Value vs. attainability

[Marty]

Hey guys:

I have a few questions on distinguishing value problems from attainability ones:

- Is there a good test to tell apart a value issue from an attainability issue?

- If I am unable to make eye contact before opening, that is a value problem, correct?

- If younger women (<24) are generally less receptive and older ones (25-35) give me an easier ride, in spite of their greater experience, that is also a value problem, correct?

- If I suspect I have a value problem, am I stuck with it or can I act to correct/compensate for it?

- What pointers do you have on dealing with a value problem?

Thanks
Marty

 

[Estate]

Can you give more detail Marty? I'm not sure I really get the real problem here. Value or how people perceive your value comes from a lot of things so I feel like you need to pinpoint the area you feel your value is being perceived as low in order to address it.

On eye contact. There's two sides of the coin on whether you should or shouldn't. In the end it doesn't matter HUGELY. It's going to be determined by outside factors. Check out Chases' article where he mentions pre-opening. Eye contact doesn't even come into it. On the other hand some guys like to establish eye contact and show some confidence up front. There's really too many outside factors for it to be a huge issue in isolation.

On younger women, are we talking about their value or yours?
Younger girls are often not looking to settle down. If we're talking about just hooking up they can sometimes be easier if you are positioning yourself as the "lover". Older women may give you an easier ride if you are positioning yourself as BF material if the woman in question is more open to finding a guy. But again there's too many variables.

If you generally lack value in some areas of like or some situations then you need to pin-point what they are, then you can address them. You're not "stuck" with anything. So lets figure it out, how exactly do you feel you lack value or in what areas?

 

[Marty]

Hey Estate,

Nice one. By asking these follow-up questions, you've actually forced me to answer a lot myself. Thanks!

Younger girls are often not looking to settle down. If we're talking about just hooking up they can sometimes be easier if you are positioning yourself as the "lover". Older women may give you an easier ride if you are positioning yourself as BF material if the woman in question is more open to finding a guy. But again there's too many variables.

This kinda leads me to conclude that I lack "lover value", something I already suspected. I don't know whether that can be corrected in any way, or do I just have to work around it somehow? Makes sense—young girls push back hard (though courteously). Women nearer my own age are initially receptive, but shut me down pronto if I start doing any "boyfriend-disqualification" stuff.

I actually met a girl on the street once, saw her looking at me in my peripheral, opened her spontaneously upon noticing this; she looked about 22. Turns out she was nearer 35. Lithuanian, looked just like Eva Green (Vesper Lynd from Casino Royale) but in my opinion prettier still. A real stunner. She went on a date with me but then cut me off totally, and I mean literally never spoke to me or texted me again, on account of my "non-boyfriend" candidacy.

Eye contact doesn't even come into it.

Allow me to explain. Sometimes I get women looking at me, which I notice peripherally, as just described above with the Lithuanian girl. I've got my opening worked out pretty well in this case. But this afternoon I walked around a grocery store full of sub-22 college chicks and not one of them looked at me once. I could just tell they'd be unreceptive to being opened. If as you say they are "not looking to settle down", but potentially open to "hooking up", then again I conclude I lack "lover value". Unsurprisingly, I want to fix this, if that is indeed possible! ;-)

-Marty

 

[Zoro]

Heya Marty, at your request I'll put my two cents in...

First of all, I basically followed Chase's advice on fundamentals to the bone.
His recent post called "What's the difference between a Lover and a Loser?" fleshes out the importance of fundamentals and tons of links to the other articles on fundamentals where I got advice on this topic myself.

I'm deferring you to Chase's article so you can skip the middle man and get it straight from the beast's mouth.

I just unloaded a lot of reading on you so to give some things you can do right away...

Get fit (http://scoobysworkshop.com/ <- this guy knows his stuff)
Get yourself a sexy haircut.
Groom that facial hair
Get some clothes that properly fit you.
Get some boss shoes. http://www.zara.com/us/en/man/shoes-c269239.html
Work on your posture. Even when you are alone. Yoga helps with this.
Eye contact. This can be tricky to balance sexy from intimidating. A tip would be have curiosity, when it starts getting too much inspect the eye. Your facial expression goes from hard to inquisitive and now you can mention her deep green eyes you just noticed.

This kind of value you can show off without worrying being slotted into boyfriend/friendly zone. The other kind of value just keep to yourself and be mysterious.

That being said having a passion/serious hobby helps your vibe and identifying a style.

If after digesting all that and you have further questions, I'll be happy to answer.

Also a little off this topic specifically but I'd recommend The Art of Seduction by Robert Greene. Still reading it myself and so far so good.

 

[Marty]

Get fit (http://scoobysworkshop.com/ <- this guy knows his stuff)
Get yourself a sexy haircut.
Groom that facial hair
Get some clothes that properly fit you.
Get some boss shoes. http://www.zara.com/us/en/man/shoes-c269239.html
Work on your posture. Even when you are alone. Yoga helps with this.
Eye contact. This can be tricky to balance sexy from intimidating. A tip would be have curiosity, when it starts getting too much inspect the eye. Your facial expression goes from hard to inquisitive and now you can mention her deep green eyes you just noticed.

Thanks J Wick. That's the funny thing. I've done all that. I don't have huge muscles but I have a very slim and athletic frame and a good masculine upper body with minimal bodyfat. Fashion and fit I'm very particular about, including footwear, always have been, and I'm confident with eye contact. I don't get much feedback either way about my stubble but I think it looks okay. Posture is the only one I'm conscious could be better.

I feel like my process at least with the opening through number close is pretty much okay, it's not so much what I do, it's how I come across. Maybe too sincere and naive, though confident. I've been told I'm a good actor, the trouble is, I'm not sure whom or what to imitate. Because I'm not into men, I really have no idea what's sexy ;-)

 

[Zoro]

Posture is huge! Perhaps the most important of them. Imagine a homeless man standing tall with a strong presence and body language next to a man well dressed and in a slump with his neck craned.

My father is a chiropractor so I had someone policing my posture while growing up. I have learned to always sit up straight, whether its driving, sitting in class, even being tired. My back is strong from all that and its easy!

As for your process I suggest you keep at it and flesh out some more specifics that we can work on. We're here for you Marty!

I have to admit that I am struggling with approach anxiety still. So you should to take my advice with that knowledge.

Although the attraction I am getting is undeniable, I am capitalizing on none of it by my own effort, unless I get approached or the setting is just right.

 

[Zoro]

I came across this concerning posture/presence.

This is a photo of a homeless man who had such a presence photographers would shoot him often enough that he became famous.

http://www.2dayblog.com/images/2010/mar ... onicon.jpg

If you want more info on that just google Chinese homeless man becomes famous

There is also the case of the homeless man with a "golden voice" who got a job as a radio host. Fundamentals mean business!

 

[Marty]

J Wick, that is swell! That guy looks a total badass. I've been working hard on posture last few days... I'm conscious I can do better. Shoulders back, chest puffed out... and the crucial one for me: chin up! That's it, boy!