Tips on getting lean?

[Salamence]

I've read the article weight loss for Men: 23 Tips to Blow Your Mind. (Great article by the way)
I read the article on december 2012 since and started on the ketosis diet on new years. Since then i have lost 83 pounds.
I weighed 306 pounds had 36% body fat, now im at 223 pounds (i'm not sure how much body fat i have now though).
I lost all that weight, but i still have love handles. They are big and noticeable and my stomach is aswell. But lately almost three weeks i can't get lower than 223 pounds. I just wanted to know if i can get lean on just doing ketosis or do i switch more on a balance diet?
I'm also afraid to switch because i have been in ketosis since new years (that is roughly around 5 months) and if i switch to a more balance diet i would gain weight again. Anyone have experience with this?

P.S. i am kinda tired of ketosis, i like the fatty foods but i do miss fruits and all those things haha
thanks for reading you guys
Cya later
-Salamence

 

[nino]

First of all, congratulations on your weight loss. 83 pounds in 4 months is awesome!

You've reached what in the bodybuilding community is called a "weight loss plateau". It's completely normal to stall after some time no matter whether you're trying to lose weight, build muscle or even pick up girls. Usually plateaus are something you just got to fight thru, first by trying to make a couple of small adjustments, in your case the first thing I'd suggest is to recalculate your calorie requirements. As you lose weight your body needs less and less energy (calories) to maintain your weight so you have to gradually lower your caloric intake.

Sometimes not even that seems to help tho. The reason for that most certainly is your metabolism. You've been on a straight energy restriction for an extended period of time which will have its toll on your body. Easy fix: treat yourself to a cheat day once a week/every two weeks. Some people even do 2-3 cheat days a week but if you're overweight that definitely would be too much. What is a cheat day? One day were you just relax and don't stress over your diet and eat whatever you desire, in (almost) any amount you desire. Obviously, don't go completely bonkers but treat yourself to a BBQ with your family. Oh, they offer some cake as dessert? Go for it! This will help you relax physically as well as help your body maintain some strength.

Keep in mind that this [carbs] will kick you out of Ketosis! Which is what I wanted to touch on next anyway. First of all, if you've been in Ketosis for 4 months straight you're not following the Ketogenic diet but rather Atkinson. Why am I so picky about the terminology? Well, the Ketogenic diet is a carbohydrate restrictive diet invented for bodybuilders meaning that there will be a carb refeed (yes, part of the diet is to break the diet). Goes hand in hand with the cheat days I spoke about above. This is, like I said, to keep up the body's strength and ability to further lose weight, in addition to providing it with some energy for training the following week. So if you're really interested in maintaining a diet with little to no carbs, yet miss fruits like you said I'll provide a link at the end of the post on how to properly follow the protocol.

But one more thing I want to touch on: all diets are scams!

Okay okay, not really but all those magical promises they make are. You said you are afraid to stop losing weight once you're out of Ketosis. Let me tell you this, you don't lose weight because you have some Ketons floating around in your body, you do so because you consume less calories than you burn. All diets do is offer a script that may be convenient for some to follow in order to maintain a caloric deficit but in the end of the day it's all and just about calories in vs. calories out.

Last but not least, do not forget about physical exercise like cardio and weightlifting. It's good for your overall health, your cardiovascular and immune system and your metabolism. Also, doing physical activities help increase your caloric intake and thus maintain a caloric deficit which is your goal in order to lose weight. Add weightlifting and apart from having a nice physique to show off once you got rid of your body fat you also gain the benefits of dealing with stretch marks and loose skin as well as extra fat loss (well, indirectly but as muscle weigh more than fat they require extra energy (calories!) to maintain). If you're overweight activities like rope skipping or running could be too taxing on your body and joints but things like fast walking already burn quite a bit of energy and are an excellent starting point.

But back to diet. You're probably asking yourself now if what I said about the whole caloric deficit thingy means that basically you can eat anything you want and still lose weight? Well, basically yes! It brings one sacrifice with it: you have to count every single calorie, at least in the beginning. If you take me e.g I don't count calories anymore, I've become pretty good at eyeballing my portion sizes and I know exactly what I'm getting in and also check with the mirror how my fat gain/loss is going alongside my muscle gain/strength loss in the gym. Having said that, don't take it as a free pass to eat any junk out there but if you've got some spare calories left, why not treat yourself to a chocolate bar?

Sorry for the lengthy post and if I digressed a little but hope it will help you

- nino


Ketogenic diet:

Step by step guide:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=36497

in-depth guide:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthrea ... =132598293

 

[Ross]

First off, congratulations on losing that much weight.

Secondly, there are a whole host of ways to get a leaner, nicer body. My ideology on lifting weights has changed quite a bit since I wrote on how to build a sexy body, but the concepts still apply. I would suggest doing some form of intense aerobic work and some form of intense anaerobic work throughout the week.

Also, with ketosis, you can still have plenty of fruits. Usually you can stay in ketosis while eating around 50g of Carbs, but it differs. I recommend using ketostixs while changing your diet to make sure you are still in ketosis. Some of the best fruits to eat are blackberries and coconuts. The oil in coconuts has actually been proven to extend the range of carbs that you can eat while still in ketosis.

If you add some intense aerobic work along with weightlifting, I'd be willing to bet that you'd lose a few more pounds as well as shape your body better. I also don't suggest going out of ketosis every week or so. The longer that you stay in ketosis, the more efficient it becomes. I have friends that are in ketosis and are able to eat up to 100g of Carbs because they've been in it for so long and gradually increased the amount of carbs they consumed.

If I were you, I wouldn't worry about trying to change things. Keep them the way they are for now, as it obviously worked. Any sudden change may bring you back into old habits and cause weight gain. Stay in ketosis and perhaps add eating some coconuts/blackberries to fulfill desires for sweets, all while measuring using ketostixs to ensure you don't get out of ketosis.

 

[Salamence]

Thanks for the replies guys!
I was actually planning on getting out of ketosis tonight haha
The diet is good but as for long term I don't want to be in ketosis forever.
I'm going to go a more balanced diet ( whole grains etc...) And test it out if I can lose weight.
I know changing diets is scary for me because I'm afraid if I eat carbs I might get to hung up on them but ill put my will power to the test.

 

[Eric]

Chase linked me here over email; You are fucking awesome, made my day.

There's a few things you'll need to consider, mainly:

"What do I want to do, not later but NOW? Do I want to do keep losing weight fast, moderately, or am I happy with staying where I'm at for awhile?"

Personally, I'd like to see you continue losing weight, and fast. I'm also worried about rebounding; bad eating habits can come back full force.

Losing Fast:
- Look into kiefer's carb nite program; basically cyclic ketosis.
- Fasting (or more, if you're already doing that)
- Lower caloric intake
- Take advantage of the use of stims (caffeine, and nicotine -- the later is only suitable while fasted)
- Hill walking while fasted

Losing Moderately.
- Balanced Diets that revolve around whole foods (whole grains/bread are not whole foods, they are processed)
- Intermittent Fasting

Some of the losing fast options are a bit extreme, which is a bit frowned upon (and can be dangerous at times). I'd like to give you all options though, and you're in a much healthier state now. When I'm trying to cut weight I've found a cool system for me that works is have nicotine gum (2mg, nicotine by itself is not cancerous nor highly addictive, I take it and have never smoked in my life ) and caffeine in the morning to curb my hunger, and then fast for the rest of the day. I'll end the day with a big protein shake (>100g protein) mixed in with whole milk and heavy cream. The ketosis + fasting + nicotine + caffeine makes me not even want to eat, and I can get a lot of work done. Protein and fat at the end of the day puts me to sleep before bed, and gives me energy for the next day.

You can get lean on ketosis, but the main problem with it and weight is that there's a body recomp aspect. You'll gain mass, and at the same time as you become leaner your body loses it's ability to oxidize fat. You'll be stuck at the same weight for awhile and it's hard to tell if 1) energy expenditure is lower than your intake or available stores, 2) you're simply gaining more muscle than you can lose fat, 3) other hormetic down regulations preventing fat loss. Pile ontop the lack of food selection and it can be hard to stick to once you hit the infamous keto plateau. Kiefer's carb nite helps with this by allowing you to bing one night of the week (read up on the protocol before doing this, there's a proper way to do it). If you're totally sick of ketosis you can always switch over to fasting and losing weight that way; Instead of restricting food choices just restrict when (or how much) you eat.

Now, if you're wanting to take a break from dieting for a bit, just make sure you keep the carb count on the lower side.. 100g would be good. It's okay to go 200g but don't make it a habit. If you feel your weight to start creeping back up get back on track immediately. The upside is, now that you've been able to lose this much weight in 4 months, you can do it again and know exactly how.

 

[Salamence]

Ah thanks for the great info man.
Yeah i wanna lose weight FAST. So i'll give the cyclic ketosis a try. How does that work exactly? Do i eat carbs for one day out of the week? Does it work well?
And another question. How often should i fast? I would fast once a week for 14 to 15 hours without eating and only drinking water.
Also would you recommend using coconut oil?

 

[Eric]

Ah thanks for the great info man.
Yeah i wanna lose weight FAST. So i'll give the cyclic ketosis a try. How does that work exactly? Do i eat carbs for one day out of the week? Does it work well?
And another question. How often should i fast? I would fast once a week for 14 to 15 hours without eating and only drinking water.
Also would you recommend using coconut oil?

If I were suddenly your weight, I would be fasting for multiple days at a time to get down to where I want to be. That's a hard thing to do though. For starter's I'd say do the 14-15 hour fast every day. Once you can do that every day then do 20 hours. Start shrinking your eating window from (Breakfast, Dinner) to (Lunch, Dinner) and then eventually you'll get down to just having one meal per day.

I don't think coconut oil is of much help, it's more of a performance thing. MCT Oil in coffee works great but again, I feel like it'd be extra calories for you that you don't really need.

Cyclic keto.. I'm a bit iffy on it. I think it works well but ultimately I feel it slows progress. See how it works for you. Basically you wait 7 days in between ketosis to carb up for the night. Wait until around 5pm, and then eat a ton of carbs (400-500g is good, more is fine too).

I think at this point, morning fasting + exercise, combined with keto during the week and a once every 7 days carb nite are going to be your keys to success. Also, like I said, add in the caffeine in the morning during the fast and before any exercise.

So basically, if you're going to carb up tonight.. just eat a ton of pizza or w/e you like and "cheat". Tomorrow get back on the ketosis train and do another carb up 7 days later. For tomorrow, as an example, an optimal schedule including everything would be: (if you wake up early)

-----

7:00 AM: 2mg Nicotine gum if you want to go that route, if not skip this step, or just have coffee
7:30 AM: Black Coffee, however much. This has to be 30min after nicotine because eating/drinking anything with nico causes malabsorption of it and renders it ineffective.
9:00 AM: More coffee, I'd say a little bit of cream at this point is fine.
9:10 AM: Fasted training -- walking up hills. Bring a heavy backpack if you'd like.
2:00 PM: First ketogenic meal
6:00-9:00 PM: Second (and last) ketogenic meal.
11:00PM: Sleep, etc

-----

Now, if we take that further... this is what the penultimate version would be like, second to straight up fasting for multiple days:

7:00 AM: Same as above
7:30 AM: Same
9:00 AM: ^
9:10 AM: ^
9:00 AM - 9:00 PM: Fasting
9:00 PM: Protein shake w/ heavy cream, or 6-8 eggs with butter. 800 cals or less.
11:00 PM: Sleep

But again, that's really hard and albeit extreme. These can be repeated every day ad infinitum until you get to the weight you'd like to be at. It has to be modified a little for sports/performance training though.

 

[Salamence]

The diet you outlined doesn't sound to extreme to me. I can do take it haha
I'll try it for a week and see how it goes. I'll carb up on thursday, then go on ketosis the 7 days and fast like you outlined.
Also i have another question? Would this cost me to lose muscle? I wouldn't want to lose muscle cause well...women love muscles

 

[Eric]

The diet you outlined doesn't sound to extreme to me. I can do take it haha
I'll try it for a week and see how it goes. I'll carb up on thursday, then go on ketosis the 7 days and fast like you outlined.
Also i have another question? Would this cost me to lose muscle? I wouldn't want to lose muscle cause well...women love muscles

It sounds extreme to everyone to but us

http://fitnessblackbook.com/main/starva ... -about-it/

This was under far more extreme conditions; Torture almost.

Still, the protein + fat will prevent muscle loss, as will the carb up.

 

[Salamence]

Alright thanks! i'll give it a try! im excited! I'll eat pizza tomorrow haha
Thanks man. So i'll follow the plan you outlined for a week right?

 

[Ross]

Cyclic keto.. I'm a bit iffy on it. I think it works well but ultimately I feel it slows progress. See how it works for you. Basically you wait 7 days in between ketosis to carb up for the night. Wait until around 5pm, and then eat a ton of carbs (400-500g is good, more is fine too).

Thought I might add that the body optimizes ketosis the longer it's been on it. Constant switching between ketosis and a carb loaded might mean that the ketosis isn't optimized.

Side note: I'm actually going on ketosis and a slight intermittent fast while still consuming plenty of calories to test out its effects on sleep regulation. There have been studies that prove ketosis aids in adding a higher percentage of slow-wave sleep and REM sleep into sleep architecture (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9417152).

Also note that timing of eating carbs can help with sleep. For example, a slight ingestion of carbohydrates before sleep can actually improve REM if you are ketogenic. Right now I eat some nuts before my second sleep which is focused on REM.

 

[Knight]

Cyclic keto.. I'm a bit iffy on it. I think it works well but ultimately I feel it slows progress. See how it works for you. Basically you wait 7 days in between ketosis to carb up for the night. Wait until around 5pm, and then eat a ton of carbs (400-500g is good, more is fine too).

Thought I might add that the body optimizes ketosis the longer it's been on it. Constant switching between ketosis and a carb loaded might mean that the ketosis isn't optimized.

Side note: I'm actually going on ketosis and a slight intermittent fast while still consuming plenty of calories to test out its effects on sleep regulation. There have been studies that prove ketosis aids in adding a higher percentage of slow-wave sleep and REM sleep into sleep architecture (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9417152).

Also note that timing of eating carbs can help with sleep. For example, a slight ingestion of carbohydrates before sleep can actually improve REM if you are ketogenic. Right now I eat some nuts before my second sleep which is focused on REM.

Great stuff everyone, well done on the weight loss and sharing info.
Ross, you stood out in the forums from the start and I understand you love to research sleep. Do you mind me asking why and if you've written about it before? It's interesting.

Knight

 

[Ross]

Ross, you stood out in the forums from the start and I understand you love to research sleep. Do you mind me asking why and if you've written about it before? It's interesting.

I sort of fell into researching sleep so much on accident. I was thinking about ways to get more time out of the day, and I realized that sleep was taking up a long period of time. Also knowing that I couldn't go without it to function normally, I began looking at ways to minimize sleep, to gain more time. I then became familiar with some odd sleeping schedules which didn't really work, and I finally delved into the scientific aspect of sleeping with the help of some friends at an online community called PolySoc.

I wrote a thread about it here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=935

One of the most important things to take into consideration is that you need sleep. You cannot escape it. So might as well optimize it by staying with the same schedule. Go with what works for you. Sleep schedules are very malleable, but we do need sleep, so it's useless to avoid it. Just optimize it.

 

[Salamence]

It's been about 2 weeks since i started the meal plan that Eric posted) (morning fast + exercise only one meal a day, and i have lost 12 pounds. Finally got lower than 223 pounds haha
still gonna keep going though.
Thanks alot you guys!

 

[Salamence]

Hey you guys i am still trying to lean out since i started this post.
I'm at 171 pounds ( i think i was over 200 pounds from the previous post)
I still have quite a bit of belly fat. Im thinking about going to 165 pounds or 160 at the minimum ( i don't really wanna go any lower than 160)
Lately i have been doing the Eric extreme method of weight loss
(Fasting, Green Tea Extract, Black Coffee, Lifting weights, Cardio, and super low calorie defecit which is around 1100-1200 calories sometimes less lol)
But once i hit 165 or 160 pounds i wanna just eat back at my maintenance. The question is how do i figure how many calories i need to maintain?
Do i use a BMR calculator?