriend, yet agreed to go out with a guy she'd just met and spoke to briefly. If I wanted to get anywhere with her, I would've needed to address that and convince her that it's okay. But I had no answer to that, no idea of how to address that because I didn't think she'd have even agreed to go out with me if she had a BF.

don't be so accommodating, just lead, you ask too many nonessential questions

Good point. I'll take note of that.

 

[johndoe]

A girl saying "I'm not looking for a relationship" is like sweet, beautiful music to my ears. If she's giving me her number and telling me she doesn't want a relationship, she's communicating to me that she just wants to have fun and that I should not expect her to become my girlfriend or anything like that.

It would have been easy for you, had you realized that you did not make a mistake at all, but were rather playing things well.

In my humble opinion.

Hey Drexel,

I've read a few of your articles on the site. Real honoured that you're posting here if I were to be honest.

I thought about what you and brum wrote quite a bit over today, and I kinda realised what my problem is. I'm able to assume attraction and bring things forward consistently until the girl offers resistance. Then, I begin to take things verbatim and just give away my frame control (when what I have to do is reframe their objection and show them that they're actually attracted to me; all in a light-hearted half-joking manner of course). It takes real strength (and a slight degree of delusion if I were to say so myself. Not that this is a slight; great men all have a little bit of that) to push through resistance like that, especially since our culture and countless Disney movies have conditioned most of us to be a little too compromising.

I've got a question though. If you've got an aloof girl on your hands who agrees to go out with you (and who you're failing to deep dive), what would you do? Seems like its something one comes across often if one moves fast. Just make a move anyway?

 

[Lotus]

I get what you're saying. I find it really hard to get a handle on these fundamentals when you're reading about them on a screen though, because everyone has a different way of doing it. Plus, it really all has to mesh together with who you are. You can't fake a confident walk, sexy smile or strong eye contact without enough notches on your belt - people see through you. On the other hand, I find that if you understand the mentality behind why, say a guy has a confident walk and make changes in your life to emulate the mentality instead, it's much easier to get that confident walk.

Plus, it seems like everyone has a different way of doing it. I look to movies for inspiration much of the time. Ryan Gosling in Crazy Stupid Love seems like he has got his fundamentals down pat, but they don't show much of him after he walks up to a girl and says "hi". Robert Downey Jr. (in Iron Man) seems like a guy who gets by on groupies, so I imagine he gets away with being really direct in his intentions. Thor seems like he's got his fundamentals down just based on his upbringing, but aside from his washboard abs and oversized hammer I don't think he sets much of a sexual frame - when he's not looking for his hammer he smiles too much and acts like prince-charming. What do you think?

I would tell you more about where I'm at with my fundamentals, but we're not accurate judges of how we appear to others, so what I think of myself doesn't really matter. Many guys have told me about how blown away they were with how comfortable I am opening girls (I'm Asian. Almost nobody does what I do here, and those who do tend to give up after awhile and chalk it up to "our culture's too conservative"; which I don't agree with), and it irritates me that I can't make more out of this.

A guy has also told me that I appear incongruent at times though. Something along the lines of "sometimes its obvious I'm trying to think of the right thing to say to people". He couldn't really put a finger on it when I probed, but I reckon it has something to do with me dropping girls too many compliments. But more on that below.

Chase's E-book was were I was able to get a great handle on fundamentals. The first couple chapters focus on them exclusively, and I got a lot out of them.

We aren't always accurate your right, sometimes you are too critical of yourself and sometimes not enough, but I would definitely argue its worth going over each aspect in a journal of some sort. Writing it down makes it easier to see, and if you at least somewhat honest with yourself, you can begin to pin point your weaknesses and strengths.

The thing with movies is you want to focus on what they do and how they do it..... not what they say. Two of the easiest pieces to pick out from actors is they move and speak extremely slow and they have fierce eye contact. Just watch how little they blink during scenes.

Compliments (on appearance) are how I gauge whether a girl is interested. Seems like girls who like you respond positively to them anyway, and girls who aren't... saves you the time you would've spent going out with them and not being able to make things happen. I learnt it from girls who did it to me to get me to open up (I understand that the dynamics of a girl seducing a guy can be very different, and that I might need to change this).

I just meant don't go overboard. They are definitely important, but if you cross the line into overuse the value of them decreases(supply and demand). The word "several" is what stuck with me.