Transition To Deep-Dive After Approach

[NarrowJ]

My approaches generally look like this:

1 Direct opener
2 Light banter, build rapport
3 Watch for indicator of emotional crest
4 Offer date, get number
5 Banter, get a "promise" that she will respond when I text
6 Tell her I'm busy and have to go


All of this takes between 5-10 minutes and seems to work pretty well. However, everything I've read regarding day game is that I need to deep dive, to make the interaction memorable and make her feel a connection. How do you guys transition from banter and building rapport to deep diving after an approach? If you just blurt out "so what are your goals and dreams and aspirations?" she'll think you're some kind of weirdo. I have tried "So what do you do when you're not at the mall/store/etc picking up boys?" (chase frame/attempt to transition) and that has gotten me a few odd reactions, although it's worked a few times too.

Would be interested in hearing what some of you advanced guys do here!
NJ

 

[Richard]

J, great question, and luckily, transitioning into a deep dive isn't that hard, it takes a little wit to do, but you should be able to use the light banter to flow into a deep dive. Check out my recent post on what I call "Singular Flow," which is as a summation is where you follow up your opening with something that directly ties in to either your opening/ her reaction / the environment around you.
Anyway, what I like to do is resort to the essential 3 questions Light taught me about which are:
1) Do you travel?
2) Do you enjoy your job?
3) What do you do in your spare times when you're not hanging out at a bar? (replace bar with surrounding environment)
These 3 questions allow you to gauge her because if she likes to travel, she is adventurous and open to change as well as spontaneous exploration (a good sign for you).

If she doesn't enjoy her job, you'll find out what her real aspirations are, if she hates her job ask her what her ideal choice would be. However, if she does like her job ask her if that's what she wants to do forever because it shows her ambition, and once you've found out what she's truly ambitious about, definitely relate to it as it provides a great deal of connection (implicitly of course).

When she tells you what she does in her spare time, you also find out more about her aspirations, or her morals ( I guess you would call them that) because, if she attends yoga class, she is likely to be a person who values her health and physique, and is active, then, you could further connect with her by showing an interest in it like "Awesome! I hit the gym twice a week but never tried yoga, I'd like to though, would you recommend it?"

J, it's best for you to establish questions like these which unconsciously give you a vast amount of information according to her answers because they don't come off as creepy, and when you sk a girl questions like these, it feels natural because you're asking a seemingly simple question after light banter (which relieves pressure on her end), but her answers allow you to deep dive based on her responses.

Chase also has a series of 8 questions you should ask a woman, but, I've narrowed it down to the 5 most important, three are listed above, and the last two questions that Chase recommends, and that find most worthwhile in information are, "What do you think of me so far," and follow up with "And is that good?" because it gauges her level of interest, and shows you where you're at in the conversation/seduction/ whatever it may be. When you ask her what she thinks of you, anything she lists as good, you'll want to amplify them by talking about them further, and the things she doesn't mention that you did mention you'll want to avoid them.
-Enjoy, and if you have any more questions, feel free to reply,
Richard (Deep diving and transitioning is my favorite =D)

 

[NarrowJ]

The problem I have with asking specific questions is that they rarely pin anything down that she is passionate about. For instance, you ask her if she likes to travel and she says "not really", then I ask "do you enjoy your job?" and she says "no I hate it". This establishes a negative tone. Further, even if she says yes, it doesnt mean she is deeply passionate about it, just means she likes it is all. I would like to find a way to probe, to find out what she DOES like and attack it that way instead. I'll never know what her most driving passions are by guessing.

Oh, and the asking a girl "So what do you think of me so far?" I love asking girls that haha! I like to reach out and grab her hand and hold it gently with both of my hands as I ask this question. You are not going to get a bad reaction if you're touching her this way. I just had a date last week where I asked her this very question and she got all nervous and was like "oh well I like you, I mean I don't want to give you too much here. I can't just spill it all. But yes, I like you and definitely want to go out again". Fun stuff!

NJ

 

[Richard]

Ah okay, it seems like a slight problem you may be having is you're not able to fully interpret her answers to read her desire, most of the time, a girl will not outright tell you what she truly wants, it's up to you to determine that from a series of questions (usually the 3 questions Light uses,) the different combinations of yes's and no's are all clues to who she is deep down, and to what she desires deep down. Also, when a girl answers the 3 essential questions with all no's like:
- "I don't like to travel,"
- "I hate my job."
and " I don't go to the bar much, I'm not in social places like that,"
then there is hope because everyone has something they are passionate about, and everyone has a desire, if a girl answers no to the 3 questions, it means that she wants:
LOVE AND A RELATIONSHIP: You will especially notice this more and more if she talks about friends and family alot after or while she is saying no to the 3 essential questions.
And as I said, the questions you ask shouldn't be taken at face-value, a girl will reveal herself to you without even knowing based on her responses alone, it's up to you to interpret her answers to probe for who she is. Again, take a look at my recent post on "singular flow," and "jumpy flow," you'll never want to move from one question directly to the next, you need a bridge between the two, it should never be:
" Do you like to travel?"
" No, not really?"
"Do you enjoy your job?"
It should never be like this, you should follow a singular flow of conversation and stay on the subject of traveling to deep dive, if she doesn't like to travel then ask what she does like to do, or challenge her with something like "Really, there are no beautiful places in the world that spark your arousal?"
If you're interested, check out my recent article post:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2447

If you need anything else, feel free to post or pm me,
Richard =)

 

[NarrowJ]

You're talking about re-threading a conversation vs not, which is covered in Chase's article "How To Become A Conversationalist". I highly recommend that article, if you have not read it. Knowing when to re-thread a conversation is key, and is but a small portion of the content. Great read.

So, I know the textbook ways on how to do this. You probably read in my original post that I have ways that I transition to a deep dive, and they use the fundamentals that Chase teaches. I am really wanting to hear some advanced methods, or at least some "custom solutions", if you will, that follow the basic principles but might be something different that I can use. I'd like to take some specific examples, field test them, and tailor them to my style for my own needs.

So I guess what I'm looking for is examples from multiple people, just to get a gauge on HOW some of the more advanced guys do it, and not WHAT to do. I already know the basic "re-thread if topic isn't interesting to her" type of stuff.

NJ

 

[Richard]

I gotcha, but honestly, there isn't a set number of questions someone can tell you to use to get the results you're looking for. I forgot where, but in Chase's eBook I believe anyway, in his prologue he poses the question "what do you want out of this," or something like that, and later, about mid-way through the book, he talks about creating screening questions to find out how compatible a girl is with you, and you have to do the same for deep diving. I know for me, I created my deep dive questions based on the fundamentals and basics as you've said, but I created them as I went along, I finely crafted them to suit my needs with women, and I suggest you do the same.
Logically think about a few questions and field test them, and record your results, then tweak, edit, revise, or throw out as you see fit

 

[NarrowJ]

Right. I'm not looking for the "perfect" set of questions. Just some good examples, so I can see what it looks like.

I have thought of my own, believe me. But I think I can do better.

NJ

 

[Richard]

Well, let's see what kinds of questions you've come up with so far.

 

[ProblemSolving]

Hey NJ,

In my experience, a "connection" and deep diving isn't necessary during the approach. I save deep diving for the first date where a connection is needed before intimacy.

For my approaches, I just assume she already finds me attractive, so the only thing I need to accomplish is to make her feel comfortable. I do that by pretty much doing exactly what you already do:

1) Open
2) Light banter (5-10mins), getting to know her (the more info she invests, the better)
3) Qualify her by getting her number or date at high point

A light 5-10 minute conversation is all that's required to kill her "stranger danger" response and then she'll be very much looking forward to meeting your sexy ass. You already have success without deep diving during the approach, so why add more steps?

 

[NarrowJ]

Hey NJ,

In my experience, a "connection" and deep diving isn't necessary during the approach. I save deep diving for the first date where a connection is needed before intimacy.

For my approaches, I just assume she already finds me attractive, so the only thing I need to accomplish is to make her feel comfortable. I do that by pretty much doing exactly what you already do:

1) Open
2) Light banter (5-10mins), getting to know her (the more info she invests, the better)
3) Qualify her by getting her number or date at high point

A light 5-10 minute conversation is all that's required to kill her "stranger danger" response and then she'll be very much looking forward to meeting your sexy ass. You already have success without deep diving during the approach, so why add more steps?

ProblemSolving:

Yes, what I've been doing has been working fine. But, I keep reading about daygame and how if you form a connection (deep dive) during the initial interaction it will (1) make her much more likely to answer when you do text and (2) increase the probability of getting intimate on the first date. There's a thread over on Tactics & Techniques that discusses deep diving during the approach, but he doesn't go into specifics on how to get there.

Complete Daygame Guide: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=799