The "Nice Guy"

[Estate]

Hey good people of GC!

I just wanted to get some conversation going on "being the nice guy". So I know there are lots of articles here and elsewhere about "nice guys" and how they "finish last" and Chase has some awesome thoughts on it in his articles but lets get some discussion on it.

I grew up being the nice guy. I grew up in a good Irish Catholic family and was thought by parents, teachers and elders that good old quote "Do unto others as you want them to do unto you".... ok, lets not go religious on this topic but it was never really a religious thing to me... it was just the way me and those around me lived our lives... just be nice, respectful, never talk out of turn, smile, say thank you and just expect the same in return.

Honestly... no matter what anyone tells me, I still believe these are SOME good traits of a good man. Even though some guys still say you have to be a "dick" to get girls, I don't take it that far.

But lets be honest... You can be nice and then you can be a push-over... and I was a push-over. I began to wake up to it a few years ago. I actually dumped a whole bunch of friends at the time, which was difficult to do. But I realized they didn't value my friendship. I was always running around doing things for them, helping them, giving whatever I could to be a "nice guy" but when they weren't actually looking for something, they were never around. The same thing obviously lead to a lack of success with women.

Since I still try to be a good guy and not a dick, it's often a fine line with women. You can be nice and respectful and chivalrous but also need to push boundaries, step outside of comfort zones, talk and act in a strong manner and not a supplicative one. But you don't need to be a total dick, IMO.

An example for me is when a girl tells you what she does for work or something she does for fun.
Nice Guy: "Oh cool."... (followed by silence)
Good Guy: "Why are you interested in that?" "How do you feel about that?" "Why do you prefer to do that instead of this..." (Challenging her to share more before you offer your appreciation)
Dick: "Ugh, why would you do that? That's sh*t" (Is this a neg? Is it to take her down a peg? I don't even know but to me its unnessessary)

Any thoughts, examples or conclusions on this topic guys?

 

[Flames]

I'm mostly a nice guy and it's never really held me back because despite that, I play by my own rules. The only difference is these days I do stuff 'just because' and not because I feel it'll get me closer to someone or I'll gain something from it (even though I know I will). It's more like I'll do something not expecting anything in return, without an ulterior motive.

Also I give ppl what they need and not what they want..That and my stubbornness seems to work well for me ppl are never entirely sure wether I'll say yes or no to a request.

 

[skin_man]

I think nice guys come from fear of losing the warm fuzzy feeling of good companionship or rest. they may leave things unruffled whether good or bad.

Many times as a nice guy, one might enjoy the company of talking to a pretty girl and because he doesn't want to ruffle the situation, would keep talking and talking without moving. Hence the novelty wears off.

I heard a seduction teacher once say that some guys think it's manly to break rapport..believing that's what makes them real men. He used that to outline that it's important to be temperate in being that way.

So basically I was just highlighting the natural behaviour of nice guys and dicks with introduction to the way it's to be - temperate; Not too much on both sides.

I've been a nice guy far quite a bit. It's always such a joy to see the look of awe on the faces of those that used to treat me as a push over when I started getting a bit edgy. showing that I've "grown". And by all means I'm not bitter.

Enjoy!

 

[Nuncle]

Well "nice" is difficult to pin down for a couple of reasons.

Firstly, sometimes you have to be strong but in a lot of those situations it is not clear cut who is right or wrong. At the moment I am quite aggressively pursuing a former landlady for return of the rest of my rental deposit. Now maybe an impartial observer would think she was in the right, I don't know. She probably thinks I am being a dick. But if I didn't pursue it that wouldn't make me a nice guy, just a weak one (this is just an example).

Also "niceness" is not fixed. Sometimes carrying out a nice act involves being strong, for example it's nice to step in while someone else is being bullied but you have to be quite a strong person to successfully step in. If you have the skills to be able to do that it's probably because you have experience of being nasty in other contexts. And if you are able to effectively throw your weight around like that it means that sometimes you will use that skill for less noble ends, whether you realise it at the time or not.

Secondly people are generally less nice than they think. They tend to edit out their own acts of nastiness, telling themselves that when they do them it somehow doesn't count - because they don't normally do it or because they're more intelligent/important than other people or the victim deserved it in this case or whatever. Other people, of course, only carry out nasty acts because they want to be a dick! So a guy who isn't good with women who says to himself "but I'm a really nice guy!" probably actually has about the same level or morality as the stronger guys who get laid more.

To use myself as an example I always used to tell myself I would NEVER cheat on anyone I'm in a relationship with. But as I get better with women and get more "f*** me" looks from stunners that has come tumbling down pretty rapidly. Now I say "Well actually I would just have to cheat with her. OMG she is so sexy I'd just have to!"

Of course standout jerks do have a couple of advantages in the mating game (a) the fact that their behaviour is not influenced by other people's approval indicates they are strong and (b) the fact that their behaviour is not influenced by women's approval indicates that they have abundance.
Women are attracted to these elements and then if they want to they can rationalise by finding the redeeming features that even the biggest jerks have (maybe loves animals, nice to his mum, whatever).

That said you should try and be true to yourself, which women also like at a subconscious level. I hate these people who deliberately make themselves jerks because they think it's sexy. That's kind of weak in itself when you think about it and they really do often end up causing harm to people.

Also I don't think it's true that "nice guys finish last". If you're true to yourself you can never really finish last.

Just don't confuse "nice" with "weak" (speaking as quite a weak person myself!)