To Kiss or Not to Kiss (on first date, girl refusing to come back to my place)

[Proper]

I cold approached a girl off the street the other day, and had a relatively good date with her yesterday:
- her: ~35 girl from China, good english, works in diplomatic work for UN, fairly fashionable, me: ~30 guy, fashionable, fit, fairly attractive, good job in finance
- we met for coffee
- I built some intrigue/rapport, without revealing too much about myself
- tried to disqualify myself as a boyfriend (saying I'm going to leave and travel the world in a few months, not really looking for a relationship right now because I just got out of one
- gave off a sorta sexual vibe, touching her on her inner thigh during high moments in the conversation
- we transitioned to a walk outside, and when we were near my apartment, I casually invited her up to checkout the view or watch something or listen to music or something, I forgot what
- she refused to go to my place on the first date. I didn't want to just give up, so I persisted. I asked her if she wanted to continue the walk. During this walk, I kissed her in public, and afterwards we went to grab lunch together, build more rapport, up the sexual vibe even more (talked about sex a lot more, gave her the impression that I'm fairly confident about sex)
- after lunch, I tried persisting once again to invite her to my place, she refused again. I persisted a third time, and said "cmon, just come up to my place", and she refused again, at which point I ran out of persistence energy, and couldn't feel out any way to continue persisting without seeming weird/needy. Date ended.


Question about kissing: I had already read this article on kissing, which suggests you don't do it until after she's at your place and you can escalate, because it over-provides good feelings and breaks sexual tension. Despite knowing that in the back of my mind, I kissed her on the first date in public anyway, and it didn't lead to her coming back to my place.

My rationale was: I don't want to end the first date as "platonic". I used to have that problem a lot, where girls would just feel zero sexual chemistry with me, even if we had a pretty good rapport. And afterwards, she would just want to be friends, and/or be very unlikely to go on a second date, there's this awkward feeling of "what are we really doing? If we're sort of just friends, why am I carving time out of my schedule to see this guy again 1:1".

I found that kissing her on the first date cements us as at least more than friends (ideally lover, but even boyfriend would be better than friend), and makes it more likely she'll come back for a second date.

But am I wrong here? If I didn't manage to convince her to come back to my place (or maybe she has a HARD rule against going to a guy's place on the first date), then should I kiss her or not? Is there anything else better I could have done in this situation? Maybe next time I should not kiss her, and try to construct an even more sexual vibe, and intrigue her enough to come on the second date? Maybe the "always kiss on the first date" mentality came from when I was much newer to game, and it helped me when I was terrible, but is something holding me back now?


The situation isn't a total loss, as she texted me back that she really enjoyed lunch, and she sorta agreed to come back to my place for me to cook a meal next time (although I'm still waiting for her to pick a day and confirm), so this may end up going somewhere. But I am curious of course to improve all aspects of my game, and this particular point on kissing was puzzling me after the date.

 

[Skills]

I cold approached a girl off the street the other day, and had a relatively good date with her yesterday:
- her: ~35 girl from China, good english, works in diplomatic work for UN, fairly fashionable, me: ~30 guy, fashionable, fit, fairly attractive, good job in finance
- we met for coffee
- I built some intrigue/rapport, without revealing too much about myself
- tried to disqualify myself as a boyfriend (saying I'm going to leave and travel the world in a few months, not really looking for a relationship right now because I just got out of one
- gave off a sorta sexual vibe, touching her on her inner thigh during high moments in the conversation
- we transitioned to a walk outside, and when we were near my apartment, I casually invited her up to checkout the view or watch something or listen to music or something, I forgot what
- she refused to go to my place on the first date. I didn't want to just give up, so I persisted. I asked her if she wanted to continue the walk. During this walk, I kissed her in public, and afterwards we went to grab lunch together, build more rapport, up the sexual vibe even more (talked about sex a lot more, gave her the impression that I'm fairly confident about sex)
- after lunch, I tried persisting once again to invite her to my place, she refused again. I persisted a third time, and said "cmon, just come up to my place", and she refused again, at which point I ran out of persistence energy, and couldn't feel out any way to continue persisting without seeming weird/needy. Date ended.


Question about kissing: I had already read this article on kissing, which suggests you don't do it until after she's at your place and you can escalate, because it over-provides good feelings and breaks sexual tension. Despite knowing that in the back of my mind, I kissed her on the first date in public anyway, and it didn't lead to her coming back to my place.

My rationale was: I don't want to end the first date as "platonic". I used to have that problem a lot, where girls would just feel zero sexual chemistry with me, even if we had a pretty good rapport. And afterwards, she would just want to be friends, and/or be very unlikely to go on a second date, there's this awkward feeling of "what are we really doing? If we're sort of just friends, why am I carving time out of my schedule to see this guy again 1:1".

I found that kissing her on the first date cements us as at least more than friends (ideally lover, but even boyfriend would be better than friend), and makes it more likely she'll come back for a second date.

But am I wrong here? If I didn't manage to convince her to come back to my place (or maybe she has a HARD rule against going to a guy's place on the first date), then should I kiss her or not? Is there anything else better I could have done in this situation? Maybe next time I should not kiss her, and try to construct an even more sexual vibe, and intrigue her enough to come on the second date? Maybe the "always kiss on the first date" mentality came from when I was much newer to game, and it helped me when I was terrible, but is something holding me back now?


The situation isn't a total loss, as she texted me back that she really enjoyed lunch, and she sorta agreed to come back to my place for me to cook a meal next time (although I'm still waiting for her to pick a day and confirm), so this may end up going somewhere. But I am curious of course to improve all aspects of my game, and this particular point on kissing was puzzling me after the date.

You have guys that say don't kiss then wait till you get home cause it kills tension etc... Most steam from back in the days generation x quick make outs at clubs that was common back then (this does not happen now a days a lot, very rarely).... as i said a million times kissing is about proper timing and you can do strategically in a way that does not break tension...

Your problem was not kissing, you had a girl that no matter what would not have giving it up in a first date (which a lot of girls are like that), and you keep persisting which is ok (i don't like the way you did it), but the lay was not there take a look at this article:

How to increase your chances if the lay is not there on the meet

Disclaimer.- this will be a long comprehensive post but it will totally help you big time, so read it and understand it... Most of the dudes including seducers are still living in the wrong century, or flat out they are not out there gaming or are pretty much kj, because i really don't...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[Fuck This]

I like to do a first kiss as early in the interaction as possible. It sets the "lover" tone. Usually if I build up the sexual tension through eye contact and kino, then kiss her somewhere isolated and discreet around the halfway point in the date, I'll have a pretty good indication of her interest level. Mine will be crystal clear.

I've had mixed results with bar/dancefloor kisses. Those are usually more about her showing off....

One time I had a dance floor make out refuse to come home with me, when everything in her body reaction to me said she wanted it. But her ASD and the fact she was out with her friends got in the way. I had a text from her first thing the next morning asking me if I wanted to come "hang out". I didn't follow up on that , and perhaps I should have. I was doubtful due to previous experiences where dance floor makeouts that just flat ghosted me that night.

 

[Jan]

I cold approached a girl off the street the other day, and had a relatively good date with her yesterday:
- her: ~35 girl from China, good english, works in diplomatic work for UN, fairly fashionable, me: ~30 guy, fashionable, fit, fairly attractive, good job in finance
- we met for coffee
- I built some intrigue/rapport, without revealing too much about myself
- tried to disqualify myself as a boyfriend (saying I'm going to leave and travel the world in a few months, not really looking for a relationship right now because I just got out of one
- gave off a sorta sexual vibe, touching her on her inner thigh during high moments in the conversation
- we transitioned to a walk outside, and when we were near my apartment, I casually invited her up to checkout the view or watch something or listen to music or something, I forgot what
- she refused to go to my place on the first date. I didn't want to just give up, so I persisted. I asked her if she wanted to continue the walk. During this walk, I kissed her in public, and afterwards we went to grab lunch together, build more rapport, up the sexual vibe even more (talked about sex a lot more, gave her the impression that I'm fairly confident about sex)
- after lunch, I tried persisting once again to invite her to my place, she refused again. I persisted a third time, and said "cmon, just come up to my place", and she refused again, at which point I ran out of persistence energy, and couldn't feel out any way to continue persisting without seeming weird/needy. Date ended.


Question about kissing: I had already read this article on kissing, which suggests you don't do it until after she's at your place and you can escalate, because it over-provides good feelings and breaks sexual tension. Despite knowing that in the back of my mind, I kissed her on the first date in public anyway, and it didn't lead to her coming back to my place.

My rationale was: I don't want to end the first date as "platonic". I used to have that problem a lot, where girls would just feel zero sexual chemistry with me, even if we had a pretty good rapport. And afterwards, she would just want to be friends, and/or be very unlikely to go on a second date, there's this awkward feeling of "what are we really doing? If we're sort of just friends, why am I carving time out of my schedule to see this guy again 1:1".

I found that kissing her on the first date cements us as at least more than friends (ideally lover, but even boyfriend would be better than friend), and makes it more likely she'll come back for a second date.

But am I wrong here? If I didn't manage to convince her to come back to my place (or maybe she has a HARD rule against going to a guy's place on the first date), then should I kiss her or not? Is there anything else better I could have done in this situation? Maybe next time I should not kiss her, and try to construct an even more sexual vibe, and intrigue her enough to come on the second date? Maybe the "always kiss on the first date" mentality came from when I was much newer to game, and it helped me when I was terrible, but is something holding me back now?


The situation isn't a total loss, as she texted me back that she really enjoyed lunch, and she sorta agreed to come back to my place for me to cook a meal next time (although I'm still waiting for her to pick a day and confirm), so this may end up going somewhere. But I am curious of course to improve all aspects of my game, and this particular point on kissing was puzzling me after the date.

DISCLAIMER: I'm an intermediate player and I don't want this reply to be treated as an advice. I'm sharing this as my own perspective, especially as I can identify somehow with your situation. I also ask myself the same questions (about kissing), and I also struggle with first date sex.

YOU DIDN'T TELL HER THAT YOU WILL CONTINUE RESPECTING HER IF SEX ON FIRST DATE HAPPENS

I didn't see you applying any LMR/ASD tech. In other words, you didn't communicate to her that you are a NON-JUGMENTAL person, and that you consider women who go for a first night lays RESPECTABLE, SELF-CONFIDENT AND ASSERTIVE people. You can see that by doing this, you can remove at least one of the possible reasons of her postponing sex - FEAR OF YOU JUDGING HER OF BEING A SLUT. If you didn't tell her WHAT you think about these types of girl - SHE WILL MAKE AN ASSUMPTION. Maybe he is ok with that or maybe he is a judmental asshole. She doesn't know BUT statistically speaking, men who push for first night sex - ARE JUDGMENTAL ASSHOLES. So she is RIGHT in her own logic about not taking that risk. Unless, you completely remove this risk BY COMMUNICATING THAT YOU BELIEVE THAT WOMEN WHO GO FIRST NIGHT SEX, for their own reasons, whenever they feel like - ARE RESPECTABLE, SELF-CONFIDENT AND ASSERTIVE PEOPLE.

 

[Proper]

YOU DIDN'T TELL HER THAT YOU WILL CONTINUE RESPECTING HER IF FIRST ON SEX DATE HAPPENS

Interesting, I really appreciate the insight.

I definitely handled this date in a different way than every other date beforehand. Prior to this, I focused on connection, displaying my own value, being chill, deep diving, and I very often got slotted into the boyfriend/provider role.

So this date, I focused on exuding a sexual vibe, talking about sex, disqualifying myself as a boyfriend/provider, giving the impression that I'm really good in bed. I may have gone too far in that direction without enough calibration to improve attainability.

The only bit of maybe ASD-tech, was that we somehow got on the topic of one of her previous boyfriends, who was a white guy, a hot fitness instructor, but who wasn't particularly intelligent. I asked her if the sex was good, and she said yes, and I said "sometimes, that's all you need", with a smirk. So I sort of indicated that I understand girls like sex as much as guys. I think I could have gone further at this point, and transition to saying something like "I love that you dated this guy just for sex. That's soo respectable, confident and assertive".

Definitely something to work on for the next one.