Too much / too good sex at the beginning : bad precedent danger

[lux7]

Chase talks about not doing much with a girl in the first months, and I totally agree.

A staple of this website is also that the "role" of the man seem to be that of a great orgasm giver.

Given some conditions, though, I'd take it one step further on the "bad precedent" and even put sex in that category: too much or too good or too kinky sex at the beginning can also set a precedent you might not wanna set if you expect your sex drive to diminish and/or don't wanna keep the same sex routines up.

I'll give you a real life example recently happened to me :

A few months ago before I embarked in my trip I was seeing this (beautiful) girl who was loving sex with me from the first time we met.
We also had a good fun communicaiton, but sex had the lion's share between us.
It was indeed great from the first time off.
The second time, even better. And 80% of our time was spent with sex.
From then on, she'd basically pester me to come see me and do it. One night after a big meal I said jokingly I was too full to get to it and she said only 30% jokingly "oh.. Let me know so I can go home" (same thing Chase one mentioned happened to him after a girl cooked for him and wanted her reward). Basically, she was demanding sex or she'd have no business being around me.
Another evening I had relented to her coming over but gave the condition she'd better hurry because I wanted to be in bed by midnight. I expected she wouldn't be able to meet the condition as she was with a friend.
I still don't know how she did it, but at around 11:30 she knocked at my door with a long black coat and nothing beneath it but a thong (that was fucking sexy lol). At something past midnight, right after we were done, she just quickly put her stuff on and left without even explaining how she'd managed so quickly and where did she park her friend.
And it was all great fun, but as I grew accustomed to her, her fun was more and more getting way way more than mine. So while at times I'd have been happy with one go and 10 minutes, she expected more. And all the time on top of those 10 minutes I was basically being her pleaser: my time and energies for her pleasure.

In case I wanted a relationship, you can already see how this might have become a problem in the long run.
Already in the days before I left thwarting her advances to come over was becoming and more problematic and it was more and more threatening our "relationship" (till the point she felt I was making excuses and I told her it wasn't good for us to meet this often and that dealt a big emotional blow to her, but that's another topic).

I feel indeed this is a case of too much / too good sex in the beginning: in case I wanted a relationship with this woman, every time I wanted to dial down the sex because, say, I was busy or just simply didn't want to as much as her... It would have felt to her our relationship was losing the spark, even though I'd still be attracted to her the same way.

Isn't this a typical example of a bad precedent, too much too soon?
I feel so.

 

[Franco]

lux7,

You have some good points here, and I'd like to point out that usually the first couple times I have sex with a girl that I want to see regularly, I'll usually keep the "kinky" aspect at a low level (but still make sure to at least give her a few powerful orgasms to make sure she wants to see me again). Like you mentioned, if you get super kinky and crazy at the very beginning, then there's a good chance she'll come to expect that from you regularly.

There's also a reverse side to this as well that you may not be aware of. But having really kinky sex the very first time you sleep with a girl can cause her to feel really slutty/dirty the next day. It might even be so much that she might regret letting herself be "used" that way to the point where she may not have the courage to want to see you again. In her mind, she'll feel like she was defiled, and if she doesn't really have a strong emotional attachment/connection to you at that point (besides the sex), then she might not be willing to see you again out of fear that she might be seen as too slutty by both you and those who catch wind of what happened.

These are both things worth noting; good post. =)

- Franco

 

[lux7]

True Franco, that's a good addendum.

I never stumbled upon it myself as I'm not too into kinky so far, but it certainly makes sense that could be the case with quite a few girls out there.

 

[JimmyB]

This is an interesting point. So if you want a relationship with a girl, keep it toned down in the beginning is what you're saying? I can see some sense to that because otherwise you just become a plaything. In theory it sounds nice lol, but if you want a relationship with the girl you're kind of slotting yourself as just a sex object and nothing more. Is this almost like you've gotten too good?? Like hold back at the beginning because it's too much for some girls to go 100% Casanova haha. I could see some sense in that. This is what trips me up about the whole Lover, Provider discussion because I think being too much of a lover can make it difficult to get into a solid relationship. Thoughts?

 

[lux7]

This is an interesting point. So if you want a relationship with a girl, keep it toned down in the beginning is what you're saying? I can see some sense to that because otherwise you just become a plaything. In theory it sounds nice lol, but if you want a relationship with the girl you're kind of slotting yourself as just a sex object and nothing more. Is this almost like you've gotten too good?? Like hold back at the beginning because it's too much for some girls to go 100% Casanova haha. I could see some sense in that. This is what trips me up about the whole Lover, Provider discussion because I think being too much of a lover can make it difficult to get into a solid relationship. Thoughts?

OK, you're touching two similar yet different points here:

• 1. too much / too good sex in the beginning and
  
  2. going from lover to relationship -and its challenges-.

POINT 1
On point 1., while technique certainly matters, there's also situational variables which get into it.
My example, as it sounds by reading the post, was a bit of an extreme case. Indeed the girl hadn't had an orgasm in quite a long time. And we strongly cliqued. And our relationship was mostly sex. And, even though a PUA mantra seem to be "all women are sluts", it's also true women come with different gradients of sexuality. And this woman happened to be one of those girls with high sex drive who enjoys sex a lot.
So I'd say if you stumble upon such a girl, and even more with the same circumstances as above, then the "risk" of too much / too good is even higher than usual.

I feel it's similar to what happened to a forum user here called marty :here is his "too much / too good" which made him plunge feelings first into the relationship (note: in that case it wasn't even just sex, but the whole thing which was too much too good, starting with a huge bang)

He was looking for a "fuller", "stabler" relationship though and now here's the same Marty a bit later looking for advice on how to keep her beau sexually happy after she came to expect those crazy sexy sessions and his own hunger faded a bit : sex drive exercise.

His sex drive probably didn't go overall down, it's just that it was much higher than usual in the beginning as he got carried away with the "new hot girl" emotions' feast and then went a bit below long term average as the "new hot girl" became "the usual girl".

Single instances aside though, I feel that yes, if you're looking for a stable, long and fulfilling relationship, then "easing" into the relationship should be applied to sex as well.
Ie: her orgasm is important -and so is yours if you're the kind of guy who always wants to come-, but you're not on the limelight with the remit of giving her the best time of her life.
Give a good fuck, always be willing to make her happy, but care about your happiness as well and leave room for the sex to grow as well.


POINT 2
As you probably know lover isn't just about the actual act of good sex. It's also about a sense of adventure, a sense of "prohibited", a sense of sexy "he's not gonna stop with me" and toned down BF qualities.

This website states that starting as (mostly) a lover offers easier transitioning into (adding to the mix) provider than the other way around. And while I think it's also very possible to add lover to BF, I agree the other way around is easier and probably "better" mos of the times, a big part of it because she'll get the thrill and emotions of her working and chasing you to make that relationship happen.
Yet, yes, as you point out that transition too comes with some challenges if you're too skewed into the lover (or if you painted yourself too much into the lover, even worst as you're even lying now).

 

[JimmyB]

he's not gonna stop with me

What do you mean by this?
Also, good response, thanks

 

[lux7]

he's not gonna stop with me

What do you mean by this?
Also, good response, thanks

LOL, just when you start thinking your English is mother-tongue level you get pulled back to earth realizing you still translate literally from your mother tongue .

I meant her being scared that you won't "stop your fooling around with other girls just to be with her".

Also, more on the topic of the dangers of "being too much of a lover", I remember a few mentions on this website on telling "you're just passing by in town" and I would totally NOT recommend that (IF you might want a relationship, that is).
It's like a huge nuke and it makes it very difficult to come back from.

I'm traveling around for like 5 months and always been honest about me just passing by. I even wrote it on my Tinder that I'm traveling and "can't give you anything serious".
Pure lover slot.
I've had like 41 girls.
Do you know how many girls reached out to me again in more than a mere few "hi wassup"? I can only remember 2.
Even more relevant, do you know how many contacted me again with hidden hopes of a relationship? Just one, and probably no coincidence I sounded like I liked her beyond that day of romance and told her I was going to come back.

Girls are not stupid, if you go pure lover and maybe even add you're not gonna be in town for long they know there's no chance in hell of a relationship.
And if you instead then want a relationship, you've just cornered yourself in a very awkward situation.
And worst of all, that's a situation where you now gotta backtrack and chase for that relationship and you'll look weak.

Like "hmmm hi honey, you know what... I actually might stick around in a town for a while (/ I'm not that into being single anymore / got tired of the swinger life) , should we see each other a few more times" .

BTW by reading on the comments around I think Franco here is more the kind of LTR guy and very good at blending together the different dimensions of lover and BF material.

 

[JimmyB]

That cleared a LOT up actually. The last part about "I'm not going to be around" so you get slotted as a lover, then it turns out you actually will be. It's the same as your tinder hookups - they went for it because they knew it was a fling and there's not relationship to be had.