- Joined
- May 21, 2023
- Messages
- 572
So recently, as I've been improving my fundamentals, I've noticed a big difference in reactions from girls. Changes like improving my hairstyle, upgrading my fashion, fixing my posture, working out more and building some physique, quitting pornography, and learning how to be more sexual have made a massive difference. It's night and day really.
As a result, I'm encountering more and more girls who are very attracted to me from the outset. I meet them on the first date and, from the very beginning, they're just very touchy-feely with me.
I guess it's a good problem to have, but I haven't quite calibrated how to handle these kinds of girls properly, and it's happened three times now recently that I've botched things with a girl who is like this.
Case in point:
I just had a date with a girl I met from a cold approach. She was a super cute 21 year old music student with great body, and from a very prestigious university. Really high quality. We met for coffee in the middle of the afternoon, and from the moment we met she, like the others, was very touchy-feely—holding my hands, touching my arms, poking and playing with me physically.
Thinking that responding in kind would enable me to fast-track to the bedroom, I matched her level of skinship. I was touching her hands and arms as well and putting my hands in hers, even before we’d had any kind of deep conversation, and this continued almost constantly throughout the date. Even when I just rested my hands on the table, she picked them up.
I did a bit of deep diving, but I found she was not a particularly talkative girl. She clearly preferred physical connection. I soon bounced her to another place for ice cream. We sat next to each other, continued the skinship, I had my hand on her leg, and we were massaging each other, taking turns. This place was right next to my home, and I seeded the date as I usually do. I figured verbal sexual framing wasn’t really necessary given that we already had this level of physical intimacy. Surely "it was on".
But when I went to pull her—after seeding the pull by mentioning my balcony, the beautiful sunset, and how I love to watch it while listening to music—she had a major ASD reaction. She completely flipped: “I’m not going to your place on the first date.” I tried to reassure her, telling her I wouldn’t do anything to make her uncomfortable, I just wanted to hang out, but none of it worked.
In hindsight, I realized I was trying to pour water on a fire that should never have happened. I ended up taking her back to the train station and saying goodbye. Unfortunately, it didn't end on a great note, and I think it's unlikely to be recoverable after this botched pull.
At first I was perplexed. How the hell did that happen? It seemed like it was so "on" with all that constant physical touch and proximity.
But now, after having reflected on it, I think I see it clearly. By matching her level of physical investment, I left no room for ambiguity. That triggered ASD because there was no uncertainty about what would happen if we went back to my place, and she was not ready for sex yet.
I remember a prolific coach teaching about different types of girls, and he said that with girls who are very touchy-feely, forward, and chasey, it’s best to keep a little distance and let them chase. If she really, really wants to touch you, you can let her, but only as a reward—not constantly. I really need to keep in mind the concept of operant conditioning, with all kinds of girls, but especially these kinds.
It’s like you should aim to maintain a steady distance between intimacy and aloofness. If she’s chasing you hard, give her a little distance so that she keeps chasing all the way to the bedroom. If she’s not chasing, then you get closer to arouse her and entice her to chase. But you don’t want to go too extreme in either direction until she's safely extracted somewhere private (then you can release the tension by leaning into the intimacy).
Anyway, I wanted to share this one in case other guys find it informative (or have a different take - if you think I'm wrong on this, please do chime in).
I can't complain - at least it means girls are actually chasing me now lol. Since revamping my fundamentals, my cold approach hook rate is strong. I find that I can really turn on the charm now.
For this girl, though, I'm well aware that unfortunately there’s very little chance of turning things around. Once a frame is set, it's set. That’s why frame control is SO important in seduction (I feel like if more guys understood this, we wouldn’t see 25-page threads about how to win back a girl once you've lost frame). The only correct thing to do is to learn the lesson, move on, and ensure you don’t make the same mistake twice.
From this experience, I've learned a few things:
1. Touchy-feely does not always equal sexual arousal (some girls are just really into skinship - it doesn't necessarily mean they are excited or turned on by it unless you make it exciting for them)
2. If a girl is super touchy-feely and she desires skinship, you should give it to her only as a reward for compliance in other ways (e.g. accepting sexual frames)
3. Always remember to fractionate physical touch - and do it as rewards for compliance, don't just be touching her non-stop
4. If she wants to chase you, let her chase. Withdraw a little and see how she responds. Play with the tension, don't just throw yourself to her. That's how you generate real sexual tension.
As a result, I'm encountering more and more girls who are very attracted to me from the outset. I meet them on the first date and, from the very beginning, they're just very touchy-feely with me.
I guess it's a good problem to have, but I haven't quite calibrated how to handle these kinds of girls properly, and it's happened three times now recently that I've botched things with a girl who is like this.
Case in point:
I just had a date with a girl I met from a cold approach. She was a super cute 21 year old music student with great body, and from a very prestigious university. Really high quality. We met for coffee in the middle of the afternoon, and from the moment we met she, like the others, was very touchy-feely—holding my hands, touching my arms, poking and playing with me physically.
Thinking that responding in kind would enable me to fast-track to the bedroom, I matched her level of skinship. I was touching her hands and arms as well and putting my hands in hers, even before we’d had any kind of deep conversation, and this continued almost constantly throughout the date. Even when I just rested my hands on the table, she picked them up.
I did a bit of deep diving, but I found she was not a particularly talkative girl. She clearly preferred physical connection. I soon bounced her to another place for ice cream. We sat next to each other, continued the skinship, I had my hand on her leg, and we were massaging each other, taking turns. This place was right next to my home, and I seeded the date as I usually do. I figured verbal sexual framing wasn’t really necessary given that we already had this level of physical intimacy. Surely "it was on".
But when I went to pull her—after seeding the pull by mentioning my balcony, the beautiful sunset, and how I love to watch it while listening to music—she had a major ASD reaction. She completely flipped: “I’m not going to your place on the first date.” I tried to reassure her, telling her I wouldn’t do anything to make her uncomfortable, I just wanted to hang out, but none of it worked.
In hindsight, I realized I was trying to pour water on a fire that should never have happened. I ended up taking her back to the train station and saying goodbye. Unfortunately, it didn't end on a great note, and I think it's unlikely to be recoverable after this botched pull.
At first I was perplexed. How the hell did that happen? It seemed like it was so "on" with all that constant physical touch and proximity.
But now, after having reflected on it, I think I see it clearly. By matching her level of physical investment, I left no room for ambiguity. That triggered ASD because there was no uncertainty about what would happen if we went back to my place, and she was not ready for sex yet.
I remember a prolific coach teaching about different types of girls, and he said that with girls who are very touchy-feely, forward, and chasey, it’s best to keep a little distance and let them chase. If she really, really wants to touch you, you can let her, but only as a reward—not constantly. I really need to keep in mind the concept of operant conditioning, with all kinds of girls, but especially these kinds.
It’s like you should aim to maintain a steady distance between intimacy and aloofness. If she’s chasing you hard, give her a little distance so that she keeps chasing all the way to the bedroom. If she’s not chasing, then you get closer to arouse her and entice her to chase. But you don’t want to go too extreme in either direction until she's safely extracted somewhere private (then you can release the tension by leaning into the intimacy).
Anyway, I wanted to share this one in case other guys find it informative (or have a different take - if you think I'm wrong on this, please do chime in).
I can't complain - at least it means girls are actually chasing me now lol. Since revamping my fundamentals, my cold approach hook rate is strong. I find that I can really turn on the charm now.
For this girl, though, I'm well aware that unfortunately there’s very little chance of turning things around. Once a frame is set, it's set. That’s why frame control is SO important in seduction (I feel like if more guys understood this, we wouldn’t see 25-page threads about how to win back a girl once you've lost frame). The only correct thing to do is to learn the lesson, move on, and ensure you don’t make the same mistake twice.
From this experience, I've learned a few things:
1. Touchy-feely does not always equal sexual arousal (some girls are just really into skinship - it doesn't necessarily mean they are excited or turned on by it unless you make it exciting for them)
2. If a girl is super touchy-feely and she desires skinship, you should give it to her only as a reward for compliance in other ways (e.g. accepting sexual frames)
3. Always remember to fractionate physical touch - and do it as rewards for compliance, don't just be touching her non-stop
4. If she wants to chase you, let her chase. Withdraw a little and see how she responds. Play with the tension, don't just throw yourself to her. That's how you generate real sexual tension.
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