Vibe stuff

[Byron]

This has been churning about in my mind for a while.
My best friend is a natural, and has slept with more girls than I have. He's very popular, whilst I'm not, but I'm always very conscious of providing value (and I'm more of a lover, before I got a girlfriend I was sleeping with more girls per month than him, I've got Girlschase to help )
But when Chase said there are three elements to vibe, Playful, Masculine, and Sexual, it really made me analyze the differences between us.

He is one of the manliest guys I know. I am bigger than him, more ripped too, and he is manlier. He has very short hair and is very goodlooking, and I'm almost as goodlooking (we've both been offered to model before, this isn't me bragging, and I used to be shit with girls despite my looks) and I have the long hair that Chase talks about in his article on hair length (it's shoulder length right now, and I have a moustache/goatee combo. My friend has a light beard.

But back to what I was saying. Let's say his masculinity is standout, but he's less sexual (sexy) than I am. I would say that is my standout. We both are about equally playful.

So compared to him I'm a feminine little poof.

But then I compare myself to the average guy on the street. Not even the average guy I hang out with, I'm rolling with popular crowds and other bartenders and barely hanging on socially.
But I'm muscular and do martial arts and have pretty good frame control. Compared to the average girlschase reader maybe not, but compared to the average fella, I do.

You only need one of the three to stand out.
I'm very sexual. But I'm slightly above average in masculinity, and I'm quite playful. My friend is only barely above average in sexualness or sexiness (he's very very indirect) but he is quite playful and very masculine. We get about the same results (he's just more socially calibrated than I and thus does slightly better).

I saw a thread earlier about playing your strengths.

Do that. Figure out which of the three you are best at. I've seen guys who are great at each. Playful guys get the girl, if they are still more manly and sexual than the average. Ditto with sexual or manly guys.

But shore up your weaknesses, for fucks sake.

I know this other guy, who is very socially calibrated. He is very playful, and quite sexy. But he is very feminine, without the streaks of masculinity chase mentions. He has shit frame control too. He is very popular, and managed to pull and date a really hot blonde, albeit a party girl. She dated him for a few months, but cheated on him many many times, and he knew. He stayed with her. My best friend, the manly one, slept with her twice. Her boyfriend stayed with her as she flirted with other guys right in front of him.

Don't be that guy. Shore up your fucking weaknesses, THEN focus on your strengths. I focused on sex appeal for a long time whilst ignoring the others. Playfulness comes somewhat naturally to me, but I still came across as awkward till I focused on that (with Hector's help) and lately I've been focusing on masculinity and have noticed a huge uptick in the respect and attraction I've gotten (people used to assume I was gay occasionally when I had short hair, now with long hair that never happens anymore).

Masculinity, playfulness, sexiness.

Brooding sexy is sexy and masculine, with playfulness as an afterthought but still occasionally showing up (check out Christian Grey, Damon Salvatore, or Indiana Jones/Harrison Ford, they are very manly, dark, sexual, yet have moments of wit and humor).

Smooth Sexy is primarily sexy, with masculinity and playfulness in balance I would say.

Talkativeness is playful and sexual, with masculinity there but not as prominent, yet still there. RDJ and Ryan Reynolds.

BMOC a la Hector is all three, but mainly sexual, but its the same as talkative sexy really.

Slowburn is a combo of smooth and brooding, it's sexy, masculine, and has moments of wit yet again.

Wildcard is playful, sexy and passionate, with a masculine world view (frame).

Any types are all combos of these three. It's like a cocktail, but where you can't go wrong.

I am always sexual, with moments of masculinity or playfulness. That's my combo. My friend is manly and playful, but also sexy when he chooses to show it. Hector is more playful than Chase (although really a different type of playful). Chase seems more overtly manly than Hector. They both are better in all three than my friend or I. Make your own cocktail, but don't let any slip, or you'll get fucked over like that other fella I know (unless you are out of this world good at the other two)

Work on them! Have fun!

This is more a stream of consciousness post than a helpful one, but I've wanted to get it off my chest. Curious to hear your thoughts
Byron

 

[Bboy100]

Not gonna lie, you're waay overthinking this. Instead of focusing on being "masculine", "playful", "sexy"...just worry about one thing. Do you vibe well with women? If the answer is yes, then don't worry about breaking down the types of vibes like socializing is some sort of weird math equation. If not, then understand that it's not about working on the vibe itself. Good vibes are the product of everything else being in place. So instead, I would worry about other potential causes. Namely:

1. Are you feeling anxious or some other unproductive emotional state? If so, address that.

2. Do you and the girl you're with just "not click"? If so, just move on. The point is not to fuck every girl you meet ever. It's to find the ones who are into you (and you are also into them). They will give you the greatest return on investment of time and effort.

P.S.

By this definition, I'm not very masculine AT ALL. I've literally had MULTIPLE women think I'm gay two hours before I slept with them LOL. And almost everyone who knows me has at one point or another has pointed out that I have a lot of rather feminine mannerisms. Regardless, I'm still respected by almost everyone I meet. And for the most part, women respond very well to me.

 

[Byron]

The two articles were here under subsection a):
https://www.girlschase.com/content/what-do-when-your-approach-just-isnt-working#vibe
And then in the comments section here.
https://www.girlschase.com/content/tactics-tuesdays-how-proceed-when-she-asks-you-out
Just tidbits, but they stuck in my head. He may have mentioned it a few other places, but these are what i remember.

@Bboy100
Nah, I think Chase said they should be used to troubleshoot why you aren't getting results based on the problems you are having with people. Go look at the links I put, and let me know what you think. I don't really think I'm overthinking it (although maybe I did come across that way in my post, the post was very stream-of-conscious and a lot of it came to me as I wrote it). The initial ideas came from comparing a natural friend of mine's game to my own, something I think is a very useful thought exercise, whilst having something Chase had mention in like the previous day's article in mind.

My current girlfriend is awesome, and we vibe amazingly. The girl I was referring to is the (now ex) girlfriend of an acquaintance of mine the floor below me in my dorm.

And as far as math questions, I just like to incorporate different things here and there: Johnny Depp's finger twirls, Harrison Ford's smirk, Connery's wry humor. If that makes seduction a math equation, tbh it's working pretty well for me right now. This also isn't always stuff I actively think about whilst out socialising, just stuff I try to do in day to day stuff like class.

@slay

Yeah man I was just trying to speculate, vibe is a bit more complex than just putting it in a box. To go back to the cocktail analogy, just because they are made of three ingredients doesn't mean that they'll taste at all similar. And yeah, masculine+sexy doesn't necessarily mean brooding, I was just saying when I've seen brooding sex symbols (Michael Fassbender, Brad Pitt, Harrison Ford, THe fella who plays Christian Grey) they tend to be both darkly masculine and sensual. Harrison Ford is the older sex symbol I think Chase refers to in regards to the brooding vibe. You've said one of your favourites in the past has been Sean Connery, I believe he is quite playful, and Chase did used to refer to the smooth vibe as "smooth and playful" in some of his early articles on the three types. I think he means more of a flirty chase frame vibe.

Edit: forgot to go find and post the links. whoops. just added them

B

 

[Raqimus]

Yea different vibes lead to different people. Out of the Archetypes, I'd consider myself a Wildcard, but I can play different roles and switch up my vibe, I just know how to get to that part of my personality.

For example I could be a Wildcard and I am weird, very weird. At the same time, I am playful, sexual, and I switch it up between masculine. When I'm just being myself this is how I am. I don't consciously think about the masculine/feminine I just have fun with it.

At the same time, I can be the brooding sexy or the talkative, or the smooth, or even the silent but intense guy. It depends on how I'm feeling and the environment whether I want to try something out, etc. I don't know what the whole point of the thread but it is an interesting idea to think about! Good to see you back Byron!

Oh and for example I'll wear a shirt and have my entire chest showing and no one will say shit etc, I'll be havin fun groovin to my own tune, do you! Test out different vibes to experiment tho, its fun.

Edit* Oh and if your with someone else, your vibe will change or theirs will, if they like you, to compliment, if not you just wont "vibe" lol.

 

[Hector Papi Castillo]

Bboy,

Gay =/= Unmasculine.

You're definitely rounding out your "going natural, anti-PUA" stage. It's an interesting stage and you're learning a lot and saying some cool things, but don't let it turn you into too much of an anti-mechanical guy As i pointed out, you're still doing everything technically right and speaking technically, you're just saying it in a different way. The contents, however, of what you're saying, is still the same.

Not gonna lie, you're waay overthinking this. Instead of focusing on being "masculine", "playful", "sexy"...just worry about one thing. Do you vibe well with women? If the answer is yes, then don't worry about breaking down the types of vibes like socializing is some sort of weird math equation. If not, then understand that it's not about working on the vibe itself. Good vibes are the product of everything else being in place. So instead, I would worry about other potential causes. Namely:

1. Are you feeling anxious or some other unproductive emotional state? If so, address that.

In other words, "are you being womanly and allowing your emotions to control you? If so, get more manly and control yourself" or some 10 other derivations of what might be causing your anxious/unproductive emotional state.

2. Do you and the girl you're with just "not click"? If so, just move on. The point is not to fuck every girl you meet ever. It's to find the ones who are into you (and you are also into them). They will give you the greatest return on investment of time and effort.

They're not clicking if she doesn't respect you, isn't aroused by you, and isn't similar to you; and, if you aren't attracted to her, don't find her fun enough, submissive enough, or don't think you're similar to her.

It's always some combination of the these that cause you not to work well with a girl. Saying "find the ones who are into you and vice versa" is just a broad stroke way of saying "you two fit together in X way and Y way." Neither are wrong. One is intuitive, the other is mechanical. But for you and where you're at in socializing, being intuitive is helpful and prevents you from getting "stuck in the mud," as Conor Mcgregor would say. As someone who's coached Byron a lot, he's got his intuition strongly in place and benefits from technicality. Eventually he'll hit a stage where it hurts him more than it helps him and he needs advice like "just enjoy it, man!" or something like this.

Byron,

Yes, you would benefit a lot from more cold, civilized masculinity. Harder facial expressions, more silence, less words, slower movements, more stoicism (shouldn't show any emotion except for joy, stoicism, annoyance, and anger). It's something I'm actually working on, too. You'll lose a lot of opportunities because you're more centered, but you'll be more in control and it's super super good for social circle (cold approach you need a bit more wild energy).

Keep going

Hector

 

[Byron]

@Raquimus
Good to be back

@Anatman

Yeah, I'll work on it, I think your recent article is really relevant to this. It seems to be a more kingly, alpha vibe, but I can see how it would make cold approach more difficult. Am hoping it would help for integrating into new social circles as well, something I'm trying to do with the nightlife people I'm seeing weekly right now.

Thanks guys,
Byron

 

[Bboy100]

I wanted to wait for Byron to reply so I don't Hijack his thread

Hector,

Good article! I actually hadn't thought of it in those terms. Your friend after he came out of the closet sounds a lot like me (except that I'm not actually gay. The thought of even kissing another dude kinda grosses me out. But the general gist of my behaviors are similar to his). I intuitively understood what you wrote in the article all along. But I was never really able to articulate it into words. Looks like you've already done it for me.

Also kind of reminds me of Blue Mountain State. There's an episode where one of the characters would always get in confrontations with dudes, and every time they were about to fight, he was like "I'll jerk you off! What? Yeah, that's right! I'll Jerk you off!!!" Then the other guy would always back down XD

In other words, "are you being womanly and allowing your emotions to control you? If so, get more manly and control yourself" or some 10 other derivations of what might be causing your anxious/unproductive emotional state.

Sure. I wouldn't argue with that. The point I was trying to make is that working on vibe directly like you might work an delivering an opener or work on keeping strong eye contact doesn't make sense. Your vibe will only get better as you get these other side tasks handled. Weather you want to view it as "being womanly and allowing emotions to control you" or "Feeling anxious" doesn't really matter.

They're not clicking if she doesn't respect you, isn't aroused by you, and isn't similar to you; and, if you aren't attracted to her, don't find her fun enough, submissive enough, or don't think you're similar to her.

It's always some combination of the these that cause you not to work well with a girl. Saying "find the ones who are into you and vice versa" is just a broad stroke way of saying "you two fit together in X way and Y way." Neither are wrong. One is intuitive, the other is mechanical.

Fair enough. I would say that's true. But as you'll discover, I think thinking of it that way has more drawbacks than benefits. Even for guys less experienced than me.

But for you and where you're at in socializing, being intuitive is helpful and prevents you from getting "stuck in the mud," as Conor Mcgregor would say.

Yeah. This is exactly why I don't like mechanics too much. It gets me (and probably most others) worrying about things which

1. Are very hard to fix in the moment-Ultimately, they depend mostly on how you feel, what your natural personality type is like, who you are as a person and a variety of other factors (e.g. facial expressions are difficult to micromanage. Good, relaxed facial expression is a result of feeling relaxed. Not a constant effort to maintain the appearance of relaxation).

2. They're things you learn to do unconsciously, through experience. Not through purposefully working on them - Similar to the above point...the way you really learn most the nuts and bolts is just by being in social situations. You can tell a dude how to touch a girl and when to touch her to turn her on in detail. And he can purposefully go out and work on it. But doing so is bad return on investment. It's much better to just tell him to try to touch her on high points and give him a few basic ideas of what that means and how to do it. Maybe also a brief explanation of why its important.

This will
1. Not overload him with information. If you give a guy information, he'll naturally try to get all of it right. So if its too much information (which is almost a given if you go into the nuts and bolts) he'll have too much to juggle which would actually decrease performance. Whereas if you just tell him broad stroke ideas, he'll still get the point, but he won't be overwhelmed.
2. Have almost the same effect as having spent 2 hrs talking about touch. Because really, his execution will be awful if he's never done it. And it will naturally improve at approximately the same rate regardless of weather or not he knows the nuts and bolts. The only thing that matters is that he's trying to touch women in the first place. So, your conversation makes almost no positive impact either way. The only thing you can really do to help him is to let him know that touch is necessary and he needs to start doing it if he isn't already. Anything beyond that is almost a waste of time.

Conversely, if we're talking about broad strokes or Philosophical aspects of pickup (e.g. you need to lead women)...that's something he needs to know. If he doesn't understand that leading women is important, this needs to be talked about in detail. Because if it isn't, he's kind of missing a huge part of the puzzle. And it's not something he's likely to unconsciously figure out via repetition. Its something someone needs to tell him (or he needs to consciously realize on his own. But that would defeat the purpose of coaching and feedback altogether).

If I'm right about this, then speaking in terms of broad stroke actions and Philosophies are more useful for beginners as well. If anything, I would imagine guys who are more advanced would benefit more from mechanics because the bigger concepts are second nature to them now. The only thing left for them is sanding down the rough edges.

Moreover, I think mechanics are useful in that it can be helpful to reflect on them after the fact. Then, when you go out next time, keep it in the back of your mind that you want to work on/avoid something. But it should not be something you're expanding too much conscious effort to work on. Cause a noted above, doing so will probably backfire.

Having said that...I really haven't done any coaching outside of just writing advice for people on these forums. You have more experience than me at teaching this stuff. Almost everything I've said is based on only my own learning curve, and that of a few friends. Whereas you've probably seen the learning curve of many students. So ultimately, I yield to your judgement on this matter

Byron,

I read Chase's article. What I wrote before applies here as well. Sure...Vibe is an important factor of how women respond to you. As such, if you're not improving, that's probably something you're lacking. But that mental masturbation beyond figuring out "how do I change it" (which as I said before, is a matter of how you feel, who you are and the person you're interacting with) is pointless. Chase did link a good 8 or so articles on how to improve vibe. I don't have the time to reread and address all of them in detail rn (that would be a lot of work!). But I have read them and attempted to apply them in the past. In my experience, most of the ones which directly address vibe via trying to micromanage vibe itself (e.g. Ricardus's x-factor series) didn't work very well. The ones which did work (e.g. Hector's Genuine Man Series) focused on broader Philosophies and/or taking care of other things which consequently reflect on vibe.