Talking about Seduction while on Dates?

[warrawarra]

Hi there, Anselm from Germany here.

I am 28 y old, slept with two girls yet, so I am pretty inexperienced. First one was a One Night Stand, I was standing in front of a night club, she came over to me, told me I was funny and that she needed some place to sleep so she'll sleep at my place. Told her that my home is pretty far away, she said she doesn't mind, and after almost an hour of walking up a hill she started to understand what I mean by "pretty far away" We had sex, but it wasn't fun.
Two years ago a tall, beautiful, very experienced (I assume) girl approached me at my trade school. On the third date she invited me home to have a bite and we ended up in bed. Tell you, it was great! Of course, as a romantic man, I fell in love instantly and texted her just too much the next few days. Well, she told me that we were just too different and that it's never going to work. But she offered me to visit her sometimes. I didn't understand what she meant, so I asked her and she told me: Well, have a bite, talk, and, yes, have sex.
My answer, of course, was: NO! DEVIL! Now it's my turn! You broke my heart so I am not gonna have sex with you again until you start thinking of a relationship with me! (didn't text her that, just wrote her that this is not what I am looking for)
I actually thought it would be pretty cool to have sex with her, but I knew it wouldn't have a good ending, because my heart was broken.

1,75 years after that I started to change my view of the world into: Wait, these two girls actually seduced me... the first one really sucked but the second one did a great job. How comes girls can make me fall in love with them and I literally got no control over them falling in love with me?
After two month of reading on girlschase (bought some german seduction literature, too, but it was crap) I started meeting girls off of dating apps. The second woman I met with came home with me on the first date, after 20 minutes or so. We sat on my bed watching TV and I kissed her, she tonguekissed me, I wanted to undress her, but she whispered "No" and I said "What? No? Do you not want this?" and she "I didn't say I don't want it!". Oh well... she got cold the next minutes and left after the TV show was over. (DAMN! I should have read the article about last sex resistance before... well, I definitely did read it afterwards, didn't want this to happen again).
Since then I dated 10-15 (don't know exactly) women off of dating apps, but all I got was one of them telling me she wanted to stay friends, the other ones told me they had no interest and it didn't "click" for them and cut contact.

Actually I just had a simple question, but as this is my first post here, I felt like I had to tell you a litte bit about me.

My question is:
Seduction is one of the things I spend much time with and which has become important to me, so I want to share it, of course - when asked for what I do with my time.
Is there a way to talk about seduction to a girl on the the first date?
(Now that I am writing this question I realize that the only girl with whom I really talked much about seduction was the one who wanted to stay friends with me... maybe because she sees I am really trying and thats cool, but I am trying to hard to be interesting to her?)

One more:
My profession is a social one and I started learning to avoid judgements on people and what they did with their lifes... I ended up not even making desicions on what I want my life to be (I didn't want to judge my own life), which wasn't very helpful.
Now that has changed, I want seduction in my life and I started doing sports regularily. Still I have trouble judging books, movies, etc. - but I think it would be good topics to talk about on dates - how can I start judging again?

Yours, Anselm

 

[Kuro]

I'm not sure about talking to the women you date about this subject, but I have a platonic lady friend who I talk about it with. I tell her about my pickup attempts and successes, but in return I listen to her talk about problems with her boyfriend and whatever else she wants to talk about.

Maybe it's perfectly fine to talk about. I can't say - I'm new too. But I feel like a seduction should feel natural to the girl, not as though the guy learned how to do it from a website.

 

[Bboy100]

I'm pretty inexperienced so take anything I say with a grain of salt.

Having said that, I believe (and it seems a lot of the authors would back me up) that you can say/talk about whatever you want with a girl once you're good enough at this stuff. Eventually, your energy/vibe and your fundamentals will carry you through any topic.

As a beginner, I think it would be best to stay away from the topic. Women like to think that it "just happened". Especially if you're moving fast as is the mantra of this website. Also, a lot of people would feel manipulated (even if you're not actually being manipulating!) if they found out you're being calculating/have pre-planned everything that happens (to an extent).

Also, there is a little bit of a stigma around pickup in general. Most people's idea of masculinity is a man who is somehow naturally good at pickup. It feels to most people that even the "average" guy should be able to get laid with relative ease if he tries. To illustrate this, think back to HS when you felt like everyone was having sex except you. You probably know now that it was realistically, only a couple guys who got consistent lays in HS. Everyone else just got lucky (literally!) once in their entire HS career if ever.

Unfortunately, most people (including women) are still stuck with this mental model. So anyone who has to go out of his way to learn it is often labeled as some sort of socially inadequate creep. Again, obviously, none of this is true, but its the lens through which most people (including the women you date!) see this type of stuff.

Also, I feel like it depends on how you mention it. Like, if you just say "I'm looking to improve my social and dating skills" or something along those lines, that might be ok in the right context. But if you go into technique, talking all about "process" and "Law of Least Effort" and "Deep Diving" etc, I feel like most women might be amused, but also very creeped out.

Hope this helps,
Bboy

 

[Smith]

My question is:
Seduction is one of the things I spend much time with and which has become important to me, so I want to share it, of course - when asked for what I do with my time.
Is there a way to talk about seduction to a girl on the the first date?
(Now that I am writing this question I realize that the only girl with whom I really talked much about seduction was the one who wanted to stay friends with me... maybe because she sees I am really trying and thats cool, but I am trying to hard to be interesting to her?)

One more:
My profession is a social one and I started learning to avoid judgements on people and what they did with their lifes... I ended up not even making desicions on what I want my life to be (I didn't want to judge my own life), which wasn't very helpful.
Now that has changed, I want seduction in my life and I started doing sports regularily. Still I have trouble judging books, movies, etc. - but I think it would be good topics to talk about on dates - how can I start judging again?

Yours, Anselm

From my experience, it seems to turn girls off when you talk about seduction and how to seduce other girls. So I just avoid that topic completely these days, even if she brings up the question "do you do this a lot?" I'll give her honest but vague answer like "well I just love women so much I can't help it!" then CHANGE the topic.
Get other hobbies besides seduction.

I think you're confusing having opinions with being judgmental. I'm not sure how others would define being non-judgmental, but for me, it's about having your own opinion but you're also open to other people's idea.

 

[ray_zorse]

Yeah it's a very bad idea to talk about seduction with your targets. The problem is that it ruins attainability.

Attainabillity = whether she can get you... so, obviously if you're out of her league (say you're the class jock and star footballer and she's the class fatty)... then she'll feel she can't lay you... but it's a bit more subtle than that, because it's actually "does she feel you are legitimate and does she feel she can get her needs met by you" (refer to Chase's ebook or the main site for more information about attainability)... if she thinks you're a player your attainability tanks, well assuming she's not looking for a player, this might not matter in Cancun on Spring Break, but generally it's a fairly safe assumption that she's looking for a genuine guy.

This has ruined a nunber of promising interactions for me lately. (Not talking about pickup as such, but having her think I'm a player through my carelessness).

Enough said.

-Ray