The Question

[Novacane]

A girl I have recently decided to cut contact with (Due to things getting heated and her proving she can't really handle the FWB dynamic) asked me the last time we finished in bed the question "How many girls have you slept with?" Now this isn't the first time I was asked this question by a girl the first time I answered, leading to her attraction somewhat plummeting, this time around I panicked replying with "You shouldn't ask a question like that". Now how do you guys handle this situation when asked the question, do you straight up answer or try to shoot down the question all together? Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[trashKENNUT]

A girl I have recently decided to cut contact with (Due to things getting heated and her proving she can't really handle the FWB dynamic) asked me the last time we finished in bed the question "How many girls have you slept with?" Now this isn't the first time I was asked this question by a girl the first time I answered, leading to her attraction somewhat plummeting, this time around I panicked replying with "You shouldn't ask a question like that". Now how do you guys handle this situation when asked the question, do you straight up answer or try to shoot down the question all together? Any advice would be appreciated.

You cannot tell her exactly your number if you're too low on count. You also can't tell the exact digits once you good at it. It can make you an asshole. Female logic, sometimes can be idiotic.

i ask her back the question and then i tell her that i been with a lot of women and it is just a number. It kinds of somewhat link to the age thing when she is older and you are younger. Something generally vague do the trick.

Ask her back, I ask her if those guys are somebody meaningful in her life and then it fades off.

Zac

 

[Chase]

Usually better to fudge your number on this one. It's like age... too much higher than hers, and she can't relate. Too much lower than hers, and you're a child.

The most reliable way is to go based on your read of her, if you're reasonably experienced, and tell her something in her world view. e.g., if she's super conservative (and not just playing super conservative), tell her you're high single digits or low double digits at most (even that might be pushing it), otherwise you're an animal. I had a friend who specialized in sleeping with Asian women, many of whom were conservative (and many more who weren't, but would act like they were until the day that they died), and he would tell them "4." When women view sex as something that still goes hand-in-hand with love, telling them you've been with 200 women just makes you a dangerous wild man who's fated to break their hearts, and they close off and auto-reject. You must keep it closer to their realities.

If she's a bit more experienced, something in the mid-teens works well here. I quite like "17" for these.

If she's saucy, sexy, sensual, and clearly someone who's been around the block, you're usually pretty safe with anything from 25 to 70 or so. Obviously, modify by age and culture; if you're still pretty young, cut these numbers down a bit to what feels realistic for your age.

If she's a sex maniac, and you're not super young, you usually want triple digits, that way she can breathe easy and say, "Whew! Me too," or, "Wow, you've got me beat! The only guy I know with more is [some celebrity she hooked up with on a yacht somewhere]."

Of course, if you're not actually all that experienced yet, you won't match the vibe of a high count guy, and experienced women will pick up on it. So if you're still working on getting there numbers-wise, and you think she's figured you for less experienced, you can just say, "How many do you think?" and then tell her it's 4 or 5 over whatever number she picks. Because she's already picked the number, and you're actually a little bit above whatever she thought, if she was attracted to you originally, she'll usually continue to be once you've told her a count.

Chase

 

[lux7]

I don't like lying.

Just don't answer.
"It doesn't matter", and you kiss or move on with what you were doing/saying.

 

[Franco]

lucifer7,

"It doesn't matter", and you kiss or move on with what you were doing/saying.

She's not going to like that answer because it matters to her, otherwise she wouldn't be asking. And whenever you say, "it doesn't matter," she'll get nervous because it sounds like you have something to hide. So, what you respond to that question with and the way you respond to it will affect what she'll think of you.

The unfortunate part about this question is that it really doesn't matter, so lying about the number here isn't going to hurt you one bit, and if you pick a good number that seems honest and reliable to her, it'll make her feel at ease. She'll have no way of finding out whether or not it's true unless you give her a number that doesn't reflect your experience in the bedroom (i.e. you say you've been with more than 20 and then you're unable to go for more than a few minutes or unable to give her an orgasm after hours of trying).

It's a question she shouldn't ask (but girls sometimes will), so you give her an answer that shouldn't matter (but sounds honest) to calm her nerves.

- Franco

 

[lux7]

lucifer7,

"It doesn't matter", and you kiss or move on with what you were doing/saying.

She's not going to like that answer because it matters to her, otherwise she wouldn't be asking. And whenever a guy says, "it doesn't matter," she'll get nervous because it sounds like you have something to hide. So, what you respond to that question with and the way you respond to it will affect what she'll think of you.

The unfortunate part about this question is that it really doesn't matter, so lying about the number here isn't going to hurt you one bit, and if you pick a good number that seems honest and reliable to her, it'll make her feel at ease. She'll have no way of finding out whether or not it's true unless you give her a number that doesn't reflect your experience in the bedroom (i.e. you say you've been with more than 20 and then you're unable to go for more than a few minutes or unable to give her an orgasm after hours of trying).

It's a question she shouldn't ask (but girls sometimes will), so you give her an answer that shouldn't matter (but sounds honest) to calm her nerves.

- Franco

Yeah, but especially when I like a girl, there are people who don't feel like lying (me being one of them).

Imagine you're gonna have a relationship with her afterwards, or it's a person it will really go on to become important to you.
Do you want to build such relationship on... Lies?
I go for frankness whenever I can. And granted, I can't always, but I'd rather limit lies any time I can.

I actually usually answer "I don't count" (which is true true, even if it would actually be very easy , I force myself not to tally ) or (or add) "what matters is that I'm feeling good with you".
It's never gotten so inquisitive after that to the point I had to come up with a number.

Joking is also another way to answer, even though I'm not sure how effective:
once when a girl asked "how many girls have you brought home" I said "you're the first" and it all finished with a laugh (and no sex afterwards, but I don't think it was wholly because of the answer ).

 

[Franco]

luc,

Imagine you're gonna have a relationship with her afterwards, or it's a person it will really go on to become important to you.

Do you want to build such relationship on... Lies?

"Lies?" Well, I'm not sure how many lies you're attempting to tell a girl, but this sounds like just one lie to me. =)

This will be a question that absolutely never comes up with a girl again for as long as you're with her if you answer it well.

EDIT: And if for some odd reason she WAS to bring it up again, it would indicate that you are not taking care of the relationship in some other way, and she doesn't feel "secure" with you.

And granted, I can't always, but I'd rather limit lies any time I can.

Ditto.

I actually usually answer "I don't count" (which is true true, even if it would actually be very easy , I force myself not to tally )

This is actually a much better answer than "it doesn't matter." It is a way of saying that you have been with a lot of women.

It's not my preferred answer as it won't always be something a girl wants to hear and it still could give you trouble in the future with her, but it's certainly better than trying to convince her that the number doesn't matter. But in the same process, you are indirectly trying to justify that "covering the truth" is different from "lying." Because unless you're a true casanova already, there's a pretty damn good chance you have a solid idea of how many women you've been with. If you're going to try to "stretch" the truth anyway, you might as well give her the answer that will give you the best results. =)

Joking is also another way to answer, even though I'm not sure how effective:
once when a girl asked "how many girls have you brought home" I said "you're the first" and it all finished with a laugh (and no sex afterwards, but I don't think it was wholly because of the answer ).

Again, this is also a better answer than "it doesn't matter." But you are also not answering her question, so you are increasing the chance that it is more likely to come up again because she may not trust you as much later when she realizes you dodged it. So you're also increasing the chances that she'll shit test you more because of that fact.

So I would rather just give her a blunt answer that she can come to terms with then and there, and you'll find that your relationship afterward will be much better once she's accepted that.

- Franco

 

[lux7]

luc,

Imagine you're gonna have a relationship with her afterwards, or it's a person it will really go on to become important to you.

Do you want to build such relationship on... Lies?

"Lies?" Well, I'm not sure how many lies you're attempting to tell a girl, but this sounds like just one lie to me. =)

This will be a question that absolutely never comes up with a girl again for as long as you're with her if you answer it well.

EDIT: And if for some odd reason she WAS to bring it up again, it would indicate that you are not taking care of the relationship in some other way, and she doesn't feel "secure" with you.

And granted, I can't always, but I'd rather limit lies any time I can.

Ditto.

I actually usually answer "I don't count" (which is true true, even if it would actually be very easy , I force myself not to tally )

This is actually a much better answer than "it doesn't matter." It is a way of saying that you have been with a lot of women.

It's not my preferred answer as it won't always be something a girl wants to hear and it still could give you trouble in the future with her, but it's certainly better than trying to convince her that the number doesn't matter. But in the same process, you are indirectly trying to justify that "covering the truth" is different from "lying." Because unless you're a true casanova already, there's a pretty damn good chance you have a solid idea of how many women you've been with. If you're going to try to "stretch" the truth anyway, you might as well give her the answer that will give you the best results. =)

Joking is also another way to answer, even though I'm not sure how effective:
once when a girl asked "how many girls have you brought home" I said "you're the first" and it all finished with a laugh (and no sex afterwards, but I don't think it was wholly because of the answer ).

Again, this is also a better answer than "it doesn't matter." But you are also not answering her question, so you are increasing the chance that it is more likely to come up again because she may not trust you as much later when she realizes you dodged it. So you're also increasing the chances that she'll shit test you more because of that fact.

So I would rather just give her a blunt answer that she can come to terms with then and there, and you'll find that your relationship afterward will be much better once she's accepted that.

- Franco

I like reading your posts and exchanging ideas with you Franco .

I actually agree, "doesn't matter" could actually also come across as rude.
It was a bad short answer where I didn't explain myself and what I meant was actually conveying the girl the message that your main focus is the present -with her- and not the past.

Still, we don't agree 100% but you make a very good point about the fact that a clear answer avoids issues more than a non answer.

 

[Chase]

One note - if you have moral reservations about lying whatsoever (which, incidentally, only the most inexperienced women will themselves have; women lose these pretty fast once they start having sex, although it's not uncommon for men to retain them even into the hundreds of partners), you can always opt to just be honest, and deal with whatever fallout you have to deal with.

If you're getting asked prior to sex and you don't think she'll like the answer, you probably want to delay answering until after sex, however; like by saying things like, "I'll tell you later," or, "That's a boring question. Ask me something interesting instead."

Chase

 

[lux7]

One note - if you have moral reservations about lying whatsoever (which, incidentally, only the most inexperienced women will themselves have; women lose these pretty fast once they start having sex, although it's not uncommon for men to retain them even into the hundreds of partners), you can always opt to just be honest, and deal with whatever fallout you have to deal with.

If you're getting asked prior to sex and you don't think she'll like the answer, you probably want to delay answering until after sex, however; like by saying things like, "I'll tell you later," or, "That's a boring question. Ask me something interesting instead."

Chase

So you're saying there's a relation between "ease of lying" and experience?
Could, could be actually, and not just about sexual partners, but experience and age in general -as people grow older it's often the case they become less idealistic and much more pragmatic-.

But I like to think there are people -at least some- who like behind frank with the people around them no matter the experience/age.

 

[Chase]

So you're saying there's a relation between "ease of lying" and experience?

Yes, absolutely. The more social experience you have with people - friends, sex partners, socializing, the working world - the more the ease and ability to lie stops being a black-and-white "Either you lie and you're a bad person, or you tell the truth and you're a good person" thing and more a "I don't tell these kinds of lies because this is about important stuff and it's wrong of me to lie about that and people can get hurt or it can blow up in my face, but are you kidding? Why WOULDN'T you lie about this OTHER thing? Nobody cares if you do, and if you tell the truth it's a DISASTER."

Anyone you meet with 3+ sex partners or 27+ years of life falls into that camp, just about, including religious people, priests, preachers, parents, you name it.

Could, could be actually, and not just about sexual partners, but experience and age in general -as people grow older it's often the case they become less idealistic and much more pragmatic-.

But I like to think there are people -at least some- who like behind frank with the people around them no matter the experience/age.

Sure - most people are frank about most things. NOBODY is frank about EVERYTHING, except perhaps a few rather more or less extreme individuals (I knew a guy with Asperger's - smart guy - whom I'm pretty sure had never told a lie in his life... he also had zero ability to filter, and wasn't the kind of guy you wanted around your girlfriend, just because of the things that would come out of his mouth).

People will fib about things that they judge do not matter in the long run to you, but are potentially damaging in the here and now if they tell you the precise truth.

One good example might be if you were staying at your parents' home, and they asked you, "Lucifer, we heard some strange noises last night, and... well, this is embarrassing to ask, but you weren't masturbating in your room last night, were you?" Now, if you're on total honesty, you're going to unabashedly say, "Well, if you must ask, Mom, then yes I was," and good on you for being honest, but there is always going to be some weirdness there - maybe not a lot... maybe just a little; but it's always going to be there - between you and Mom and Dad. Or you can say, "Jesus, what am I, a teenager? No guys, I was NOT masturbating last night... give me a break, come on!" and they'll be relieved and so will you and there will never be any weirdness there.

What's the "right" thing to do? Are you a bad person if you lie to your parents about your nocturnal activities? Are you a "liar" now, and no longer a respectable human being?

Very much depends on your values, and where you draw the line... but for 99% of the population, the answer is going to be, "No, that's just not something you tell your folks."

Most women view their partner counts this way. When you're starting out, you will often believe your girlfriends when they tell you their partner counts, because they will seem dead sincere, and you know how honest they are with you about most everything else, so you'll assume they were honest with you about that, too.

... but, if you maintain a very open atmosphere in your relationship about sex, and you maintain a very non-judgmental pose, sooner or later, at some point, your girlfriend is often going to say, "Remember I told you I slept with 3 guys? It's actually 5."

... and then, if you take that reaction in stride, and are calm, and don't seem to react or care one way or another, a few months later she may say, "Actually, it was 6. 6 guys that I've slept with. I never told that to ANYONE... I thought they would judge me."

And that's why people lie.

It's why people even lie about lying.

In fact, if you meet anyone with a shred of life experience beyond 2 or 3 sex partners and 25 to 27 years of age and he or she claims to NEVER tell a lie, be crazy suspicious, because in my experience, the people who talk about honesty (aside from the young and inexperienced) are the ones with the most to hide, and the ones working the hardest to create a veil of illusion atop a mound of deceit.

Chase

 

[lux7]

So you're saying there's a relation between "ease of lying" and experience?

Yes, absolutely. The more social experience you have with people - friends, sex partners, socializing, the working world - the more the ease and ability to lie stops being a black-and-white "Either you lie and you're a bad person, or you tell the truth and you're a good person" thing and more a "I don't tell these kinds of lies because this is about important stuff and it's wrong of me to lie about that and people can get hurt or it can blow up in my face, but are you kidding? Why WOULDN'T you lie about this OTHER thing? Nobody cares if you do, and if you tell the truth it's a DISASTER."

Anyone you meet with 3+ sex partners or 27+ years of life falls into that camp, just about, including religious people, priests, preachers, parents, you name it.

Could, could be actually, and not just about sexual partners, but experience and age in general -as people grow older it's often the case they become less idealistic and much more pragmatic-.

But I like to think there are people -at least some- who like behind frank with the people around them no matter the experience/age.

Sure - most people are frank about most things. NOBODY is frank about EVERYTHING, except perhaps a few rather more or less extreme individuals (I knew a guy with Asperger's - smart guy - whom I'm pretty sure had never told a lie in his life... he also had zero ability to filter, and wasn't the kind of guy you wanted around your girlfriend, just because of the things that would come out of his mouth).

People will fib about things that they judge do not matter in the long run to you, but are potentially damaging in the here and now if they tell you the precise truth.

One good example might be if you were staying at your parents' home, and they asked you, "Lucifer, we heard some strange noises last night, and... well, this is embarrassing to ask, but you weren't masturbating in your room last night, were you?" Now, if you're on total honesty, you're going to unabashedly say, "Well, if you must ask, Mom, then yes I was," and good on you for being honest, but there is always going to be some weirdness there - maybe not a lot... maybe just a little; but it's always going to be there - between you and Mom and Dad. Or you can say, "Jesus, what am I, a teenager? No guys, I was NOT masturbating last night... give me a break, come on!" and they'll be relieved and so will you and there will never be any weirdness there.

What's the "right" thing to do? Are you a bad person if you lie to your parents about your nocturnal activities? Are you a "liar" now, and no longer a respectable human being?

Very much depends on your values, and where you draw the line... but for 99% of the population, the answer is going to be, "No, that's just not something you tell your folks."

Most women view their partner counts this way. When you're starting out, you will often believe your girlfriends when they tell you their partner counts, because they will seem dead sincere, and you know how honest they are with you about most everything else, so you'll assume they were honest with you about that, too.

... but, if you maintain a very open atmosphere in your relationship about sex, and you maintain a very non-judgmental pose, sooner or later, at some point, your girlfriend is often going to say, "Remember I told you I slept with 3 guys? It's actually 5."

... and then, if you take that reaction in stride, and are calm, and don't seem to react or care one way or another, a few months later she may say, "Actually, it was 6. 6 guys that I've slept with. I never told that to ANYONE... I thought they would judge me."

And that's why people lie.

It's why people even lie about lying.

In fact, if you meet anyone with a shred of life experience beyond 2 or 3 sex partners and 25 to 27 years of age and he or she claims to NEVER tell a lie, be crazy suspicious, because in my experience, the people who talk about honesty (aside from the young and inexperienced) are the ones with the most to hide, and the ones working the hardest to create a veil of illusion atop a mound of deceit.

Chase

Yes, good post, very true.
Sometimes you have to think about extremes to understand a point, like that friend of yours unable to hide the truth under any circumstance
We might call those you are mentioning "grease white lies", such as lies that are not used to take people down and take advantage of others and not even to build yourself up to something you're clearly not, but more like fibs that make life run smoother for everyone involved.

There was a sentence from a person I respected a lot from childhood that I still remember, something like "there's a very fine line between calling a spade a spade and being rude, and people who take pride of being the former often end up being the latter".

 

[carpedm]

"Always be honest, but only be as open as is necessary."

I am a beginner here (caveat emptor), and have little experience with women other than a two year relationship with a girl I could have married--the relationship to which here I shall refer.

Through that relationship, and after I left her and came back to her several times (indicative of an unhealthy relationship), I learned about many aspects of romance, love, and partnership, to include the importance of minding relationship expectations (do a search for the applicable GC article).

In addition to the relationship expectations angle, I came to the above realization and motto "Always be honest, but only be as open as is necessary." This is one application of what Chase referred to here in his most recent response to your thread with regard to black and white thinking. In the simplest interpretation of the above motto, you can deduce that certain things are better left unsaid, and that this is okay and is not to be considered to be lying or dishonesty. Of course, you ultimately judge which things are, in fact, better left unsaid, so take an Aristotelian approach and take the correct action, at the correct time, to the right degree. This is the antithesis to black and white thinking, and it is an approach I take in most everything I do.

Live excellently.

 

[trashKENNUT]

In fact, if you meet anyone with a shred of life experience beyond 2 or 3 sex partners and 25 to 27 years of age and he or she claims to NEVER tell a lie, be crazy suspicious, because in my experience, the people who talk about honesty (aside from the young and inexperienced) are the ones with the most to hide, and the ones working the hardest to create a veil of illusion atop a mound of deceit.

I had to thumbs up this one. This is truthfully so.

Zac