Here's my second FR.
Chronologically the 1st date with this chick happened 1 week later than the one in my previous FR:
www.skilledseducer.com
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I opened her in a park, she was walking slowly. This was my first approach of the session. So my state was very bad, I mostly wanted to do an approach to improve my state a little...
I did a pretty basic direct opener "Hello, I just saw you and find you cute, so I want to say hi". She was older than I thought (it turned out she is 37).
I talked a bit about her T-shirt, then I switched to her job. I was akward and embarassed. The quality of the conversation was really poor. I didn't find many things to say.
I didn't notice a hook point, I don't remember her asking me any questions... I still told her some stuff about me.
After 2 or 3 minutes I wanted to eject to end all this akwardness. I went for the number close:
Me: I have to go, but maybe we could drink something at another time
Her: I will leave tomorrow for ten days
I was thinking this was a polite way to decline. I almost said goodbye at this point. But, without too much conviction, I added:
Me: Well, then we could do that when your are back
Her: Ok
Turned out she liked me despite the weakness of the conversation and no apparent hook point.
Usually when I am confident with quality the interaction, I just send "It was nice meeting you XXX, Winston" one hour later.
But since I knew the interaction was rather bad, I added something:
"Happy to have meet you XXX, Winston"
"You must have found the conversation quite confusing :°D"
She quickly answered with a smiley face and:
"yes a little bit"
"but it is never easy to approach someone"
I answered:
"Exacly! Thank you for your indulgence
"
"I'll be more talkative when we have a drink"
She answered :
" "
Then I didn't send her anything for 10 days because I knew she wasn't in the city. After 10 days:
"Hi XXX, are you back in the city these days?"
Then ensued a conversation where we sorted out the logistic details to set up the date.
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The last message was the Thursday, the date was set up for the Friday at 19:00, at a bar near where she lived (which was convenient for me also)
The Friday I didn't send her anything (I should have), I just show up at 19:00, sending something like "I am here" "I have a white shirt" (I tell that to make easier for the girls to recognize me because myself I am not totally confident I will recognize easily the girl after the initial interaction, so I think this is probably the same for girls. Whatsapp profile pictures are helpful for that though).
She showed up at 19h15. Telling me that since she had not heard from me today she wasn't sure the date was still on. She was still prepared for a date though (not sexy, but classy, having necklace, earrings...). So since she lives 5 minutes away, I assume she was prepared just in case lol.
"Well the important is that you are here now... and you have a nice necklace."
Since a big mystake in many previous dates was to let the girls set up a frame "let's talk about random topics and just be friends", I wanted to give a compliment at the beginning to set up a "dating frame" right from the start.
We order a drink glass of wine, the conversation went well.
We talk a bit about the approach:
"Since you are here, I asume you liked me, at least a little bit." In my head it was always the same idea of maintaining a "dating frame".
She didn't answered and just look at her glass. But I think this was good.
Maybe I was smiling too much while saying it due to a lack of confidence, the effect would probably more powerful with a better/more confident delivery. I could even drop the "a least a little bit" once I feel more confident.
We ordered another one, then a third one. She also wanted to eat something, so we ordered some food that we can shared.
Her: "We should have ordered a bottle, it would have been less expensive"
Me: "Yes but at the beginning I didn't know it would go so well"
I told DHV stories about professionnal success/social proof, it works well because she heard about some people/small celebrity I dropped the name of.
But I find there is a thin line between "DHV with professionnal success" and "setting up provider frame". I think there was not problem with this girl, but I will talk about it more in an incoming FR, where I think it played a bigger role.
The bill came, I pay all of it even if it was a bit expensive with all the drinks and food. I find it uncalibrated to talk about success and not pay all the bill (afterwards she took care of the cocktails in the second venue, so this seems fine to me).
I plan to go for the kiss in the street and say goodbye to her. It was 22h00, and the date was going on for 3 hours. But when we waited for the bill, she asked me what I plan to do after. I understood that if she asked me that, this was because she want to keep the date going.
Then we walked aimlessly in the street, while we were walking side by side, I quickly said "Wait a minute", put my hands around her waist, and go for the kiss. She comply but then she quickly, and a bit playfully, withdrew So this was just a small kiss with the lips. And she asked me about the initial approach: Is this something you do often?
In my previous FR "An eventful date", the girl also brought this subject once we were kissing. So this is a recurring pattern.
My current understanding is that this is a kind of shit-test that they threw when things start to get explicitly "man to woman" to understand in what kind of situation they are in.
Me: "Yes I always do that. I told you that I had a tiresome week, well it's because I have had dates every evening of the weeks."
She laughed and the subject was over.
I handled that way better than in this previous date, where I gave a logical explanation, where I had been too much transparent about my endeavors, and therefore probably lowered my perceived value, and where I killed all the perceived intrigue and magic related to the initial meeting.
I joke a bit about her inviting me at her place since she lived nearby, but she prefered to keep searching for another bar.
After walking maybe 20 minutes, we find a cool 2nd venue where we sat side by side and ordered cocktails. I was a bit worry that the vibe would go down because we were together for a long time and have already talked about many subjects. But even if the dynamic was going down slightly, it was still ok. Several times I held eyes contact while looking at ther, she looked away first. I understood the vibe was still flirty and that I was doing the right thing with my eyes contact. We were taking about cultural/art stuff, she seems impressed by my knowledge of certain things. At some point she looked at her watch: "Wow it's already midnight, time has fly!".
In front of her building, I joked again that she could invite me to drink something. She refused, we kissed goodbye on the cheeks. Then I go again for a kiss on the lips, she again only slightly comply, but withdrew quickly, a bit playfully. I grab dominantly her chin with one hand, pull her face closer to me, and kiss her better on her lips. I think she liked this dominant move.
We were in front of her building, but she insisted to accompany me to my subway station (it was only 2 minutes away). In front of my subway station, she told me that she has a very small appartment.
I understood that maybe she didn't invite me at her place because she was a bit ashamed of her apartment. If I had had this information earlier, I would have tried to pull her at my place instead of trying to go at hers.
While writing this I am telling myself that maybe it was still possible to pull her at my place at this point, but in my head I was already in the metro and the date was over. I just thought that her refusal to invite me meant she didn't want to fuck that night. In the moment I wasn't able to connect the dots quickly
I am not 100% sure of remembering correctly, but I think while walking to my subway station she asked me if I was going to meet friends or going back at home and what were my plans for tomorrow (so maybe she was hoping for a pull...). But again, I didn't connect the dots in the moment.
-----------------------------------------------------
I pinged her 4 days later, she answered quickly. We talk about our schedules. I understood there was an opportunity to set up the 2nd date the coming Saturday. So I invited her at my place to eat something that I would cook.
I won't go into as much details with this date.
She brought a bottle of wine, we drank the aperitif on my balcony, then I cooked something quickly, we ate on my balcony. We were sitting face to face.
I did way too much comfort/rapport, talking about very personnal things with her, never teasing or challenging her.
I think the vibe was still good and she that was still on after 1 hour of this. But after 1h30-2 hours of this shit, this was over, she was off.
When we were done eating I tried to change gears. I put some music. And I told her to come sit on my sofa.
I think this was too obvious and feel unnatural to her.
When she was sitting on my sofa next to me said:
Her: it is difficult to know what you are thinking.
Me: What do you think I am thinking?
Her: I think you are thinking about kissing me.
Me: Let's see what happen if I try
And... she turned her head. Saying she was sorry but she had a bad day.
I tried to look detached and unaffected. Deep down I knew the vibe wasn't good anymore so I wasn't surprised, just disappointed that this wasn't going to happen.
I asked her what was her plans for tomorrow, she told me she hadn't any plan because she didn't know how this evening would go (which means before coming she thought about fucking and spending the night with me. But this whole never ending comfort conversation, without any seduction, turn her off). I tried to speak about random stuff, but this didn't work.
She quickly left after a few more minutes, sending me right away a message that she is sorry to be gone so quickly, but was tired because she had a bad day.
I never answered anything.
----------------------------------------------------
I think my main mistakes were:
During the 1st date:
Not trying to pull her at my place. I stubbornly tried two times to make her invite me at hers, because we were only a few minutes away. Without understanding she might not be comfortable with the size of her apartment (especially after I bragged about professionnal success...)
During the 2nd date:
- doing only comfort and no attraction/no teasing/no challenge while at my place
- not doing a progressive escalation at my place. I did comfort only while we ate, then after we are done with eating I suddenly changed gear by trying to kiss her.
The sex would have probably sounded too obvious/too sequential for her. I think what I subcommunicated was "So we have eaten, now let's fuck", which was the plan in my head, but this was a bad plan.
Any feedback is appreciated.
Chronologically the 1st date with this chick happened 1 week later than the one in my previous FR:
FR - An eventful 1st date
So let's start with my first FR. I opened this girls in a library, she had her hands full of books and was looking for another one. I looked at the same book shelf next to her, and opened: Excuse me, you seem to know literature well, do you have a book to recommend me? I am looking for an...
www.skilledseducer.com
I opened her in a park, she was walking slowly. This was my first approach of the session. So my state was very bad, I mostly wanted to do an approach to improve my state a little...
I did a pretty basic direct opener "Hello, I just saw you and find you cute, so I want to say hi". She was older than I thought (it turned out she is 37).
I talked a bit about her T-shirt, then I switched to her job. I was akward and embarassed. The quality of the conversation was really poor. I didn't find many things to say.
I didn't notice a hook point, I don't remember her asking me any questions... I still told her some stuff about me.
After 2 or 3 minutes I wanted to eject to end all this akwardness. I went for the number close:
Me: I have to go, but maybe we could drink something at another time
Her: I will leave tomorrow for ten days
I was thinking this was a polite way to decline. I almost said goodbye at this point. But, without too much conviction, I added:
Me: Well, then we could do that when your are back
Her: Ok
Turned out she liked me despite the weakness of the conversation and no apparent hook point.
Usually when I am confident with quality the interaction, I just send "It was nice meeting you XXX, Winston" one hour later.
But since I knew the interaction was rather bad, I added something:
"Happy to have meet you XXX, Winston"
"You must have found the conversation quite confusing :°D"
She quickly answered with a smiley face and:
"yes a little bit"
"but it is never easy to approach someone"
I answered:
"Exacly! Thank you for your indulgence
""I'll be more talkative when we have a drink"
She answered :
"
"Then I didn't send her anything for 10 days because I knew she wasn't in the city. After 10 days:
"Hi XXX, are you back in the city these days?"
Then ensued a conversation where we sorted out the logistic details to set up the date.
------------------------------------------------------
The last message was the Thursday, the date was set up for the Friday at 19:00, at a bar near where she lived (which was convenient for me also)
The Friday I didn't send her anything (I should have), I just show up at 19:00, sending something like "I am here" "I have a white shirt" (I tell that to make easier for the girls to recognize me because myself I am not totally confident I will recognize easily the girl after the initial interaction, so I think this is probably the same for girls. Whatsapp profile pictures are helpful for that though).
She showed up at 19h15. Telling me that since she had not heard from me today she wasn't sure the date was still on. She was still prepared for a date though (not sexy, but classy, having necklace, earrings...). So since she lives 5 minutes away, I assume she was prepared just in case lol.
"Well the important is that you are here now... and you have a nice necklace."
Since a big mystake in many previous dates was to let the girls set up a frame "let's talk about random topics and just be friends", I wanted to give a compliment at the beginning to set up a "dating frame" right from the start.
We order a drink glass of wine, the conversation went well.
We talk a bit about the approach:
"Since you are here, I asume you liked me, at least a little bit." In my head it was always the same idea of maintaining a "dating frame".
She didn't answered and just look at her glass. But I think this was good.
Maybe I was smiling too much while saying it due to a lack of confidence, the effect would probably more powerful with a better/more confident delivery. I could even drop the "a least a little bit" once I feel more confident.
We ordered another one, then a third one. She also wanted to eat something, so we ordered some food that we can shared.
Her: "We should have ordered a bottle, it would have been less expensive"
Me: "Yes but at the beginning I didn't know it would go so well"
I told DHV stories about professionnal success/social proof, it works well because she heard about some people/small celebrity I dropped the name of.
But I find there is a thin line between "DHV with professionnal success" and "setting up provider frame". I think there was not problem with this girl, but I will talk about it more in an incoming FR, where I think it played a bigger role.
The bill came, I pay all of it even if it was a bit expensive with all the drinks and food. I find it uncalibrated to talk about success and not pay all the bill (afterwards she took care of the cocktails in the second venue, so this seems fine to me).
I plan to go for the kiss in the street and say goodbye to her. It was 22h00, and the date was going on for 3 hours. But when we waited for the bill, she asked me what I plan to do after. I understood that if she asked me that, this was because she want to keep the date going.
Then we walked aimlessly in the street, while we were walking side by side, I quickly said "Wait a minute", put my hands around her waist, and go for the kiss. She comply but then she quickly, and a bit playfully, withdrew So this was just a small kiss with the lips. And she asked me about the initial approach: Is this something you do often?
In my previous FR "An eventful date", the girl also brought this subject once we were kissing. So this is a recurring pattern.
My current understanding is that this is a kind of shit-test that they threw when things start to get explicitly "man to woman" to understand in what kind of situation they are in.
Me: "Yes I always do that. I told you that I had a tiresome week, well it's because I have had dates every evening of the weeks."
She laughed and the subject was over.
I handled that way better than in this previous date, where I gave a logical explanation, where I had been too much transparent about my endeavors, and therefore probably lowered my perceived value, and where I killed all the perceived intrigue and magic related to the initial meeting.
I joke a bit about her inviting me at her place since she lived nearby, but she prefered to keep searching for another bar.
After walking maybe 20 minutes, we find a cool 2nd venue where we sat side by side and ordered cocktails. I was a bit worry that the vibe would go down because we were together for a long time and have already talked about many subjects. But even if the dynamic was going down slightly, it was still ok. Several times I held eyes contact while looking at ther, she looked away first. I understood the vibe was still flirty and that I was doing the right thing with my eyes contact. We were taking about cultural/art stuff, she seems impressed by my knowledge of certain things. At some point she looked at her watch: "Wow it's already midnight, time has fly!".
In front of her building, I joked again that she could invite me to drink something. She refused, we kissed goodbye on the cheeks. Then I go again for a kiss on the lips, she again only slightly comply, but withdrew quickly, a bit playfully. I grab dominantly her chin with one hand, pull her face closer to me, and kiss her better on her lips. I think she liked this dominant move.
We were in front of her building, but she insisted to accompany me to my subway station (it was only 2 minutes away). In front of my subway station, she told me that she has a very small appartment.
I understood that maybe she didn't invite me at her place because she was a bit ashamed of her apartment. If I had had this information earlier, I would have tried to pull her at my place instead of trying to go at hers.
While writing this I am telling myself that maybe it was still possible to pull her at my place at this point, but in my head I was already in the metro and the date was over. I just thought that her refusal to invite me meant she didn't want to fuck that night. In the moment I wasn't able to connect the dots quickly
I am not 100% sure of remembering correctly, but I think while walking to my subway station she asked me if I was going to meet friends or going back at home and what were my plans for tomorrow (so maybe she was hoping for a pull...). But again, I didn't connect the dots in the moment.
-----------------------------------------------------
I pinged her 4 days later, she answered quickly. We talk about our schedules. I understood there was an opportunity to set up the 2nd date the coming Saturday. So I invited her at my place to eat something that I would cook.
I won't go into as much details with this date.
She brought a bottle of wine, we drank the aperitif on my balcony, then I cooked something quickly, we ate on my balcony. We were sitting face to face.
I did way too much comfort/rapport, talking about very personnal things with her, never teasing or challenging her.
I think the vibe was still good and she that was still on after 1 hour of this. But after 1h30-2 hours of this shit, this was over, she was off.
When we were done eating I tried to change gears. I put some music. And I told her to come sit on my sofa.
I think this was too obvious and feel unnatural to her.
When she was sitting on my sofa next to me said:
Her: it is difficult to know what you are thinking.
Me: What do you think I am thinking?
Her: I think you are thinking about kissing me.
Me: Let's see what happen if I try
And... she turned her head. Saying she was sorry but she had a bad day.
I tried to look detached and unaffected. Deep down I knew the vibe wasn't good anymore so I wasn't surprised, just disappointed that this wasn't going to happen.
I asked her what was her plans for tomorrow, she told me she hadn't any plan because she didn't know how this evening would go (which means before coming she thought about fucking and spending the night with me. But this whole never ending comfort conversation, without any seduction, turn her off). I tried to speak about random stuff, but this didn't work.
She quickly left after a few more minutes, sending me right away a message that she is sorry to be gone so quickly, but was tired because she had a bad day.
I never answered anything.
----------------------------------------------------
I think my main mistakes were:
During the 1st date:
Not trying to pull her at my place. I stubbornly tried two times to make her invite me at hers, because we were only a few minutes away. Without understanding she might not be comfortable with the size of her apartment (especially after I bragged about professionnal success...)
During the 2nd date:
- doing only comfort and no attraction/no teasing/no challenge while at my place
- not doing a progressive escalation at my place. I did comfort only while we ate, then after we are done with eating I suddenly changed gear by trying to kiss her.
The sex would have probably sounded too obvious/too sequential for her. I think what I subcommunicated was "So we have eaten, now let's fuck", which was the plan in my head, but this was a bad plan.
Any feedback is appreciated.
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